We went up and ran it on Sunday (June 24th). What a fun trip. It was pretty crowded though.

A lot more rock was exposed which made it more fun. The mud holes kinda sucked though. The worst one is the one before Winch Hill #5. That thing is majorly dug out and slimy. We had to wait there for several rigs to be strapped through.

Winch Hill #1 was really easy this time. The big rocks by the tree have slid down the hill a bit making it easier.

Winch Hill #3 was tougher this year. I kept hanging my diff at the top of the chute.

The drinking was insane. We probably passed 50 plus rigs and I'd say 80% or better were "beer in hand." Many of them were drunk beyond reason. Sad.

Very little trash to pick up though.

A lot more rock was exposed which made it more fun. The mud holes kinda sucked though. The worst one is the one before Winch Hill #5. That thing is majorly dug out and slimy. We had to wait there for several rigs to be strapped through.



The drinking was insane. We probably passed 50 plus rigs and I'd say 80% or better were "beer in hand." Many of them were drunk beyond reason. Sad.


Before Winch Hill 5? Last time we were there that area was no problem. I guess we'll add it to our list and maybe we'll have time on the 4th to look at it too.

The news about the drinking really pisses me off but doesn't surprise me at all. I see this as a direct result of the increased LE presence on the Con. I think people know the Fordyce has practically no law enforcement on most of the trail and they can easily get away with it so they're migrating there. I'm going to talk to the Forest Service to see what we can do about this. Someone is going to die because of these dicks.

Brett- I was planning to make this but something has come up that prevents the trip. PM me when you have the next work party scheduled and I'll see about getting a TDO crew up there ;)

Thanks Mark. I will do that.

See you this weekend. Snuffy and I are planning on hooking up with you Friday night.

pics???????????????????

pics???????????????????

The mud hole before Winch Hill #5. Closest I got to making it.

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/9541/99999999475xx5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The mud hole before Winch Hill #5. It swallowed my rear 37" MT/r.

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/269/5555555555194kd4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Winch Hill #3

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/7380/33333333333252hr7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The news about the drinking really pisses me off but doesn't surprise me at all. I see this as a direct result of the increased LE presence on the Con. I think people know the Fordyce has practically no law enforcement on most of the trail and they can easily get away with it so they're migrating there. I'm going to talk to the Forest Service to see what we can do about this. Someone is going to die because of these dicks.

In all honesty I can see the concern here but seriously, if there isn't enough people to patrol this area and make the trail the way you seem to want it, wouldn't the next logical thing for the county to do be shut down the trail all together? The forest service could care less about anything other than what they deal with so I don't see what they can do for you as far as drinking goes. Look at all the homes gone because of fire up in tahoe are we gonna ban smoking on the trail? All the jack ass sober people out there, are we gonna demand a diploma, G.E.D. or specific I.Q. What about noise or loud stereo's is there gonna be a curfew? What about firearms? I'm not saying I'm right or trying to be a punk but if the rubicon is patroled by the forest service and Sheriff and these things are going on still what will it do at Fordyce besides draw unwanted attention? We all want this trail open and I hope its around for a long time to come!

amen brother, responsibility is for the responsible among us. sometimes it feels like a burdon, but better our burdon than the governments.

Here lies the problem with the drinking...

We pulled over to let a large group come down Winch Hill #3. The drunks in the front started ramming into eachother. They came close to smashing into my buddies Jeep. He had to gun it to get out of the way. They are not only hurting themselves.

We followed another group for about an hour. Drunk, they wouldn't pull over and let us go by. They were throwing beer cans, the sober one in their group was running around picking them up. They thought it was funny.

I think a sobriety check point at Eagle Lakes would be a hoot...

First off let me say that I thank you for being concerned enough on post on this thread Widow. Many are not. I agree with you about the loud music and guns. I think the other stuff is going a little far but I see you are just trying to make a point. I would like to be able to wheel into Buck and enjoy my evening without being kept awake all night by a stereo cranked to 10 or worrying about some drunk asshole beating me or one of my friends half to death as happened on Fordyce a few weeks ago.

You think that by calling attention to these types of things we are in danger of getting the trail shut down? It is exactly these things that will close the trail if we don't do something about it right now. Just because you are out in the forest doesn't mean there are no rules. The fact of the matter is that the Forest Service does care about drinking on the trail as well as all their other duties and yes they are spread pretty thin.

You talk about a ban on smoking. Does anyone know there is a ban of sorts in effect right now? Go to the FOF website and click on the Tahoe NF link and you'll see that:

"Smoking is only permitted in an enclosed vehicle, building, developed recreation site or in a 3-foot area cleared of all flammable material."

I for one do not want some drunk jerk smoking and having an illegal campfire and burning down our forest and maybe killing other people or even himself.

I care about this stuff a lot and that is why I and my friends have started the Friends of Fordyce and have spent a lot of time and our own money to get it rolling. We want access to the Fordyce trail to be available to us all forever.

I do agree with you that a jackass is a jackass whether sober or not, spilling oil, littering, or fighting.

"if there isn't enough people to patrol this area and make the trail the way you seem to want it, wouldn't the next logical thing for the county to do be shut down the trail all together?"

I don't really get what you are trying to imply by saying "the way I seem to want it."

I want it safe and clean and open. If that's wrong then so be it. I'll say it again. Just because you're in the forest doesn't mean it's a free for all. Doesn't mean you can't tip a few or listen to some music but it dosen't give you the right to do anything you want.

Black Widow, I'm sure you're concerned and I invite you to come help us keep the trail open on one of our work days. Attend some meetings and get involved in the route designation process. This is the way the trail will remain open for us all and not by ignoring the problems and keeping everything hush hush.

no law enforcement on most of the trail and they can easily get away with it so they're migrating there. I'm going to talk to the Forest Service to see what we can do about this

Agree'd I've seen quads go up a little ways past the split but never any further. We turned in a bunch of douche bags a few years ago in the winter for being majorly drunk bombing down Driveline hill. Thankfully Forestry was at the staging/bathroom area and we let them know the type of vehicle's included.


People need to realize the consiquences of their actions

In all honesty I can see the concern here but seriously, if there isn't enough people to patrol this area and make the trail the way you seem to want it, wouldn't the next logical thing for the county to do be shut down the trail all together?

The county has no say on Fordyce. It is totally unlike the Rubicon in this regard in that there is only 1 agency. The Tahoe NF is it.

That said I have every confidence in the people we work with in the Tahoe. They don't want to shut it down, and in fact have been more then helpful. You should come out on the 4th and take the time to meet these people before making assumptions :)

The forest service could care less about anything other than what they deal with so I don't see what they can do for you as far as drinking goes. I'm not saying I'm right or trying to be a punk but if the rubicon is patroled by the forest service and Sheriff and these things are going on still what will it do at Fordyce besides draw unwanted attention? We all want this trail open and I hope its around for a long time to come!

Looking away isn't going to do any good. Do some research on why Bassi Falls was closed...too much drinking and resource damage, and now its gone forever.

There is a time & a place to get banged up, and behind the wheel of a motor vehicle, whether in downtown San Francisco or on the Fordyce Trail is not it. :)

Well Tinman thanks for the invite. My friends and I always do what we can to keep the trails safe and clean and always lend a hand or parts when needed, Always have always will. The problem that you all seem to have with me (F.O.F.) is that I will have a beer while going down the trail. Do I do it all the time like I can't drive without it? No. Does that mean I'm a trashed drunk driver? No, but unfortunatly others ruin it for everyone. I understand about drunk people being stupid, but just because you have a Beer can in your hand doesn't mean your drunk but it works both ways... just because you don't have a beer can in your hand doesn't mean your not drunk. I know of several people I have meet that claimed to frown on drinking on the trail, I can handle that..Then the same people stopped for lunch during a trail fix proceded to get trashed and then continue on the trail. Hmm. wont drive with a beer in his hand but drives drunk, nice and he thinks I'm the A$$ hole. I'm not starting a whos right whos wrong debate I just think sometimes people are just a bit to quick to judge. Someone here even wished my rig be impounded but if he knew me he'd probably think I was a good guy willing to help others and just ready to wheel. Regaurdless of what you do or what your friends do Please be safe and stay in control! Help keep "ALL" of our trails open.

I will agree with widow on the beer in hand. montana (used to until this last year when a few too many californians infiltrated our legislature up there) wyoming and several other states still allow you drive with a beer in hand same concept .... knwoing your limits and being sensible, responsible.

that said, i hope to make it up on the 4th in the morning.

I also will agree that what once was on rubicon has migrated to fordyce, hopefully the efforts of today are not too little too late. it is a rapidly deteriorating situation up there from years past........................

In all honesty I can see the concern here but seriously, if there isn't enough people to patrol this area and make the trail the way you seem to want it, wouldn't the next logical thing for the county to do be shut down the trail all together?
I suspect you're assuming incorrectly how some folks want the trail, but you have nailed the likely outcome for what will happen if we don't minimize the problem ourselves.

The forest service could care less about anything other than what they deal with so I don't see what they can do for you as far as drinking goes.
The Forest Service deals with regular complaints about drunken idiots, 4-wheelers, or both... and there are proposed expansions to wilderness in the area. Make no mistake, agencies are aware of us, and closurists (not necessarily the agency people, though there are overlaps) are targeting motorized access on Fordyce.

All the jack ass sober people out there, are we gonna demand a diploma, G.E.D. or specific I.Q. What about noise or loud stereo's is there gonna be a curfew? What about firearms?
Wow, that's a whole school of red herrings! :shaking:

We all want this trail open and I hope its around for a long time to come!
Here, I agree with you, but consider that there are folks outside our hobby who are actively trying to shut us down. Recreate responsibly -- get out there and have fun -- but consider how your actions could be used against you.

Randii

Black widow it wasant someone it was me sugesting your rig be impounded. If you are behind the wheel with an open container you are breaking the law.You may be a great help to others on the trail but you are also a threat to the future use of the trail. You can try to justify your actions all you want . These excuses only give fuel to others to help shut things down.If you or any one else are not willing to follow the laws but rather bend them to suit your own needs , then I do not see you as a team player but rather someone that is only interested in him self. I too do not like to conform to government regulations but we do live in a very crowded state . Our form of recreation is on the increase and the sheer volume of people requires some form of conformity. Even those who wish to shut down off hiway vehicle activity must conform to rules and regulations because they too create resource damage. We all need to be the best example that we know how to be. If this means changing some of our habits then so be it. If we do not raise our standards on our own and set the example then who knows what future regulations we will have to deal with. The future of wheeling is in your hands and all of us who use the trails.
Dick Wentworth

knwoing your limits and being sensible, responsible.

The problem with this statement is most people think they know their limits but they really do not. I know that was my problem when I drank and there were many times I was driving way over the limit. In my opinion, drinking alcohol should be done when you are done and settled in for the night.

Well again this was mostly started because of "drunken" idiots not because of having with a beer in your hand. If we want to go back to breaking the law a bigger personal concern of mine would be lack of seatbelt usage. I see all kinds of people breaking this law all over the trail. And there has been a recent death in our area at Red Dog witch was a result of no seatbelt by either the driver and passenger. Click it or ticket at Fordyce? Not so sure.. Either way I'll see everyone one the trail and I'm more than willing to lend a hand, tools, gas, or beer.

Under-compliance to seatbelt use doesn't threaten our access.
Visible drinking while driving and public drunkenness does.

I do hope to see you on the trail -- looks for a beat-up black Amigo witha driver who appears to need training wheels. That'll be me, and I'll be happy to share my beer with you, in camp.

Randii

Widow, you seem like an OK guy and I hope to get to meet you and talk to you in person about this stuff. It's hard to convey exact feelings on the internet. I don't agree with your open container stance but you are entitled to your opinion and you are the one that will have to deal with the consequences when and if they happen. I think the reason I'm so opinionated about this right now is that the last time I was on Fordyce I had to deal with two really drunk guys and it wasn't fun. I agree that a guy driving along drinking a beer isn't necessarily drunk and a guy that is not "beer in hand" is sober.

As far as the seat belt thing is concerned we probably have more conversations with people on the trail about seat belts than drinking. We're not afraid at all to ask people why they don't have their belt on and some of the reasons are pretty amusing. I think we all know of the recent incidences of deaths and injuries from no seat belt usage. Some of them were drunk and some were not. It's amazing how much faith some of these people have in their wheeling ability and the capability of their rig. We will continue to remind people we see to belt up. It's worth all the "Fawk Off"'s to get the one or two that thank us and simply forgot to buckle up.

I will continue to try and pursuade users to put on the best face they can to help us all maintain access to the trails and especially to be fire safe this summer. Scares me to death thinking about the danger from fire this year.

JohnDF what PSI were you running?

i agree about the whole drinking thing i think its retarded and unsafe for everyone who isnt drinking. Smoking up there has a huge potential of causing some shit to go down. Imagine if someone on the con of dyce started a huge forest fire trails would be closed for sure. All smokers should just Dip or chew up there ( i guess im bias workin for Cope)

just my 2 cents

JohnDF what PSI were you running?

8 psi
37x12.50x15 MT/Rs
15x8 Wheels

ANYONE who drives while drinking or drunk is part of the problem and not the solution.......no excuses, no rationalizations and no justifications.