so its fact that toyotas are superior trucks to all others. indestructible 22r/re, strong axles, built well, very durable. but whats the difference between ifs 4cyl yota pickups and same year 4cyl nissans? i hear the axles are very similar and their both jap trucks. why arent ifs nissans up till -95 as popular as 86-95 yotas?

I would say aftermarket support right off the bat. I don't believe nissan eve had a real strong following early on. I can remember way back in the day looking at a nissana hardbody 86 and a 86 xtra cab both were 4x4. I thought the nissan felt stronger but even 20 years ago you couldn't find much for the nissan. but that's just my opinion

Craig

There is a few more aftermarket choices for the Nissan's now then there was even a few years ago. They definately are not as popular as the Toyota's. The transmissions suck in my experience.

Good question, I agree the Nissans just don't have the aftermarket support Toyotas do though. I had a '95 Nissan V6 (can't offer much 4cyl info) outta the box and it was a great truck...very dependable, durable, etc. I now have an '85 Toyota but it's much more of a trail rig. If I built another truck I think I might straight axel a '95ish Nissan...the engine was great and it'd be nice to do something different. If you got the know how to build without aftermarket support...Nissans are good trucks IMHO

On a repair out look, any time you have to completey take the whole front suspension out to change a clutch?(nissan) you dont gain popularity....

Yes pulling the tranny out of my 94 Nissan was a giant pain in the ass. On my Toyota I had the tranny out in like 30 minutes.

ha ha that sucks. i was just asking cuz im trying to look for an ifs pre-tacoma. and was keeping my options open to nissans as well

I love my Nissan. I have just completed an SAS on it and am running 35's. The rear axle on the Xterra is stronger than its Toyota counterpart and features a 4.90 gear ratio, stock. I like yotas quite a bit but decided to build a Nissan.

Good luck in your decision.

IFS toyotas are popular due to the earlier straight axle rigs, pure and simple.

The straight axle rigs gained them the popularity, when they went IFS, people still followed, so did the aftermarket. Nissan didn't have a straight axle (in the u.s., and I'm not counting the d30 720s).

IFS yota to IFS nissan is pretty comparable.

The nissan has a little stronger frame I think, but the pathfinders are known for frame rot if not taken care of.

Yota's can't come close to the strength of the nissan rear.

Engine wise, it's pretty much a wash between the two.

We've never had any tranny trouble as soembody stated above. The biggest thing is with nissan autos, you need to bypass the stock cooler and run an aftermarket one, then 95% of problems are fixed.

We had 4 mid 70's datsuns on the farm with 240-390k miles on them, a hardbody with 70k on them (when it was totalled), mine with 200k on it, dads with 170k on it, and didn't have one leave us on a road, ever.

Yeah, you have to pull the suspension to change the clutch, but the better solution is learning how to drive a clutch, then you don't have to worry about it.:laughing: My clutch looked brand new at 200k miles when I swapped to a bigger engine. The machinist didn't even want to surface the flywheel as it was true and seasoned. That's 200k miles of hauling 2200 lb spray shuttles, pulling the 6000 lb race car and trailer to the races every friday night, and everyday farm use. I've found 90% of people that bitch about clutches in any rig don't know how to drive them. I even downshift instead of braking and don't have problems.

go toyota

another thing to think about, is that the toyota turning radius sucks. The toyota t-case hangs about 6" below the frame (nissan is about 1")

There are many reasons that people followed toyota and not nissan, most are listed above.
Wade through the BS and you'll find that they are comparable vehicles. However, you cannot beat the nissan VG30. The only thing that will destroy that engine is a broken timing belt. and then you may not destroy it.

Stock for stock, i'd take a nissan.

I used to own a Nissan '85 4x4 King Cab. Nissan screwed the pooch by never offering a solid axle. Their front IFS sucked, even for simple and easy gravel road driving. Plus their fender space never matched the Toy's making it even less desirable to the 4x4 crowd back in the '80's.

Nissan's are durable though. My '85 went over 350K with only tranny work and to replace the pistons for piston slap. I have a 92 Pathfinder with over 276K miles and we've only put in a power steering pump, tuned it and a timing belt (and replaced the water pump while changing out the TB).

Al

I always thought the nissan 2wd and 4wd models were only different in that the 4x4 had a body lift and some extra drivetrain parts, but I don't know crap about them.

Evan

the tcase clearance is the one thing i can see as a downfall to the toyotas. i noticed it right off the bat. i would slam that thing all over. i was unaware of the turning radius tho. i also always noticed how low the rear front spring mount hung on the nissan. that was the only bad thing i saw on the nissan that turned me off. i know the toyota ifs is torsion bars, and so is the toyota right? and which motor is the vg30? the 4 or 6?

VG30 is a six cylinder. The other thing to think about is unless you do an SAS there is hardly any choices for lifting a Nissan. Also the t-case has a slip yoke on the rear. The H233B rear end is super tough, but locker choices are limited. Aftermarket choices are limited and expensive, for a Toyota you have many choices and the parts are a lot cheaper.

the tcase clearance is the one thing i can see as a downfall to the toyotas. i noticed it right off the bat. i would slam that thing all over. i was unaware of the turning radius tho. i also always noticed how low the rear front spring mount hung on the nissan. that was the only bad thing i saw on the nissan that turned me off. i know the toyota ifs is torsion bars, and so is the toyota right? and which motor is the vg30? the 4 or 6?

VG30 = 3.0L V6
(<='97 pathy*, HB)
Nissan rear

VG33 = SOHC 3.3L V6
(98-04 Xterra**, Fronty)
Nissan Rear

VQ40 = DOHC 4.0L V6
(05-present Xterra)
Dana Rear

* WD21 pathy discontinued after 95
** Xterra not offered until 2000

that sucks the tcase is slipyoke on a nissan. toyotas slip on the dshaft then? why do they call the previous frontiers hard bodies? and what is the wd21 mean? at this point ill buy nissan or toyota. whichever comes first at the right price. i wouldnt be buying any lift kits or springs to lift it anyways. i would rather go with a bastard leaf pack and shackles with a solid front axle than buying new components and lifting the ifs

VG33 = SOHC 3.3L V6
(98-04 Xterra**, Fronty)
Nissan Rear


Don't forget the VG33E. VG33 w/ supercharger for you Toyota people. :grinpimp:

that sucks the tcase is slipyoke on a nissan. toyotas slip on the dshaft then? why do they call the previous frontiers hard bodies? and what is the wd21 mean? at this point ill buy nissan or toyota. whichever comes first at the right price. i wouldnt be buying any lift kits or springs to lift it anyways. i would rather go with a bastard leaf pack and shackles with a solid front axle than buying new components and lifting the ifs

Calmini makes a SYE for the Nissan t-cases.

D21 specifies 86.5-97 Hardbodys. WD21 is the 87-95 Pathfinders.

VG30 is a six cylinder. The other thing to think about is unless you do an SAS there is hardly any choices for lifting a Nissan. Also the t-case has a slip yoke on the rear. The H233B rear end is super tough, but locker choices are limited. Aftermarket choices are limited and expensive, for a Toyota you have many choices and the parts are a lot cheaper.

4" trailmaster bracket lift
3" ac a-arm lift
3" calmini a-arm lift
3" rancho a-arm lift
3" rough country a-arm lift
3" superlift
4" jack it
2" and 3" body lift
Those are all for the wd21/d21 vehicles.

There's a 5" for new frontiers, 4" 6" and 8" for the titans from various companies.

Several sas kits are available from leaf sprung to coil-over.
I'm sure I missed a few.


There are plenty of choices. The fact is, any IFS lift is mostly retarded for trail use.

Yeah, the toyota rear has more choices, however, it could easily not be strong enough depending on what one is doing, either.

I went with a 9" front and rear just due to pricing on mine.

One thing everybody forgets is that when it comes down to a semi "hardcore" trail rig, pretty much everybody is ripping off the stock axles and suspension anyway. You're just choosing a body and engine.

I get so tired of people praising their "Jeeps", "yotas", "suzukis", etc., when it's all a mix of assorted manufacturer parts anyway.

so its fact that toyotas are superior trucks to all others. indestructible 22r/re, strong axles, built well, very durable.

right............................................. ..............................................

I get so tired of people praising their "Jeeps", "yotas", "suzukis", etc., when it's all a mix of assorted manufacturer parts anyway.
so true. although either one that i get wont be running 60s, 205s, or an american tranny, i just wanted to know the difference. i would rather have a toyota, but when selection always seems to be limited i wanted to know how wrong i could go with nissans. so far the only downfall i see with nissans to toyota is the tcase slipyoke, and parts availibility. the downfall of toyotas to nissan is the opposite of above two, tcase crossmember, and i havent heard the best things of toyotas v6s compared to nissans

plus i dont think many people give nissans a chance and this thread can bring out the nissan gurus to educate everyone

I owned an 84 extended cab, a 94 standard cab and a 2003 Xterra. I liked the Xterra best of the three. I agree the aftermarket is catching up and making more parts for the Nissan's. I shocked a few people on the trails showing them what my Nissan could do. I have owned both Toyota's and Nissan's, I currently own a Toyota. Either one is a good choice, I always wanted to find an old Patrol.

Anyone knows why you don't have Nissan Patrols on the US?

If i'm not mistaken, the reason you never saw Full size japanese imports in the states for so may years was a "gentlemens" agreement with the japs and the big 3. let the big 3 keep the full size and the japs can import the mini's.

A toyota V6 3.0L is a piece of garbage.
A nissan H233B is stronger than a toyota 8"
Nissan front 4x4 suspension is fine if you want a daily driver and a nice ride. If you want big tires.. NFW.

i have owend
87pathfinder (still have it, 345K on the engine and it runs alike a top
95 hardbody (sold to pay for the next nissan)
2000 frontier CC 4x4

not 1 issue with either 3.

Avoid the autos

For what its worth Stock for stock a WD21 will out wheel any jeep any day. (i've proved this to many jee owners0

.....so far the only downfall i see with nissans to toyota is the tcase slipyoke....

Calmini offers a slipyoke eliminator for ~$220. Watchout, tho. It's a PITFA to install, though.

www.purenissan.com

I've been very fond of Datsun/Nissan family for a long time, there are at least 10 trucks I can remember, all 4 cyl from the L20B, 1500cc, SD22, Z24, K24 and TD27 (75, 78, 81, 83, 85, 87, 88, 89, 92, 94) then moved to the Patrols, all diesels L6, 4.2L TD42 (92, 96, 2004 and expecting the 2008) and as DDs and working trucks can't complain (never had an auto).

For sure the little trucks' IFS is kind of a delicate and expensive thing to keep up with. Gladly the Patrols come with both solid axles a H233 front and a H260 rear with a LS and 4.11 gears.

The Patrol is not a fullsize, it's an intermediate betwen the small Pathfinder and the Armada.

I broke fifth gear in half twice in my 84, and the bearings went out in the tranny of my 94. It turns out that the factory fill plug was too low and the bearings weren't getting enough oil. They put a bulletin explaining to overfill it. In the later years they moved the fill plug higher so they would hold more fluid. Taking the tranny's out was serious pain in the ass.

I would have loved to put a solid axle on the front of the Xterra, I think that would have made it a pretty capable rig.

do you know what year they moved the fill plug up? was it on the 4 or 6 cyl tranny? or do they both run the same one

I might be wrong, but I thought the Nissan torsion bars hung much lower than the toy ones...like, under the frame lower. This put them at serious risk for rock damage, and took away ground clearance behind the tires.

But I could be wrong...I know one of the big name 4x4 minis had that...

I know it was four cylinder trannies for sure that had the problem. In 94 they hadn't changed it yet. On the older Nissan's the torsion bars hung down really low, the Hardbody's they moved them up some. Check www.nissanoffroad.net for tons of Nissan information.

I know it was four cylinder trannies for sure that had the problem. In 94 they hadn't changed it yet. On the older Nissan's the torsion bars hung down really low, the Hardbody's they moved them up some. Check www.nissanoffroad.net for tons of Nissan information.

Moved them up like upper control arm up or just up relative to the frame? This is important because if you were to lift the IFS, upper control arm (Toyota) torsion bars don't move, but lower control arm torsion bars move down, even if the factory had moved them up. Think road grader Chevy IFS rig with an 8 inch lift....

There are better sites than Nissan Offroad. Mods over there are Nazis. Reminds me of Titan Talk.

Is Titan Talk the one where they were sucking dude's dick cause people were being assholes to him because "cars are his life" yet he still can't even handle a leaf spring lift?

I liked the nissan i use to have but at that time there was no aftermarket support besides my 85 nissan had 4 different 4cyl motor options I ended up buying my 4runner because i needed the extra space

There are better sites than Nissan Offroad. Mods over there are Nazis. Reminds me of Titan Talk.

Been a long time since I was on there. I ended up building a Toyota, it is a lot cheaper, and a lot more aftermarket support available. Plus the solid axle from the factory is nice.

I use to own an 86 720, and learned to wheel in it. First big mod was a weber that z24. That 4 ploper is stronger that the 22r, fuel injected bolth are about the same, z24 also in Hardbodies too. The displacment is very similer, the only real difference is the additional set of plug on the exhauste side. One down side of the nissian is every thing is a dealer item. My wife has an 02 xterrra same thing goes. Next upgrade was a toy axel in the back with a locker. The only offering for that truck was a air-locker. It was cheaper to put a toy axle in back, and buy a lock-right. The damn pinion even has the same # of splines as toyota, turned down the neck a little so that the dust sheild fit and even ran the stock drive shaft. The locker enabled harder trails so push the truck further, I tore off the torsion bar mounts several times. Limpin home got old, cut that crap off and slip a toy solid axel up front. Slightly off from the transfer case but hell, it ran like a champ. Only got to wheel it for a couple months and it got stolen shiped off to Mexico some where now. I now wheel a 86 toy, dual cases kick ass I know that its now a option with the new nissians but more expensive that toyota stuff. Gears for differentals in nissians are really $$$. Thats two main reasons I'd pick a toyota over a nissian.

One nice thing about the old 720's (pre 86) is that the transfer case is divorced and the front output is centered so you can swap a solid axle with the pumkin on either side.

didnt i hear somone say the output went through the oilpan??? thats weird.

didnt i hear somone say the output went through the oilpan??? thats weird.

No.

I have had a couple nissans and toyotas

1992 SAS'ed pathfinder
1985 Turbo diesel 720
1983 Hilux
1994 4runner

I like the Toyota 3.0 better than the VG30 for sure, Headgaskets are questionable but 200k on it so far without issues (knock on wood)
The Toyota tranny is much better.
The h233b might be slightly stronger than a dana 44 but is there is no options for upgrading the shafts currently, ring and pinion gears are very pricey too.
Most of the Nissan vendors suck
I did like the body styling of my pathfinder better
My turbo diesel 720 also got 30mpg and was fun to tinker with, but its t-case also hung low.


Ever since I sold my old Toyota I have wanted another and ended up selling the 720 for the 4runner, I like the Toyotas much more.
________
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go toyota



YES A BIG 10-4.:smokin:

Anyone knows why you don't have Nissan Patrols on the US?


#1 we do have Patrols in the USA. But not since 1969! They were sold here from 1961-1969, total sales @ 2616, 975 were soft tops.

#2 yes some of us do know why there have not been Patrols here since 1969. Nissan and Toyota struck a deal in the late 70's/early 60's. Toyota got the truck market in the USA with the FJ's and Nissan got the sports car market with the Z cars. Mr. K the man responsible for Datsun/Nissan in the USA was into the sports cars, ie the Z, roadsters, ect. He pushed sales of them and let the Patrol fade away.

You may be suprised how many of those original 2616 Patrols are still around. More than you might think. On top of that Roy Rogers was the Patrol spokesman here in the USA during the 1960's. Nissan even went as far as to give him one for his ad support. Where the RR Patrol is now is anyones guess....

I have confirmed reports of the old G60 Patrols cracking 1 million km's and still going. I myself have an 83 Patrol with 330,000km's on the clock and it is still going strong. The rear LSD diff is like new and so is much of the rest of the truck.

Patrols are common in many parts of the world and have been since the 1950's. In Australia, S.America and the Middle East you may find many more Patrols than Toyotas. Many people consider them to be superior and Patrols have had die hard followers for over 50yrs. The 1980-onward Patrols have some good aftermarket support, especially once you hit the 1988 models, ie Y60's or GQ's. But the old ones have next to zero support and parts are harder to come by every day.

That is where Nissan has always failed and Toyota has always succeeded. Aftermarket support. Plus Toyota has always had one up on Nissan with marketing. But many people will argue all day that the Patrol is a better built truck and to some extent I agree. Their drivetrain is way over built and depending on the engine super tough. FYI, Patrols were manufactured in the same factory Nissan makes it big trucks, ie 2-10ton trucks. They even share some of the same engines/drivetrain. Hence it being overbuilt.

I think both companies make solid 4wds and have for a long time. But if comparing the TLC to Patrol in stock form I feel the Patrol has one up on the TLC. I have owned both but now I only drive Patrols! :D

that sucks the tcase is slipyoke on a nissan. toyotas slip on the dshaft then? why do they call the previous frontiers hard bodies? and what is the wd21 mean? at this point ill buy nissan or toyota. whichever comes first at the right price. i wouldnt be buying any lift kits or springs to lift it anyways. i would rather go with a bastard leaf pack and shackles with a solid front axle than buying new components and lifting the ifs


They named it a hardbody because they used heaver gauge sheet metal and a stronger frame (extra crossmembers and boxing) then Toyota.

And most of all....it was the 80's and the term hardbody was the "IN" thing.

It also explains the extra weight (around 3800lbs), bad economy, and slugish performance.

They named it a hardbody because they used heaver gauge sheet metal and a stronger frame (extra crossmembers and boxing) then Toyota.



Do you have a link on that? I havent climed under my 4-runner to compared the frame to the nissan yet but I can believe the nissan being bigger in some areas. But thicker sheet metal?
________
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Its been a while since I've crawled under a nissan, but I believe the steering box is smaller, as is the idler arm, and I don't think the control arms are as beefy, and the older models had really low mounted torsion bars. I do believe that they are reliable vehicles, but stock to stock, I've always bought toyotas.

After market support is a big deal, as is resale value. 99% of us sell our old parts when we upgrade to the bigger and better, and its sure nice to have a bunch of people a step behind you to sell to. If/when you sell your project, a toyota will bring more buyers with more money than an "off" brand.

If you are gonna get a Nissan get a Y60 or Y61 Patrol gu, gq, mk or a Ford Mavrick <(same truck) imported...Nissan trucks suck and so do pathloosers...
The patrol is a little expensive to import... I am saving to bring the Patrol I have in the Philippines to the States nowi may just sell it there and go to south america and get one and bring it back to the states... IMHO Toyota is better than anything Nissan has on the American market..

toyota all the way!!!