Finaly have time to get started on the rear of the scout. For those of you that don't know what I had to start with here is a pic :barf: These shots are 108'' WB with chevy 63's

The plan now is 4 link with 18'' fox air shocks. The lower links are 2'' 1/4 wall square stock and the uppers will be 1 1/4 .250 DOM. The heims will be 1 x 1 1/4 for the lowers and 3/4 x 7/8 for the uppers. The WB will now be 106'' with 40 x 13.5 Irok's because they are 5lbs lighter each than the SX's I have now :)

These are after I took 58'' of frame out :grinpimp:

More...
Not sure what to do about the tank I just know that one will not work.

I don't see no scout.

:smokin:...How long are your lower links going to be? 1/4" wall may be a little light for the lowers IMHO but that will depend on your driving style and terrain.

:smokin:...How long are your lower links going to be? 1/4" wall may be a little light for the lowers IMHO but that will depend on your driving style and terrain.

cough cough....760x.... cough cough

actually as light as that rig is, and if he is still managing to keep a 44 alive, I would imagine 1/4" would be quite enough.

:smokin:...How long are your lower links going to be? 1/4" wall may be a little light for the lowers IMHO but that will depend on your driving style and terrain.


X2. Fill them with solid stock and you'll be ok.



Cool trail BTW. Looks like something from around here.

Lowers will be 40'' eye to eye. I have two choices for the lowers first choice is 2 1/2 .500 wall DOM @ $27.00 a foot or 2'' .250 wall square for $12.00 a foot. Now the cost is not as much of a concern as the strength. That is why I think I am going square, because if I bend them I'll drive a T down the center :D

Any thoughts??

i ran 2" 1/4 square lowers on my last rig, bowed one but came down from airborn onto it. they were just under 40" long. my scout was heavy too.

I'm thinking they will last. I don't have a heavy rig, but I have been known to get it airborn a time or two :flipoff2:

Feel free to chime in with what you guys have bent :smokin:

Come on up to White City Steel to look for some link material.

Lots of choices, I'd pick the joints I wanted to use and find out the options for threaded adapters, then see what tube they have in stock.

What are you doing for brackets?

Feel free to chime in with what you guys have bent :smokin:

1-3/4" x.250 wall dom with 1-1/8" solid cold rolled inside. About 44" long and they bend badly. Rig weighs about 3500 lbs...............I'm not nice to it.

Come on up to White City Steel to look for some link material.

Lots of choices, I'd pick the joints I wanted to use and find out the options for threaded adapters, then see what tube they have in stock.

What are you doing for brackets?

Thanks I'll see if they can get me a better price.I have the joints ordered as well as the weld-in bungs. I need 1 1/2'' ID for them to slide right in. I'll make all the brackets and tabs myself.

cool scout, i gotta come over and wheel with ya...:D

cool scout, i gotta come over and wheel with ya...:D

:beer:

Lowers will be 40'' eye to eye. I have two choices for the lowers first choice is 2 1/2 .500 wall DOM @ $27.00 a foot or 2'' .250 wall square for $12.00 a foot. Now the cost is not as much of a concern as the strength. That is why I think I am going square, because if I bend them I'll drive a T down the center :D

Any thoughts??


HOLY CRAP MAN!! 2.5 X.25 DOM is $11.50 a foot here! Is that the only place you can get it?

x2 on the sweet terrain.

HOLY CRAP MAN!! 2.5 X.25 DOM is $11.50 a foot here! Is that the only place you can get it?

x2 on the sweet terrain.
Apples ≠ oranges
Well, there is twice the amount of steel in a piece of 2.5 x 0.500 wall DOM as there is 2.5 x 0.250 wall DOM, so it doesn't surprise me at all that his quote price is a little more than twice the price that you quoted.

Last buggy had 1.5" .250 lowers approx 42" long. One had a very slight bow to it, the other was fine. When I link up my Scout, it is using the same stuff since I have it left over. I don't care if my links bend, it's when the rod-ends break that causes all the trouble.

Apples ≠ oranges
Well, there is twice the amount of steel in a piece of 2.5 x 0.500 wall DOM as there is 2.5 x 0.250 wall DOM, so it doesn't surprise me at all that his quote price is a little more than twice the price that you quoted.

OIC now, I thought he was still talking about .25 inch wall and missed that the "2" was missing.

But there is less than twice the material in the .5 than the .25 wall.
Must be a k-state engineer.
It's 1.85 times the materal of the .25 wall. :flipoff2:

...Must be a k-state engineer.
It's 1.85 times the materal of the .25 wall. :flipoff2:

Absolutely NOT!!

...but I'm also not a super-anal fucktard engineer either. :laughing::flipoff2:

Absolutely NOT!!

...but I'm also not a super-anal fucktard engineer either. :laughing::flipoff2:

Is there another kind?

More...
Not sure what to do about the tank I just know that one will not work.
I have to ask, is the whole rear section butt-welded together or is it just the little part down low?

:smokin:...How long are your lower links going to be? 1/4" wall may be a little light for the lowers IMHO but that will depend on your driving style and terrain.
He's using square stock, should be fine for what he's got.

HOLY CRAP MAN!! 2.5 X.25 DOM is $11.50 a foot here! Is that the only place you can get it?
The 2.25" x .375" wall DOM I use for the 4-link kits is about $15/ft. Even the 1.75 x .281 uppers I used is about that :shaking:

I have to ask, is the whole rear section butt-welded together or is it just the little part down low?


He's using square stock, should be fine for what he's got.


The 2.25" x .375" wall DOM I use for the 4-link kits is about $15/ft. Even the 1.75 x .281 uppers I used is about that :shaking:

Just the super tight bend (where the tail lights will be) was sleaved then welded.

I hope the square links hold :grinpimp:

Is there another kind?

LOL :smokin:

I gotta admit, the before pics look ghastly.


There is a fuel tank thread in the Jeep forum.

I hope the square links hold :grinpimp:
I'd be surprised if they don't. Square acts very differently compared to tube.

I was told that 2'' .250 wall square is twice as strong as 2'' .250 DOM :confused:

I gotta admit, the before pics look ghastly.


There is a fuel tank thread in the Jeep forum.

I hated the look as soon as I pulled it out of the shop.

I was told that 2'' .250 wall square is twice as strong as 2'' .250 DOM :confused:
I wouldn't doubt it.

I was told that 2'' .250 wall square is twice as strong as 2'' .250 DOM :confused:

I was told that 2'' .250 wall square is twice as strong as 2'' .250 DOM :confused:

Well part of the story is that 2" 1/4 wall tubing is stronger than 2" 1/4 wall DOM.

2" 1/4 wall Square. Moment of Inertia = .745 in^^4 Yield Strength = 40ksi
2" 1/4 wall Round DOM Moment of Inertia = .536 in^^4 Yield Strength = 70 ksi

So just talking about deflection. Amount that a 40" long section will deflect with a point load applied to the middle with 1000 lb applied

2" 1/4 wall Square. .062 inches
2" 1/4 wall Round DOM .085 inches

Yes the Square tube is stronger than the round tube.

Now about the yield strength of the material. Just because it is stronger does not mean that it will not deflect any differently. It means that it can be deflected farther before it will permanently bend.

So the 40" Box tubing can support 2980lbs theoretically at .184" deflection before permanently being deformed.

The 40" Round tubing can support 3752lbs theoretically at .386" deflection before permanently being deformed.

The flat section of the box tubing is easier dented than the round tubing. Of course if you stand the square tubing so that the rounded section is pointing down you drastically increase the strength of the tubing. I think that when Snoopy used the larger piece of tubing to create a skid for the rectangular tubing that solved that problem.

Flame On. And all of this coming from a Leaf Spring guy.

Where the hell are you going to put your kid's backseat?
Remember you do have a wife and kid to tote around:flipoff2:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/scout254/stuff/100_0691.jpg

Looks like they get to sit on top of the gas tank :eek:

Looks like they get to sit on top of the gas tank :eek:

Yup just like in my 99 eclipse and in my 00 Audi A4 :shaking: Or just about any other ''new'' car, besides they never ride with me when I'm in the nasty trails...

The flat section of the box tubing is easier dented than the round tubing. Of course if you stand the square tubing so that the rounded section is pointing down you drastically increase the strength of the tubing. I think that when Snoopy used the larger piece of tubing to create a skid for the rectangular tubing that solved that problem.

Flame On. And all of this coming from a Leaf Spring guy.

Most of your math sounds fine to me.

One thing I've heard different, however, is the part about turning the square tube on it's side so the rounded corner is down.

It should slide a little easier under some situations, and it sorta increases the modulus, though I don't know the math for that one.

I have heard from far more knowledgeable folks than me that it's stronger sittin' flat to the ground (or oriented such that the stress tries to bend it along a flat edge).

BGreen's cheapo buggy is where you'll find some arguments from Goat n' Pig n' others.

Simple sample is if you had a hunk of 2x2x.120 square tube, sitting flat.

You'd THINK that plating both sides with 1/8" (making it 2x2 with .250x.120x.250x.120) would be the way to go, but reality is that plating the bottom with a piece of 1/4" (maybe even just a single 1/8" piece) will add significantly more strength.

If you tried to bend the square tube into a U-shape, the sides are going to try to keep it from doing that, but what helps the most is that you're trying to STRETCH the bottom "chord" of the square tube. The sides can buckle and deform, but the bottom is being stretched lengthwise and steel is very strong in this manner.

Adding to the bottom thickness greatly adds to the difficulty in stretching it.

Why do you think "I" beams are used and not square tube in construction? Stronger / lighter / cheaper. What's not to like?

(for our applications, I think I-beam has issues with torsional stress that makes square a better choice).

It's a lot like the theory behind an under-axle truss, and how for the same relative strength an under-axle truss is lighter than an over-axle.

What shapes are frame rails?

Thanks for all the input guys! I will post some pics today of the progress :grinpimp:

I got alot done today but forgot to take pix so I snap some in the AM :grinpimp: OH it is :flipoff2:

Got these in the mail about 5 days ago, but I'm in the middle of moving so I have no time.

1 1/4 heims in 2x2x.250 wall for lowers
7/8 heims 1 1/2x.250 wall DOM for uppers

Got the links put together today and started in on the axle truss 2x6x.250 :D
The plasma made quick work of the truss, but still have alot of work left on it.

looks great

I can't figure out how you keep that D44 together in the back with all the crazy things you do. Where are you moving? We're in Redding now.

that is just how a scout build should be sparse and utilitarian and ugly as fawk..:D

I can't figure out how you keep that D44 together in the back with all the crazy things you do. Where are you moving? We're in Redding now.


Klamathfalls to attend OIT for three years, then we will move to Redding :smokin:

Klamathfalls to attend OIT for three years, then we will move to Redding :smokin:

so what does that mean for me headin up to shasta next couple of years? and you hittin up the high lakes?? come on man! wheres the love:flipoff2:

Call me cuz I'll be down all the time! My scout is going to stay at the shop in Dunsmuir so I'm always down to wheel :smokin:

Ah redding. I used to camp of HWY37 at HellsGate. It was always a good time.

Klamathfalls to attend OIT for three years, then we will move to Redding :smokin:

Good for you. I did my B.S. in Civil Engineering there - Excellent school. Glad to hear it. :beer: :bounce:

It's been to long since an update!!!

I had to move and then never got around to posting these pix. The 4 link has been done for a few months and works great sofar. I has been so long IDK the exact numbers anymore as far as the links go BUT here are pix anyhow :smokin:

I'll try to get some current pix up when I get back. All the body work is done now and so is the toyota gas tank I mounted in place of the chevy junk. Well in the 3,400lb range now.........not bad for a Scout lol

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=328537&stc=1&d=1191304646

But how does it wheel?

Are those seat belts for limit straps?

The rear drives and wheels great, but the front is way to stiff now so I hope to have it linked in the next few weeks.

Ya I had seat belts in there at first....they streach way to much :smokin:

Damn, I cant believe that used to be a Scout:flipoff2:

I remember the good ol days.....

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c101/scout254/stuff/PA210053.jpg

That makes me want to build another one just to keep it looking that sexy :D