Do these guys really do anything, or do they just take people's money?

I went there to find info on ElDO's route designation project, and if they are doing anything about it, and found NOTHING. The info on ELDO's route des project was WAY out of date. With the 'Con and many other trails and campsites in ELDO, you would think they would be doing something right?

I know they got a lot of stuff to do with ALL the National Forests(I would guess) But the Draft comes out July 20th!

Does anyone have any info on the BRC? It it worth me sending cash to them?

From what I am hearing from other people, Blue Ribbon Blows.

BRC is one of the biggest supporters of OHV users.
OHV uses are considered anyone that goes off highway with a motorized vehicle, 4X4, Quad, Dirt bike.

Del Albright is supported by BRC, and does a lot of work for them, that includes traveling around to fight for trails.

United is one of the other organizations, but deals with just 4X4's.

Both have good people working for them fighting for access to our lands and trails. So much is done in the background that the public never see's.
Many lawsuits are filed, and then dropped, because we, the users will get what we need.

Donate to one or both of these organizations.
Support your local club, and state organization.

We need to get everyone to join what they can afford.
If you can only afford your local club, and they are part of Cal4Wheel, or your state association, then much better.
Then look at BRC and United, and I do not care which one of these two you join, or join both. BRC is $20.00, and United is $30.00
Cal4Wheel is $45.00

I know BRC does not have a forum to post info on, but use some of the other forums out there that have land use info.

United's Forum: http://www.ufwda.org/smf/index.php
This Forum
Your local state association's forum.

Todd
United Four Wheel Drive Association
Interim Director of Environmental Affairs

Do these guys really do anything, or do they just take people's money?

I went there to find info on ElDO's route designation project, and if they are doing anything about it, and found NOTHING. The info on ELDO's route des project was WAY out of date. With the 'Con and many other trails and campsites in ELDO, you would think they would be doing something right?

I know they got a lot of stuff to do with ALL the National Forests(I would guess) But the Draft comes out July 20th!

Does anyone have any info on the BRC? It it worth me sending cash to them?

From what I am hearing from other people, Blue Ribbon Blows.

Some say they are worth it and others say it's not.

A quick search of this forum will bring up stuff from both sides.

look at the trails around you, what have you heard that they have accomplished? They are not active in my community, so why send them my money? I think it's a good idea, but look at what the nfs is doing and whos trying to battle against them? I don't see any of these guys trying to do anything, what I see is individuals trying to do something about these problems.

In case you were wondering, and I knew you were. here is the other view.

http://www.sierraconservation.org/

Check this on how to be involved in Route Dez

http://www.sierraconservation.org/OHV%20Route%20Designation%20Primer%20for%20Preserv ationists.html

"When it comes to outdoor recreation, backpackers, hikers and children must compete with jeeps and dirt bikes. With each additional machine, the experience for non-motorized users is degraded just that much more."

http://www.sierraconservation.org/conflictreports/User%20conflict%20tracking%20info.html

:shaking:

thanks for the 411 cruzilla. This is all a big learning process for many of us and a few of us are trying to spread the word about what is going on for those interenet challenged who just enjoy the outdoors and don't spend much time behind a computer.

Request Notice of and Attend the Public Meetings!!!

It is imperative that the Forest Service recognize that OHV Route Designation is an important issue to the non-OHV publics. The only way they can know this is if we make it unmistakably clear through letters, emails, and attending public meetings. Such meetings are historically dominated by the OHV folks. The Forest Service both wants and needs our presence at these meetings to help hold the line against the demands by the Blue Ribbon Coalition and its members for “no net loss of trails.” Get your friends together and make an appearance for the sake of the forest and yourselves. Identify yourself as a hiker, a birder, an equestrian, a mycologist or as just a traditional quiet forest recreationists. Don’t be afraid to make your own demands for protection of resources and quiet recreation.

That quoted from their site.

That's where they can make a showing. We need to spread the word to the users here. I've been amazed at how many people are completely unaware of what is going on in the community. I made fliers to hand out to businesses and a lot of people are all for keeping the trails open. These people have got a plan, and we need one as well. I hope I hear more and learn more about the BRC and I may start standing behind them. The important issue is to get the word out.

Ok the last chance for involvment in the eldorado route designation is coming up. next tuesday is the phone meeting, they will advise when and where the public meeting will be. those meetings will be at the end of this month. if you are not at one of those meetings you will not know how to submit a comment on the draft EIS, and that is the only way we will be able to get some of our roads back.
ENF sent this out below today


Hi Everyone,

I wanted to let you know that our next telephone briefing on the Route Designation Project will be Tuesday, July 10, at 12:00 pm. To access the briefing follow the instructions below:

Dial: 1-866-720-3489, then passcode: 9683102, then press #.

During the call, we will discuss the impending release of the Draft Environmental Impact Statement, the public meeting schedule, and the remaining timeline for the project. You will also have the opportunity to ask questions.

Please inform others about this opportunity. If you have any questions or comments please reply to this message.

Thanks for your interest,
Jason Nedlo

Request Notice of and Attend the Public Meetings!!!

It is imperative that the Forest Service recognize that OHV Route Designation is an important issue to the non-OHV publics. The only way they can know this is if we make it unmistakably clear through letters, emails, and attending public meetings. Such meetings are historically dominated by the OHV folks. The Forest Service both wants and needs our presence at these meetings to help hold the line against the demands by the Blue Ribbon Coalition and its members for “no net loss of trails.” Get your friends together and make an appearance for the sake of the forest and yourselves. Identify yourself as a hiker, a birder, an equestrian, a mycologist or as just a traditional quiet forest recreationists. Don’t be afraid to make your own demands for protection of resources and quiet recreation.

That quoted from their site.

That's where they can make a showing. We need to spread the word to the users here. I've been amazed at how many people are completely unaware of what is going on in the community. I made fliers to hand out to businesses and a lot of people are all for keeping the trails open. These people have got a plan, and we need one as well. I hope I hear more and learn more about the BRC and I may start standing behind them. The important issue is to get the word out.

thanks for the 411 cruzilla. This is all a big learning process for many of us and a few of us are trying to spread the word about what is going on for those interenet challenged who just enjoy the outdoors and don't spend much time behind a computer.

I might suggest that people bookmark: http://www.muirnet.net

I post a lot of stuff about what is happening.

More also is posted at the Cal4Wheel forums -- http://www.ingear4x4.com/phpBB2/index.php

I am very much aware of Karen and company and their mis-information campaign.

You might want to see what her cohort (Paul McFarland) is doing in the Inyo Mtns. --- http://www.friendsoftheinyo.org/

or, the California Wilderness Coalition --- http://www.calwild.org/

Do these guys really do anything, or do they just take people's money?

Blue Ribbon Coalition is a great group that is able to accomplish a lot with the limited resources they have available. They may not have up to the day information on your area of concern, but keep in mind that EVERY Forest Unit is going through the Route Des process now so there's a lot to keep track of.

If BRC had the money they needed, they'd be able to give every single issue and area the attention it deserves. Until then, they have to pick and choose their battles.

Help them cover more ground by joining and/or donating today.

http://www.sharetrails.org/

If every 4x4, atv, motorcycle, and snowmobile user in the country joined BRC, the anti-access greens wouldn't stand a chance. Until that happens, our land access defenders have to work with the limited money available.

Blue Ribbon Coalition is a great group that is able to accomplish a lot with the limited resources they have available. They may not have up to the day information on your area of concern, but keep in mind that EVERY Forest Unit is going through the Route Des process now so there's a lot to keep track of.




Here's the problem I got:

I was at WE Rock in Donner this last weekend passing out Route Designation flyers for ELDO. At least 5 times people refused the flyer saying something along the lines of, "Oh, I donate to Blue Ribbon..I don't need one"

What I get from that, is people just send cash in and think that's enough. They think that just by sending cash in, someone else is going to take care of the problem.

Do not get me wrong, I know many of these groups are working for us, but we as INDVIDUALS need to do as much as possible too. 1 person from Blue Ribbon at a forest service meeting does not have that much impact. We need a MUCH BIGGER VOICE, especially in responding to the final drafts in the Route Dez project.

The apathy in the 4x4 community in saving our trails is huge. The greenies are WAY more involved, motivated and organized than we are. I think Blue ribbon needs to get a PR campagin going to generate interest in saving our trails....

If we do not do something NOW to get more people involved, we may as well sell all our rigs.

In case you were wondering, and I knew you were. here is the other view.

http://www.sierraconservation.org/

WOW,WOW,WOW!!!!
Unbelievable:mad3:

I will never understand why some people feel they have the right to tell others how to enjoy PUBLIC land.
That is the most selfish thing that I have ever witnessed, and did I mention SELFISH!!

Total BS.......
I can think of about 30 trails off the top of my head (just in the EDF) that are HIKING ONLY(these are actual foot trails) let alone that you can hike anywhere off the trails.

Its not hard people, if you don’t like to hear engines or see tire tracks, or (this is the best) you afraid of getting RUN OVER:shaking:.........................GO TO ONE OF THE OTHER THOUSANDS OF ACRES IN THE PUBLIC FOREST.

ITS EVERYONES FOREST, DIDNT YOUR MOMMA TEACH YOU..... LEARN TO SHARE

What I get from that, is people just send cash in and think that's enough. They think that just by sending cash in, someone else is going to take care of the problem.

Do not get me wrong, I know many of these groups are working for us, but we as INDVIDUALS need to do as much as possible too. 1 person from Blue Ribbon at a forest service meeting does not have that much impact. We need a MUCH BIGGER VOICE, especially in responding to the final drafts in the Route Dez project.

The apathy in the 4x4 community in saving our trails is huge. The greenies are WAY more involved, motivated and organized than we are. I think Blue ribbon needs to get a PR campagin going to generate interest in saving our trails....

If we do not do something NOW to get more people involved, we may as well sell all our rigs.

Yes, apathy is a problem. But telling people not to join BRC is not the answer. At least if someone joins BRC or their state land use group, they will get exposed to some information through newsletters, email alerts, etc. While we encourage everyone to be personally involved, not everyone is. But if everyone could donate $30/year, then we wouldn't have to worry about them being involved. Believe me, it's a model that can work. It's exactly what the anti-ohv groups do.

Here's the problem I got:

I was at WE Rock in Donner this last weekend passing out Route Designation flyers for ELDO. At least 5 times people refused the flyer saying something along the lines of, "Oh, I donate to Blue Ribbon..I don't need one"


I agree 100%....but remember too that the eco-nazi's have the same thing going....all the "armchair environmentalists" out there who would rather just send their $100 to the Sierra Club than actually head up to the mountains to help Friends of the Rubicon (or any other pro-environmental and pro-sharing) organization on a Work Weekend cleanup.

Since the Blue Ribbon Coalition is just about our only voice that I see quoted in land use news stories, I will continue to support them as best I can. Thank god we also now have ORBA and SAN getting actively involved!

I've been in this fight for 30 years and it isn't getting any easier. First off, most 4x4 owners are cheap sob's. Instead of working on the Fee Demo system, a lot of SW Colorado wheelers joined forces with the Sierra Club to avoid a $15 annual fee (85% stayed on the ground instead of going into a black hole called DC). The "I've got mine, screw you" mentality of a lot of wheelers gives plenty of ammunition to the eco-freaks and is a great motivation for fund raising letters for conservation groups.

When is the last time you saw a rep from BRC on Fox News or GMA? It's about time that BRC spends the bucks for a high powered PR firm to make a case for motorized recreation on public lands. If every single person logged into P4X4 sent $50.00 to BRC to make the case on a national scale, then maybe there would be something accomplished.

check this one out

http://www.activistcash.com/

I just spent some time reading about the Sierra Club on that site Scott. There is some stuff in there that is quite interesting and I'm sure the general public let alone their membership is unaware of.
How many times do we see ads or flyers written quoting something that someone did 20 years ago just to sway opinion? Imagine if this was made public by way of billboards.

"There's nothing wrong with being a terrorist, as long as you win. Then you write history." These chilling words may sound like an Al Qaeda credo, but they aren't. They are the words of Sierra Club board member Paul Watson.


Club founder David Brower, he advocated a form of eugenics: “Childbearing [should be] a punishable crime against society, unless the parents hold a government license... All potential parents [should be] required to use contraceptive chemicals, the government issuing antidotes to citizens chosen for childbearing.”


Just my .02

check this one out

http://www.activistcash.com/

NICE find Scott!!!! I'm be sending that to a few people:D:D

Anybody have the E-mail list to the Sierra Club members

Very interesting read Scott!
I agree, the SC members should read that, maybe they will stop donating so blindly.

Wow, PETA is even more scary, and the SC has quite a few ties to them and other extremist groups... :eek:

I even am to the point of being selective about which movies I go see in the theater. The more I look, the more I see I need to not go anymore. Hollywood is so eco it is scary. Think they don't drive public opinion? Think again.

I even am to the point of being selective about which movies I go see in the theater. The more I look, the more I see I need to not go anymore. Hollywood is so eco it is scary. Think they don't drive public opinion? Think again.

I won't see movies with BIG mouth ECO freek actors in them wether there great movies or not. JUST can't do it honey I know you want to see it but not with my money. :D

I won't see movies with BIG mouth ECO freek actors in them wether there great movies or not. JUST can't do it honey I know you want to see it but not with my money. :D

he did go see Broke Back Mountain though.:flipoff2:

I'll make this short and sweet as I know there is some confusion over which clubs/groups to join, like the BlueRibbon Coalition (BRC).

Let me just put it out there, up front, if it were not for the BRC there would be no Del building, developing and leading the Friends of the Rubicon (FOTR) for the last seven (7) years. IT's that simple. They funded me and supported me enough to build FOTR and keep the icon of four-wheeling alive and well today. And FOTR is the biggest and strongest single-trial coalition ever built. IT's because of BRC allowing me and wanting me to build this effort.

No other club or groups was in a position to support FOTR the way BRC has and still does today.

I probably have not said this often enough -- but it IS BRC that gave us the opportunity to show the world how to manage a trail - the Rubicon Trail. That should be enough alone for any four-wheeler, dirt biker or ATV person to join BRC.

And that doesn't even count the best web site out there for route designation. Go to www.sharetrails.org and click on public lands. And that doesn't count the lawsuits and efforts BRC funds ALL OVER THE COUNTRY for our trails. And how BRC got watercraft (jet skies) back on Lake Powell and Lake Mead. ANd how BRC alone is keeping snowmobiling alive in Yellowstone NAtional Park. etc.

It is a dangerous and mostly foolish thing to quack about something when you don't read up on what is happening and who is doing what to whom. So for you new folks doing your homework, studying and reading posts like this, I commend you. Remember that some folks are just quacking. ANd quacking like a duck ain't the same thing as flying like a duck.

I am a proud Life Member of BRC and contractor for them. I believe in what they do and what they allow/want me to do. I still tell folks the best way to help me do what I do is to join BRC. And if anyone would like to compare credentials with me and BRC, just speak up and sound off (without the quacking). :)

Del

Alright Del, this is gonna be long so bear with me brother...

First, You need to know that I really respect you and everything you have done to fight for our trails. Not many people, if any, have done the work you have done. We need a lot more people like you. I do not need to "see your credentials" I believe in you.

I think I need to explain myself a little more and show what let to me starting this thread. I do not really think "Blue Ribbon Blows", I inserted that line becuase, esp. on Pirate, in order to get a response by someone, I knew I would have to tick someone off a little and QUACK.

I have been involved in the Route Designation project in ELDO for awhile, Rick (aka WLDWUN) from my club has even been more active. This project hits us particularly hard becuase the area we have camped in for 15+ years has been impacted horribly. Our normal campsites have been wiped off the map.

For the past few months Rick and I have been working our butts off. (And yes, I am gonna toot my little horn here)

Just SOME of what we have done:

1. When ELDO had Field Trips for the public to look at areas that would be effected by route des last Sept and Oct, MOST OF THEM WERE CANCELLED DUE TO LACK OF INVOLVEMENT. Many times Rick was the only one to sign up for the trips, so Scardina cancelled them. We had Scardinia scedule a another field trip that was not on the books and with the help of the PBB, drew about 45 people, most of whom I had never met. Some FOTR guys even showed up to that one even though it was not on the 'Con....

2. Rick has been one EVERY phone meeting, and many of the public meetings. He even got Scardinia to ADD campsites to certain Alternatives. He has worked very closely with the FS

3. We put together a flyer on Route Designation, and with the help of MANY others (Randii, BEBE, Bear just to name a few, sorry if i missed anyone) have been getting those things out to as many people as possible. We passed them on on memorial day, at fairs, at 4x4 shops, mass e-mailed them out to clubs, indiviuals and businesses, even at WE Rock in Donner

4. We talked the FS into having a meeting in the Bay Area, and from the looks of the thread we posted here on Pirate, we should have a HUGE response (God-willing)

5. With the help of Randii, Cruzilla, BEBE and a few more people I cannot think of at the moment, we have a route des hand-out going into the hand-out bags on the Jeepers and Jeep Jambos. I think we are even gonna try to get the maps into the office in Georgetown.

OK, with all that said, keep with me here....

I see a great group of awesome people from this board working thier butts off. Lance adding that announcement and creating that Ad is just awesome. Randii and Scott are amazing and will forget more about Land-use than I will ever know... I love the passion BEBE and Rick have..

So one day I asked myself, what are the Organizations doing? Where is our leadership? Do we have any?

I knew what FOTR were doing, but who is fighting for the REST of the forest? FOTR has enough work to do with just the 'Con. Made a few calls.....called you in fact, back around the time we had the Silverfork field trip. (Still waiting on the call back :D) CA4WD were the only ones to return a call.

Rick called BRC to ask them what they were doing about route dez in ELDO. You would have to ask him the EXACT details, but the guy on the phone actually pulled a little attitude with Rick....basically he would not even talk to Rick unless Rick sent BRC some $$ (which he did)

I just clicked the link you gave me. "The best website out there for route designation..." there is nothing about Alternative D being picked in ELDO....no alerts on it, nothin...

In fact, thier website says NOTHING about Route Designation in ELDO. There was some info that was WAY OTTA date. Since ELDO is the first forest to go through this (isn't it?) you would think they would be REALLY involved, right?


I am not picking a fight, We are all on the same side, the whole reason I started this thread was to find out:

WHAT IS BRC DOING FOR US IN ELDO...???

not just on the 'Con but for the rest of the forest where we are losing 2,000 something miles?

I know they got the whole USA to cover, but this is the first forest to go thru Route Dez...It would be great for them to post somethin up or do something to spread the word about ELDO. The way route designation is set up with the 45 day public comment period, INDIVIUAL responses are needed to keep trails open. 1 group or organization has as much voice as any 1 person. We need MASS RESPONSES, therefore it is important we get the word out to as many people as possible.....NOW

I am sorry for all this, I do not want to piss anyone off. I am not "attacking" anyone. You know more about all this land-use stuff than I do. If fact, the only BRC voice I have ever heard, is YOU. Are you the only voice they have in CA? If so, that is WAY too much work for one man to handle.

It just seems that there is a small core group here that is working their butts off and the rest of the public has no idea what is going on in thier forests. If you read post #13 in this thread, (please do) you will see what really set me off at WE Rock...

What has/is BRC doing to help us save these areas?

I think the frustration is coming from a lack of noticeable involvement.

I know that BRC, Cal4, CORVA, and United have my back... that's enough for me, really. I know that we (and they -- I am we? I am they through membership?!) are ready to engage legally as necessary when the time comes, something that I lack the cash to do personally.

In return, I know that *I* work hard to stay abreast of the issues locally, better than they can do nationally. I'm on of the point men for Route Dez on this Forest, and I need to keep feeding info to my state and national groups so that I can take advantage of their strengths (litigation and broader base for letter writing).

I guess what I'm suggesting is that our national organizations can't engage everywhere, and need the local folks to take the lead. From where I stand, this is happening quite well for the Eldorado Forest, in part due to the foundation that these agencies have helped put in place (all four groups listed up top donated to the RTF Leadership Conference last fall that Del taught).

I think we're doing pretty well, but the proof will be:
1.) the responses to the Forest on their plan
2.) legal action after the fact (will bet money that CBD, CSNC, and CWC will revive their lawsuit, regardless of the alternative chosen)

Randii

Del,
First as Kurt stated, we respect and admire the work you have done. but when you state they have "the best web site out there for route designation". someone better look into that, their information is outdated and WRONG, I personaly have submitted multiple times the correct information as to the DEIS release date, team leader change etc. nothing have been updated since last year. I am not trying to knock the BRC but shouldnt they be the ones that are the leader in getting information and giving to their members?
I hear people say "they do a lot behind the scene", well if we dont know what they are doing, how are we suppose to know they are doing anything at all? How are they getting people involved? isnt that what we need at this time?
The BRC came down on me hard for not being a member last month, this is after I stated all the work Kurt and I have done as individuals. Ok I got over that and joined, now we need to know what they want of their members.
The DEIS is out, what do they want?

BTT
I also am curious....why was the lawsuit that started this not appealed by BRC, Cal4 or another organization on our behalf?

BTT
I also am curious....why was the lawsuit that started this not appealed by BRC, Cal4 or another organization on our behalf?

that's a great question, and I don't know if its too late for that (probably is). But these groups need our memberships to wage this battle. Agreed that individual participation is key in the "town hall" meetings with the FS, and the more voices the better. But, as individuals, we don't come close to having the funding to fight the greenies in the courts- but if we all give money to our access groups--WARCHEST!!!

Let me throw a little bit out here on this issue.
I am a member of BRC + donate to the legal fund.
United (www.ufwda.org) Interim Director of Environmental Affairs (BOD Position)
Cal4Wheel Member
Hanford Trail Busters (Secretary), and Rubicon 4WDA VP.
Graduate of Del's VLLS workshop #2, Nov 2006.

Between all of them, I donate money and time to help keep trails open, and now as the UFWDA DOEA, I give up a lot of time researching trail issues, and use issues. This includes subscribing to all the forest service email lists that I can to be able to post this info for you all on the United if you join the forums. We have to keep track of what the forest service and BLM are attempting to do with OUR lands.

I know I probably only spend about a 1/4 of the time on land use/access as compared to Del. He is the biggest name in our sport, and BRC has allowed him the opportunity to remain at that pinacle for years.
It takes more then just me or Del writting letters to the forest service, BLM or others to keep trails open. The reason for this, is they know Del, and know that he represents a group of people. Just like if a group (Cal4Wheel, BRC or United) sends a letter to the forest supervisor, it carries less weight then if it comes from a group of individuals. So we need each and everyone of you to write a letter, or make a phone call to keep trails open for our fellow wheelers, and our kids and grandkids.
Del, John Stewart, Don Klusman and myself can only do so much. We work to keep you all informed and try to keep our herd of cats moving in the right direction. :)
So, we need everyone to donate to BRC, United, Cal4 and any others that you may have an association with for your chosen sport vehicle.

I am not in the inner workings of BRC, and can not answer why they are not up front with this issue. I would bet they are in the background though!
United has not had much of an effect, or effort in California, and I hope to bring a new presence here for United.

On a side note, ask all your friends to join Cal4, BRC, or United and support the actions of these groups. When I was on the Rubicon for the June 30th work weekend, I talked to a few people that were running the trail that are not members of any of the above groups. I would bet that all or about 95 percent of the people on the work weekend are members of one or all of the above groups.

Todd
Navy-Jeepster
United Four Wheel Drive Association
Interim Director of Environmental Affairs

So, let's see..

Local level - your local club (TDO is probably one of the closest and most vocal near me)
State level - Cal4wheel
Federal level - Blueribbon Coalition, Tread Lightly, United Four Wheel Drive Association.

Anything I'm missing?

URL's could be helpful..

Well.....I just sent my $$$ into the BRC, CA4x4 is next...

BUT:

I spent the moring looking at Land-use sites that are on OUR SIDE

I personally consider www.muirnet.net (along with 4x4wire) the best one, however, I could find no alerts or info there that is recent on Route Dez in ELDO. Our meetings were not posted (COME ON JOHN!!!) Still, I know John is there working for us becuase of his post on PBB.

Cal4wheel.com's LAST ELDO info was from 5/06

Ingear, thier magazine reports that Sirrea Trek is cancelled....that's a TEMPPRARY closure. Route Des in ELDO is permanent and will affect many more people, yet there is nothing posted there.

Calaccess and BRC still had nothing on it...

Looks like it's up to us to get the word out.

Two things to remember:

1. Eldo is the first to go thru route dez. We are the guinea pig. Our first punch should be our strongest.. Also, ELDO stands to lose a ton of miles and has a high concentration on 4x4 spots...

2. I realise that these groups may do things "behind the scenes", but the way route dez is set up, we need individual responses!!! LOTS OF THEM. This info NEEDS to get out to as many people as possible.

FWIW, I am a member of BRC and always will be.

But the way I see it, BRC keeps asking for more money. People need to SEE INVOLVMENT in the issues that EFFECT US(we dont have a watercraft or a snowmobile, we live in California and enjoy 4 wheeling). Help save our forest!!


I have no problem donating time and $ to them or any other organization if I see something happening but so far I have seen nothing but trails being closed everywere around me.
I do what I can as do many others but I am frustrated that I havn't see any thing from BRC except for a few e-mails that its Del's B-Day(happy birthday buddy) and his Jeep is pink. Why is that important to me.:confused:
If we started seeing posts about how BRC is counter suing, or appealing, or filing a lawsuit on our behalf.......I bet the donations would skyrocket.

If things are being done.......POST UP, I want to see what is being done by BRC!

So far......I would be more apt to send money to Randii than I would to any organization because he seems to be leading this battle so far.

I understand the frustration of some. In this "instant gratification" society, we want results. We send in $30/year, and we want every trail that's ever been closed to be instantly reopened. We all know that it doesn't work like this, and that the state and national groups are stretched very thin.

The really sad thing is that if even 50% of all motorized recreation users would donate to a local, state, and national OHV group, we wouldn't be having this discussion. We'd be out wheeling and enjoying our access. Since the number is closer to 5%, we have a lot of work to do.

Every activist community is full of egos, and there will always be guys who demand to know every detail about where the money goes, why this or that isn't being done, etc. It happens to the enviros, the cancer cause, and every other group. However, in our group (motorized recreation), we have a MUCH smaller universe of potential donors. Therefore, each negative comment carries 10x the impact of a similar comment aimed at SUWA from an enviro-nut. These discussions drive people away rather than bring more in.

My advice is to support what these groups CAN be when they are fully funded, rather than bitching about what they are not. It may be hard, but we've got to trust that BRC, Del, and all the others are working in the best interest of the community in the long term, and that they are doing the best they can with the resources available. If you can't accept that, then quit your job, take a huge pay cut, expect to only be paid for half your time, and start working for one of the groups to make it better.

And keep up the good work on the ground. Nothing replaces local activism, but take it offline for the most affect.

So far......I would be more apt to send money to Randii, Kurt, Rick and BEBE than I would to any organization because he seems to be leading this battle so far.


Fixed it for you! :flipoff2:

I understand the frustration of some. In this "instant gratification" society, we want results. We send in $30/year, and we want every trail that's ever been closed to be instantly reopened. We all know that it doesn't work like this, and that the state and national groups are stretched very thin.

.

I think you are missing my point. That's not what I expect at all.

I expect these groups to GET THE INFORMATION OUT TO THE 4X4 COMMUNITY.

That is NOT being done. At all.

No e-mails, nothing posted on websites etc.

However, there IS an RV for sale on Del's site, and a write up on his jeep.

Cal4wheel.com's LAST ELDO info was from 5/06

Help out the webmasters!

You guys have the info organized pretty well, send it to the webmasters, so that they can update the websites. As had been mentioned, we are the foot soldiers. We are at the individual battle level. We have the pertinent info for the individual battles.

When I have seen outdated info on the Cal4Wheel website (and I have had the correct info), I email to Ray DeLong and he usually responds quickly.

Help out the webmasters!

You guys have the info organized pretty well, send it to the webmasters, so that they can update the websites. As had been mentioned, we are the foot soldiers. We are at the individual battle level. We have the pertinent info for the individual battles.

When I have seen outdated info on the Cal4Wheel website (and I have had the correct info), I email to Ray DeLong and he usually responds quickly.


I HAVE sent it to the webmasters over a month ago, they replied they would take care of it.....nothing has happened, nothing will

FYI this was BRC webmaster

I HAVE sent it to the webmasters over a month ago, they replied they would take care of it.....nothing has happened, nothing will

That's a legitimate gripe. I don't know the inner workings of BRC or I would offer a suggestion.

edit > email our buddy Del Albright. See if he can light a fire under the proper asses to get the website updated.

So far......I would be more apt to send money to Randii, Kurt, Rick and BEBE than I would to any organization because he seems to be leading this battle so far.
Fixed it for you! :flipoff2:
The cool think about motorized recreation -- and especially FOTR -- is that we all step up as we're able. I appreciate the kind words, Ryan, and appreciate being included in such a hard-working group, Kurt, but our impact is limited without the general public. We can put a kink in the closurist plans individually... or step up to the soapbox and/or microphone and communicate to the masses and effect real change.

The thing is, when you look at that soapbox, it has Blue Ribbon Coalition written on it... and the microphone has a Cal4 sticker and we're using a CORVA loudspeaker. Oddly enough, the power cord to the amplifier is from FOTR, but they're all cool with us borrowing the gear, and working off the basis that they (and we!) have helped to build. If you follow the mic cord back to the UFWDA generator, you'll see a box that says break glass in case of emergency that's crawling with little lawyers. Up on that soapbox, it helps to know that deeper pockets (deeper that mine, FOTR's coalitions, or even a large association by itself) are available if we need to appeal... and I suspect we will, since we are one of the first Forests through the process.

With no disrespect to anyone individually, and HUGE respect for the force we are when banded all together, let's keep working the important issues and focus on route designation. Join organizations if you feel good about them (I do!), but if you don't, PLEASE don't let that spin you out and off focus on the most important task at hand -- written response to your Forest's Route Designation alternatives.

Randii
activist AND member at many levels

Well.....I just sent my $$$ into the BRC, CA4x4 is next...

BUT:

I spent the moring looking at Land-use sites that are on OUR SIDE

I personally consider www.muirnet.net (along with 4x4wire) the best one, however, I could find no alerts or info there that is recent on Route Dez in ELDO. Our meetings were not posted (COME ON JOHN!!!) Still, I know John is there working for us becuase of his post on PBB.

Cal4wheel.com's LAST ELDO info was from 5/06

Ingear, thier magazine reports that Sirrea Trek is cancelled....that's a TEMPPRARY closure. Route Des in ELDO is permanent and will affect many more people, yet there is nothing posted there.

Calaccess and BRC still had nothing on it...

Looks like it's up to us to get the word out.

Two things to remember:

1. Eldo is the first to go thru route dez. We are the guinea pig. Our first punch should be our strongest.. Also, ELDO stands to lose a ton of miles and has a high concentration on 4x4 spots...

2. I realise that these groups may do things "behind the scenes", but the way route dez is set up, we need individual responses!!! LOTS OF THEM. This info NEEDS to get out to as many people as possible.

Well, I have been home about one day out of the past 5 and overall have been gone 2 weeks out of the past 4 weeks.

Sorry, I can't catch all of the notices and dates.

Help out the webmasters!

You guys have the info organized pretty well, send it to the webmasters, so that they can update the websites. As had been mentioned, we are the foot soldiers. We are at the individual battle level. We have the pertinent info for the individual battles.

When I have seen outdated info on the Cal4Wheel website (and I have had the correct info), I email to Ray DeLong and he usually responds quickly.

Cal4's webmaster had hip replacement surgery on Monday and will be unable to do anything with the web site for a few days.

However, he has been working on several changes that will be rolled out while he is home recovering.

BRC has finally put up an alert on there website regarding the Eldorado DEIS. I am a little concerned that I had to go look for it, I thought they were to send out alert emails which I never received.

Strange, Wldwon,

As this is the alert I got from BRC on 7/17. I'll admit it could have been sooner, but it does exist, they did send alerts... are you a member, or on the free alert list?

Ken

BRC ACTION ALERT

ELDORADO NF RELEASES DRAFT EIS
PREFERRED ALTERNATIVE CLOSES MANY MILES OF ROADS AND TRAILS

Dear BRC Action Alert Subscriber,

The Eldorado National Forest has announced that their Travel Management Draft Environmental Impact Statement (DEIS) is now available on the Eldorado National Forest website.

Keep in mind that this plan will limit ALL vehicle use to designated roads, trails and areas.

To access the Travel Manegement DEIS, click on this link:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/projects/route/deis/index.shtml

Information on the DEIS as well as dates, times and locations of public information meetings are here:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/documents/route/enf_rdp_v3i1.pdf

The Eldorado NF is home to world class OHV opportunity. BRC will be working with our partners in California on a thorough review of the Preferred Alternative, as well as other Alternatives the agency developed.

Stated simply, this is the last chance to really make effective route specific comments. BRC strongly urges anyone who recreates on the Eldo to review the plan and send in comments.

Stay tuned for regular updates and info.

Brian Hawthorne
BlueRibbon Coalition
208-237-1008 x 102

As Randii stated, it is the coaltion that makes us strong. Asking questions about details like keeping websites updated, getting out notice etc., will only get more action and more effectiveness. We will only get better and better. We all need to stay on top of this. I am glad we actually had an extra couple days to get this going. Through Kurt's and Rick's efforts BRC got out a notice three days before comments opened. Bear and others have been distributing it too!! Right on!! Well Done. Let's keep up the good work and build on it. That is the only way we are going to preserve ANY access we may have, be it large or small.

Scott