Overweight – How much is OK (not the normal argument)

OK – I lied – it probably is the normal argument all over again.

BUT WAIT – I’d like if we could make this one a little different than the usual battle between those for and those against. You know, the kind where the heavy haulers come out swinging, the weigh Nazi’s join them in fierce battle and when the bell rings everyone retires to their corner slightly punch drunk, while nothing gets really resolved and those of us observing are left no less confused.

Instead, maybe we can post not only out opinions and experiences, but also what those are based on. I’d like to know about what we think the “published” limits are based on and just as importantly WHY. What the consequences are of exceeding those published limits are, for operation under which conditions (worst case?) are those limits published, what (if any) are the remedies or options one can take to mitigate the situation (of being overweight), and ultimately what people feel safe or comfortable with regarding how much overweight is OK.

I’ll start, and use a personal example from a decision I’m trying to make on a slide-in truck camper – let me know what you think.

Truck is a 2007 Chevy Silverado 2500HD 6.0 gas, CC, SB, 4x4.

GVWR – 9200 lbs (published)
Curb weight – 5883 lbs, full of gas (published)
Payload – 3317 lbs (published)
GAWR (f) – 4670 lbs (published)
GAWR ( r) – 6084 lbs (published) (I assume this is 2x tire limit)
Tire capacity – 3042 lbs @ 8 psi (printed on tire)
Max tow (weight carrying) – 7500 lbs (published)
Max tow (GN, 5er, WD hitch) – 9800 lbs (published)
GCWR – 16000 lbs (published)
18’ trailer – 2000 lbs (published)
Buggy, in trail trim (fuel & tools) – 4500lbs (scaled)

Situation: We’re looking for a truck camper to load while we tow the buggy.

Take the 3317 lbs payload,
- subtract 490 lbs for people (2 adults & 2 kids
- subtract 650 lbs for 10% tongue weight

And we’re left with 2177 lbs capacity.

Add, say 400 lbs for “stuff” - food, gear, camping supplies, dog, etc. and we’re down to 1777 lbs capacity.

Now here are the wet weights of the two campers we looked at (includes full water and propane), and how much each would put me over-weight.

Lance 861 – 3535 lbs – over by 1758 lbs
Lance 845 – 2703 lbs – over by 926 lbs

That’s seems quite a bit – which leads to my question about how much over is ok (if any?)

Here are my thoughts:

Why it might be OK to be over:
- first, anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that maybe 80% of haulers out there are over by some amount,.
- One argument might also be that the factory “published limits” are conservative. Why would this be so? Liability and warranty spring to mind, combined with the conditions under which the published limits apply. I.e. – presumably if my published payload is 3317 lbs, I can load the truck with that, all day, every day, in extreme conditions (up and down hills? temperature extremes?) for the reasonable life of the truck – presumably for at least as long as the warranty (7 years, 150,000 km). And presumably this is also for driving at min posted speed limits in traffic.

So how would these “published limits” change for occasional use (6 x year for a few days at a time) at slow speed, on flat ground, in low-traffic areas, and with the truck brand new, not beat on and worn down?

Why it might not be OK to be over:
Then again – the truck market is popular and very competitive – manufacturers are using towing and hauling capacities in major advertising – so presumably they squeeze every pound out of their limits as they can – to “beat” the competition. But then agin – who has the final say – the engineer? The bean counter? The lawyers?

OK, to get to the tech of this – what are the limiting factors and effects of exceeding, and what if anything, can be done to mitigate.

My guesses are:

- number one is probably braking / stopping distance. I assume the lawyers are going to make them limit the capacities to where the average guy can stop reasonably in traffic?
- Possibly tied for number one would be tire limits – especially after the Ford/Firestone fiasco. It’s no coincidence that my tires are rated to 3042 lbs each and the RAWR is 6084 lbs. I don’t think you’d ever want to exceed the tire’s limits, but you can get higher rated tires (3400 lbs are common), and of course you’d have to scale the rear of the truck to do the calcs. Anyone know what percentage of the trucks curb weight is on the rear axle stock, empty?
- Next I’m not sure, maybe springs / suspension (could be helped with air bags, shocks, overload leafs); or it might be cooling / tranny. Careful “grandpa driving”, aftermarket coolers / rads might be able to help with this a bit. I’d also hate to think that a brand new $50,000 truck fully loaded is within 1000 lbs of major engine or tranny failure – but maybe I’m being naive?

What’s next? Anything else? I’ve left out power because people were carrying and hauling big loads well before any stock truck came with 300hp.

Lastly – driving style has to be a factor. I know there’s a whole crowd who must be able to tow/haul at 80mph and zip in and out of traffic while doing it – you know the one’s that no matter what you have they say you “should’ve gotten bigger/more” It seems they think you need a 1-ton diesel dually to hauls a snowmobile.

But that’s defiantly not me – I just retired my 78 that maybe made 140hp on it’s best day, and that day passed 15 or 20 years ago!! AND it had lousy drum brakes and a weak vaccum booster. The new hydro-boost 4-wheel discs are worlds apart.

But now I’m rambling.

What are your thoughts/experiences?

I have a 9.5' Palomino Bronco pop-up that I believe the sticker says is 1600lbs? on my 8' bed Dodge. I don't think I'd want to put another 1K lbs on it and still tow my trailer. I have also driven my friends 06 Dodge Cummins quad cab 4x4 longbed with his Lance 815 lite pulling a trailer. I am sure it could handle a bit bigger camper, but it likes to sway and it feels like your driving an oceanliner. That is alot of weight standing in the back of your truck. With a shortbed it will want to sway, bounce and jiggle all over the place. I think I'd be looking at lighter campers.
Travis..

I'd think it's just going to be sloppy w/ that cabover in it. If you can drop it in the bed, hook up the trailer and not be popping a wheelie down the road you could run 2k over.

I mean does the 3500 srw have the load capability? Is the rear diff bigger... does it just have overloads, gearing? My buddy's 3500 cummins truck has a bigger rear diff and overloads... on paper his can run a lot more weight than my 2500.

If you slapped some helper bags or a beefier leaf pack I don't think 2k over would kill you. Just make sure the trailer can brake itself safely.

Would I run overloaded? Not if it felt sketchy. If I could forsee a problem I'd be hesitant.

OK, DOT weighs at each axle. You are talking about payload and GVW. However you are also talking about a cabover slide in. So how much weight is on the front end percentage wise? By using a slide in you are helping conteract the rear trailer load somewhat. I guess from my experiences (8 plus years loading truck and trailers from 6000lb up to 45000lb its all about two things. First can the tires handle it? Second you have enough weight on the forward axle to steer. Your braking should be relying on your trailer. If it were mine both axles of your trailer would be braking disc axles. You do not really have to worry about DOT as long as your truck sits level and the tires are not smoking. As you are not a "big boy trucker or business" at least this is how they operate here.

I may get flamed all to hell for my comments but I'm in business and this is how I roll. I get paid for product delivered. If I have to make two trips versus one it cost me double, thus we save where we can. Granted I am also the son of a retired trucking business owner so I have seen it all. I have loaded trucks time and time again 50% heavy and been fine. At times it has cost me tires but they were worth it. Again this is myself driving and not some 16 year old kid. What your talking about overloading will make no difference if your tires can handle it and the trailer is loaded properly, Period end of story. Shawn

Bill, you are a smart guy and know in your mind what is safe and what is not. I cannot tell everyone to use common sense as the world is made up of plenty of idiots, however this you are not. Ask my wife my rules of the road are this, if you see a semi pass it and quick. Do not lollygag around the rear trailer wheels they run them til they are bald. Most smart truckers carry a hammer w/ them and check the tires before leaving port. If you see any trailer loaded w/ any objects stay away from it (shit can and will fall off) This applies to pickup trucks rear beds also. Did I mention common sense?

I think trucks are under rated by the lawyers (as you say). Lawyers work for an insurance companys too. Should you get in an accident and an astute rep or claims agent get a hold of it and realizes you are over the limits of the vehicle they "can" claim you were not operating the vehicle within the specifications given by the manufacturer and not cover you. Read your policy. I know where this happened to someone in regard to an accident and they did not have a current inspection and the claim was denied. REad your policy. That is not to say you can't or that it isn't done, or that my rig haven't been overweight myself, just know the risks.

YOu most likely have a good feel for towing and will drive accordingly but what about the guy who cuts you off etc.

Just food for thought.

I agree with Sillyneck, if it feels sketchy it aint good. A big heavy camper is gonna suck on a short bed. Find out where the center of gravity is on those units. It will most likly be behind the rear axle on your truck, effectively turning it into a penny-racer. Add a hitch extension and a trailer and you've most likely got a truck that is a nightmare to drive. It's up to you to find out what is good for you and your truck/situation. I don't think the weight is gonna be as much of a concern as how it sits and drives.
Travis..

Well, if you want to look at weights, I'd say most single rear wheel trucks hauling a camper and pulling a trailer are overweight.

Let's look at my truck for example, a 98 Ram 2500 CTD has an 8800lbs GVWR

The truck weighs ~7500lbs full of fuel, the stuff I keep in the truck and me.

My trailer has about 750lbs tongue weight.

That would mean I could only haul 550lbs in the bed, which is pretty much another person, dog and camping gear/food.

:eek:

Here's how I figured out what my F250 could haul.

1) Look at the plate from the manufacture. Now, that's your baseline.

2) Lookup the data specs on the rear axle. On the 2001 F250, it's spec'd at about 10k lbs of load.

3) Tires. What are they? E-rated? 275R75/16, E rated are good for 3415 ea tire. That's 6830lbs on the rear axle. In my case, it wasn't enough, so I upgrade the tires to 245/75/195, with a G rating (4500lb ea, 100% steel belted, no poly) Last, don't forget the rims. Just because you upgrade the rims, doesn't mean the rims will handle the weight (I've read posts about the F250/16" rims cracking under loads heavier than 3415lbs ea tire)

4) Suspension. What do you have? Overloads? Air bags? Sway bars? What you have here determines what you can carry (FYI, my F250 came from the factory with the heavyduty suspension)

5) Engine. What do you have it? What transmission? What rear end ratio? can it handle a load without burning up?

6) Brakes. Can you stop that load? Make damn sure any trailer has working brakes. Makes a huge difference in stopping everything!

I also called and told my insurance company about the slide in camper on the F250, and they said 'no problem.'

My superduty has the following upgrades to handle a camper & trailer:

1) air bags

2) rear sway bar added (factory rear is wimpy compared to aftermarket)

3) gas charged, bilstein shocks.

4) Vision 19.5 4500lb rate rims, 245 G rated tires (4500lbs at 110psi)

5) brake controller for the trailer.

6) heavy duty hitch upgrade - a 'class v' hitched rated at 1500lbs tongue weight/1500lbs load distributing weight with a 2" box - I would have to look up this hitch. It's built by embedding the draw box into a 3" tube and then up to the frame - big and solid. note - I wouldn't trust this for anything really heavy if you need a really long extension - I tow a zuk, not some 5k lb monster.

7) frame tie downs for camper - The F250's bed is messed up, so I don't trust it.

It comes down to three major points. (apart from the licensing and D.O.T. regs).
COMPETENT DRIVER!!!!!!
A good driver can safely handle more weight than the average moron.
Competent Vehicle.
Can the truck and trailer handle the load? If the truck is squatting to the point of the bumper dragging then the answer is probably NO. Does the tow rig have enough power to move the load at a safe speed?
Does the truck and trailer have enough braking to safely stop the load?
Proper weight distribution.
I drive a Dodge 3500, and I'm plated to 45,000 pounds. The key is putting the weight in the proper place.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b100/Camarogenius/2.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b100/Camarogenius/2-1.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b100/Camarogenius/3-1.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b100/Camarogenius/3-2.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b100/Camarogenius/033.jpg

Bill,

I don't think any SRW truck should try to carry a camper with a slide out and the Lance 861 does have a slide-out.

My Lance 915 tag says 2372 lbs (that is said to be full of water and propane), but in use it weighs 3000 lbs scaled on average when we go on trips and I normally never put more than 1/3 of a tank of fresh water unless I can't get water at the destination.

My truck 1997 GMC K3500, CC, SRW, 8' bed, 6.5TD, 4.10.
GVW 9200 lbs
tag states in bed payload 1740 lbs

I have scaled the empty truck as low as 6400 lbs and as high as 6900 lbs.

Remember when towing with a truck hauling a camper the truck is heavier than the trailer, so the trailer doesn't tend to push the truck around. I can tell when I tow without the camper that the trailer can push the truck.

I think the 8' bed gives better weight balance than the 6.5' bed will, plus you'll need a longer hitch extension than I do. You need to have room on the trailer to move you rig back to keep the tongue weight down.

DO NOT use the factory GM hitch with an extension (google will provide lots of info on this cheap hitch)!!

Center of gravity this where the 8' bed is better IMO.

http://www.lancecamper.com/ownersupport/camperfaqs.html#cg

The center of gravity (or "CG") is the balance point of a camper, from front to rear with standard equipment, full water and propane tanks and no options.

The posted center of gravity of a camper is determined by measuring from where the camper contacts the rear of the truck bed (taillights) measuring forward.

To find the center of gravity dimension, click on the model that interests you.

I think your truck will handle the Lance 845, but it will be heavy. The Lance 8SCS is even lighter than the 845.

My rules for towing overweight:

1) I run overweight - I understand the DOT will probably never bother me. But if I get in to an accident, even if someone else causes it. I could be found liable for accident I didn't cause because I was overweight. Insurance may not cover you either - in fact you could get dropped. Needless to say - when towing I practice defensive driving like no other. I'll do the speed limit and no more (unless passing), I'll have at least 1, preferably 2 emergency exit points in traffic, etc. etc.

2) Do NOT exceed the ratings of your tires.

3) Ensure you have adequate braking. Unless it's a 1-2 time deal that I can choose the time and route, I want to be able to stop the trailer without the trailer brakes. I don't need to stop on a dime, but I better be able to slow down.

4) Until you have a track record with your truck, check your brakes, wheel bearings, diff fluid, etc. more often. If I tow 5,000 miles in one year in the past I'de check 2-3 times a year.

If you must use that truck I would:

1) Put helper airbags on.

2) If it isn't an 8' bed I probably wouldn't do it. That camper will need to have it's COG forward of the rear axle - don't trust the manufacturer of the camper. Go to rv.net/forum and start asking about their experiences.

3) The trailer will need a W/D setup. For every foot of extension bar you use, you half the hitch weight capacity of your receiver.

4) Drive the truck on short trips with the entire load in safer environments to determine how the truck is going to stop on hills, accelerate, handle corners, etc. Adjust the vehicle as necessary.

Lessons learned:
Truck: 96 1500 4x4, 5.9/auto/3.92, LT245/75R16E, 2500# overload springs, ceramic pads

1) I run 15,000-15,500GCVW when camping. That's truck, trailer, people, cargo. The truck handles the load fine. No major acceleration problems, and I can stop adequately without trailer brakes on a 6.5% grade if necessary - but at the cost of the rotors.

2) I've ran 17,200GCVW (~10,500lb trailer). The trailer needed a w/d hitch setup otherwise it would have handled fine. Probably had 1500-2,000lbs of tongue weight. Braking - with trailer brakes I had oodles of braking power. Could still stop on a dime but needed the trailer brakes to do it. front end was too light, front brakes couldn't do their job alone. (needed w/d). The engine on the other hand. On the flats or slight hills I could tell the trailer was back there but otherwise performed acceptable enough, fuel economy sucked ass (try 6-8mpg vs. the usual 10-11mpg). Now a short 4.5% grade by our house, I had to stop at the bottom. Trying to get started I couldn't go any faster than 15-20mph - that was 1st gear WOT.

There is a breaking point at which things go south - it is somewhere between 15,500lbs and 17,200GCVW.

So add up your weights. ;)

EDIT: Also EVERYONE I know that has hauled a slide in with a SRW (either 2500 or 3500) felt MUCH safer when they went to a DRW.

My Lance 915 tag says 2372 lbs (that is said to be full of water and propane), but in use it weighs 3000 lbs scaled on average when we go on trips and I normally never put more than 1/3 of a tank of fresh water unless I can't get water at the destination.


This is what I mean by don't trust the manufacturer.

I don't care who they are. They either set weights by design and what is built is "slightly" different or they just flat out lie.

Keep in mind, unlike the auto and trucking industry, the RV industry is NOT regulated. They can and have churned out total piles of crap and have managed to evade liability (as far as I know) for accidents they caused by selling unsafe designs - like 7% or less hitch weight EMPTY. Spend enough time on rv.net and you learn alot from people's real world experiences.

I'm not saying lance is doing this, and we are talking slide-in's here not TT's. But the same industry churns those out too. Sure, they'll say 2372 is with propane and water. But what did they remove or call an option. Exactly which model was that and what configuration was it in when weighed. In my experience their dry or wet weights tend to be on the light side.

Well, a couple things here....

One, most RV manufactures are waaaaaayyyy low on their printed weights. This is because they are only required to weigh and print the base model, not the model with options. It sounds stupid, but a printed weight that is lighter than the next manufacture sells units.

Two, there is a ton of engineering and countless hours spent figuring out the limits of the trucks. These limits are not just based on tires, axles, and powertrains, but also how long the trucks are going to be under warranty, frame design, and yes, also the body design and aero-dynamics. Believe it or not, some of a trucks structure rely on the body. Think about how much a truck frame would flex around without the body. A truck frame is like a trailer frame, built on a single plane. If you add sides to a trailer, it helps add structural strength. The same things goes with trucks as well.

To throw an answer at the ten million dollar question "Overweight – How much is OK?", well....NONE
Even if you put air bags, overload springs, etc. etc. on the truck, it does you no good what so ever. I mean, yes, it'll help you haul the weight, but if you get into a major accident and you are found to be hauling an overweight load, you are screwed. The court will NOT care if you have air bags, overload springs, etc. etc. etc. If those aftermarket items don't change the sticker on the inside of the door, then it will NOT matter to the court system.

Do I overload? Hell ya, all the time. Do I have air bags, and do I use common sense? Of course. If I get in an accident and someone dies, is it going to matter? Not a damn bit, I'll still be going to jail because I was the driver and I am the one that is controlling how much weight was put on the truck.

Hey man, I think I covered that with #1 on my list. :flipoff2:

Honestly, I think few people think of that.

As for RV weights - most RV dealers will say, hell yeah your 1500 series truck will tow that 6,000lb trailer just fine. most buyers will then happily buy said trailer just to discover the dealer was talking dry base model weight in order to make the sale. The wet weight for a weekend was much closer to 9,000lbs.

So yes, less "advertised weight" makes sales. People want to get get the most TT/FW their tow rig can handle.

Hey man, I think I covered that with #1 on my list. :flipoff2:


I saw that, but because of helping customers and phone calls this morning, it took me almost an hour to type that. As soon as I posted my reply I saw your post and did a Homer.:homer: "Doooe."

WD hitch is going to take some of the weight and put it on the trailer as well as transfer it forward.


I have several friends with nearly the same set up that you describe. They have run from Atlanta to Moab with no problems.

I think a few guys have really covered the real problem here, and done a damn fine job of that. The "TRUCK" in all probablity will haul the load as long as you use a little common sense with your driving technique. Don't go completly nuts and the truck will do the job. Helper springs and add on air bags will help with carring the load but will do absolutly nothing to change that sticker on the door. The GVWR is set by the manufacturer and can not be changed no matter how much stuff you add to the truck.

Dot or DMV nor the highway Patrol will probably never check to see if you are over loaded. Hell if you are not driving at least a 1 ton Dually with a slide in camper you are probably over loaded. And the 1 ton dually is no guareentee that you are in fact legal. I have a brand new Lance 1181 slide in camper and it weighs empty on the scales 4,029 lbs. There may be a 1 ton that can haul that load legally but I sure don't know which one it would be. my Dodge 3500 DRW 1 Ton had a payload of only 3,300 lbs, Chevy's is real close to that as well. The ford F350 I just don't know what the payload is. I bought a F-450 2008 Ford to haul my camper, the payl;oad on that new Ford was 5,820 lbs in 4X4 and over 6,000 lbs in a 2WD TRUCK. My Ford F-450 4X4 is as far as I know the only truck-- pick-up--- that is "RATED" to haul this load. And it did a piss poor job of it sagging so bad I have spent a ton of money and over a month having a Air-ride suspension installed just to get it to do what it should have been able to do but wouldn't. But it will be legal to haul the load.

The real problem with running overloaded is what a couple of guys have said. If you have an accident and in the investagation of that accident the find that you were overloaded insurance is the least of your problems. We live today in a litigios society. Somebody wants to sue somebody else for something almost all of the time. District Attorneys are just looking to file charges, criminal charges when ever they can. If you drive overloaded and have an accident and someone gets hurt or killed, and that is a real possiblity today just driving up and down I-5 any weekend. They will proscute you just as hard and fast as they can. Jail time can suddenly be a real life event for just wanting to get yourself and your family, and your crawling rig from point "A" to point "B" for a little fun.

Yea your truck can haul the load just fine probably. But is that the real question??

Gunny

Tire capacity – 3042 lbs @ 8 psi (printed on tire)

What brand tire are those ???????


:D :D :D

Here is one of my Trucks and the military Shelter / Camper shell that I carry on it. From what I remember it has a GVWR of just under 10K Lbs. and the shelter weighs in at just around 1500 lbs.

The Shelter sits directly over the rear axle.

Around town the 14 bolt wears the 37" tires shown but over the road when its pulling my boat it changes to the Goodrich 35" mud terrain radials.

BTW is anyone would like to see the 14 bolt Drum to Disc conversion I did here is the thread.
Its not the run of the mill conversion where you buy the laser cut brackets either.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=533375


Here is the truck.
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j184/mag-lock/Vehicles/M1028CUCV.jpg

And here are the Military shelters that its built to carry. Although it only carries one at a time.
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j184/mag-lock/Vehicles/M250CommunicationShelter.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j184/mag-lock/73SangerOnLake.jpg

The GVWR is set by the manufacturer and can not be changed no matter how much stuff you add to the truck.


Actually, to tell everyone the truth, you can have the sticker and the ratings changed. It must be done by a licensed "Final Vehicle Manufacture" like myself, and then it is legal. BUT, by the "FVM" changing the sticker, they are the ones that must now accept the liability in the vehicle if something was to happen to the truck. Most FVM's that I know WILL NOT accept that kind of liability. And the ones that do, charge a pretty hefty sum.

Actually, to tell everyone the truth, you can have the sticker and the ratings changed. It must be done by a licensed "Final Vehicle Manufacture" like myself, and then it is legal. BUT, by the "FVM" changing the sticker, they are the ones that must now accept the liability in the vehicle if something was to happen to the truck. Most FVM's that I know WILL NOT accept that kind of liability. And the ones that do, charge a pretty hefty sum.

There may be a loophole if you build a truck though. By build, I mean from dead scratch, as in, I would own a 2008 Waldher, Special Edition. :laughing: I'm not sure if you could use an existing cab from some existing product line.

I know there are laws in place that allow people to build their own cars and not be subject to the same standards vehicle manufacturers are.

I agree with Sillyneck, if it feels sketchy it aint good.
The inverse isn't necessarily true, though... if it feels good, it ain't necessarily good. I think this may be a larger problem, since people don't find out they are operating beyond their own or their equipment's limits until they screw up big.

Weight ratigs are there to help avoid this. When violating them, be extra careful operating, and be damn sure you know what you're doing, since you are assuming all risks personally -- your insurance company is going to be no help, if they find out you were operating outside the limits.

Randii

A buddy of mine and I have this discussion all the time. He's got a '02 Siveraldo 2500 Duramax/Ally combo. I've got an '02 3500 Duramax.

We've been through the trucks top to bottom to see what the differences are. The 3500 has heavier springs and a couple extra tires. We think the axles tubes are also heavier on the 3500 but we haven't confirmed that.

The brakes are the same on both trucks and the trailer towing capacities are close (actually a touch higher for the 2500 because the truck is lighter). My payload capacity is nearly double his. The main reason is tire capacity.

As you mentioned, your tires are rated to 3042lbs. Sure the truck can carry more but the tires simply aren't rated for it.

Your weights you posted didn't include water for the camper. That's 200-400lbs there depening on the size of the tank. And if you don't dump before the return trip, your grey/black tank weights need to be looked at.

Your slide in, plus water, plus supplies, plus people already puts you over the tire ratings. Add the toungue weight and you're asking for tire problems.

If you want to know for sure, ask them to load the camper on and scale it on your truck. The short test drive to the scale and the real weight from the scale will tell you if this is a good idea or not.

The inverse isn't necessarily true, though... if it feels good, it ain't necessarily good. I think this may be a larger problem, since people don't find out they are operating beyond their own or their equipment's limits until they screw up big.

Weight ratigs are there to help avoid this. When violating them, be extra careful operating, and be damn sure you know what you're doing, since you are assuming all risks personally -- your insurance company is going to be no help, if they find out you were operating outside the limits.

Randii

Very true, I am saying that people will drive some REALLY sketchy shit and think "that's just how it is". :shaking:
Travis..

I did not read the whole thread, it'sd probably in there already......

I'd pass. I bet your truck weighs about 800 more than published- go to the scales. I bet your camper also weighs more than published. Your whole margin thing then get's may worse on an already borderline deal. $100 says you won't like it, you really will be disappointed with handling and your wife may feel real uncomfy with the white knuckle ride/handling.

the brakes are likely common to the 20k+ GCWR trucks, the 6.0, handling, light front, high COG, marginal sungle tires are your biggest concerns. I'd be surprised if an slide in put the cog (actual, not published) more than 10" in front of the axle, now add you stuff and hitch weight.....

There may be a loophole if you build a truck though. By build, I mean from dead scratch, as in, I would own a 2008 Waldher, Special Edition. :laughing: I'm not sure if you could use an existing cab from some existing product line.

I know there are laws in place that allow people to build their own cars and not be subject to the same standards vehicle manufacturers are.

I wasn't talking about building a truck from the ground up. I receive trucks in the shop all the time that we build with different beds and options. Even standard pick-ups that we build into other forms of pick-ups. I am also a licensed final vehicle manufacture. I pay for the lic. just like Ford, Chevy, Dodge, etc. etc. etc. This means that by law I'm licensed to change the ratings on the trucks depending on tires, axles, frame changes that we had to make, bed configurations, etc. etc. etc. Anyhow, it is possible to legally get the numbers changed, I just don't know that many companies that'll do.

I know, I was just saying that there is another way to possibly do it for those that search and find this thread later. :)

I know, I was just saying that there is another way to possibly do it for those that search and find this thread later. :)

Gotcha!