Help a tig idiot.

[nissancrawler]

First off, I'm looking to buy a tig welder and have no clue on what to get. i don't need a heavy duty one, but would like the capability of 1/8", maybe 3/16" at the most. I want to be able to do aluminum, so it would be ac/dc, right?

There's not much used around here, so I'm mostly looking at something new.
I'm assuming these inverter ones are junk? http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-220-VOLT-130-TIG-90ARC-WELDER-INVERTER_W0QQitemZ270137327378QQihZ017QQcategoryZ1 13743QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
It seems way too cheap.

Second, what's a good tig guide/book to read on basic techniques? I know nothing about tig, but am alright at mig welding.

I mainly want to weld aluminum with it, and a spool gun for my welder is $4-500, plus my welder requires a $200 speed control, so I figured I might as well get a tig before I spend that much on a spoolgun.

[fj40charles]

Personally, I'd skip that one one ebay. I believe this unit does not have a foot pedal. It looks alot like this one from HF.. Not sure if it is the same or not.
http://www.weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=12375

The power is little low for aluminum. You need more amps for aluminum since it dissipates heat very well.

Have you thought about selling you mig and buying one with a spool gun or buying a used TIG welder? I don't think you're going to be happy with that on on ebay.

[fj40guy]

Start reading tech tips on http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledge/articles

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowledge/articles/content/tigalum.asp

Also ask around at work who is good at TIG and Aluminum, and is willing to assist. EAA (experimental aircraft assn) is another source. Sigh, one thing I've discovered in our local EAA chapter is everyone has become "RV Riveters" and not welders of yesterday. Few folks building 'rag and tube' airplanes any more. Our local chapter has a "Thursday Lunch Meeting" which is great as I can bring a sample of my work for critique. :)

Oh, I'm still working on oxy/act gas welding aluminum (5052) but have a long ways to go. Too many other things to get done.

Tom

[BumpyDodge]

You won't be able to do aluminum with that welder - it's DC only
It looks like a really light duty scratch start rig. (No high freq, no remote)
It's cheap because you can't really do much with it.

Check out your local community college - TIG's tricky to teach yourself and there are different features on different TIG machines that are difficult to appreciate until you've learned the fundamentals and gotten some actual torch time.

Not too many people are going to let you try out their TIG welder unless you can convince them you're competent with the basics. I can't afford to let someone fry a $2600 Dynasty "learning" to TIG weld. Transformer based machines (like I learned on) can take a lot more abuse, are less expensive to purchase, but take more power to run and usually require their own 220 circuit (read as: perfect for college welding classes, not necessarily perfect for you). You're probably gonna pay one way or the other, so take some lessons and figure out what you really want before you invest in your own machine. AC TIG is nothing like MIG - it's a totally different ballgame.

Keep in mind that If you plan to do aluminum or go over 150 amps with a TIG you'll probably want a water cooler too. The books all say 200 amps is about the cutoff for air cooled torches, but you can't weld for long over 150 without the torch getting pretty toasty!

TIG has a relatively slow and expensive learning curve, but it's worth the time and cost if you want to do top-notch work.

If you want to learn a few basics in the meantime, try here (http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/improving-your-skills/tig/)

[nissancrawler]

Is this acceptable, or a turd? http://cgi.ebay.com/New-160-Amp-AC-DC-Tig-Stick-Welder-Plasma-Cutter-4-in-1_W0QQitemZ170125567113QQihZ007QQcategoryZ113743QQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I'll probably just use air cooled to start with, then add a cooler if needed. I really don't see myself using the tig enough to matter. Honestly, the main thing I want it for right now is to build some light racks for the garage.

[fj40charles]

Is this acceptable, or a turd? http://cgi.ebay.com/New-160-Amp-AC-DC-Tig-Stick-Welder-Plasma-Cutter-4-in-1_W0QQitemZ170125567113QQihZ007QQcategoryZ113743QQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I'll probably just use air cooled to start with, then add a cooler if needed. I really don't see myself using the tig enough to matter. Honestly, the main thing I want it for right now is to build some light racks for the garage.

The starting bid is 799 plus 100 shipping. I personally would not spend $900 on this unit. I would look for a used tig welder for a little more.

[nissancrawler]

That's kind of what I figured. The only problem is, I don't see them around here much. I might think about selling my hh175 and getting an ironman 210 that's spoolgun capable.

[sn0border88]

our shopmaster 300 seems to fit your bill well. Its an awesome stick and mig platform and is fairly nice with tig though it dont have a water cooled torch with it like our syncrowaves do (watercooled torchs rock). May be a bit out of your price range. But I would defiantly sell what you need to get a quality welder with good parts availability.

I dont think it is capable of a spoolgun or alum tig, it may be with the right attachments.

As for learning tig, I dont think its that hard. I was given a few pointers from the boss my first day and I took it from there ever since. I do mostly .065 wall stainless which im told is fairly tricky to weld the fittings too but I never had any problems with it.

[DavidVanVorous]

1. Its entirely possible to do Alum in a DC mode (High Frequency continuous to assist cleaning), but you have have immaculate parts (no contamination)... ditto copper can be done in a similar mode. I use a little lye as an etchant/cleaner followed by a rinse with water and acetone in the weld zone for cleaning before hand and do a bit better job with the degreaser to reduce any possible crud melting-drizzling into the weld zone when going this route.

2. Using a low power machine can be done but theres a preheat thats required to get things rolling. The reality is that one really *should* have around 250a possible from the unit to be productive on 1/8-3/16 material.

3. TIG and Oxy-Acetylene use similar techniques, its the foot pedal controlling AND rod manipulation that gets folks.

D.

[KRMNALMIND]

It sounds like what you want to keep cost down. just look into a ready welder and run a spool of aluminum. COst is about $450 and then you have a portable for the trail. If you are rarely going to tig your money could be spent better. I learned to weld years ago. we started gas welding which you rarely see anymore then moved to Arc with a stick folled by Mig and Tig. If you want to learn to tig start with steel it will be easier to learn but like said above the more torch time you can get the better. It's been years since I have been on a jobsite but i was doing Tig on stainless process pipe with a powcon that was a versatile machine. You can look around for a used powcon very now and then you can find one for a good by then add on any accessories you may need but like said above you will need to make sure whatever you by is AC/DC. the DC inveter style is only good for steel they are much cheaper to build but very limited. just a thought

Craig

[Mattsyj7]

I can't afford to let someone fry a $2600 Dynasty "learning" to TIG weld.


How can You fry a TIG welder while learning?

Im just wondering what not to do while I learn :D

[cj7jeep81]

That's kind of what I figured. The only problem is, I don't see them around here much. I might think about selling my hh175 and getting an ironman 210 that's spoolgun capable.

another option is the new hobart handler 210. its around 900 for the welder, and is spool gun ready. i'd go that route instead of an iron man 210. the spool gun is about 450.

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200336866_200336866

[nissancrawler]

interesting, I might actually prefer that to the ironman. I'll have to swing by tractor supply and see their prices on it. They're usually pretty decent. I would much prefer the 7 voltage taps over the 4 I have now. I liked the infinite voltage on the 275 century I used before.

[BumpyDodge]

How can You fry a TIG welder while learning?

Im just wondering what not to do while I learn :D

Stuff I have witnessed:

Try "T" welding (no "IG" because dumbass didn't turn the Argon on)
Exceed duty cycle on machine
Overheat torch
I'm sure grounding out tungsten every 10 seconds isn't good for the circuit board on an inverter machine
loop the leads around other equipment and use Hi Freq
melt collets (really don't know how the hell they did that)
break ceramic cups
drop inverter machine off bench because of tripping over leads
run over leads with a truck
play with buttons on machine that WERE my presets
etc. etc. etc.

[DavidVanVorous]

Stuff I have witnessed:

Try "T" welding (no "IG" because dumbass didn't turn the Argon on)
Exceed duty cycle on machine
Overheat torch
I'm sure grounding out tungsten every 10 seconds isn't good for the circuit board on an inverter machine
loop the leads around other equipment and use Hi Freq
melt collets (really don't know how the hell they did that)
break ceramic cups
drop inverter machine off bench because of tripping over leads
run over leads with a truck
play with buttons on machine that WERE my presets
etc. etc. etc.

Most of those sound *real* familiar, might add that screwing up the collets is related to overheating via wrong torch (air vs. water for current) or better yet running the wrong sized tungsten for the current...

On an idle Q how were we shorting out every 10 sec, stinger too close for the current or wrong angle and too close? :D :D

D.

[BumpyDodge]

I'm perfect - never done any of that myself :flipoff2:

[DavidVanVorous]

I'm perfect - never done any of that myself :flipoff2:

Betcha play liars poker pretty well too...:laughing:

Adding to your "young-dumb" list...

Cleaning frame parts with Brakleen (AKA Trichloroethylene) and leaving it puddled in side the tubes such that one got gassed by the fumes of near phosgene gas as the stuff broke down with the heat near the weld areas.

Not checking the settings on the welder and diving into welding .015 thick widgets with a 150a setting.

D.

[sn0border88]

Not checking the settings on the welder and diving into welding .015 thick widgets with a 150a setting.


Yup, I left for lunch and came back to a piece of .025 I was welding and started back up.

While I was out, someone else was welding 1/2" aluminum at ~250A.

:(

It wasnt fun to fix.