I need some pics of some easy trails to show the judge that it is safe to take my boys wheelin.

Went to court yesterday and things were going my way and some deputie comes in and says to the judge "I have some experience wheelin" " he then tells the judge that he wouldent take a teenager wheelin cause it can and will cause seriouse injory to them or an adult. " his experience was in a fire truck hauling ass up hill to fight a fire. Up intil this time I was able to take the boys with my wheeling, Ijust couldnt do any hard trails with them in the truck. Now I have until 06-19-02 to show proof that wheeling is a safe sport to take our kids.

Any pics of some simple trails would help alot or some letters to state that other families do the same thing with there kids.

I wanted to goto HH this weekend but I have the boys this weekend so wheelin is out of the pic. Maybe I can come up and talk to some of you this weekend and get interviews on tape or writen on paper. Thanks for your support

:jeep: ROCHOG

how about a Jeep Jamboree video or brochure.
nothing tamer then that

that's absolutely the most rediculous thing i've ever heard!! Wheeling is one of the best things i can think of to do with your kids. You get to spend loads of quality time with them, show them beautiful spots, teach them about cars, etc..

Sorry to hear that man, that's a shame. Mj beat me to the punch on the Jamboree idea but CA4WD or TLCA should also have some family shots for you. Best of luck to you...

We started taking my granddaughter with us when she was 3. Here is a couple of pics, one on the trail and one in camp. This is on the Rubicon.

The other pic, Lots of other kids there too.

You can find some good pictures of a trip we took on the Rubicon a couple years ago at this url...
http://www.pirate4x4.com/glenn2/4th2000/index.htm

There's even some of Lance, Dimitri and some others playing a game of baseball with some of the little ones at camp... Will these work for you??? :D:D:D

Here's one of Dustin and his son at camp near Little Sluice.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/glenn2/md2001/rwmd7.jpg

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/5feef820/bc/My+Photos/Feb.+17th+02/Beautiful.jpg?bc808J9AzjpdDYUm

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/5feef820/bc/My+Photos/MakinItLookEasy.jpg?bc038J9A6J.JFVyl

I have 4 girls ages 11, 9, 4, 3 years old. My husband and I take them with us on the trail. We have taken all four as far up as Spider Lake. The are totall safe and they have a great time. They like wheelin better than Disneyland. If there was a precarious spot, I will take them out, or my husband will, if I or him are not driving. I was not sure of it at first, thinking it not be a safe thing to do for little ones, but after I saw how safe EVERYONE is on the trail, and others helping out eachother, and the BIGGGG!!! smile on my little ones face, how could we take that away from them. I have Pics of my youngest sleeping while driving up Walker Hill. I will try to send pic to show. As far as I am concerned, the ONLY one who could judge your childs safety is you, and that's being a good parent. Just be responsible. Tell the Judge he could email me and I'll tell him the stories my kids talk about , better yet, He could ask them himself!!!:)

here's a pic of a granddad/grandson on Sierra Trek last year at winch hill 4. (note 66CJdean hanging out in the background)

http://community.webshots.com/photo/19839109/19839244PDMtxWhfOt

I've seen kids of all ages on the run as young as toddlers.

at Winter Fun Fest, another Cal 4wheel event. There were lots of kids of all ages on this run. Here are a couple of the real young ones and they were having a blast.


http://community.webshots.com/photo/29810257/29810401IXQJMofiUB

http://community.webshots.com/photo/29810257/29810421wkoSQmHgJF

I'd email Cal 4 wheel and ask for some stats of how many kids go on organized runs.

good luck,

- Dan

I've got some pictures on my websites that you're more than welcome to use. Lots of stuff from Carnegie, Hollister, Deer Valley, etc.

Suzuki site (http://home.attbi.com/~rokzuki) and Tacoma site (http://home.attbi.com/~marvinmartian)

WTF tell that Judge to stick it where the sun don't shine :mad3:
He has no right to tell you that wheeling (a legal activity) is unsafe for your kids. yes, injury can happen but it can happen in baseball too is baseball unsafe? I have no Idea how old your kids are but when I was a young (13 on up, but I could have raced younger) I raced go-karts no roll bar, no seat belt. All I had was a helmet, a neck brace, and a fire retardant suit. Bottom line is no judge should be able to tell you what activities you can and can't do with you kids as long as they are within the laws and wheeling most definatly is within the laws. :mad3:

In SEDONA, AZ they have the "Red Rock Jeep Tours" as well as the "Pink Jeep Tours". These are basic trails that are lead by there own guides. They also have some rentals and maps so you can go ff on your own, IF I remember right.

Try using Google.com and Dogpile.com. These two search engines will provide you a BIG wealth of info. You should be able to get brochures and maybe even some video type info-mercials. The videos may costa few bucks BUT they would be well worth the $ spent for outside PROOF that wheeling is a fun wholesome family activity. There has to be some form of sanctioned activities that could show what you are looking for. Private OHV parks would be an excellent source for organized wheeling events and most likely would show quite a bit of info and/or video promoting family stuff.

Best of Luck ROCHOG!!

here, feel free to use any of the pics off my site, there are some pretty moderate ones:
http://www.rivercityrockcrawlers.com/~treefitty4x4/tripreports.html



http://www.rivercityrockcrawlers.com/~treefitty4x4/images2/eaglelake/t100flex1.jpg

I have found that alot of people mistakenly think you are talking about ATVs when you use the term four wheeling or offroading. Be sure they are clear on that. Statisticlly, the kids are probably safer on your average trail than on the highway to get there!

Good luck.

Why don't you point out to this jack ass judge that your kids are in more danger driving down any freaking hwy in the western hemisphere than they are on a vehicle with a full roll cage on a trail. Tell him if he want's to keep the kids off the trail that you want to keep the kids off the street and make your exbitch home school and walk them everywhere.
Hell I worry more about the road then the trail. I can't control some jack ass driving into the side of me at 70 mph on the hwy. I can have the kids get out of the vehicle when it's going to get harry at 2mph crawling a boulder.
I cannot belive this is even an issue that demands the courts attention.
Good luck with it guy!

Here's a couple from my website. If you look carefully, you can see both my 3 yr old and my 11 yr old are in the jeep in both pics. http://www.jeeptech.com/oliver/Trips/HackettGulch/images2/Flexing%20with%20the%20kids.jpg

http://www.jeeptech.com/oliver/Trips/HackettGulch/images2/Climbing%20up%20Longwater.jpg

Most of fourwheeling is just basically driving over bumpy roads, how dangerous is that? When it comes to the an obstacle that might flop me, I have the kids get out and watch from a safe position. Like someone else said, it's probably safer on the trail than on the highway to get to the trail.

This thread could be considered proof. Call the judge and see if he has a computer (he should) point him to this thread. He will see very quickly that 4wheeling is a great sport for the whole family.

I have a little boy on the way (sept 17th) . I can't wait to get him out working on trucks and checking out the landscape.

Man, that is the most fawked up thing I've ever heard and, well, see sig. Anyway, I'll take pics of shitloads of kids in trucks this weekend on the beach. Pretty damn tame. Also, if you want any written statement from me about my wheeling experience with my dad when i was growing up, just say the word. That judge is freakin' retarded. Maybe you should sue the state just to make a point. There's probably some crackpot lawyer out there that would love to stir the pot a bit.

Check out the Southern Four Wheel Drive Association's web page (http://www.sfwda.org/pictures/index.html) for some good pics. The SFWDA emphasizes family wheeling. The Dixie Run, SFWDA's biggest fund raiser, has a lot of kid-friendly events. You can also find some good mild-wheeling there too.

if you look REAL hard you can see Camo's kid riding along in the back just having the time of his life...

How about some folks posting pictures with all the kids off to the side of the trail watching.
Kid standing with dad in the back ground.
http://www.gbr4wd.com/TrailRuns/Picture%20on%20the%20month/richmtn.jpg
Kids out of truck as truck comes up rut
http://www.gbr4wd.com/TrailRuns/Mayrun/Dscn1293.jpg
Another
http://www.gbr4wd.com/TrailRuns/Mayrun/John0004.jpg

Can't get more of a family picture than this.

Way

Most judges have no clue about most of the things that they rule on. That is why it would be GREAT for him to visit this thread of even the Rocky Mountian Binders page ~ www.dandcextreme.com/club (http://www.dandcextreme.com/club). I guess it makes them impartial to a particular side.

Its tragic that a judge would rule out all 4x4'n at the word of one man. My son, then 2 yrs old ~ http://kronos3.konnections.com/ih/rmb/trailpics/longwater00/14.jpg ~ loved the trip. We brought our dog and joined our Family Centered 4x4 club up one of the hardest trails in a particular system...yes, it was lame, but it was a fun trip with good friends. We stopped for lunch and one family brought a bone stock IHC Travellal on 31's.
http://kronos3.konnections.com/ih/rmb/trailpics/longwater00/15.jpg

The biggest thing you could do to win over the judge is to write a letter to him, include this thread's URL, put in the RMB's website (above), print and attach some of the pictures posted ~ and send it to him ~ via US mail. I doubt the judge will give adequate time to this in the middle of court proceedings...he may ~ however ~ give it some thought and research in his chambers, EXPECIALLY if you take the time and write him.

Writing him will also show him that your taking a reasonable/responsible approach to insure he knows that the safety of your children are taken seriously when you go wheelin.

thanks for all the help and support I am going to print up this page and give it to the judge (she) and see what she has to say. I will also get some info from the Dr. and submit it to. I would like to go do some wheelin with you all some time soon.

Thanks ROCHOG:rasta:

Whats safer than a rollcage? :D

Maybe you could take the judge out for a field trip and show him/her what it's all about.

Fred

Hey Grim Reaper, what trail is that with the cherokee pic? Its not the Globe inBlowing Rock NC is it?

Surely there are staticics on injuries treated at hospitals....

Its very rare for someone 4wheeling to get hurt -vs- someone riding atv's , car crashes... kids hurt riding their bicycles, skateboards, playing sports etc...

I think hard numbers will be more persuasive than anything else..

Here is one, I wish I had more.

http://www.jeepwrangler.info/Dana/Shaylee/Chandler/Images/Mini/ShayleeandAshley_3.jpg (http://www.jeepwrangler.info/Dana/Shaylee/Chandler/Images/ShayleeandAshley_3.jpg)

Oh yeah and scaring the shit out of your kids is a GOOD THING!

http://www.jeepwrangler.info/Dana/Shaylee/Chandler/Images/Mini/Shaylee_repelling_1.jpg (http://www.jeepwrangler.info/Dana/Shaylee/Chandler/Images/Shaylee_repelling_1.jpg)

Click it and it will enlarge where you can print them off if need be, I will try and dig up some more I now I have more with kids in Jeeps.

That is ridiculous. First off every activity has inherent dangers that accompany it, from taking a shower to yard work and 4wheeling. I forget the exact statistic but don't most accidents and deaths occur within a 1/4 mile of one's home? It's how you approach what you are doing that makes it safe. Rollcages, seatbelts, and general intelligence make 4wheeling a safe sport. Like others have said if it gets hairy the safest thing to do is have your passengers get out and walk it regardless of if they're kids or adults. I don't know the your exact situation but it sounds like someone is being petty, and trying to take away from your time with your boys any way they can! I say grow up, realize that there are dangers in everything in life and all we can do is to try to minimize these dangers in every way possible, (and in 4wheeling I think we do a unbelievable job at this) and go on with life!:usa:

If you have a good attorney, he would be all over this pretty easily. The sheriff, or whom ever that was that made this statement, does not make it fact. Its his OPINION.

Roller-skating at a rink, supervised by adults is considered to be safe. A kid out on his own, riding rails down huge flights of stairs isn't. BMX bike racing is considered to be safe, but kids out jumping those same flights of stairs and landing in the street isn't. Your not handing the keys to your rig to your children and sending them out on their own. They are being supervised, and are enjoying quality time one on one with their father.

Are they assuming that you would act irresponsible and put your kids life in danger during one of these activities? They have nothing to base this on, and it wont hold water. Have your attorney get the statistics on how dangerous softball, football, and basket ball are. You will be amazed at how many kids are injured, some severely, just participating in school sports. And lets not leave out amusement parks. Look at what rides we put our kids on. Ever watch those special programs on how dangerous amusement parks are? They have expert's come on those shows and document how much risk is involved in riding these rides. Should we now assume that all of these parents of these kids are somehow unfit to be parents? Simply because this expert says its dangerous, you can now be an unfit parent if you take a drip to Disney World? Is Division of Family Services going to set up at the entrance to the park, and cite each parent for endangering the life of a child?

You can see how quickly things can get out of control if you try to remove every single minuscule risk that a child, or for that matter a person could be exposed to.

Ive noticed that in situations like this, its a tuff sell to show someone how safe your activity is, but its much easier to show the risks we take as parents letting our children participate in normal school sports and activities, and trips to Disney World.

If a child is safe at Disney World buckled up in a ride that is twisting and spinning and looping and dropping them several hundred feet at a time, at speeds exceeding 70mph and its legal and safe for them to do it, then it certainly must be safe for a child to be seat belted in a vehicle with their father, slowly driving down an offroad trail, enjoying nature, and creating memories they will enjoy for a lifetime.

Jim

Somebody might have some pics from runs that take DISABLED kids on trails. Hell, maybe there should be a run that takes mentally disabled judges (and sheriffs) out too!!!

I believe the Sacramento Bee (newspaper) has run articles that cover such events.

thanks for the good ideas. Keep them coming:rasta:

check out the Camp Jeep pic's at http://www.jeep.com they always show families wheelin' with the young un's.
And 'Good Luck' with you prob. We all know that wheelin' parents are the best parents! I've got some great memories of wheelin with my dad about 30 years ago!
here's the camp jeep link...http://www.jeep.com/campjeep/index.html?tsrc=home&tgrp=promo7&tname=campjeep

Hey Rochog, I met you out at Hollister on the 15th, I was the kid with the spiked hair and the Red Tahoe. :D My parents are goin through a divorce too, I know how much it sucks. My dad has taken me and my sis wheelin' since before I can remember...the first time I was on the Rubicon I was in my childseat. I'm 19 now and still havin' fun. You can see a bunch of our old pics at http://my72fj40.tripod.com/ We have even taken the Jr. High group at our church out to Hollister. If ya need any help or anything, just let me know...be glad to help out any way I can.

These are from 6-15-02

He's two years old and completley understands that "Real Jeeps" have flat fenters. :D ;)

http://www.pirate4x4.com/glenn2/4th2000/4julz2.jpg

Oh come on this is rediculous... We always take our kids out on the trail. The whole reason I bought an XJ and got rid of the CJ-5 was so that my 6 month old son could ride with us... Now he's 3 and she's 1 1/2... Here's a few pics of our Father's Day weekend in Attica, IN with the kids... They loved it!!!

http://www.mrjt.org/albums/generated/Attica_Fathers_Day_2002/2_G_0020__scaled_512.jpg
http://www.mrjt.org/albums/generated/Attica_Fathers_Day_2002/IMG_0008__scaled_512.jpg
http://www.mrjt.org/albums/generated/Attica_Fathers_Day_2002/IMG_0004__scaled_512.jpg
http://www.mrjt.org/albums/generated/Attica_Fathers_Day_2002/IMG_0012__scaled_512.jpg

After we got back to the campsite, he tried immitating everything we had done in his Power Wheels Jeep!!!

If you need any other pics like this, I have a ton of them so just email me at jjkee@hardcore4wd.com and I'll dig some other ones up and send them over...


Jeremy

Originally posted by punkskalar
Hey Grim Reaper, what trail is that with the cherokee pic? Its not the Globe inBlowing Rock NC is it?
Nope that's the Rut trail up a place calle Bell Mountain. The picture of the the trucks on the top are the same place. It's a old marble quary from way back. It's near Young Harris GA.

Good luck!

ttt for the judge