Just picked them up today.. Brodix Track 1's 2.08/1.6 valves, 215 cc intake runners.... time to make my SBC 415 talk!

http://www.tpijeep.com/brodixhd_001.jpg

http://www.tpijeep.com/brodixhd_003.jpg

Hopefully the aluminium heads will help with my pinging problem... :flipoff2:

How much did that set you back??

Very nice. They sure are pretty. Nothing as good looking as a head with no space in between the valves!

:eek: :rasta: :smokin:

Very cool... I'm building a 383 now and was thinking of running those; ended up with World Motowns.

I'm assuming from your name that your running a TPI setup with that motor? if so, what kind of power are you expecting, and what all have you done to your intake? I'm looking at swapping in a TPI 305 out of a camaro into my Toy, and I want more power than they come with stock. I'd be interested in hearing what you've done. :usa:

Nice heads, hope they work out for you.

SMALL block!!! :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: Chebby!

Originally posted by Old Scout
SMALL block!!! :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: Chebby!

You Scoot guys are all the same... :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :rolleyes:

2.08:eek:

Thems look nice.

TPIJeep...
what do you estimate your power to be after the new heads?

and in your opinion, do you think the 415 was worth any extra trouble over a similarly set up 383?
~John

Those look sweet. What are your projected engine outputs?

Edit: what he said

My YJ has a stroker 5.7 TPI with trick flow aluminum heads, mild cam, and 1000 cfm throttle body. It puts out a little bit too much power for rock crawling.:eek:

I'm looking at swapping in a TPI 305 out of a camaro into my Toy, and I want more power than they come with stock. I'd be interested in hearing what you've done

Leave it stock. ;)

what are the rest of the engine specs? Estimated power? Cost of heads? I'm planning a 400 or 377 engine buildup in a year or two for a super secret project :D

Originally posted by JohnBuuu
TPIJeep...
what do you estimate your power to be after the new heads?

and in your opinion, do you think the 415 was worth any extra trouble over a similarly set up 383?
~John

John,

I would have to answer that question Yes and NO! There is no subsitute for cubic inches but the 415 is one of those " Hit a brick wall in every turn type of engines"

Here is how it is made, its a 400 Small block bored .030 over, its the 400 crank offset ground to give me an extra .125" of stroke, the rod journals are milled down to early model 327 rod journal size, so I used a stock set of small journal 327 rods. The pistons are ROSS custom forged pistons.

Here is where the problem begins, big displacement, small cc heads, so I have been fighting a compression ratio problem with the TPI setup. This is why I went with the aluminium heads, they are a little more forgiving and may correct my pinging problem.

My plan is to go with a Accel DFI unit that will allow me to custom tailor the EFI to this engine, I plan on running a solid roller camshaft in the 268/274 .522/.564 lift range which should put out in the ballpark range of 525 ft/lbs at 2500 and 420 hp at 4500. Which in my opinion will be all useable in my rockcrawling adventures with my 98:1 crawl.

So for simplicity John, I would build a 383, but I do not regret my 415, so far so good, I am liking it!

thanks for the reply!
ideally, im shooting for about 400hp/500ft lbs from a 383.
i want to use the TPI setup, and ill probably pick up the edelbrok runners and lower intake for it. then i was just gonna get a 383 short block, add some air flow research heads,all the other little odds and ends, and be done with it.
i suppose its a broad question, but you seem to have a decent bit of experience with stroker chevys. do you think im on the right track with my plans? im shooting for a fairly flat power curve. the power doesnt have to be all low end, as long as i have a good bit of power down low...say about 300hp by 3000rpms.
anyways..tell me your thoughts.
~John

The only problem I see with building an expensive high HP engine for Rockcrawling, is the fact that they are constantly being starved for oil by running on extreme angles for long periods of time. The fact that they are occasionaly asked to be reved with no oil pressure as you try to right the vehicle, under its own power after a rollover.

I knda like the idea that I can go to a junkyard anywhere pick up another donor from a Mustang for about $750, and flow match the stock heads to the stock manifold, cam it, use all of my bolt on performance parts, and have strong275/300 HP engine swapped over the weekend.

Dont get me wrong, I am one of the most apt drivers youll find, to got to the throttle when I am trying to get uphill, so I love a well built engine in an off road rig as much or more than the next guy. I really respect the power potential of SBC and stroked SBC engines. I just now that I would not be willing to treat one as brutal as I am willing to treat my cheap stock mills, if I need to. And I get very impressive amounts of instant on power when I light the fuse.

I personaly look at the engine as a component, if I trash it while wheeling, I buy another used one with as low mileage as i can find, swap it in and throw the old one away. Hell I could replace an engine for probably cheaper than I could replace an damaged locker.

Just my opinion.

I drive a zuk, so no, I don't. :flipoff2:

Originally posted by H8monday
The only problem I see with building an expensive high HP engine for Rockcrawling, is the fact that they are constantly being starved for oil by running on extreme angles for long periods of time. The fact that they are occasionaly asked to be reved with no oil pressure as you try to right the vehicle, under its own power after a rollover.

I knda like the idea that I can go to a junkyard anywhere pick up another donor from a Mustang for about $750, and flow match the stock heads to the stock manifold, cam it, use all of my bolt on performance parts, and have strong275/300 HP engine swapped over the weekend.

Dont get me wrong, I am one of the most apt drivers youll find, to got to the throttle when I am trying to get uphill, so I love a well built engine in an off road rig as much or more than the next guy. I really respect the power potential of SBC and stroked SBC engines. I just now that I would not be willing to treat one as brutal as I am willing to treat my cheap stock mills, if I need to. And I get very impressive amounts of instant on power when I light the fuse.

I personaly look at the engine as a component, if I trash it while wheeling, I buy another used one with as low mileage as i can find, swap it in and throw the old one away. Hell I could replace an engine for probably cheaper than I could replace an damaged locker.

Just my opinion.
agreed completely. however, keep in mind, a short block chevy stroker isnt going to be overly expensive to find, if you do mess up your engine.
and ill be honest, my xj is a daily driver, and i want the power more for the street than the trail. i have to be able to get out of my own way. if it was a trail only rig, id prbably just leave the 4.0 in.
i do like the 5.0s though.
~John

great heads but
isnt the airflow bottleneck the TPI intake manifold?
2.08 intake valve should be great for low end torque???

Originally posted by H8monday
The only problem I see with building an expensive high HP engine for Rockcrawling, is the fact that they are constantly being starved for oil by running on extreme angles for long periods of time.

Jeff, keep in mind though that TPI resides in Lousiana. I have never been there but I assume there isn't a whole lot of extreme angle rockcrawling going on.

-Todd

I am totally into the cheap power. My favorite(maybe because it is what I am using in my buggy) is the Cadillac 472/500 . I have a 500. The junkyards around me have sooo many of these engines that it is great. I picked mine up in decent running condition for $250 with any of the engine compartment parts that I wanted. I know of around 20 more of the same engines ,in the area, that I could get for the same $250 price.

I really dont have any money, so this engine is working out great for me. I have ~400hp and 550ft# at very little cost, and the engine only weighs 40 or so pounds more than a small block 350.
For now the engine remains stock, but as money allows, I would like to go to a fuel injection of some type, and eventually go to some smooth flowing aluminum heads. But for now the power to $$ ratio is great.

Sean

TDW,

Your right, I have to drive to to find extreme angles, but with a 8 quart DEEP sump pan it is very rare that I lose oil pressure, I have done it on steep declines, but I hold full pressure standing vertical or laid on the side, to combat the loss going down hill I plan on a 3 quart accumulator tank, which should buy me some time. The engine runs heat treated race bearings so they can take some abuse.

MJ,

The TPI stock flows about 660 cfm, so that will hold me to around 4000-4500 before it begins to limit my power, but I rarely see over 5000 and if I do its for just a second.

John,

I think your horsepower goals are doable with a 383, but getting the bigger intake and throttle body will not help, intake velocity builds torque, so sticking with smaller runners will help, and for building torque DO NOT get the siamesed runners... the bigger throttle body will help you at the higher RPM's only.

To build that kind of LOW end torque you and I want I think your going to need to look at a hydraulic or mechanical roller cam with lots of lift and short duration, I am going to swap in a mech roller with somewhere around 265 duration and 550 lift. Plus to fight the pinging and my 10:45 CR I am going to use a Accel DFI programmable ECM to make this sucker work... With my custom burnt PROM in the stock ECM I am getting a ping and just found aluminium specks on my plugs.. So try and keep your CI under 9.5:1. Build your engine with Clevite Nascar Race bearings and get an oil accumlator. Forged pistons for sure and 6" rods build more torque and last longer...

Enjoy, let me know if I can be more help..

:D

and the 2.08 intake valve in the Brodies are for under 4000 rpm power?
seems to me that you have bought way more cylinder head then you need.
still fawkin cool heads though

I couldn't agree more with the use of an accumulator tank. It's really nice to have that little bit of insurance when the rubber side tries to reach for the sky. Pretty cheap compared to the $ and hassle of swapping out an engine 'cause you couldn't shut it down fast enough. Just my $.02.

Originally posted by mj
and the 2.08 intake valve in the Brodies are for under 4000 rpm power?
seems to me that you have bought way more cylinder head then you need.
still fawkin cool heads though

Quite possible, but I was in the market of a set of Aluminium heads to combat my pinging problem and I got these dudes for 500 less then they retail for in Jegs.. :D

I am not complaining...!

Originally posted by TPIJeep


I plan on running a solid roller camshaft in the 268/274 .522/.564 lift range which should put out in the ballpark range of 525 ft/lbs at 2500 and 420 hp at 4500.

W/O looking at it much harder, those cam specs don't seem to add up to the kind of HP range you're talking about. Should be significantly higher output, but at significantly higher RPM.

I've got a 234/244, .488/.510 hydraulic cam in my 408" SBC & my rev limiter is set at 6,400. Idle is a rumpety rumpety 1,100 & peak power comes on between 5,500 & 6 grand. I've got kinda junky heads, but with the right setup, I should be in the neighborhood of 475HP with this shortblock & a 750cfm carb.

You're talking about a much hotter cam & even wilder heads than what I need to get to 475. That's not lot of lift for a solid cam, but 268/274 is a bunch of duration, probably won't make much power below 3,500 & should zing to 7 grand pretty easily.

TEX

I should be in the neighborhood of 475HP

but really have no clue as to what it will actually pull

Tex, I think what he's posted is seat to seat duration and you're looking at duration @ 0.050" - correct me if I'm wrong. Multiply or divide by 0.85 to convert, but only for a flat-tappet cam. He's talking solid roller, which will have a MUCH steeper ramp. First, everyone needs to use the same coordinate system to compare specs.

IMHO duration at 0.050" is only useful when you're into big enough cams at high enough speed that the flow under 0.050" really is negligible - and this sort of duration is on the order of 330 degrees and 4000+ RPM. For most 4x4 engines the airflow under 0.050" lift really does contribute. It's unfortuante that a measurement convention has been considered a standard for comparison so far outside the range in which it's assumptions are really valid.

Originally posted by mj


but really have no clue as to what it will actually pull

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say "no clue". The exact (carb/head/intake/header) combo I'm describing is documented at 420HP on an engine with 53 fewer cubes & a point less compression. So, 475 is actually a pretty conservative estimate were I to apply all the goodies to my shortblock ;)

And yeah, I'm talking .050 which is the only way I talk cams anymore. Guess I sorta assumed someone with a solid cam would be doing the same. The "advertised" duration on my 234/244 cam is 308/320.

TEX

The cam specs I am using are seat to seat duration, we are tossing up alot of ideas at the moment, it looks like I will have to run a Holley Commander 950 ECM or a Accel DFI to tame these heads and whatever cam I choose to work with the tuned port injection.

Sorta shying away from the mechanical roller and thinking about a solid lift cam. I have heard stories about broken lifters due to incorrect valve lash, and really don't like the profiles available for a hydro roller. So everything is in the works, just want to build hella torque on the low end..



:D