With the Forest Service releasing the final Draft from the Route Designation process on the 20th, I think it is VERY important to create a list of routes and campsites that we want to fight for. This could act as a "checklist" when the map comes out.

While we are not sure of exactly WHAT is going to be closed down, we need to compile a list in order to make certain that we cover all of our bases. I do not want to lose a trail or campsite becuase we had forgotten to check that route when the draft comes out.

ALSO...if everyone can post the routes and campsites that are important to them, WE CAN ALL ARUGUE FOR IT. The more responses the Forest Service gets for a single route, the chances MAY be greater that it will remain open. (hopefully)

If you scatch my back and argue for my campsites and routes that I use on Silverfork, I will scratch your back and fight for your routes...

here is the link to the maps if you need it:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/projects/route/alternatives/index.shtml

PLEASE POST YOUR REGULAR ROUTES AND CAMPSITES IN THIS THREAD.

I WILL COMPILE THE LIST AND FORWARD IT TO AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE

INCLUDE THE FS ROUTE # IF POSSIBLE

REMEMBER TO INCLUDE REASONS WHY THAT ROUTE SHOULD REMAIN OPEN

IMPORTANT: ALSO LOOK AT THE MAP KEY, SOME ROUTES HAVE BEEN RE-DESIGNATED FOR LICENCED VEHICLES ONLY! NOT GREEN STICKERS! JUST BECUASE A ROAD IS DIRT DOES NOT MEAN GREEN STICKERS WILL BE ALLOWED AFTER ROUTE DEZ!

I am still going over my regular area that I camp and wheel in for routes, I will post that later, but here's some of the bigger ones from other areas of the forest:

Major spur routes or portions of the 'Con on the chopping block:
* Old True Sluice
* long bypass north of Little Sluice, feeds into Thousand Dollar Hill
* bypasses near Devil's Postpile
* spur routes near Buck Island, especially below the dam
* McKinstry access to Ellis Creek

Barret Lake Trail

Strawberry Trail

I still need to check around Deer Creek Trail (or Deer Valley, whatever you call it. I have not run that one for years)

One more thing....

Should we should keep this list private? What are the odds the "other" side is reading this board?

Great idea -- I like the idea of having a checklist against which to work. I elicited letters from my club members a year or so ago, and having a list for them would help. It allows me to pre-write paragraphs that they can pick and choose above their signature block.

You have the Rubicon concerns nailed down pretty well, and Barret and Strawberry are great trails, as well, together allowing a wide range of experiences within the Eldorado.

I still need to check the maps to see how USFS plans to work the Capp's Crossing area, as well as Deer Valley, down by Blue Lakes.

As for privacy, well, yes, the anti-access closurists do frequent these forums, but I don't think they can do much worse to us than they already have done.

Randii

I feel very helpless when it comes to this effort. I never had a parent take me anywhere to go camping, I started 15 years ago and now tend to frequent the same places over and over. I ride dirtbikes and the places I tend to ride have designated camping areas or I camp in areas that are on the side of the road (but not too many). I feel helpless because I don't know where there are 25 kick ass places I need to fight for. I feel like the places I tend to go now are already large esstablished camp grounds or I have no way to find them on a map. The places I go and ride/wheel are:

Stonyford (Davis Flats)
Clear Creek (Oak Flat)
Middle Creek (Penny Pines & Middle Creek camp)
Pi Pi / Elkins Flat
Forest Hill
Rubicon
Fordyce
Johnson Valley
Hollister Hills

By looking at the places I tend to visit more frequently you can see I don't do much back country stuff. I do go and visit many more places than this but I visit them every few years. Is this the kind of info you are looking for or do you have some examples I can look at?

JW

I agree with Randii that there is no sense hiding it from the other side, they already want it all closed.

I think we need to get this information into an Excel spreadsheet, that way when some of us have many roads we can just add to the sheet. Should have road number, road name, and comment we want given for it remaining open such as:

9N12B, Spicer Shelf, excellent end of road dispersed camping

Deer Valley is on all alternatives except E, on that it goes half way to Highway 4 and then ends

FYI as to how the opposition is approaching the process:

http://www.friendsoftheinyo.org/web-content/pages/projects/projects.php
http://www.sierraconservation.org/OHV%20Route%20Designation%20Primer%20for%20Preserv ationists.html

Great idea Kurt. I'm going to have to get back to studying the maps.
Any idea on how we should describe the "unawthorized/unclassified" routes?
I imagine if the road already has a number but is very important to us we should list it also or should I wait to see if those made it to the final draft?

Bryan

Great idea Kurt. I'm going to have to get back to studying the maps.
Any idea on how we should describe the "unawthorized/unclassified" routes?
I imagine if the road already has a number but is very important to us we should list it also or should I wait to see if those made it to the final draft?

Bryan

Use numbers if you can for now, print the section of the map and circle it. When the draft EIS is published, they will include "common names" for those that have them.

List everything you know about it and its location.

We are gathering a list together and will have it done soon.
Just as we are being asked to do this, the sierra wildlife conservation is also asking people to mark the routes they would like to see closed to ORV use.

http://www.sierraconservation.org/Help!.html

Deer Valley is on all alternatives except E, on that it goes half way to Highway 4 and then ends


I need to check the maps again, but does anyone know about the hell hole trail?

Hell Hole is on all the alternatives. I think the history of trail maintenence by the Capitol City Mountain Goats has payed off for them....and us.

Thank you CCMG!

FYI as to how the opposition is approaching the process:

http://www.friendsoftheinyo.org/web-content/pages/projects/projects.php
http://www.sierraconservation.org/OHV%20Route%20Designation%20Primer%20for%20Preserv ationists.html

Taken from the sierraconservation.org page:

Request Notice of and Attend the Public Meetings!!!

It is imperative that the Forest Service recognize that OHV Route Designation is an important issue to the non-OHV publics. The only way they can know this is if we make it unmistakably clear through letters, emails, and attending public meetings. Such meetings are historically dominated by the OHV folks. The Forest Service both wants and needs our presence at these meetings to help hold the line against the demands by the Blue Ribbon Coalition and its members for “no net loss of trails.” Get your friends together and make an appearance for the sake of the forest and yourselves. Identify yourself as a hiker, a birder, an equestrian, a mycologist or as just a traditional quiet forest recreationists. Don’t be afraid to make your own demands for protection of resources and quiet recreation.

:mad:

From the same site(sierraconservation.org )


The Good and the Bad
The new rules are an improvement in some respects, but weaker in other ways. The good news is that the Forest Service finally recognizes ORV damage on our National Forests is a huge problem. The bad news is that it doesn’t appear to be willing to take the bold steps needed to bring off road vehicles under control on our public lands.


§ One positive aspect of the national rule is that, because it specifies that only designated routes may be used by vehicles once designation is completed and maps are made available to the public, the cumbersome process of writing and adopting Forest Orders to close undesignated areas will no longer be necessary.


§ The new rule clearly identifies user-created routes as “unauthorized” as opposed to the more neutral term “unclassified,” as used in the old rule (36 CFR 212.1).


§ The final rule implies that temporary closure orders may remain in place for longer than the one year allowed under the old rules. Permanent closure would require site specific analysis (36 CFR 212.52)


§ One of the most positive changes in the rule is a requirement that the Forests consider their ability to maintain, administer and afford any system of routes designated for off road use. Significantly, the rule does not mention “enforce!” (36 CFR 212.55)


There are also some potentially harmful changes to the rules also; including:


§ The Purpose and Need statement in the new rule eliminates language from the Executive Orders that stress the need to ensure that off road vehicles are managed to protect resources, promote safety and minimize conflicts (36 CFR 212.50).


§ The rules allow Forests to designate routes from which hunters may travel cross country in ORVs to retrieve game and for dispersed camping. (36 CFR 212.51). This would allow route proliferation to continue and could substantially undermine the concept of vehicle travel only on designated routes. The key word here is “may” and California forests should all be encouraged NOT to use the exemption.


§ While the Executive Orders and previous regulations require closure of routes determined to be suffering considerable adverse affects until the damage is eliminated, the new rules use the terms eliminated or mitigated. In addition, the new rules remove the provision for considering information from the public when determining “considerable adverse affects” and strikes the requirement for annual monitoring (36 CFR 212.52(b)


The new rules, contrary to the Executive Orders they are supposed to implement, do not require designated routes to “minimize” impacts, but merely to consider the impact with the “objective of minimizing.”


§ There is no money being provided to forests to complete designation. Fortunately, in California , the OHV Commission is providing funding!

So, there you have it. Easy; get involved, get out in the forest, talk to the Forest Service staff, identify problem trails, tell the forest to only designate a system it can manage properly. We are early in the process and our strategy may evolve as circumstances warrant. For updates check the CSNC website at www.sierranevadaconservation.org.

With questions, email csnc@direcway.com.


Good luck, and thank you!

Just as we are being asked to do this, the sierra wildlife conservation is also asking people to mark the routes they would like to see closed to ORV use.
The lousy thing about that is that THEY have a punch list for trails THEY want closed.... they just use the list of routes that will appear in the draft plan.

WE, on the other hand, had to put all of our cards on the table to get the roads included in the inventory, effectively queueing them up for THEM to shoot at. :mad3:

We need to fight hard for every trail listed in the table we'll find in the draft plan -- you can be sure that THEY will be sending comments into the USFS from the other side!

I'm expecting that OUR responses will have to be specific or be discounted, and I'm fully expecting that THEIR responses will be vague (I hear the motor from over the hill) and will be valued more heavily.

Randii (frustrated, but not quitting)

two words......


MAIL MERGE :D

Strawberry Trail
Long Canyon
Deer Valley
Rubicon
Hell Hole
Barney Riley

SO......I have traveled and enjoy just about every dirt road off of Iron Mountain Rd. since I was a kid, now I have to submit a reason why I enjoy each trail, split, turn, spur road (many of them split numerous times and are all numbered different) in order to possible enjoy that road/trail in the future?
Somehow that doesnt seem very fair.

Most are old mining roads that have been used for over a hundred years:confused:

The des. map is very confusing even to me and I have lived and played in these forest my entire life:shaking:

Well, lets start with:
Obviously every camping spot/bypass on the Rubicon
Camping spots at Buck Island Lake (all spur roads and camping spots)
Old sluce (or middle sluce)
McKinstry bypass
Barrett Lake Trail
Hell Hole Trail
Strawberry Trail
Park creek rd.
Blue Gouge Mine rd.
Ferrari Mill rd.
Pebble Canyon rd.
North South Rd.
Light Canyon Rd.


MANY MORE TO COME

FAWK, I feel like a damn Indian being forced to a reservation.....I was born and raised here in EDC.:mad3:

ENF ROUTE DESIGNATION PUBLIC MEETING SCHEDULE

7/24 Placerville 7-9pm- Marshall Building El Dorado County Fairgrounds, 100 Placerville Drive, Placerville, CA 95667.

7/25 Jackson 7-9pm Civic Center, 33 Broadway, Jackson, CA 95642.

7/26 Markleeville 7-9pm Turtle Rock Community Center, 17300 State Route 89, Markleeville, CA 96120

7/31 Folsom 7-9pm Lake Natomas Inn, 702 Gold Lake Drive, Folsom CA 95630.

8/2 Concord 7-9pm Pleasant Hill Recreation Center, 320 Civic Drive, Pleasant Hill, CA 94523.

BTT

I am currently working on a Route Designation FAQ to post as a sticky in land-use.

I believe that one reason there is so much apathy towards this is many people do not understand EXACTLY what is going on. We need something in Layman's terms that breaks it all down. I could see how people could be lost reading the ELDO National website, or even reading our posts...

Kurtulais, you wanna go to the Pleasant Hill meeting? I have the day off (hell I have more than that off), so Iwas thinking about shooting out there in the early AM. You game?

Dima

Kurtulais, you wanna go to the Pleasant Hill meeting? I have the day off (hell I have more than that off), so Iwas thinking about shooting out there in the early AM. You game?

Dima

LOL!! I wish I could...

Rick and I set the whole Fawkin Bay Area meeting up with the forest service to get the word out down here in the Bay Area, then without asking us for a date, they set their own.

On that night Rick and I are on the Jeep Jambo on the 'Con passing out route Designation flyers

LOL!! I wish I could...

Rick and I set the whole Fawkin Bay Area meeting up with the forest service to get the word out down here in the Bay Area, then without asking us for a date, they set their own.

On that night Rick and I are on the Jeep Jambo on the 'Con passing out route Designation flyers

Isn't that a Thursday morning?

E-mail me the flyers. Iwill see if I can run by some shops out in the area and post them up in there.

Dima

Isn't that a Thursday morning?

E-mail me the flyers. Iwill see if I can run by some shops out in the area and post them up in there.

Dima

7-9PM.. usually means nitetime..

Would it be possible to take out a large add in the gold panner (weekly free paper in El Do Co that just about everyone reads) to spread the word?

My group is having a letter writing party for a trail in Mendocino National Forest next week & I would like to include letters for Eldo as well.

We plan on writing about Barret (easy to explain in a letter). We also love camping at Buck & have used the trails in the area to access campsites. How do you explain that in a letter? Do we need to highlight each trail or simply state that we wish to keep all disperesed campsites & trails that lead to them open.

14N05 needs to continue

14N34B needs to be returned to the map.

NSRELD63K is a County Road. Old Sluice
NSRELD63Ka
NSRELD63Kb

NSRELD147N is Gatekeeper. The road on the map is the bypass we blocked on June 30th.

14N06 needs to connect to 14N07 for fire escape safety.

River access for camping opposite NSR1408A needs to go to the bottom of the hill.

I suck at maps and I don't know the numbers. Can somebody give me the rd numbers for Strawberry and Long Canyon? Are they on "D"?

I suck at maps and I don't know the numbers. Can somebody give me the rd numbers for Strawberry and Long Canyon? Are they on "D"?


I will double check those later tonight for you. I got some drinkin to do first..

I suck at maps and I don't know the numbers. Can somebody give me the rd numbers for Strawberry and Long Canyon? Are they on "D"?

Which road on Long Canyon? It is really a long canyon. I did notice the connectors are mostly there. The spurs are all gone and if you went to Jerry canyon that is gone.

The sections that run from Silver Fork over to Packsaddle Pass. Also the spur that runs over to Mushroom Rock.

I see Strawberry is on the list but it's marked in BLUE which concerns me a little. It's our club's adopt-a-trail.

we need to start a spreadsheet of all these roads we want to comment on. the appendix F on the DEIS shows the status of all roads for Alternative D, need to get this into an Excel spreadsheet, there are over 2000 roads, and most are being closed....any body know how to get a pdf document into and excel spreadsheet?....I will buy you the first six beers

we need to start a spreadsheet of all these roads we want to comment on. the appendix F on the DEIS shows the status of all roads for Alternative D, need to get this into an Excel spreadsheet, there are over 2000 roads, and most are being closed....any body know how to get a pdf document into and excel spreadsheet?....I will buy you the first six beers
Rick -- call me an let me know what you want. I can geek this into any form we need, especially if there is beer involved. :p

Randii

Pardoes - 09N82, on alternative "D"
Deer Valley - 09N83, on alternative "D"

Randii, all the beer you want! if you can get apendix F for Alt D in a Excel spreadsheet

Deer Valley - 09N83, on alternative "D"

Deer Valley looks OK,

BUT the water crossings over Blue Creek and Deer Creek are highlighted in yellow....

If you can't cross the creeks then the trail is closed. There is no way around them.

Johnny
Concord Ca.

http://www.friendsoftheinyo.org/web-content/pages/projects/projects.php
http://www.sierraconservation.org/OHV%20Route%20Designation%20Primer%20for%20Preserv ationists.html

From the link:
"The danger, of course, is that the inventoried routes are being given temporary legitimacy and this is likely to result in requiring opponents of any given inventoried route to show why it should not be permanently designated, rather than requiring trail advocates to prove a route is acceptable. "

It looks I have to prove to everybody I wont damage anything by breathing in, and a person who wants to suffocate me does not have to state the damage I might cause. Back to USSR.

If you can't cross the creeks then the trail is closed. There is no way around them.

"The danger, of course, is that the inventoried routes are being given temporary legitimacy and this is likely to result in requiring opponents of any given inventoried route to show why it should not be permanently designated, rather than requiring trail advocates to prove a route is acceptable. "


WRT creek crossings, ofer the mitigation option to harden the crossing or construct a bridge.

Above all, your rebuttal comments should address the value of the recreation opportunity lost....