I was camping up at Indian Springs campground this past weekend (across the street from the trailhead and the forest service did come up and post a no vehicles or any type of fire on the trails at Indian Springs. It is open for hiking only. In fact they were going to chain it so that you couldn't drive to the staging area even as there were a couple of vehicles in that far. They were calling it phase 2 I guess and it may last for the season.:(

Phase 2? Did you by any chance get some names of the FS personel that were telling you this? I'd like to check the "Phase 2" thing out.

Phase 2? Did you by any chance get some names of the FS personel that were telling you this? I'd like to check the "Phase 2" thing out.

Taken from here:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/tahoe/news/07_news_releases/07_july_04_Fire%20Rest_rationale.pdf

"TNF went into the first level of fire restrictions in early June and additional restrictions as conditions worsened on July 2."

The one that closed "trails" like Fordyce was apparently phase 2.
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/tahoe/documents/forest_orders/17_07_04_fire_restrictions.pdf

And yes, Moonshadow- the restrictions last "through the end of the official 2007 fire season."

This is so interesting.

The Angora Tahoe Fire has all but been officially been declaired that is was started by an 'illegal' campfire. Since this is not a 4 wheeling environment, it is being guessed that it was hiker, back packers, or party goers.
So the answer is to close the forest to internal combustion engines.
Yea, that works. Makes total sense to me.
If the soccer fans riot, do not let in any more baseball fans.

Leave the forest open to one of the groups that by all current information, was responsible for the fire.
If the fire danger is truly that high, which I do not believe it is, then why just close it to off roaders and let everyone else in.
Either it is dangerous, or it is not.
I have no doubt that there is a fire danger, but there almost always is. That is why in years past they have imposed fire restrictions and we could only usue camp stoves.

If you remember from other examples in the past. If it is a dry year - they can declair dry conditions and a fire danger. If is a wet year - they can declair excessive growth of vegitation because of the wet, and it is a fire danger.
I guess we can now all get a feel for what descrimination is all about. Because this is it, at its finest.

I had been planning a trip into Fordyce lake this weekend when I found out about it being closed. I called the Ranger Station for Tahoe Nat. Forest and was told that because of frire restrictions that any road/trail/area that they couldn't get a fire truck into was being closed. I know it isn't fun not being able to go into a place like that but I can understand their stand. After all, they need to protect these areas, not from responsible wheelers, but from those that have "illegal campfires" and such. I also know that the last time I was in at the lake there were a lot of firearms going off as well as a lot of illegal fireworks.
I know they have some huge 6X6 trucks (my shop works on them) that can go places but as far as getting into some of these areas I don't see them able to do it much.

Fordyce/Rattlesnake Road into Fordyce Lake is still open, you can still make your camping trip.

Is the Pierce OHV area (near Fordyce Trail) still open?

Is the Pierce OHV area (near Fordyce Trail) still open?

Apparently not if you can't even go into the staging area.:mad3::(

Is the Pierce OHV area (near Fordyce Trail) still open?

you are apparently missing something if you have not figured this out yet.

Apparently not if you can't even go into the staging area.:mad3::(
There are other ways to get in there besides going through the staging area. But do not do it, it is closed. This is all that is open "Prosser Pit area near Truckee; and the Sugar Pine OHV area north of Foresthill." I guess this means that Mammoth Bar on the American River is closed, that is in Placer County.

Fordyce/Rattlesnake Road into Fordyce Lake is still open, you can still make your camping trip.

So where is this road? It isn't the one from Cisco Grove is it?

What about the road that goes around the lake that the Boy Scout Camp is on. How far does that road go?

I went to run Fordyce this past weekend and I was unloading at the staging area when a female park range came up in her green chevy truck and ran me out and said the trail is closed to all OHV because we are a fire danger :flipoff2::mad3:

So where is this road? It isn't the one from Cisco Grove is it?

What about the road that goes around the lake that the Boy Scout Camp is on. How far does that road go?

Rattlesnake is the road that starts off to the right as you enter the Cisco Grove campground. It's right before you past their gate house.

Not sure about the other road you're' talking about.

Anybody?

The roads up there to Lake Sterling and Lola Montez lakes should all be open since they are forest service and private property roads. Only "trails" like Fordyce are closed. "Roads" are all open. There are lots of roads up there to explore around on. Dunno if this link will work...

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=cisco+grove,+ca&ie=UTF8&om=1&ll=39.352352,-120.456848&spn=0.120793,0.214233&z=13

So they are going to close the trail during the summer months with high fire hazards?

So they are going to close the trail during the summer months with high fire hazards?

The forest is ALWAYS a high fire danger..EVERY YEAR...it's California. I just can't believe how deep this level of anti-OHV goes...

the roads to lola montez, sterling, and fordyce lake are open. signal peak and the comitee or river crossing is closed. this is an eye witness account :D

Anyone know when or approximately when the fire season will end? When it does end will 4x4s again be allowed to traverse the Fordyce Trail?

its really hard to say... it changes every year :jeep:

In Canada they started doing these temporary fire closures in 2001. People didn't squeal too badly and now they have closed the entire area permanently.

This needs to be squashed asap.

Here is some of the Canada pics, and a little info

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=594568

According to the news (if you believe them) a few months ago they (Forestry Service) declaired the entire year a fire season. Due to a lack of rain for the past couple of years the FS said that every day of the year is a fire season, until rainfall returns to normal. So technically they can use this as a permanent closure, and close other trails eventually if rain doesn't start falling.

the roads to lola montez, sterling, and fordyce lake are open. signal peak and the comitee or river crossing is closed. this is an eye witness account :D

So you are saying you made it down to Fordyce lake without any hassles or going around any gates, ets..?

Fordyce/Rattlesnake Road into Fordyce Lake is still open, you can still make your camping trip.

Not totally true, I was there from Friday till today camped at Fordyce Lake. When we were leaving today I was talking to a ranger about the trail closure and she said there were reports of over 50 people on the Fordyce trail. I questioned her on this, and come to find out Fordyce Lake Rd. was/is closed! Everything after the Signal Peak turn off. There were signs facing off the Road but nothing for on the Road. She told me were were trespassing and she would have given us all tickets if she had seen us.

:mad3::mad3::mad3:

She did also admit that they (forestry service) are not clear on what is closed and what is open. Then said something along the lines of the 2nd phase of enforcement will start in the next week.


Ryan

This must be the same ranger woman who was down way past the Signal Peak turn off as 20 vehicles and 40 people helped the crashed quad rider get out to the helicopter. And where there were 40 more quad riders in the valley. CHP, Forest service, CDF and care flight and all of us were there. Why no tickets then? Ryan did you get her name?

Friendly reminder:

Please get names when speaking to FS representatives! Report them here and I will correspond with the FS about the information being given out. The forest service is pretty interested in the correct information getting out and will do something about it if misinformation is being dispensed to the public.

Thanks,

Bret

I don't see the big deal??? Seriously!

Around here the forest gets closed down to offroad travel during fire season. Typically starts in Late June/ early July and goes until Mid to Late August. And depending on how dry it gets will determine if they have to shut down the OHV areas. Sure I would like to be able to use teh forest year around however I please, but personally I think its a good thing since more fires are started by humans than nature around here. I know I would HATE to be the one that started a major (or even minor) forest fire!

Thats all good and fine but when it's only OHV users that get shut out and not the campers or back packers who may have been the group that started the Tahoe fire in the first place! I have issue with it.:mad3:

The big deal is that this is something that does NOT normally happen here, and adjacent forests have not seen the need to enact equivalently strict conditions either. Not even Eldorado NF where the Tahoe fire occured!

Yeah, it's dry, but I wonder...

Does anyone know of any incidents where vehicles have started fires on any outback/remote 4x4 trails?

I'm not talking about cigarettes, not campfires, nor any other activity NOT associated with this closure - just directly related to vehicles.

Yeah, it's dry, but I wonder...

Does anyone know of any incidents where vehicles have started fires on any outback/remote 4x4 trails?

I'm not talking about cigarettes, not campfires, nor any other activity NOT associated with this closure - just directly related to vehicles.


montana in 2000 and 2002 sparks from rocks hitting steel wheels were noted as the causes of at least 6 seperate spot fires. So it was claimed at the time......

There are other ways to get in there besides going through the staging area. But do not do it, it is closed. This is all that is open "Prosser Pit area near Truckee; and the Sugar Pine OHV area north of Foresthill." I guess this means that Mammoth Bar on the American River is closed, that is in Placer County.

Prosser Pits is on US Bureau of Reclamation land, and is operated by California State parks. It remains open alternate days to OHV use.

Yeah, it's dry, but I wonder...

Does anyone know of any incidents where vehicles have started fires on any outback/remote 4x4 trails?

I'm not talking about cigarettes, not campfires, nor any other activity NOT associated with this closure - just directly related to vehicles.

Yes, I do. It was about 15 years ago up on the Rubicon. I guy I knew (more of a friend of a friend) had a fuel leak at the Carb that ignited and nearly burned the rig to the ground. This started a small fire that cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $250k to extinguish. The owner of the rig was held liable for the fire and the cost to extinguish it.

There's also the issue if you break down on the trail....you can't weld anything due to the sparks!! But all in all, it's pretty darn rare that 4 wheelers start fires. It's always some lost campers or malicious kids or just plain stupid careless people. It sucks to single out motor vehicles which have the BEST chance of all to put out a fire should one start. You gotta figure that most rigs are equipped with fire extinguishes, water, air, and ways to get more water if necessary. I sure hope this is a temporary situation. If it weren't for 4x4's going up in there, the FS wouldn't be able to get to some of this stuff if they had to. Not to mention the extra plant, tree, grass growth. Keeping the trails active creates fire breaks IMO.

montana in 2000 and 2002 sparks from rocks hitting steel wheels were noted as the causes of at least 6 seperate spot fires. So it was claimed at the time......

Yes, I do. It was about 15 years ago up on the Rubicon. I guy I knew (more of a friend of a friend) had a fuel leak at the Carb that ignited and nearly burned the rig to the ground. This started a small fire that cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $250k to extinguish. The owner of the rig was held liable for the fire and the cost to extinguish it.

It makes sense to me that your friend was held responsible for the fire. I'd assume his auto insurance would cover it? What doesn't make sense is that they are punishing the rest of us for his (and others) accidents or mistakes or possible lack of maintenance.


So my EFI rig riding on aluminum wheels is probably far less likely to start a fire, but they still won't let me in because of what somebody else's rig might do.

It makes sense to me that your friend was held responsible for the fire. I'd assume his auto insurance would cover it? What doesn't make sense is that they are punishing the rest of us for his (and others) accidents or mistakes or possible lack of maintenance.

Yes, his insurance covered it. The only reason I even mentioned it was because, well, Scott asked. I think cars driving along Hwy 80 would have a much higher chance of causing a fire than an OHV would. This is sooo frustrating! I just don't see the logic:shaking:

Yes, and its VERY common for fires to be started along roadways, as I'm sure we've all seen. However, one arguement they have there is that there is generally fast/easy access for fire equipement and crews to knock them down...

I think the trail closure is to prevent people form doing an unofficial Sierra Trek gathering too. There is plenty of other BLM land and such that is still open for wheeling in the nearby areas. They know there are thousands of people wanting to come up an run this trail this year. They also know people will be running it regardless of the cancellation unless they physically shut the trail off. The Yuba river is lower than I have ever seen it up here. The fire dangers are real, and hikers and campers are not allowed to start any campfires. So assuming people followed the rules the next plausible ignition source is from a vehicle. A bad exhaust (cause no one ever reams out their cat, right?) carb problems or even bad wiring can cause quite a fire. There is plenty of Miners Misery up there (a plant that is as flammable as gasoline). All it takes is a heat source, not a spark to ignite it. I am just as disappointed as the rest of you about not being able to run fordyce for a while, but it is good to know the trees will still be there when I do get to run it again.

Yes, his insurance covered it. The only reason I even mentioned it was because, well, Scott asked. I think cars driving along Hwy 80 would have a much higher chance of causing a fire than an OHV would. This is sooo frustrating! I just don't see the logic:shaking:

Yep, that's why I asked. So out of everyone on this board people only know of a couple of incidents. So sure, while it COULD happen, it's extremely rare and isolated incidents, the probability of which is likely less than a lightning strike. The USFS would be better served to ban cigarettes than vehicles to help with fire danger!

I think RockWrangler had a good point about illegal camping and hikers @ Fordyce. I was camping again this weekend @ the actual legal campground where you can still have a fire as long as it is in an actual fire ring. I took my dog across to the staging area to go swimming and I just want to say do people not pay attention to any rules or regulations at all anymore (or the 5-6 big signs posted all over where you can't miss them)? I was coming back up the hill from the swimming hole and there right in front of me an illegal campfire was smoldering (which wasn't when I first got there), so I made a few trips back and forth to the river to get water to put the freakin thing out. I had to dig into the fire at least a foot to get all the hot embers to go out. That really pissed me off. I think if wheeling is banned right now but hikers are still allowed, then the forest rangers need to go in more often and make sure people ARE NOT having illegal fires. It ruins it for the people that are abiding by the rules. I don't get to wheel anymore, but that is one of my favorite places to go and I don't want to see it all lost due to some idiot that says screw the rules. Hiking, camping is awesome, but everyone should have to abide by the rules not just the people who want to wheel. Obviously the people that started that fire haven't seen any of the devestation of our forests that are gone, or just don't care (who really knows). People need to pay better attention to what is happening around us, and remember there are other people who enjoy the forest as much as they do!

I'm going to bring this back to the top.

What is the likelyhood of the trail being closed again for fear of fire?

It's most likely going to happen, in the next month and a half. That's just my guess.

so is it open right now or what this is the only trail i really want to go on this summer

I'm going to say NOT likely for a while at least.

New Forest Supervisor seems to be much more level headed. A really great guy.

I'm going to say NOT likely for a while at least.

New Forest Supervisor seems to be much more level headed. A really great guy.

I hope you're right.

Pretty sure it's still wet with some snow as well. Should be good for at least a little while.

The trail is open and yes it is wet. The trail still has snow and standing water so please tread lightly.

I'm going to say NOT likely for a while at least.

New Forest Supervisor seems to be much more level headed. A really great guy.


:smokin:

Yes, I do. It was about 15 years ago up on the Rubicon. I guy I knew (more of a friend of a friend) had a fuel leak at the Carb that ignited and nearly burned the rig to the ground. This started a small fire that cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $250k to extinguish. The owner of the rig was held liable for the fire and the cost to extinguish it.

Wasn't that Rip from 4 wheel parts? He was driving an early Bronco. Remember seeing pics of it at the Oakland store.

I asked the TNF rangers I correspond with about closures and as far as they know there aren't any discussions about them yet. As Jeff said it's still real wet up there.

That is not to say they the Fire Service won't be looking at it when it dries out. Hopefully they won't react the way they did last year partly because of the Angora fire. I'm trying to get some contact info for the Fire Service to talk to them about this.

I asked the TNF rangers I correspond with about closures and as far as they know there aren't any discussions about them yet. As Jeff said it's still real wet up there.

That is not to say they the Fire Service won't be looking at it when it dries out. Hopefully they won't react the way they did last year partly because of the Angora fire. I'm trying to get some contact info for the Fire Service to talk to them about this.

Thanks for the update.