lewd
07-13-2007, 02:57 AM
Taking a break from work, planning a "future" upgrade - thought i'd write down some notes to get some tech feedback - I know there was a similar thread 6 months or so back, but it was a bit messy without a good summary.
Options for momentary braking - i.e. ebrake, cutting brakes, etc, etc.
For this consideration, it will be on a '76 Scout II with ARB's, Dana 44's, twin stick Dana 20. Keeping in mind that nothing is final, and that the rig is growing slowly along with my abilities.
HAND OPERATED E-BRAKE (like a honda, etc)
** single for rear axle **
1- will work as an e-brake (obvious, not a theft deterrent)
2- can use to do front digs (need to dis-engage rear axle)
3- does not work with front brakes (stock front disk)
4- keeps the cable down low where it can be damaged in existing position
5- can be difficult to apply to a future upgraded rear (stock 44 rear now)
6- this adds redundancy, will work if hydraulic brakes fail
** dual, one per each rear wheel **
1- will work as an e-brake (obvious, not a theft deterrent)
2- can use to do pivoting at speed w/out stopping (run rear axle open, operate like a cutting brake)
3- does not work with front brakes (stock front disk)
4- keeps the cable down low where it can be damaged in existing position
5- can be difficult to apply to a future upgraded rear (stock 44 rear now)
6- this adds redundancy, will work if hydraulic brakes fail
CUTTING BRAKES
1- will only work as an e-brake with a custom ratcheting setup (not a theft deterrent)
2- can use to do pivoting at speed w/out stopping (run either, or both axles open, normal cutting brake operation) - could you really make use of locking the entire right side and power only the left side, for example?
3- can work with front or rear, per wheel or per axle (probably would not do per axle)
4- no more cable to rip off
5- easily applied to future axle changes
6- no redundancy, but ultimate flexibility
LINE LOCKS
1- can work as e-brake (many have concerns with bleed-off), can be hidden to use as a theft deterrent)
2- cannot use to do pivoting at speed, must stop to apply brakes before performing a dig or pivot
3- can work front or rear, per wheel or per axle
4- no more cable to rip off
5- easily applied to future axle changes
6- no redundancy
BALL VALVES
1- can work as e-brake, can be hidden to use as a theft deterrent
2- cannot use to do pivoting at speed, must stop to apply brakes before performing a dig or pivot
3- can work front or rear, per wheel or per axle (alot of tubing for per wheel - not practical)
4- no more cable to rip off
5- easily applied to future axle changes
6- no redundancy
Would this work??
- use two "over under" style cutting brakes side by side, orient same as my twin stick transfer case and ARB switches (left front, right rear)
- push both brakes forward to lock the right side, pull both back to lock the left side (or vise-versa), let the differential action power the other side to turn quickly as you punch the throttle
- draw back would be the ebrake setup - with a custom ratcheting setup, would likely only lock one side...or could use in conjunction with ball valve for this purpose.
I know the whole idea of cutting brakes doesn't ultimately apply to rock crawling conditions, unless... you where purposely running open to avoid bind-up and manually controlling which wheel received power (sounds like a lot of coordination)
Seems like a more all-around approach might be:
** cutting brakes for the rear (each wheel) and ball valve for the front (one for both wheels)
- use single ball valve on front wheels as an e-brake, and hidden for a theft deterrent
- use dual handle cutting brake to operate each rear wheel individually for turning (run axle open)
- use cutting brakes on rear as temporary braking leaving your feet to work the clutch and throttle (I currently use the other method of hand throttle and feet for brake and clutch)
CLARIFICATIONS:
- Avoiding the idea of rear-steer for manueverability
- Like to wheel all types of terrain
- I don't like the idea of a fully locked down rear while doing a front dig with a Dana 44
- Would like to utilize my ARB's to their full potential
- Would like to continue using Dana 44's for some time (won't change until
they become a problem)
Thoughts?
Options for momentary braking - i.e. ebrake, cutting brakes, etc, etc.
For this consideration, it will be on a '76 Scout II with ARB's, Dana 44's, twin stick Dana 20. Keeping in mind that nothing is final, and that the rig is growing slowly along with my abilities.
HAND OPERATED E-BRAKE (like a honda, etc)
** single for rear axle **
1- will work as an e-brake (obvious, not a theft deterrent)
2- can use to do front digs (need to dis-engage rear axle)
3- does not work with front brakes (stock front disk)
4- keeps the cable down low where it can be damaged in existing position
5- can be difficult to apply to a future upgraded rear (stock 44 rear now)
6- this adds redundancy, will work if hydraulic brakes fail
** dual, one per each rear wheel **
1- will work as an e-brake (obvious, not a theft deterrent)
2- can use to do pivoting at speed w/out stopping (run rear axle open, operate like a cutting brake)
3- does not work with front brakes (stock front disk)
4- keeps the cable down low where it can be damaged in existing position
5- can be difficult to apply to a future upgraded rear (stock 44 rear now)
6- this adds redundancy, will work if hydraulic brakes fail
CUTTING BRAKES
1- will only work as an e-brake with a custom ratcheting setup (not a theft deterrent)
2- can use to do pivoting at speed w/out stopping (run either, or both axles open, normal cutting brake operation) - could you really make use of locking the entire right side and power only the left side, for example?
3- can work with front or rear, per wheel or per axle (probably would not do per axle)
4- no more cable to rip off
5- easily applied to future axle changes
6- no redundancy, but ultimate flexibility
LINE LOCKS
1- can work as e-brake (many have concerns with bleed-off), can be hidden to use as a theft deterrent)
2- cannot use to do pivoting at speed, must stop to apply brakes before performing a dig or pivot
3- can work front or rear, per wheel or per axle
4- no more cable to rip off
5- easily applied to future axle changes
6- no redundancy
BALL VALVES
1- can work as e-brake, can be hidden to use as a theft deterrent
2- cannot use to do pivoting at speed, must stop to apply brakes before performing a dig or pivot
3- can work front or rear, per wheel or per axle (alot of tubing for per wheel - not practical)
4- no more cable to rip off
5- easily applied to future axle changes
6- no redundancy
Would this work??
- use two "over under" style cutting brakes side by side, orient same as my twin stick transfer case and ARB switches (left front, right rear)
- push both brakes forward to lock the right side, pull both back to lock the left side (or vise-versa), let the differential action power the other side to turn quickly as you punch the throttle
- draw back would be the ebrake setup - with a custom ratcheting setup, would likely only lock one side...or could use in conjunction with ball valve for this purpose.
I know the whole idea of cutting brakes doesn't ultimately apply to rock crawling conditions, unless... you where purposely running open to avoid bind-up and manually controlling which wheel received power (sounds like a lot of coordination)
Seems like a more all-around approach might be:
** cutting brakes for the rear (each wheel) and ball valve for the front (one for both wheels)
- use single ball valve on front wheels as an e-brake, and hidden for a theft deterrent
- use dual handle cutting brake to operate each rear wheel individually for turning (run axle open)
- use cutting brakes on rear as temporary braking leaving your feet to work the clutch and throttle (I currently use the other method of hand throttle and feet for brake and clutch)
CLARIFICATIONS:
- Avoiding the idea of rear-steer for manueverability
- Like to wheel all types of terrain
- I don't like the idea of a fully locked down rear while doing a front dig with a Dana 44
- Would like to utilize my ARB's to their full potential
- Would like to continue using Dana 44's for some time (won't change until
they become a problem)
Thoughts?