Hey Guys/Gals, we can not go at these battles alone, we need as many people as possible from EVERY user group.

Today I went to two motorcycle/ATV sales shops in Placerville and handed them a flyer that Kurtuleas has made here....http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=593194.
I also handed one to a guy next to me in traffic with a dirtbike in the bed of his truck, I handed some to the guys at the local Jeep dealer, ya see where im going with this?

They had no idea that this was happening and the many people "shopping" were very interested/upset as well. Both of these shops were right down the street from the El Dorado County FS building.


With the meetings for the EDC rout des. coming up in less than two weeks we need to try our best to spread the word.

So my challenge....
Print out as many fliers as possible and carry them with you in your vehicle, hand them out to every person or business you see that could be effected.

can someone please PM me the flyer in WORD format? Thanks

edit: I figured it out, now just need to run off copies

I tossed this out on a few bulletin boards that I frequent that have little to no involvement with ohv use but through their activities (fishing) can be severly impacted.

Just another user group that has no idea what is taking place.

Isnt that convenient.........:mad3:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/pro...te/index.shtml

Page Not FoundThe page you requested cannot be found. The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.




Please try the following:
If you typed the page address in the Address bar, make sure that it is spelled correctly.


Open the www.fs.fed.us home page and look for links to the information you want.


Use the navigation bar on the left to find the link you are looking for.


Click the Back button to try another link.


Enter a term in the search form to look for information on Forest Service Websites.

PROPS TO BEAR!!!!

I uploaded the file to the internet.

Mind you that I still need to change it since the draft has been released but it is still effective!!!!

If you need a copy click here:

http://www.kurtuleas.com/el_dorado_flyer.doc

Please pass it on to as many people as possible.

You realize that the link to the FS in my above post is the one in the flyers right?

It goes to an expired page...
If it is temporary then so be it but they might have moved it to another location on the website making all of the flyers printed so far no good.

You realize that the link to the FS in my above post is the one in the flyers right?

It goes to an expired page...
If it is temporary then so be it but they might have moved it to another location on the website making all of the flyers printed so far no good.

oops. :D

It DID work.

I'll change it.

I changed the link, but the flyer still needs a little more re-vamping. Still, it's effective in getting the word out...

OK,

I have updated the flyer with the newest info, corrected links and I added the two sample maps of the Silverfork area that I have posted here.

That would make it a two-sided flyer.

I still need to find a way to plug in the dates of the FS meetings.

Once again here is the link:

http://kurtuleas.com/el_dorado_flyer.doc

Outstanding work on this flyer.

We need more people doing things like this to help get the word out.

Overall, we need to change the impression that we have with the general public.
Some good Youtube videos of wheelers out there cleaning the trail, repairing the trail, and just helping people at different times of the year to change the perception we have.

Todd
Navy-Jeepster
United Four Wheel Drive Association
Interim Director of Environmental Affairs

I e-mailed the flyer to 5 different ATV websites/clubs in the area today.....

Let's here what you guys have done to "spread the word":smokin:

Thanks for the flier. im going to be printing these out and passing em out around here. I know its a ways away, but i know i love that area, and im sure with all the dirtbikers and trucks around, some others will help out,

Im going to be writing the date and time for the Bay Area Meeting on there too.

"I tossed this out on a few bulletin boards that I frequent that have little to no involvement with ohv use but through their activities (fishing) can be severly impacted."

Interesting....here in SW Colorado, the Outfitters and Guide association sided with the green weenies to close access to motorized vehicles in the SJNF. TU and DU also signed up with the greenies

Good job guys. This is a problem all over the country.

Based on our research here, only about 9.5% of OHV users are active on Internet forums and messages. This means that there is a HUGE number of people who will never see any of this info unless you physically put it in front of them.

Get this info to retailers, gas stations, parts stores, and anywhere that will take them. It's also a good idea to sit at any popular wheeling destination and talk to every person coming by.

As I like to say, the work doesn't happen in your club or association meeting, and it doesn't happen on the Internet. The work happens out in the field, so that's where we need to be!

I printed out what I could on my home printer til the ink ran out!!!! Got about 10 copy's and took them to the neighborhood dirtbike riders and down at the gas station near my house. Just need to burn off more copies to keep the word going. I got the next 2 days off, so that should help some

I e-mailed the flyer to 5 different ATV websites/clubs in the area today.....

Let's here what you guys have done to "spread the word":smokin:

I've posted to the following PBB's

http://www.golddredger.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi
http://www.49ermike.com/dc/dcboard.php
http://www.plp2.org/forum/

We have a lot in common with the gold mining community as far as the tree huggers trying to remove our access.
I'll be posting more flyers on Volcanoville road next weekend.

I know, I come from a long line of miners:smokin:

Keep up the good work!!

I printed out 1500 copies and supplied them to Jeepers Jamboree Inc last week to include in all there handout on botgh Jamborees coming up this month.
have also talked with Sluice Sally and will print up a couple hundred more to hand out at the Safeway in Pollock Pines, al lot of people going camping/wheeling stop there for food and ice before heading into the mountains

I sent a letter to the editor with a copy of the flyer to the Mountain Democrat. Don't know if they will publish it, but it's worth a try.

Edit: Just saw the other thread about placing an ad in the paper. Oh well.

I printed out 1500 copies and supplied them to Jeepers Jamboree Inc last week to include in all there handout on botgh Jamborees coming up this month.
have also talked with Sluice Sally and will print up a couple hundred more to hand out at the Safeway in Pollock Pines, al lot of people going camping/wheeling stop there for food and ice before heading into the mountains

Double check the web links on the flyers you have already printed (I dont think they are correct), the FS moved the link just a few days ago.

I like the Safeway idea, let me know when and if I have time, I will come up and help.

EDIT: see posts # 4 & 6 above.

Double check the web links on the flyers you have already printed (I dont think they are correct), the FS moved the link just a few days ago.

I like the Safeway idea, let me know when and if I have time, I will come up and help.

That is a great idea. Maybe the Napa in Pollock wouldn't mind setting a stack on their counter, and posted on the bulletin board outside.

Edit: Just saw the other thread about placing an ad in the paper. Oh well.
Great work -- don't worry about the difference between an advertisement (Aggro) and an editorial (Redheck). Both can be effective, and even complementary!

Letters to the editor are great tools to get the word out, and it would be great to see letters in all the Nor-Cal papers and periodicals! :cool:

Randii

May I also suggest walking stacks of them into businesses that cater to outdoor people like us...

I dropped some off at my local 4x4 shop, I also e-mailed one to Robb's Resort...but I never got a reply. I think Bruce at Round-Eyes was passing them out.....

oh, yeah...the link IS fixed on the flyer. By the end of the day I may also add the times and places of the meetings on the flyer.

We are good on the link on the flyer we sent to Jeepers Jamboree, I sent them out last week.

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/projects/route/index.shtml
which is good and I also included an email of

enf.routedesignation@yahoo.com
this is to get a email list to help inform people

Cool, I just wanted to make sure it wasnt the wrong addy on the flyers:smokin:

I would like to know the exact reasoning behind these closures. Why is the TNF trying to do this? What is there argument and what are their statistics? Is it fire danger? is it littering?

I would like to know the exact reasoning behind these closures. Why is the TNF trying to do this? What is there argument and what are their statistics? Is it fire danger? is it littering?

What say the brethern?

EVERY National forest will go thru the Route Designation process. Compared to ELDO, it looks like Tahoe will not lose nearly as many miles.

Randii and Scott could answer this WAY better than I, but from what little I know and to to make it simple:

The forest service got sued by the treehuggers for mis-management of the forests. A court order came down and told the FS that they needed to take an inventory and re-designate (note not CLOSE but redesignate) roads and trails to balance so called "taking care of the forest" and OHV use. Of course they can still log and drive those big tracked vehicles all over the forest floor...

The reasons why this happened does not mean jack now. All we can do is argue for routes and trails to remain open during the public comment period.

Oh yeah,

Would you believe that I actually called the ACLU today on this?

I would tell everyone here in detail what they told me on the phone and the ensuing argument, but I have already been warned a coupla times about my bad language in this forum. :D

Needless to say,

They will not be any help. They are definatly in bed with the Sierra Club.

Spill it..........:p

It's alphabet soup.

TNF = Tahoe National Forest
EDC = El Dorado County
EDNF = Eldorado National Forest (yes it really is "Eldorado")
DEIS = Draft Enviromental Impact Statement
EIR = Enviromental Impact Report


Bear mentions "EDC route des" That should be to mean Eldorado NF route des. With a DEIS or Draft Enviromental Impact Statement.

The EDC is doing a Rubicon Trail Master Plan or RTMP. That will be out soon to further complicate matters. It will include an IER or Enviromental Impact Report. Yes, there is a difference but let's not go there.

What is it vertigo that you are asking?

Tahoe forest issued a forest wide (only theirs) fire resrtiction. That affected Fordyce as well as the rest of the trails in the entire forest. The reason was fire danger. From my memory TNF has higher restrictions than other nearby forests. Remember the big fires they have had?? The lions share of most FS budgets go to fire suppresion. By instituting a higher level of restriction it helps the budget to not have to fight fire.

Scott

Satisfactory!!!

I just think it's difficult to understand and more difficult to give reasons for the roads to be open. Just saying that o i've been camping there since i was 3 and 30 years later the place looks the same and now you want to close it? WHY? what is the reasoning? there are millions and millions of square miles of forest all over, vehicles should be the least of the concern. Is it because they can't patrol the area enough? People feel that everyone and everything needs to be policed? If someone flew over the forest in the areas that are being potentially closed and took a picture 30 years ago, I'll bet a picture from today would show NO or very little difference.
If they say the forest needs to be preserved for people to enjoy and for scenery, whats the point if you can't even get to those areas to enjoy them? This is total bs and im sick of the left fighting for something that they have never even seen for themselves! If you read up on some greeny websites, its totally rediculas how they use vocabulary= swamp buggies are tearing up the TNF. Show me a swamp buggy in NorCal. Hell show me a swamp. If they called them rockcrawlers people would probably think, o so what, a 4x4 driving over some rocks is the least of this worlds concern. But Swamp buggy.... o god destoying the little frog and it's habitat.... we need to protect the bugs. This is totally rediculas! I will try my hardest to spread the word that this has to stop! but people keep asking me why? why is the forest being closed? there must be a good reason for it. And i just don't have an answer.....

Spill it..........:p

Let's just say we got into an argument over what "Civil Liberties" were :mad3:

Yes, this is a national Travel Designation process that will visit every forest.
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/projects/route/
The Forest Service wants to improve its management by balancing the public's enjoyment of using OHVs with ensuring the best possible care of the land.

For Eldorado National Forest, we have an additional complexity because of the lawsuit Kurt mentioned. Part of the settlement of that lawsuit was instructions to complete an expedited Route Designation process, which is why Eldorado National Forest is hustling. Another part of the closure threw out the 1990 OHV Management Plan for Eldorado (immediately declassifying 700 miles of roads into 'unclassified routes), which is one of the reasons why we are losing more roads than Tahoe National Forest -- the TNF system has been legitimately updated in the last 20 years, where the ENF pretty much has not. :(

The reasons why this happened does not mean jack now. All we can do is argue for routes and trails to remain open during the public comment period.
Agreed -- time to DEFEND.

Randii

Would you believe that I actually called the ACLU today on this?
You should have taped it and sold it for entertainment. ACLU vs. Clamper.

That HAD to be entertaining! :laughing:

Randii

Good job guys. This is a problem all over the country.

Based on our research here, only about 9.5% of OHV users are active on Internet forums and messages. This means that there is a HUGE number of people who will never see any of this info unless you physically put it in front of them.

Get this info to retailers, gas stations, parts stores, and anywhere that will take them. It's also a good idea to sit at any popular wheeling destination and talk to every person coming by.

As I like to say, the work doesn't happen in your club or association meeting, and it doesn't happen on the Internet. The work happens out in the field, so that's where we need to be!


SERIOUSLY!!! That's what I've done in our neck of the woods and words definitely slow to get out. For the Lassen N.F. Just in our area, I got a list of names and received 150+ names, but only 30 e mail addresses. Just goes to show that many other people are actually out there doing stuff rather than being online. And by everyone doing what they are doing by spreading the word and getting people involved is the best thing that we can all do. Big props to everyone whos participating, keep up the good work.

come on lets keep spreading the word!

sent an email today to the editor and publisher of the Mountain Democrat asking for them to have a reporter at the Placerville meeting....
see what happens

Oops,

I forgot to add my newest action:

This morning, I e-mailed 36 different 4x4 clubs in Northern and Central CA about ELDO'S route des project. Included the meeting dates for the meetings and copies of the Route Designation flyer.

I am printing up the new *bling* flyers as we speek.
I will dropp off a few hundred, starting at Roseville Cycle (a block from my house) and stopping at every ATV/motorcycle/offroad shop along the way to Tahoe tomorrow.

posted the flyer/seen flyer on:
offroadworld, jeeperz, jeepsunlimited, jeepforum, bigfishtackle.com.

I'll start sending out the flyer to as many norcal fishing forums I can find on google tonight.

Would it be posible for Lance to send a mass PM to everyone on this board? I am sure there is some people that dont visit this post. Just a thought

Oops,

I forgot to add my newest action:

This morning, I e-mailed 36 different 4x4 clubs in Northern and Central CA about ELDO'S route des project. Included the meeting dates for the meetings and copies of the Route Designation flyer.


I got that today. FWIW I have been talking about this with our club for over a year and recently barraged them into submission with emails. I also printed out a bunch of your fliers to distribute to the local dirt bike shops and also plan to take some out to Argyle Park. The letter to the editor of the Vacaville Reporter is in the works. Any leftover fliers will find their way to rigs/bikes with trailers etc gassing up.

I tried changing our website main page to the flier by my puter skilz bring on the suk

Robert

I tried plastering

posted the flyer/seen flyer on:
offroadworld, jeeperz, jeepsunlimited, jeepforum, bigfishtackle.com.

I'll start sending out the flyer to as many norcal fishing forums I can find on google tonight.

I posted on this on recently. Perhaps another user speaking up might help http://www.ncffb.org

It bugs me how little some people think this is going to effect them:shaking:

I got hangtown extreme, RPS and the gas stations and liquor stores on pleasant valley, and grizzly flat post office as well as somerset. Headed up to Robb's Resort in the morning.. I will hit fresh pond, Ice house and Robbs of course on the way.. Im the bar tender at Robb's everyone will hear about this.. and get a flyer...

How did you contact them, so more of us can do the same...

by the way I emailed News 10 asked them to help, and come to the meeting in Placerville.. not sure if they will, dont want to upset the greenies who watch them but its worth a shot I thought,, cross your fingers..

Just a hint to help find business for flyer distribution...

1. Go to http://local.google.com/maps?f=l
2. Type in a location in the Where textbox, like say "Placerville, ca" for example.
3. Then in the What textbox cycle through some obvious keywords. Try "atv", "motorcycle", "4x4", "snowmobile", "hunting", "guns", etc.
4. Visit each place with a stack of flyers

Hope that helps, it seems to be a fairly effective way of finding places.

i'm gonna try the 4wheel parts in the area as well as motorcycle shops and even dealerships

Im the bar tender at Robb's

DING! DING! DING!!!!

Never tell a coupla Clampers like me and Rick that you are a BARTENDER!!!
You now have 2 new best friends. :D

BTW, I DID e-mail Robb's with a version of the old flyer like 2 weeks ago, but I never heard back....

i'm gonna try the 4wheel parts in the area as well as motorcycle shops and even dealerships

Ask for Bald Mike that works in the back at the SJ 4wheelparts, he runs with my club. Tell 'em Kurt says if he does not get these flyers out to EVERYONE. I will shoot him.

Would it be posible for Lance to send a mass PM to everyone on this board? I am sure there is some people that dont visit this post. Just a thought

Lance posted the announcement at the top of every thread AND is running his own ad in several papers on it....

mine are printed and ready to go.. they are all a bit slow when it comes to contact with the outside world... As far as the bar, you know where to find me... I'd offer to buy you a drink but I know how you clampers can be... so yeah remind me later..

Probably a snow ball chance in hell but worth a shot. I wounder what they would think if barraged by a couple hundred tips? So far they have mine.

http://www.kgoam810.com/Article.asp?id=347972

Trying to find a submission page on 1530 but it's a maze

http://www.kfbk.com/cc-common/news/sections/

I just got off the phone with the Mountain Democrat (placerville newspaper)and they will send a reporter to the meeting in placerville on the 24th

I just got off the phone with the Mountain Democrat (placerville newspaper)and they will send a reporter to the meeting in placerville on the 24th

That's awesome.

I just got off the phone with the Mountain Democrat (placerville newspaper)and they will send a reporter to the meeting in placerville on the 24th


Nice Rick:)

Comrades,
Many of us fish or hunt, in addition to just enjoying the outdoors by going places you can't drive the Honda to. The best way to arouse public interest is to engage the folks that make money off controversy. I respectfully suggest that we all call various talk show hosts and media editors to demonstrate that our cause is good for their bottom line.
If you have a chance, please contact some of the folks below at an opportune time.
Thanks, Dale

KHTK 1140 AM Sacramento
Saturdays
6:00am - 8:00am CALIFORNIA SPORTSMEN with Sep Hendrickson
Sacramento area: (916) 339-1140
Toll-free, anywhere: (800) 920-1140

KFBK 1530 AM SACRAMENTO
Bob Simms - Outdoor Show
Saturdays 5-7 AM
916-921-1530, 800-834-1530 or Dial * or # 1530 from your cell phone.

KNBR 680 AM SAN FRANCISCO
sUNDAYS 6:00 - 7:00am
The Fishing Report with Brian Hoffman
808-KNBR (pick an area code)
(to talk with show hosts on-air, from area codes
415, 408, 650, 510, 925 or 707)

SACRAMENTO BEE
To submit events or news about recreational sports, water sports, hiking, biking, camping, fishing, rock climbing or four-wheeling, please send information at least two weeks in advance to Outbound,Scene, The Sacramento Bee, P.O. Box 15779, Sacramento, CA 95852; fax (916) 556-5625; or e-mail outdoors@sacbee.com.

I ran Hell Hole today. I was pleasantly suprised that a guy in a Toyota was handing out the flyers. Very cool. I plan to take a stack of them up to Foothill Offroad and Central 4 wheel drive tomorrow and see if they'll hand them out to their customers.

My letter (http://www.thereporter.com/letters/ci_6432280) to the editor made it to the Saturday edition of the Vacaville Reporter newspaper. It's probably got a few glitches in it and I'm curious as to what kind of response it might generate but at least it was some additional exposure.

FWIW letters to the editor in papers is super easy.

My letter (http://www.thereporter.com/letters/ci_6432280) to the editor made it to the Saturday edition of the Vacaville Reporter newspaper. It's probably got a few glitches in it and I'm curious as to what kind of response it might generate but at least it was some additional exposure.

FWIW letters to the editor in papers is super easy.

GOOD JOB!!!

It was wonderfully written.

I have also heard that someone wrote a letter to the editor in friday's Mountain democrat in Placerville which sounded ALMOST the exact same as our fler.....

I drove around Discovery bay today and passed out flyers in my neighborhood to houses where I have seen dirt bikes and quads....there's a lot of those guys around here..

my stack of 200 flyers I printed on thursday is halfway gone.

My letter (http://www.thereporter.com/letters/ci_6432280) to the editor made it to the Saturday edition of the Vacaville Reporter newspaper. It's probably got a few glitches in it and I'm curious as to what kind of response it might generate but at least it was some additional exposure.
FWIW letters to the editor in papers is super easy.
Excellent job, Robert!

Plan would limit forest access
Reporter Editor:
Article Launched: 07/21/2007 07:18:40 AM PDT

. People in California and throughout the United States are on the fringe of losing access to tens of thousands of miles of roads in our national forests.
. The U.S. Forest Service is undertaking a designated route management assessment in each of our national forests. The Eldorado National Forest in California is the first national forest in the nation to initiate this process and has recently released its proposed action. The proposal calls for denying access to more than 1,800 miles of roads that in many cases have been used for decades.
. This proposal will affect hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, outdoor photography, cross-country skiing, off-highway vehicle use and a whole host of other activities. Once enacted, the changes are permanent and places that have traditionally been enjoyed by the public will be extremely difficult to access or be lost altogether.
. With less access, there will be an increased burden on fewer areas, which will take away from the enjoyment that getting away from the city offers.
. The rest of the nation's forests are watching intently to see the public's response. Unfortunately, the whole process has gone all but unnoticed except by a few specific user groups.
. The public has only until Sept. 3 to voice its comments with the Eldorado National Forest before a final decision is made.
. I urge resident to please take some time to visit the Web site www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado and see how the routed designation process is going to affect them.


Nicely done!

Randii

My letter (http://www.thereporter.com/letters/ci_6432280) to the editor made it to the Saturday edition of the Vacaville Reporter newspaper. It's probably got a few glitches in it and I'm curious as to what kind of response it might generate but at least it was some additional exposure.

FWIW letters to the editor in papers is super easy.

I posted a comment.

I just sent the kids out with fliers in hand to the local businesses here in Pollock:).

Safeway
Longs
Kragen
True Value
Napa

I'm printing more tommorow, I got a huge stack on the counter at sportsmans wharehouse, I'm going to try and hit some auto parts stores in sacto tomorrow.

is the folsom meeting still "to be confirmed" or is it for real yet?

Its real now...

Dropped flyer's off in Elk Grove, motorcycle shops and a off road shop yesterday. They had no idea about it.

I dropped off over 100 at various outdoor business' last week.
I explained what they should do to get involved and asked them to pass them out to every customer.

Same story, nobody knew that this was happening.

IMO, the FS should be responsible for spreading the word about this, not us. It is the public land they are going to affect so they should be the ones to get public input/involvement:mad3:

Another point for a suit....the public involvement involved mostly users, not the actual "public"

B T T....
OK folks, we have 3 meeting left after tonight in Jackson(I wish I could be there), Markleeville, tomorrow (I doubt the turnout will be huge), Folsom on next Tuesday and Concord a week from that.

GET THE WORD TO EVERYONE!!
We need a much bigger turnout for the last two than we had at P-ville.

Can someone make a flyer that requests donations to BRC and Cal4 that we can handout at the next few meetings?

Curious, but do you know if the report showed up?? I was there last night, but I have no idea who was who. Would be interesting to find out if an article shows up in the paper.

Someone;) just posted this on craigslist...http://sacramento.craigslist.org/mcy/382879125.html

it'll probly get flagged down soon enough, but a little effort and some copy/paste we should be able to keep it going... I imagine too many spam posts from one user could cause a problem??

I saved it to my HD, I'll post it on CL tomorrow:D

I also have a stack of flyers(thanks to jtraver:smokin:) next to me that will be plastered everywhere before the Folsom meeting.

If anyone has time, e-mail both newspaper articles(Mountain Democrat/SacBee) along with the flyer to every media source that you can think of.
I will be sending them to every damn e-mail I can think of/find.:evil:

Dose handing a flyer the passenger of a YJ in the next lane during rush hour traffic count:grinpimp:

Like most everyone else they probably had no idea

Maybe someone can get some flyers out to Camping World. Wild Sports in Orangevale would be another good spot.

I'll try to get wild sports tommorow. I put 200 of them on the parts counters of motorcycle shops this afternoon and handed a bunch out to customers walking in. The Honda dealer on fair oaks allready had a stack of fancy color ones.

nobody I talk to knows shit about this,

I got an email from the Sacramento Bee and they are having a reporter look into the Folsom meeting

BRC's Don Amador was on KSFO Hot Talk 560 last night talking about the Eldorado DEIS.
http://www.ksfo.com:80/viewentry.asp?ID=361642&PT=Program%20Summaries

Keep up the good work!