That's right, I am now officially the fastest battery cable unhooker in the west! My 8274 winch won't stop reeling in even with the controller unplugged!

Am I correct in assuming I need to start replacing solonoids, and if so, can I use off the shelf solonoids from NAPA, or is there really something different about the ones from Warn?

Thanks in advance,

Ed

http://www.rightcoastcrawler.com/billaVista/8274/8274.htm

this was posted last week, are people just to lazy to search? I won't just tell you to search, but give you the link, but all I can say is Damn.......wtf?????

Nope not to lazy to search, just still to damn dumb to see where that link diagnoses a winch continuing to run after the switch is released and the controller removed.

Thanks for the link though. It's good to see some people still care enough to post the very best. :flipoff2:

Ed

Originally posted by Rock Taxi
Nope not to lazy to search, just still to damn dumb to see where that link diagnoses a winch continuing to run after the switch is released and the controller removed.

Thanks for the link though. It's good to see some people still care enough to post the very best. :flipoff2:

Ed

I'm not sure it does:) but as big as it is I think it will tell you allot. Might tell you about the sticking problem.

I have the same sticky problems after replacing the fried Warn solonoids with some recomended Cole Hersey solonoids.

I still have not addressed that problem, it's like number 38 on the list.

Awright lads,

I should have posted this info in the article, but here goes.

Have a look at pic 3 in large size.

The blue wire on the left, pics up 12v+ from the cable from the battery and carries it to the remote plug-in pin (not sure which pin since I have an "aftermarket" plug and socket on my remote as you can see in the article). When you plug in the remote and activate the switch, you send this 12v+ to the leftmost small terminal on one or other of the lower solenoids. If it's the the lower left solenoid (bright green wire on mine) the winch will reel in, if it's the lower right solenoid (brown wire in pic) the winch will reel out.

Now, when you supply that 12v+ to the solenoid, here's what happens, it essentially "closes the switch" of the solenoid, connecting the 2 large terminals on the sides of the solenoid together.

So, you can see, with the small jumper wires (black and dark green) 2 diagonally opposite solenoids are always closed at one time together. Either lower left and top right (reel in) or lower right and top left (reel out).

Now have a look at pic #2 and look at the terminals on the winch motor case. There are 2 on the left, one above the other, and one on the right. Let's label them, from the top left counter-clockwise, terminals 1,2, and 3. If you follow the wiring, you will see that when you power in you send 12v+ to terminal 2, and connect terminals 1 and 3 together. If you pwer out, you send 12v+ to terminal 1 and connect terminals 2 and 3 together.


So, you can see, for the winch to power-in uncontrolled as you describe, both the lower left and top right solenoids would have to fail closed simultaneously. Sounds kinda remote to me, but I guess it's possible. Personally, I would suspect a pin / wiring fault that inadvertantly provides 12v+ to the lower left terminal of the lower left solenoid.

And yes, you can use the HD Napa Ford starter solenoids. A lot of folks say you can't, and have to use the "constant duty" ones, but I know competant folks who have disassembled both and can see no difference in the quality of the contacts.

Originally posted by BillaVista
Awright lads,

And yes, you can use the HD Napa Ford starter solenoids. A lot of folks say you can't, and have to use the "constant duty" ones, but I know competant folks who have disassembled both and can see no difference in the quality of the contacts.

you can't "see" that they will not handle the high amp load, don't do it......

Originally posted by SeaBass44


you can't "see" that they will not handle the high amp load, don't do it......

I have 2 new Ford type solonoids and 2 of whatever was in there when I got it. One of my solonoids had a broken terminal, and it looked to me like they ought to be replaced in pairs.

No problems yet 2 years later.

Originally posted by oldjeep


I have 2 new Ford type solonoids and 2 of whatever was in there when I got it. One of my solonoids had a broken terminal, and it looked to me like they ought to be replaced in pairs.

No problems yet 2 years later.
people do some scary stuff, don't make it right.....

Originally posted by SeaBass44

people do some scary stuff, don't make it right.....

Except that if you build a drag-link like that you're gonna die - use a cheap solonoid and it might burn out. Wayyyy different risk categories :flipoff2:

Carparts.com sells the Warn Solonoids for $15 if you have time to order them so cost isn't a big issue. However, if you are in a hurry and need to pick something up at your local parts store, the Ford solonoids work fine :D

Originally posted by oldjeep


Except that if you build a drag-link like that you're gonna die - use a cheap solonoid and it might burn out. Wayyyy different risk categories :flipoff2:

:D

What if you need to winch your buddy up off a cliff and those damn cheap solinoids won't budge? And he falls off the cliff and dies before you can get to him?...Hmmmmmm:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Originally posted by SeaBass44


What if you need to winch your buddy up off a cliff and those damn cheap solinoids won't budge? And he falls off the cliff and dies before you can get to him?...Hmmmmmm:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Any joker can hotwire an 8274. The solonoids are just for convienience. If your starter solonoid fails, are you telling me you can't figure out how to start your jeep? :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

"FORD TYPE" what does that mean?
they look like starter soleniods but are actually constant duty?
or ACTUALLY starter solenoids?
the case design doesnt matter at all, it is the windings that pull and hold the contacts that differ between a starter version and constant duty version

Originally posted by oldjeep


Any joker can hotwire an 8274. The solonoids are just for convienience. If your starter solonoid fails, are you telling me you can't figure out how to start your jeep? :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

what's a jeep?????????????:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Originally posted by mj
"FORD TYPE" what does that mean?
they look like starter soleniods but are actually constant duty?
or ACTUALLY starter solenoids?
the case design doesnt matter at all, it is the windings that pull and hold the contacts that differ between a starter version and constant duty version

The type I am talking about are actually starter solonoids, heavy duty ford solonoids. No idea if they are rated for constant duty, but they have survived a lot of long pulls. To be honest I don't remember if they are on the power out or in circuit though. There would be a lot less load on the power out side since I've never had the winch loaded in that direction.

In answer to the original question, I would check the connector on the winch. The wires sometimes will pull out of the back enough to touch. Mine were pretty frayed and had to be cut and re connected to the connector.

Originally posted by SeaBass44


what's a jeep?????????????:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Ooops, didn't notice that you drive a Toy-Let :D

Originally posted by oldjeep


Ooops, didn't notice that you drive a Toy-Let :D

HA! You are so wrong:p it's a toy-zuklet, BaHaaaaaaaaaaaaa, not a toy-let

you can't "see" that they will not handle the high amp load, don't do it......

I didn't mean "see" literally, I meant "tell" any difference, and I mentioned that I learned this from someone who knows his way around these things. The only thing that sees the high current load are the copper contacts and the disc, and these appear no different between the 2.

Perhaps you could explain your point of view...as in, exactly what is it that makes a constant duty rated solenoid constant duty, and how is it different from a "regular" solenoid.

You do know that sometimes things are labelled differently purely from a marketing point of view? Like the same part for a Corvette or a Camaro....or the same part for a car vs. a boat...or god forbid an aircraft. No, I'm ot suggesting that all marine or air rated stuff are ripofss, of course there are a great many parts that ARE very different, even though they appear the same.

But I don't think there's any reason you can;t use Ford starter solenoids in your winch....and nobody yet has proven otherwise with a decent tecnical explanation.

Ball's in your court fish-boy :flipoff2:

[iwith a decent tecnical explanation.

Ball's in your court fish-boy :flipoff2: [/B]

fish boy? How does it work? How does a rainbow work, how does the sun rise, how does a posi trak on a 67 camero work......it just does! BaHaaaaaaaaaaa, it's the size of the coil and contacts, and what they are made of, some are copper, others are silver, or tin ect, some will flow higher amperage better then others. I have read the whole 9 yards on why not to use a ford starter solinoid, but I don't know where I read it,probley here and no I can't remember all the tech details....I remember it said not to do it:) I worked for a boat shop and they would not use cheapie ford solinoids in a outboard either.......he said they will burn up cause he had tried and no longer wasted his tiome with to light a part fior the job. use the correct part in electrical work or have a meldown that will cost you way more later:( so in short, don't use a starter solinoid ment for a 15 second contact on your winch for sdeveral mins:eek: :eek: :eek:

the difference is not in the contacts.
the difference is in the lil deal that pushes the contacts together.

Originally posted by mj
the difference is not in the contacts.
the difference is in the lil deal that pushes the contacts together.

that's the coil I sad that read above:flipoff2:

" it's the size of the coil and contacts, and what they are made of, some are copper, others are silver, or tin ect,"

and size got FA to do with it. :flipoff2:

Originally posted by mj
the difference is not in the contacts.
the difference is in the lil deal that pushes the contacts together.

Oh! Cool! A technical answer I can understand. :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

I am picking up new Warn solonoids and will replace the ones in there with those. It seems to me I only use the winch when someone's ass or rig is on the line, so it needs to work reliably when I use it, both spooling out or reeling in.

Thanks eveyone.

Ed

who makes warn's?
cole hersey like everyone else sells?

Originally posted by mj
who makes warn's?
cole hersey like everyone else sells?

I am sure a group of underpaid foreign nationals sitting behind antiquated machinery are pounding out Warn, Cole Hersee and every other starter solonoid made as fast as they can. What do you think?

Ed

How does a rainbow work,

Small water droplets in the atmosphere act like a prism and filter natural light into it's component frequencies, which to the human eye appear as different colours

how does the sun rise,

It doesn't , the Earth orbits the sun once every 265 days while simultaneously rotating on its own axis once every 24 hours, because of gravity, giving the diurnal changes that are colloquialy known as the rising and setting of the sun

how does a posi trak on a 67 camero work
Clutch plates limit the amount of wheels spin that can happen while the differential is differentiating.

Exactly how do different solenoids differ in their manufacture and components....apparently nobody knows exactly....certainly not SeaBass:flipoff2:

BTW - I think it's a good idea, and good insurance to buy constant duty rated solenoids for your winch, even from Warn if you like, but you can use the others, and many have been doing so for quite a long time.

And still nobody can tell me exactly what brands are made of what type, quality, and guage of material....c'mon, this is supposed to be a tech site....anybody can quote sales literature:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

I think it comes down to no one really gives a damn.
one is rated constant, one isnt. both are really quite inexpensive.
now if someone would sell a good corrosion resistant one for a decent price then maybe it would be worth ripping them apart to determine whats in them.
I do know that once the smoke gets out of them they are no good.
if someone could figure out how to put the smoke back in electrical stuff they would be a handy guy to have around.

Originally posted by BillaVista


It doesn't , the Earth orbits the sun once every 265 days while simultaneously rotating on its own axis once every 24 hours, because of gravity, giving the diurnal changes that are colloquialy known as the rising and setting of the sun



Crap, I guess that makes almost 38 years old instead of 27!:flipoff2:

Originally posted by mj
I think it comes down to no one really gives a damn.
one is rated constant, one isnt. both are really quite inexpensive.
now if someone would sell a good corrosion resistant one for a decent price then maybe it would be worth ripping them apart to determine whats in them.
I do know that once the smoke gets out of them they are no good.
if someone could figure out how to put the smoke back in electrical stuff they would be a handy guy to have around.

yup no one cares, and getting the smoke back in is very hard..... I may not remember why, but I have read why before Bill, but I know not to do it:rolleyes: :rolleyes: that's a step up from anone that "just does it anyway":rolleyes: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by SeaBass44

people do some scary stuff, don't make it right.....

where do you find shit like that?!?!?! oh my god! thats so sik! im highly jealous......:flipoff2: :rasta: :rolleyes:

Originally posted by DCruiser138


where do you find shit like that?!?!?! oh my god! thats so sik! im highly jealous......:flipoff2: :rasta: :rolleyes:

I do it myself:flipoff2:

Originally posted by oldjeep


Carparts.com sells the Warn Solonoids for $15 if you have time to order them so cost isn't a big issue. However, if you are in a hurry and need to pick something up at your local parts store, the Ford solonoids work fine :D

Where did you find the Warn solenoids on the carparts.com site?

The 2040 Warn solenoid has the following advantages:

1 The contact disc is thicker and made of pure copper.

2 The contact posts are flycut after being assembled in the solenoid body to maximize the contact surface with the disc.

3 The pull in windings are heavier and will hold at a lower voltage than a normal Ford solenoid.

So for the $15.00 why chance it on a cheap replacement?

Ahhhhh....I wondered how long it was going to take to get Blackjack out of the woodwork with an 8274 thread ;)

Thanks for the info!

Seabass....take notes :flipoff2:

Spankbomb....bwa ha ha ...good one :D

Originally posted by BillaVista
Ahhhhh....I wondered how long it was going to take to get Blackjack out of the woodwork with an 8274 thread ;)

Thanks for the info!

Seabass....take notes :flipoff2:

Spankbomb....bwa ha ha ...good one :D

I was just sitting back waiting to see how many people would answer with the "Just get some Ford ones, they work". Sure they work, but why chance it and have your winch quit when ya need it.

Originally posted by Ben W


Where did you find the Warn solenoids on the carparts.com site?

You have to look them up by part number, they don't have a way to just browse them. I don't have the list right now, but you can look the part numbers up on warns site.

Now don't go bashing me because I'm a Land Rover guy, and we tend to be the extreme geeks on the 4wd scale, and also don't go bashing me because I seem to know about weird WARN parts that no one else knows about but.....

Get rid of the POS solenoid pack entirely and call WARN to order a 'contactor pack' for the Series 12 or Series 9 commercial winches.

Might cost you more than a $15 solenoid (uh, yeah, it definitely will...), but in the long run it will survive much longer than the solenoids.

I can get a part no. off of the one I have in the shop if anyone cares....

Michael

Contactors are very cool, but it seems some people get a little queasy paying the 60 bucks for four solenoids let alone the almost $200 for a contactor and appropriate wiring. Warn has some cool stuff in their industrial catalog if you can get one to look at. And a lot of it can be used on their regular winches.

Originally posted by oldjeep
Carparts.com sells the Warn Solonoids for $15 if you have time to order them so cost isn't a big issue. However, if you are in a hurry and need to pick something up at your local parts store, the Ford solonoids work fine :D

If it's a decent parts store it will carry constant duty solenoids in addition to starter solenoids. They don't have to be Warn to work. NAPA has them under part number ST95.