I am in the process of tearing down an HD Dana 60 rear and a kingpin front 60 as well. I am going to have them narrowed and was wondering how wide over stock would you go if given the chance. I am limited as to how much I can cut off the pass side front tube so I guess I need to figure out some measurements.


Also anyone know a good driveline and gear shop in Reno?

Go Full Width!

I don't think you'd need, nor want to go more than 1-1/2" wider. This should give you plenty of room to mount spring hangers, etc and improve turning radius.

PT

RV, see you made it over here...PT right, no more than 1 1/2"...call me

Full width in the front, +3" over stock in the rear.

find a way to go full width. you will like the wider track in the long run anyway. i realize that spring mounting is an issue, and i haven't done "full width" with a 60, but my front 44 is like 65" wms/wms.

Full width is out of the question. However I was toying with the idea of going 3.25 over stock in the front and 2.25 over stock in the rear. I dont really want to chop a ton of body off to make room for the tires to tuck but I do want a little increase in TW.

Just got a pair of 37/12.5/16 TSL's. I am having trouble deciding what gears to run. My rear axle has 4.10 and I was thinking 4.88, is I know most Rovers are going to 4.65 or 4.88 but is the added weight of the axles going to be an issue? I don't want my junk to be a dog on the HWY.


Frank I'll holler at you today, sorry for lagging......

Was an active member of Pirate a long time ago when i was a Toyota guy, so long ago I couldn't remember what e-mail I signed up with or my login/password.

find a way to go full width. you will like the wider track in the long run anyway. i realize that spring mounting is an issue, and i haven't done "full width" with a 60, but my front 44 is like 65" wms/wms.

Your runnning FW on a Disco? Got pics????

This forum is really taking a crap :flipoff2: Seriously, nobody even asked what size tires he was running, what width, what size wheels, how much lift, and where the lower links will be positioned. Without that information there is no way to tell anyone what is the ideal width. Seriously, throwing out numbers is retarded without the right information.

Grenerd,

You finally posted what size tires you are running. 37x12.50. Are you going bigger in the future? Are you going to shave the axles for more turning radius? What backspacing on the wheels? What lower links are you running? Sticking with the radius arms? Do you have a trailer you have to fit on? How much lift? Are you going with coils or coilovers? Can you get 40 degrees out of your steering now? You need to think about all of this before anyone can give you an accurate number.

This forum is really taking a crap :flipoff2: Seriously, nobody even asked what size tires he was running, what width, what size wheels, how much lift, and where the lower links will be positioned. Without that information there is no way to tell anyone what is the ideal width. Seriously, throwing out numbers is retarded without the right information.

Grenerd,

You finally posted what size tires you are running. 37x12.50. Are you going bigger in the future?

Hope not!

Are you going to shave the axles for more turning radius? What backspacing on the wheels?

Shave the axle for more turning radius? You mean Knuckle? The answer is no. I haven't even decided if I am going to keep the Dodge 8lug or go to Cheby 6 lug outers, so I have no clue about backspacing yet.

What lower links are you running? Sticking with the radius arms?

Home brew rear links, and some tube front radius arms from Mongo.

Do you have a trailer you have to fit on?

The day I own a rig that cannot drive to the trail and home it will be a tube buggy. If it can be registerd and is street legal trailering is for rich pussies.

How much lift? Are you going with coils or coilovers?

Fox coilovers 14" front/12" rear, Eibach sprigs, all in the garage waiting for the axles to be rebiult.

Can you get 40 degrees out of your steering now? You need to think about all of this before anyone can give you an accurate number.

I dont know If you are talking about the stock Rover axles here or not? I never invested enough time in my stock axles to figure the steering angle, I havent a clue what the max radius is for the 60.

I am leaving it up to Mongo to figure the brackets for the radius arms for me as I am sure between him and Ballistic there is more knowledge than any amount of research I could do would provide.

This would be soooo much easier if it were a toyota or heep we were talking about here, but then it wouldn't be any fun.

It's funny 10 years ago People on Pirate had a fraction of the knowledge the members do today, nobody knew what Ackerman was and High steer was brand new, now days everyone is a fawking mechanical engineer.:flipoff2:

I am open to any and all suggestions here as there is little info on cut down Dana's under coilovered Disco's out there.

Shave the axle for more turning radius? You mean Knuckle? The answer is no. I haven't even decided if I am going to keep the Dodge 8lug or go to Cheby 6 lug outers, so I have no clue about backspacing yet.

No, I meant axles. You can shave them for greater turning radius even with stock knuckles.

Home brew rear links, and some tube front radius arms from Mongo.

Where he mounts them matters for how skinny you can go.

The day I own a rig that cannot drive to the trail and home it will be a tube buggy. If it can be registerd and is street legal trailering is for rich pussies.

I'll remember you said that the first time you break.:laughing:

Fox coilovers 14" front/12" rear, Eibach sprigs, all in the garage waiting for the axles to be rebiult.

I dont know If you are talking about the stock Rover axles here or not? I never invested enough time in my stock axles to figure the steering angle, I havent a clue what the max radius is for the 60.

What I meant is when you design the new steering will you have enough travel to max out the new knuckles.

I am leaving it up to Mongo to figure the brackets for the radius arms for me as I am sure between him and Ballistic there is more knowledge than any amount of research I could do would provide.

This would be soooo much easier if it were a toyota or heep we were talking about here, but then it wouldn't be any fun.

It's funny 10 years ago People on Pirate had a fraction of the knowledge the members do today, nobody knew what Ackerman was and High steer was brand new, now days everyone is a fawking mechanical engineer.:flipoff2:

I am open to any and all suggestions here as there is little info on cut down Dana's under coilovered Disco's out there.

5.0 to 5.5in total width over stock (2.5-2.75 a side). Assuming you mount the radius arms in the same location as stock, and run a 4in backspacing wheel. This is assuming maximum turning radius with all stock Dana 60 components. It can be skinnier if you don't mind the tires rubbing on the radius arms. This is also erring on the wide side to be safe.

You will get the best turning and wheeling (IMO) with the rear 2-3in skinnier than the front.

Hope this helps.

5.0 to 5.5in total width over stock (2.5-2.75 a side). Assuming you mount the radius arms in the same location as stock, and run a 4in backspacing wheel. This is assuming maximum turning radius with all stock Dana 60 components. It can be skinnier if you don't mind the tires rubbing on the radius arms. This is also erring on the wide side to be safe.

You will get the best turning and wheeling (IMO) with the rear 2-3in skinnier than the front.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the honest answers, all things to considder. I am definately over rubbing tires on radius arms. As far as busting junk on the trail goes, you don't need a trailer to get you home, just spares and tools......

I was up at the Rubicon for the POR initiation weekend with friends and on the way out saw at least 4 TJ/JK/Yj's well built sitting on trailers at the earth dam. WTF is up with people building $30,000.00 rigs and trailering them to the trail behind lifted superdoodees?

Seems like some people have alot of dollars and not enough sense? To each his own I guess.

Thanks for the honest answers, all things to considder. I am definately over rubbing tires on radius arms. As far as busting junk on the trail goes, you don't need a trailer to get you home, just spares and tools......

I was up at the Rubicon for the POR initiation weekend with friends and on the way out saw at least 4 TJ/JK/Yj's well built sitting on trailers at the earth dam. WTF is up with people building $30,000.00 rigs and trailering them to the trail behind lifted superdoodees?

Seems like some people have alot of dollars and not enough sense? To each his own I guess.

Your welcome. Good luck on the build. To answer your question, when you get to a certain level of wheeling, when your pushing it every time you wheel, you simply can't assume that your trail rig can get you home. It's just a fact of life for some of us. I have been out on the trail when I severed both my rear links, folded the rear end, lost both air shocks, and driveshaft. To top it off, I grenaded my front 60 hubs trying to get back out in two wheel drive. You can't keep spare transfer cases, coilovers, ect.

You'll get it, one way or another, sooner or later....

No shit. Not to mention that my tow rig is a ton more comfortable than the trail rig... Plus it has a roof, doors, a radio, air conditioning, etc. etc.

No shit. Not to mention that my tow rig is a ton more comfortable than the trail rig... Plus it has a roof, doors, a radio, air conditioning, etc. etc.

I would think your rig would be an exception as it is basically a truggy and I am sure the street legality of it is debateable.

I am sure at some point I will need to build a buggy to satisfy my performance desires, I am planning a frame build as soon as the Disco is done. I am only building the Disco to be a comfortable full bodied trail rig for weekenders on the Rubicon, Fordyce, Moonrocks etc.

I have already bruised the body work so I know it is inevitable.

my front axle is out of a jeep j20. it is "full width" for its application.

chevy stuff is much wider, etc.

My plan (when I get time) is 2" per side over stock width. When I cut the car up and make it a tray back it will be between 5 and 10 inches longer than stock, I plan on running 37's or a bit bigger the mounting of the rear axle will be similar in design to the Rover set up but will be moved upwards vertically to reflect the lift (4-5") I'm still on the fence about what I would do with the front but it will depend a lot on the engine, Seeing as I'm having a rather expensive rover engine built i will probably stick with a three link design but I've been considering a unique four link set I've seen recently..

Seriously, throwing out numbers is retarded without the right information.


Buck:
I don't think this is a fair comment. Axle width is one of those things where you could easily go too big and have axles and wheels hanging way outside the body panels, looking ugly, attracting attention of LEOs on the way to the trail, potentially overexposing brake lines and steering gear to damage and trail width issues as well. I know that the majority of wheeling I do (or currently, used to:flipoff2:) was in areas where truck width was a major impediment.

The addition of a coupla inches would be sufficient to regain some lost turning radius AND make more room for mounting stock suspension bracketry.

I based my comments on discussions held with both Pendy and Revor with an eye toward regaining lost turning radius due to fitment of modest larger tires.

You could always go fullwidth and offset the wheels in to "take up the slack"

JP

You could always go fullwidth and offset the wheels in to "take up the slack"

JP

I think that is going to be the plan. Cut the rear for offset, and leave the rest of the axle widths alone. I am going to leave it 8lug too, my 4x Van is the same pattern and I've got a few extra sets of steel wheels for it.

Now I just need to figure out the gears.

narrow it as much as you can where it will still fit under the truck.

I think the rover is about 60" wide. I've got a 609 that I am building for a Jeep that is 60" wide. Just for the hell of it I measured the rover and the 609 and the springs and radius arms would have to occupy the same space as the inner knuckle C. I'm betting that 64" wide would be the minimum width without having to go to custom suspension components.

and have fun removing the inner C. I think the spicer book claims 6 thousandths interferance fit, and there is a very big pocket for the weld to get into. Dedenbears would have saved a couple of hours of work and some frightening moments on the press.

Buck:
I don't think this is a fair comment.

I do. :flipoff2:

You could always go fullwidth and offset the wheels in to "take up the slack"

JP

Not if you plan on using the stock steering knuckles. You start getting close to rubbing around 4in of backspacing. 5 would put the wheel right into the arm. Unless you are running 20's of course.

High steer arms------------------duh

:flipoff2:

Not if you plan on using the stock steering knuckles. You start getting close to rubbing around 4in of backspacing. 5 would put the wheel right into the arm. Unless you are running 20's of course.

High steer arms------------------duh

:flipoff2:

You can't run them on a Rover, without running at least 10in of lift. In which case, I would recommend going a little wider. :D

or.......
you can just get rid of the useless steering box. i could have run high steer and i only have 4" of actual lift built in. but then again i built it right, and used quality components.

if you are going to upgrade and modify you have to stop pretending that there are still useful rover parts to reuse. it just isn't true.

i have the tie rods coming off of the high side of the the steering arm and the panhard mount fits just inside all of the nice 1.5" dom steering links. when you have to reengineer, you actually have to RE-ENGINEER.

or.......
you can just get rid of the useless steering box. i could have run high steer and i only have 4" of actual lift built in. but then again i built it right, and used quality components.

if you are going to upgrade and modify you have to stop pretending that there are still useful rover parts to reuse. it just isn't true.

i have the tie rods coming off of the high side of the the steering arm and the panhard mount fits just inside all of the nice 1.5" dom steering links. when you have to reengineer, you actually have to RE-ENGINEER.


Aaron, can you get me pics of your steering/front axle setup? I could use some inspiration, feel a little slow right now, high humidity in Reno makes me retarded.:homer:

I'm betting that 64" wide would be the minimum width without having to go to custom suspension components.

and have fun removing the inner C.

I think I am going to have the tubes pulled and pressed into a RockJockIII HP center (I might have ended up with a 61, waiting on Ethan at PP to Id axle). Just need a shop reference in Reener and some pinion angle measurements/ suggestions.

Stilll at a loss for gearing...............4:88?????

I don't plan on swapping any stock suspension components over to the new junk, just more new junk.

Anyone got a line on Rover adapted Pinion flanges for the 60?

You can't run them on a Rover, without running at least 10in of lift. In which case, I would recommend going a little wider. :D

Not true. You can run High Steer with only 8" of lift.

Stilll at a loss for gearing...............4:88?????


That really depends on what size tires your running? I run 37's with 4.88s and you will lose a lot at the top end speeds. My truck really won't go over 65 or 70MPH. 4.56 would be more appropriate for this. If your running 35's or smaller definitely stick with 4.56, especially if you have a 1.4:1 T-case.

or.......
you can just get rid of the useless steering box. i could have run high steer and i only have 4" of actual lift built in. but then again i built it right, and used quality components.

if you are going to upgrade and modify you have to stop pretending that there are still useful rover parts to reuse. it just isn't true.

i have the tie rods coming off of the high side of the the steering arm and the panhard mount fits just inside all of the nice 1.5" dom steering links. when you have to reengineer, you actually have to RE-ENGINEER.

Why didn't you then? Maybe because the idea of 2 in of uptravel before the highsteer hits the frame is not ideal? I guess quality components took care of that for you. :laughing:

Yeah, the rover box I used was just total crap. :shaking: I guess I have just been lucky using it with 40's, power assist, and running the hammers for over 2 years on it.

And BTW, I used a custom pitman arm with the heim mounted on top, and the panhard slides in just behind my 1.75in chromo tie rod with 1.25in heims. I wish I had used quality components and built it right like you.

Why not a full hydro set-up? I'm leaning that way for mine....

That really depends on what size tires your running? I run 37's with 4.88s and you will lose a lot at the top end speeds. My truck really won't go over 65 or 70MPH. 4.56 would be more appropriate for this. If your running 35's or smaller definitely stick with 4.56, especially if you have a 1.4:1 T-case.

37/12.5/16 TSL.. I want to maintain HWY speeds and trail ablility as I still drive this thing fairly regularly. In the future I would like to swap in an Atlas, but I don't want to wait on my gear choices for that.

I spend alot of time running between Reno and Sac for business and family as well as to the trails. 50 and 80 are both packed with long grades and I don't want to be the guy doing 90 down hill just to pull 55 up the next.

I guess what I am trying to say is I can live with the current Low ratios off road but not so pleased with my current high range.

I am currently running 33's with stock gears.

The reason I am doing this is price, strength, and availability of parts and gear/locker options.

I hope to achieve a good balance of offroad ability as well as on road driveablility.

And BTW, I used a custom pitman arm with the heim mounted on top,

Pics of custom pitman arm please?

yes,please some pic's...

Why not a full hydro set-up? I'm leaning that way for mine....

Doesn't solve the hi-steer issue, which were argueing about a little. But would be nice.

mongosd2 or LWG,

I will e-mail one of you guys the pics if you don't mind posting them for me. I don't have a star anymore and linking sucks. Thanks.

send them to me...I'll post'em for ya buck...mongosd2@cox.net

Why didn't you then? Maybe because the idea of 2 in of uptravel before the highsteer hits the frame is not ideal? I guess quality components took care of that for you. :laughing:

Yeah, the rover box I used was just total crap. :shaking: I guess I have just been lucky using it with 40's, power assist, and running the hammers for over 2 years on it.

And BTW, I used a custom pitman arm with the heim mounted on top, and the panhard slides in just behind my 1.75in chromo tie rod with 1.25in heims. I wish I had used quality components and built it right like you.

first off,
sorry, i was tired and crabby last night and frustrated. my luck with my disco stuff hasn't been good. the disco gearbox i had only uses power steering fluid as a lubricant...if you know what i mean.....

in my opinion if you went wide enuff, you can easily run high steer. this does mean further outboarding the coil plates or running coilovers that will inboard a litte and i know that this could in turn introduce body roll.

truth be told, i will only be running about 3in of uptravel, but this has more to do with other issues. that will change one of these days when i get a better front drive shaft.

in my defense, i think my front end came out quite well for only being a dana 44.

if i can scrape up the 20 for the star, i will post some pics tonight.

by the way buck, perhaps you could enlighten me (and this threads original author) with a little more detail on the front of your rig.
axle
tie rod in front or back
that sort of thing.

once again my apologies for being so brash.

also, i too have gone to the hammers...several times.

imho we have somewhat better trails out here in az.
the thing i liked about the hammers was that that it was a pretty big party site (used to do the toy jambo but haven't been in 3 years).

not trying to continue any pissing matches, but it isn't my first rodeo.:)

Arron, send them to me, I'll psot them up for ya...by the way, your a really bad influence, anybody want a D2 steering box and ABS modulator?

also, i too have gone to the hammers...several times.

imho we have somewhat better trails out here in az.


I want to move to AZ. Tired of the Colorado winters...

Alright let me save the day here.

You can run high-steer rather easily with about 6.5" + of suspension lift, you just may want to remount your panhard-rod at the axle.

If you don't go that route, and want to run about 4.5" of lift you have to do some serious thinking. You either need a custom pitman with 0" drop or about 1.25" of rise and mount your TRE or Rod end to the top of it.... OR... a custom pitman are with around 2" of rise and run your end of choice to the under side of the pitman... Now at the knuckle it all depends on what your setup is as to whether you run your drag link (with the end of your choice) to the top or bottom of the high-steer arm. you will also need to re-mount your panhard rod in all likely-hood to match your new sexy drag-link angle....I'm getting a partial chub just thinking about it...

Now if you want to run a really low ride height 3" of suspension lift or less... which is the route I chose (about 2.5" suspension lift) high-steer isn't going to happen, and if it does you will be pounding your drag-link on the passenger side frame during compression constantly... mounting a pan-hard rod will be very difficult as you will have to match a very interesting drag-link angle... on my rig the factory panhard-rod bracket will sit about 2" below the factory Dana 60 tie-rod. The only way to stay this low is to go full hydro... in which case a whole lot of new fun things have to happen which we'll save for another day.

Also, anything less than full-width is for pussies... and ya'll aren't a bunch of pussies are you? :flipoff2:

Also, anything less than full-width is for pussies... and ya'll aren't a bunch of pussies are you? :flipoff2:

What are we using for the definition of "Full-Width"?

I can see where the "Full-Width" of the D44 I gave to Tuffjarhed from what was thought to be a Ditch Witch, is gonna be a different full-width than the D60s I have now from Ford and Dodge trucks.

Pussies take the easy way out and use Chevy or Ford bolt pattern wheels (says the man whose 60s are on the ground in the way).

What are we using for the definition of "Full-Width"?

I can see where the "Full-Width" of the D44 I gave to Tuffjarhed from what was thought to be a Ditch Witch, is gonna be a different full-width than the D60s I have now from Ford and Dodge trucks.

Pussies take the easy way out and use Chevy or Ford bolt pattern wheels (says the man whose 60s are on the ground in the way).

Touche, PT, Touche

once again my apologies for being so brash.

Accepted. Sorry for letting my e-temper flare.

I have sent pics to mongosd2. It should answer a lot of questions.

And madcowdungbeetle,

You can go 3in without full hydro. I think your going to get a chub on this one. I even found pics where everything was freshly painted :p

And madcowdungbeetle,

You can go 3in without full hydro. I think your going to get a chub on this one. I even found pics where everything was freshly painted :p

Interesting... then maybe I have even less lift than I thought, because there is no conceivable way I could get it to work without having to notch my frame on the passenger side for the drag link clearance. I also had to notch my rear frame outriggers to clear my lower links.

I remember when you sent me some pics of your setup a while back, and I racked my brain, messed around with a few pitman arms, and then finally decided it just wasn't going to happen... hence my move to full hydro, and a bunch of rover hydro-assist stuff taking up space in my garage. Of course full hydro also made my front 4-link a lot more manageable too.

Interesting... then maybe I have even less lift than I thought, because there is no conceivable way I could get it to work without having to notch my frame on the passenger side for the drag link clearance. I also had to notch my rear frame outriggers to clear my lower links.

I remember when you sent me some pics of your setup a while back, and I racked my brain, messed around with a few pitman arms, and then finally decided it just wasn't going to happen... hence my move to full hydro, and a bunch of rover hydro-assist stuff taking up space in my garage. Of course full hydro also made my front 4-link a lot more manageable too.

Maybe,

The pics I sent have 3in of lift and power assist. But, I run a good 5in of uptravel. There is a secret to doing this that I have never told anyone before. But since this is the famed rover community, I will now share the secret:

Set up your steering as best you can using very strong link material. Chromo is a good start. Raise the pitman arm as high as possible. Once completed, take your rover to the Desert. Truckhaven is a good place. Now, jump it. Get a good 4 feet of air under your front tires. Drinking beer will help. Do this a few times and your drag link will self clear.

Boom, problem solved. :laughing:

ahh,
beer, always a good tool. was going to pony up the twinny for the star, but recieved a massive ass-chewing as i have managed to overdraw the card my wife lets me use.....to the tune of $238. the worst part is that is for all 2 and 3 dollar items....damn...

i guess i will have to revisit the drag link issue, i have a hard time seeing where it hits.

we are talking about a dI right?
i think you guys will like the pics. the front came out quite clean.

My front axle is a 61.....Boooo. At $100. it's was still worth it for the tubes knucles and outers.

I am going with the HP Rock Jock III center for the front with the tubes and knuckles from the 61, True tracks front and rear, 5.13's, and regular old steering.........

Now I just need to remember where I left some money "just laying arround"...:barf: