i hate to post these ques cause im sure its been covered somewehre but ive looked at length and cant find any answers.


#1 which is better a d60 rear or a gm 14ff ?
i have one d60 intended for a 4 link on my '79 k5 but ive managed to aquire many 14ff's and just want to be sure

#2 how to twinstick my np 205?
i found a link to 4wheeloffroad.com but the pictures are crap and would like better info

offroad design has a great kit ya the website sucks but the products are great

Basic idea is the 14BFF is bigger heavier and stronger. On a K5, I would go 14BFF cause you aint starting with a lightwieght anyway. On a toyota or something you can go D60 and save some weight without loosing any noticible strength. I am sure there are some neat-o numbers to go with all of this, but you get the idea.

Basic idea is the 14BFF is bigger heavier and stronger. On a K5, I would go 14BFF cause you aint starting with a lightwieght anyway. On a toyota or something you can go D60 and save some weight without loosing any noticible strength. I am sure there are some neat-o numbers to go with all of this, but you get the idea.

hmmm that kinda sucks cause i thought it would be soo cool to brag that i have d 60 in the front and the back. however i think back and remember that dodge heavy duty runs d 60 so is that an opinion or fact. is the d60 the best front diff cause im fixin to buy a junk k30 for the bbc and the d60 but it will come with another 14ff

like i said b4 im a newbie here just getting my feet wet into this forum but hope to really start posting some progress shots of my build

offroad design has a great kit ya the website sucks but the products are great

i guess i dont get where youre going with that

stock a d60 rear axle is not strong
it runs 1.3" 30 spline shafts
you can upgrade them to 1.5" 35spline but to do that you have to bore the spindles out as the hole is too small to slide the 1.5" shafts in
you would need a carrier from a front d60 application to accept the new 1.5" axles as well

the dodge running gear I had under a chevy was d60 front and d70 rear
nothing HD about a d60 rear

I'd take a stock 14 over a stock rear 60 any day. weld it up, ditch the drums and your good to go.

I would take a stock d70 over a stock 14ff any day
all the strength with out the anchor

Was that an option?

it is always an option

14 bolt FF has a stronger/bigger pinion than a Dana 60, plus a larger ring gear.
14 bolts also have thier pinions supported at both ends of the pinion shaft, which makes the gears less likely to deflect under load.
Dana axles have much greater of a gear selection than the 14 bolt which makes them more popular sometimes....
14 bolts are cheap and plentiful and can be sourced for chump change anyplace, any time, whereas Dana axles going cheap are hard to find and people who got 'em usually know what they are worth.

Use the 14bff since you already have spares and convert it to disc brakes.

good good the info here is helpful
are D60 rears of any value?
if their not any good for a heavy app then i might ought to sell it for an honest price ya know.
if ya dont mind me pickin your brain again then heres some more ques.....


a 1 ton gm with the dana up front, what are the specs on them like hp or not, splines. ive seen in the classifieds they are selling aftermarket steering knuckles-is there any benifit? basically any info i might need to buy parts. are they hard to set up for an inexperienced guy ( never even done an axle) from this site it sounds like people believe 14bff are easy to set up.

in theory ......
whats to stop a guy from turning a 14bff into a front axle?
can you use the D60 disc on your 14bff? im 99% certain they share the same part # bearings.

d60 rears are not worth much to anyone that knows axles
a d60 front is a different beast
there is no point to a 14ff front

the 14 bolt disk will cost you 150 bucks for all parts brand new

the 14 bolt disk will cost you 150 bucks for all parts brand new

where can i find that ? ive never actually seen a 14b conversion but the other conversions ive seen cost around 600

GreatLakesOffroad brackets and a set of rebuilt calipers and a new set of rotors
add brake lines and you are done
no one here would pay $600 for a rear disc swap

Off Road Design(.com) sells the kit for around $150.
Rotors have to be Dana 44 or 10 bolt 8 lug, and the calipers from the same axle.
Speaking of which, that just gave me an idea with what to do with my old 8 lug 10 bolt front...:D

well then ORD is ripping people off there as well as everywhere else
the brackets they sell are $45 here http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=477819
and $45 here http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=587279

I have had mine custom cut locally and it was under $30cdn per side ($22 iirc) on a small run of 10
I know what it costs, which is why I say get them from GreatLakesOffroad.
he is selling lots of cool parts for very good pricing (cheaper then I can make them) and we need to support guys like that.

so even if ORD buys them for the retail price here on p4x4 and resells them it is 300% markup
oddly enough I am not a customer of ORD

in theory ......
whats to stop a guy from turning a 14bff into a front axle?
can you use the D60 disc on your 14bff? im 99% certain they share the same part # bearings.

If you are asking these type of questions you are no ware near ready to build a front axle. A 14bolt front has been done many times and even marketed by a couple of companies. It's definatly a strong front axle....

A d60 rear is a girly axle compaired to a 14bolt. They have a hard enough time keeping a d60 rear together under hard use in a tube buggy, let alone a full size.

14bolt ff rear disk brake brackets are very common in the off road world...if a company makes a disk brake bracket they will make it for the 14ff.

ORD's prices have always been higher than others...but they sell good products that you can just about bolt on.

Grinding 205 shift rails is a piece of cake. I did it off of the petersons article...you can to. There are some other articles on the web about it but they all basicly say the same thing...

hmmm that kinda sucks cause i thought it would be soo cool to brag that i have d 60 in the front and the back. however i think back and remember that dodge heavy duty runs d 60 so is that an opinion or fact. is the d60 the best front diff cause im fixin to buy a junk k30 for the bbc and the d60 but it will come with another 14ff

like i said b4 im a newbie here just getting my feet wet into this forum but hope to really start posting some progress shots of my build

the 14 bolt is comparable in strength to a dana 70. how many dually dana 60s do you see now what about 14bolts.(redneck measurement of strength and comparison)
you sure your dodge hd isnt a dana 70

good good the info here is helpful
are D60 rears of any value?
if their not any good for a heavy app then i might ought to sell it for an honest price ya know.
if ya dont mind me pickin your brain again then heres some more ques.....


a 1 ton gm with the dana up front, what are the specs on them like hp or not, splines. ive seen in the classifieds they are selling aftermarket steering knuckles-is there any benifit? basically any info i might need to buy parts. are they hard to set up for an inexperienced guy ( never even done an axle) from this site it sounds like people believe 14bff are easy to set up.

in theory ......
whats to stop a guy from turning a 14bff into a front axle?
can you use the D60 disc on your 14bff? im 99% certain they share the same part # bearings.

are you calling people newbs?

gm dana 60 35splines inner 30 outer. kingpin and low pinion. dont konw the wms but it shoudl be the same as all gm shit. with the exception of dually hubs but im pretty sure you can convert those to single wheel pretty easily.
steering parts eh if you run hydro and big meats then yeah i guess you could use them. or if you manage to break the stock shit with your shit. might i ask what your set up will be like tire size and what not. i think you already said somethign about a big block

are you calling people newbs?

gm dana 60 35splines inner 30 outer. kingpin and low pinion. dont konw the wms but it shoudl be the same as all gm shit. with the exception of dually hubs but im pretty sure you can convert those to single wheel pretty easily.
steering parts eh if you run hydro and big meats then yeah i guess you could use them. or if you manage to break the stock shit with your shit. might i ask what your set up will be like tire size and what not. i think you already said somethign about a big block


when i said "newb" i was refrencing me and my upcomming line of begginer type rapid fire ques. im not as inexperienced as i might sound here just never had hands on. just big big dreams that are meticuliously planned due to no money and lots of time alone in deep thought(im a truck driver). all my info comes by reading jegs summit and as many offroad mags as i can get

whats wms stand for? what is "hydro" refrencin'? i think you mean the hydro assist steer. (guessing its very costly) maybe someone could direct me to a steering pump with a remote resivoir that will support hydro brakes as well as hydro steer.

not sure about engine i hope to aquire another truck with sbc and multi point efi but again just a dream. i have a sb 350 as well as a 400 have yet to aquire the bb454. tires will be as large as reasonably possible but not uselessly large. going for a little show but mostly all go.either a 465 or th400 tranny unless i get this other efi carcuss (a trashed '03 or so 4x4 in negotiations for around 500) none other than a 205 t-case. umm.... 4link front and back. obviously not goin with the D60 rear but a 14bff rear and as hard as they are to find i have found a few D60 front for pretty dang cheap .will all be in a '79 blaze. one day i hope to post the entire build begining to end but im afraid by the time im done gasoline will be a thing of the past.....lol

again to all ...........thanks

whats wms stand for? what is "hydro" refrencin'? i think you mean the hydro assist steer. (guessing its very costly) maybe someone could direct me to a steering pump with a remote resivoir that will support hydro brakes as well as hydro steer.

not sure about engine i hope to aquire another truck with sbc and multi point efi but again just a dream. i have a sb 350 as well as a 400 have yet to aquire the bb454. tires will be as large as reasonably possible but not uselessly large. going for a little show but mostly all go.either a 465 or th400 tranny unless i get this other efi carcuss (a trashed '03 or so 4x4 in negotiations for around 500) none other than a 205 t-case. umm.... 4link front and back. obviously not goin with the D60 rear but a 14bff rear and as hard as they are to find i have found a few D60 front for pretty dang cheap .will all be in a '79 blaze. one day i hope to post the entire build begining to end but im afraid by the time im done gasoline will be a thing of the past.....lol

again to all ...........thanks

WMS=wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface. It is a measure of the ultimate width of the axle. Easy enough, right?

Hydro was in reference to steering which can refer to either fully hydraulic or hydraulic assist.

Fully hydraulic=steering wheel turns an orbital valve. There is no steering box. Instead the orbital valve directs fluid from the pump to a ram on the axle thus moving the wheel back and forth.

Hydraulic assist=stock steering (or crossover hopefully), but the steering box is tapped and hydraulic lines are run from it to a ram to help turn the wheels.

Were you implying that the wrecked '03 has an NP205 t-case or that that is the only t-case you are willing to run?

WMS=wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface. It is a measure of the ultimate width of the axle. Easy enough, right?

Hydro was in reference to steering which can refer to either fully hydraulic or hydraulic assist.

Fully hydraulic=steering wheel turns an orbital valve. There is no steering box. Instead the orbital valve directs fluid from the pump to a ram on the axle thus moving the wheel back and forth.

Hydraulic assist=stock steering (or crossover hopefully), but the steering box is tapped and hydraulic lines are run from it to a ram to help turn the wheels.

Were you implying that the wrecked '03 has an NP205 t-case or that that is the only t-case you are willing to run?


no no i was simply saying that the only case that i would run is the np205. only because ive heard the are the best and i have a few. are their any other cases that are better as well as affordable? or wuold it be best to say for the money the 205 is good? also what kinda t cases does gm put in todays trucks? are they worth their weight or just for casual use only?
ive considered fully hydro but this machine will be an all around family wagon. ive heard that you cant street fully hydro steering.

quick ques . what does "cucv" mean?

ive heard that you cant street fully hydro steering.

Well you can street full hyd steering but it has to be set up correctly (also expensive). I would just do hyd assist since this is a family wheeler.

CUCV is a one ton (actualy rated at 1-1/4 ton) military chevy truck.

i know that cross over steering is better than stock gm by logic (geometry of drop pitman arm not too good) as well as word of mouth. so the ques is will a stock gm steering box support cross over and will the gm D60 steering knuckles allow for it.


also i had a few other ques on the last page of this thread that remain unanswered if anyone can help.

the 14 bolt is comparable in strength to a dana 70. how many dually dana 60s do you see now what about 14bolts.(redneck measurement of strength and comparison)
you sure your dodge hd isnt a dana 70

im not sure if i own a D70. i assumed it is a D60 cause it looks similiar to the front D60. is their an easy way to tell? this rear has 8 lug drums does that make a difference?