: Breaking News: Batfu Accuses Red's Of "harassment And Intimidation"


PONY_DRIVER
07-25-2007, 08:30 AM
This has got to be the funniest thing ever written. A bunch of government authorized thugs who make their livings by enforcing unConstituional and illegal laws and who use harasment and intimidation as a way of live are being harassed and intimidated. Give me a break. I wish every citizen would harass and intimidate these JBTs and maybe they would remember their place. You will have to go to the link to see the exhibits.

http://waronguns.blogspot.com/2007/07/breaking-news-batfu-accuses-reds-of.html

BREAKING NEWS: BATFU ACCUSES RED'S OF "HARASSMENT AND INTIMIDATION"

I've been sitting on some facts for a few days at the request of Ryan Horsley. BATFU had threatened him that he needed to cease all blogging and keep their agents and inspectors free from being photographed or observed, or they would go to the judge and file a complaint of harassment. Ryan was in a dilemma--he has been single-handedly bearing the burden of his defense against a fe(de)ral government with practically unlimited resources--yet if he continued to allow his persecutors to operate in the dark, that is where they would kill Red's.

The new complaint is calculated to be a death blow to Red's--both financially with additional legal expenses they cannot afford, and by giving the judge an excuse to side with thugs portraying themselves as victims.

Blogger doesn't give me the capability to present .pdf files, so I have converted the documents sent to the judge into jpegs:


"Exhibit A" is a print out of this entry from Red's Blog.

Note assumptions in the accusation--that BATFU now has authority to decide who is an "authorized journalist," that providing oversight of government activities and the identities of those responsible for abuse has "no legitimate purpose but to intimidate and harass," that the distinction between an inspector and an agent is not automatically understood by those outside the agency, and that the only opinion expressed that is cited for judicial cognizance comes from an anonymous comment poster--not from Ryan Horsley. In fact, there is no evidence that the comment in question was not made by a BATFU agent (oh, sorry, "inspector"?), employee, snitch or agent provocateur.

Note that the offending comment has been removed by Ryan. It said this:


This is clearly something Ryan had no control over, makes no specific threat, plus it expresses an opinion that, as much as they don't want to admit it, reflects a sentiment of the agency's creation. But presenting this is designed to prejudice the judge. That said, I too have deleted comments from this blog that I thought crossed a line that would erode the post's credibility or I simply thought was inappropriate.

I repeat my call for a rapid response team of "minuteman" volunteers to make themselves available via a phone tree to go to gun stores being audited, and audit/document/photograph the auditors. Don't let creatures of the shadows hide there--expose them to the light and make them live there--or cravenly slink back under the baseboards where they belong. You can also help by spreading the link to this post to fellow gun owners and letting them know what is going on. BATFU is relying on people remaining uninformed and apathetic.

posted by David Codrea | 11:33 AM

Numidian
07-25-2007, 09:14 AM
Cliff notes?

PONY_DRIVER
07-25-2007, 09:29 AM
That is the cliff's notes.

Are you familiar with the ongoing siege of Red's Trading Post by the BATFE?

The latest installment is that the BATFE filed charges claiming that Red's was harassing and intimidating (BATFE's bread and butter) agents and investigators by recording interviews and conversations etc. Basically the light is one and the cockroaches have their vanaynay's in a bind.

Budd
07-25-2007, 09:36 AM
There is a guy on calguns named Gene that is going after the DOJ and has made them so far remove false *Notices* on the webiste about OLL's and various configurations including the bullet button etc. It is nice to see them getting fed what they dish out............

Numidian
07-25-2007, 09:54 AM
That is the cliff's notes.

Are you familiar with the ongoing siege of Red's Trading Post by the BATFE?

The latest installment is that the BATFE filed charges claiming that Red's was harassing and intimidating (BATFE's bread and butter) agents and investigators by recording interviews and conversations etc. Basically the light is one and the cockroaches have their vanaynay's in a bind.


Ok I didn't see anything abotu Red's Trading Post... I couldn't figure out who "Red's" was in your stuff... I see now... Good shit... I hope they keep it up...

PONY_DRIVER
07-25-2007, 11:29 AM
There is a guy on calguns named Gene that is going after the DOJ and has made them so far remove false *Notices* on the webiste about OLL's and various configurations including the bullet button etc. It is nice to see them getting fed what they dish out............

OLL's? Bullet Button?

Agreed, they deserve everything they have been getting thus far.

Budd
07-25-2007, 12:51 PM
OLL's? Bullet Button?

Agreed, they deserve everything they have been getting thus far.

OLL=Off List Lower AR's
Bullet Button=Bullet is tool to remove a 10 round fixed magazine in California.

Laws state a tool must be used to detach the 10 round fixed mag - the bullet button requires the use of a pointed object - a bullet in this case - to remove the mag.

People have been getting prosecuted since the DOJ had notices up on their website that were not legit. Gene filed motions in which they had 30 days to comply with proof and definitive evidence these were not legal - they removed the notices from the website - but are still prosecuting and confiscating weapons to this date.

Loveday
07-26-2007, 01:59 AM
The link's up on instapundit.com. Perhaps this will bring some much needed attention to the issue.

Numidian
07-26-2007, 04:10 AM
So glad I'm building my evil black rifle soon.... We're gonna need them before much longer....

PONY_DRIVER
07-26-2007, 05:46 AM
OLL=Off List Lower AR's
Bullet Button=Bullet is tool to remove a 10 round fixed magazine in California.

Laws state a tool must be used to detach the 10 round fixed mag - the bullet button requires the use of a pointed object - a bullet in this case - to remove the mag.

People have been getting prosecuted since the DOJ had notices up on their website that were not legit. Gene filed motions in which they had 30 days to comply with proof and definitive evidence these were not legal - they removed the notices from the website - but are still prosecuting and confiscating weapons to this date.


Gotcha thanks. I know that it's California and they do WTF they want, therefor this is a stupid and somewhat rhetorical question; how to they get away with that? Seriously either something is demonstrably illegal or it's not. How in God's name are they prosecuting people for laws that don't exist?

Budd
07-26-2007, 08:22 AM
Gotcha thanks. I know that it's California and they do WTF they want, therefor this is a stupid and somewhat rhetorical question; how to they get away with that? Seriously either something is demonstrably illegal or it's not. How in God's name are they prosecuting people for laws that don't exist?


They have not won any cases yet - but many are pre trial as we speak. There was a group buy on some OLL's - all of them showed up at the FFL - same day they raided him and confiscated all the OLL's. They hold these things until it is time to go to trial - costing the owner tons of $$$ in attorney fees.:mad3:

Notorious IGGY in Nor Cal is on a vendetta as he hates guns. California is weird in the laws they create - they are very specific making it possible for these "exemptions". For example, they banned the .50 BMG by name and EXACT case dimensions - so what did we do??? Made the .510DTC rifles. It is the BMG case shortened .10" and the shoulder angle is steeper at 22* instead of 18*. This round loads the same BMG bullets in a slighlty different fire formed case.:laughing:

PONY_DRIVER
07-26-2007, 10:50 AM
Don't forget the .416 Barrett. :D

Is Notorious IGGY an online poster or a local bureaucrat/politician?

Budd
07-26-2007, 11:04 AM
Don't forget the .416 Barrett. :D

Is Notorious IGGY an online poster or a local bureaucrat/politician?

Ignatius "Iggy" Chin is DOJ up in San Francisco area. He personally testified to the legality of the OLL's and bullet buttons - but continues to seize them as he flip flops back and forth.

He was also caught and found guilty of perjuring himself in an affidavit to get a search warrant to seize more legally owned lowers.

PONY_DRIVER
07-27-2007, 08:39 AM
The rest of the story. BATFU/DoJ Reneged on Deal to Stifle Red's

http://waronguns.blogspot.com/2007/07/batf...tifle-reds.html

BATFU/DoJ Reneged on Deal to Stifle Red's

Yesterday I mentioned:

I've been sitting on some facts for a few days at the request of Ryan Horsley. BATFU had threatened him that he needed to cease all blogging and keep their agents and inspectors free from being photographed or observed, or they would go to the judge and file a complaint of harassment. Ryan was in a dilemma--he has been single-handedly bearing the burden of his defense against a fe(de)ral government with practically unlimited resources--yet if he continued to allow his
persecutors to operate in the dark, that is where they would kill Red's.


Here, as Paul Harvey says, is the rest of the story:

Ryan had been agonizing over this--on the one hand, he wanted to fight for what was right, and keep people informed of what was happening. On the other, the threat of a complaint like the one that was filed would mean a new round of legal expenditures that could break the bank. His legal counsel worked behind the scenes and received assurances from the US Attorney that the complaint would not be filed if Ryan simply did what all clients are advised to do: keep quiet and rely on non-involved observers to do the reporting.

Here's what the government demanded in order to not go to the judge:

No more video recordings of the ATF
No more audio recordings of the ATF
No more pictures of the ATF
No more information being posted about the inspectors
No more publicity
No more blogging
No more letting supporters know when the audits/investigations are being conducted
No allowing supporters to come in contact with the ATF (ie, speak with, video tape, photograph, etc.)

This is the agreement Ryan thought had been negotiated. This is what our government, instituted among men to secure the blessings of liberty, now demands of its citizens. Except US Attorney Deborah Ferguson and her BATFU "clients" reneged on their promise, and filed anyway after Ryan had reluctantly begun holding up his end of the deal and stopped posting.

posted by David Codrea | 12:17 PM

Loveday
08-27-2007, 01:12 PM
The plot thickens. Via Instapundit:

http://www.claytoncramer.com/weblog/2007_08_26_archive.html#8927161511740167830