Anyone have it and if so what are your thoughts on it.

Easy to install?
Works well ?

etc

Thanks

Have them installed and like them alot, but can't say I enjoyed putting them on...its tricky and about 30 mins a tire average...the first one took an hour then the rest went smoothe.....

Those always looked like a great solution to me... though you won't be 'in style' without bolt-rim beaddies. <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

I recollect that there's a shop in the states with exclusive distribution rights. Any idea who that is? Someone from east of the Mississippi, IIRC...

Randii

JD's Offroad & Performance, Bedford Hills, NY (914)666-5337; fax (914)666-5499; http://www.jdsoffroad.com I'm probably going to put a set on my old suburban "Rusty".

Does anyone have more info about them??? I haven't seen them before and they look kind of interesting if they really do work.

I was checking out the page in the link....those things are expensive. Does anyone know if the price is for the rims and all or just the internal part??? 15x10 or 12's are $769........

You could always get Street Locks


Now there's a waste of money......

I was checking out the page in the link....those things are expensive.
Relative to what?

AFAIK, that price does not include the rimes.

Randii

that price does not include the rims. you have to modify your rims (drill another hole) for the bead locks.

I've tracked a lot of info on the web (web info - take it with a grain of salt), this is some of what I've heard:

plus:

locks both beads
can transfer from wheel to wheel
requires less air to air up and down
easier to balance
doesn't leak like many beadlocks

minus:
expense
mounting is PITA
tube pinching can result in holed tube
I have HEARD that you get less 'pucker' on the tire because essentially you are running a run flat inner tube, which limits how much the tire is going to conform around rocks. This is the big negative to me

I've thought about these, and regular beadlocks, but so far my swampers haven't thrown a bead on me......

You forgot one big one, you don't loose as much height when aired down, its the best of both worlds to me...the pinching happens when you don't use the talc at time of install and I bought mine from overseas where you get the value of a dollar, no warranty but who cares...the pucker or rock grip/conformality isn't the same but then again neither is the two inches under the pumkin that you gain...expensive yes, 100% 50 state legal yes, did it 5x and would do it again...won't talk about the balancing issue as you have a rubber plug that offsets allot of weight and you have to counter act that aspect...beadlocks are good but its all a matter of preference....

I see your point (about not losing as much height aired down). I can see how that might offset the loss of 'pucker'. hard to say without testing it myself. Care to lend me yours so i can do some testing? Promise to post the results! <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

I am really leaning towards this system
There isn't much there for 16.5x14

I e-mailed jds and here's their answer

"Your 16.5x14 wheels require a very wide liner which we have been working on improving. Because of that, I am not currently selling the kits for rims widder than 12". If you can use 12" wide rims, I can sell you the kit for $879.99 + frieght."


Coyote, you bought yours overseas, did you order directly from sweden?
I'm wondering on the price diff from jds ( shipping etc.)and hoping they might have them for 16.5x14

looks like they do have them in the 16.5x14 in rim.
tireloc (http://www.tireloc.com/)

4454,450.00 SEK Sweden Kronor=423.868 USD United States Dollars

I say order direct from sweden
only <IMG SRC="smilies/question.gif" border="0"> is how much shipping is

Yep...I have had them before JD's was the distributor, I called them up and shipping wasn't bad, not sure if they signed an exclusive deal with JD's or what, sounds like they might be profitting highly if the sell....mine are 16.5 by 10's.....

I e-mailed sweden.
I'm going to try and get them there

Thanks

Let us know what you think of them if you do get them.

I have a friend who got them direct from Sweden about 5 or more years ago - and I know that since JD's got rights to distribute they kicked the price WAY up <IMG SRC="smilies/pissed.gif" border="0">

As far as pricing - they are not as expensive as you may think. Compare apples to apples - price out standard beadlocks with inner and outer locks and then see if that price is too expensive...

I would however not suggest them for anything smaller than a 38 - since the liner does take up some of the room, with smaller tires when aired down you will lose a good bit of your ability to comprtess the tire. The TireLoc's are great for larger tires.

plus, you can run them with any rim you have, or plan to get - just gotta drill the valve stem hole is all...

The bypass valve is easy to replicate, and the liner is actually a really simple design - if I could find a good material to make them out of I would try making my own <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

I like the idea behind these, , but it sure seems expensive. Do you suppose it would be possible to make your own using an old low profile tire and a tube? Here's what I'm thinking. Stuff the low profile tire inside your big tire. It would be hard as hell to do this, but if the small tire were worn out and fairly pliable you might be able to do it. Then stuff a tube inside the small tire. You also need a some kind of bypass tube to allow you to air up the outer tire, but I wouldn't think it would be that hard to fashion. What do you guys think? Any reason why this wouldn't work?

I considered the tire carcass idea myself...

But first, some theory <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">

The whole purpose of the liner is to "direct" the pressure of the inner tube to the sides, and not radially outward into the tire cavity.

That being said, technically anything that would direct the inner tube to press on the tire at the beads would work.

That being said, I think you *could* use an old tire carcass as your liner, but the biggest problem I see there would be weight. I think it would just be too heavy.

My thoughts were more for building the "C" carcass of the liner out of a good heavy canvass, and swe in a doubled section around the perimeter (what would be the tread area of a tire). Then slide in a sheet of thin but rigit plastic sheeting.

This would get you a liner, and *hopefully* the plastic sheeting would be able to be rigin enough to divert the pressure from the inner tube outwards towards the sidewall...

Any thoughts?

Originally posted by Scout Dude:
<STRONG>Did you notice the---> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <--- that I put in there?

White Knight...This probably does not need to be said, but could you let use know what the Sweden place says? $500.00 doesn't seem to bad for beadlocks.</STRONG>

Yeah, I'll post the answer.

I wish we could get it here.

I'm putting these on 44" boggers
16.5x14 bart wheels

White Knight - email me and I can pass you on to my friend who has been running them for years - he should be able to answer any of your questions <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

First off you are <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0"> crack if you think that would ever work. Don't get me wrong I love to do my own stuff also BUT I think by the time you jack around with that long enough to get it working properly even if you worked at Burger King you could have made enough $$$ to buy the real thing and it will be way lighter. JMHO

Originally posted by DRM:
<STRONG>I considered the tire carcass idea myself...

But first, some theory <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">

The whole purpose of the liner is to "direct" the pressure of the inner tube to the sides, and not radially outward into the tire cavity.

That being said, technically anything that would direct the inner tube to press on the tire at the beads would work.

That being said, I think you *could* use an old tire carcass as your liner, but the biggest problem I see there would be weight. I think it would just be too heavy.

My thoughts were more for building the "C" carcass of the liner out of a good heavy canvass, and swe in a doubled section around the perimeter (what would be the tread area of a tire). Then slide in a sheet of thin but rigit plastic sheeting.

This would get you a liner, and *hopefully* the plastic sheeting would be able to be rigin enough to divert the pressure from the inner tube outwards towards the sidewall...

Any thoughts?</STRONG>

David,

That sounds like it would work, but I would be worried about how to keep it balanced. There's really nothing to keep it centered. Also, would canvas be strong enough even double sewn? Lets say you built this thing out of canvas for a 15x10 rim, and you ended up with a donut that measured 20x10. The circumference would be 62.8 inches, and the outer area would be 628 sq inches. Now, lets say 15 psi is enough to keep your bead seated. With 5 psi of pressure inside the tire, that leaves an over pressure 10 psi the inner tire has to hold back 10 psi x 628 sq inches is 6280 lbs. So that would be like taking a 62x10 in piece of canvas, and placing 3 tons of weight while supporting it by it's long sides. That seems like an awful lot to ask of canvas. Anyone know how strong canvas actually is? Maybe I'm wrong, tow straps can take that kind of stress. Maybe that's the solution, sew a tow strap around the perimeter.

Why do you think the weight would be a problem? What does a small low profile tire carcus weigh? Maybe you could use a mini spare, those don't weigh much. Of course they probably wouldn't work on a wide rim either. You could also shave a regular tire. I would imagine you could cut quite a bit of weight out of one since you aren't worried about tread or the bead area or even if it holds air since it only has to contain the tube. Like I said, I think the biggest problem would be stuffing it inside the other tire.

Originally posted by MattS:
<STRONG>First off you are <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0"> crack if you think that would ever work. Don't get me wrong I love to do my own stuff also BUT I think by the time you jack around with that long enough to get it working properly even if you worked at Burger King you could have made enough $$$ to buy the real thing and it will be way lighter. JMHO</STRONG>

Wow... you expert you - thanks for the tips <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">

I have talked extensively with my friend about this - the friend who has been running TireLocs for years - and he thinks they could be made this way and WORK. So what do you base your info on? Have you actully seen thr TireLoc's??? <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

What is so expensive? $30 worth of canvas, have them sewn together in the pattern, price of inner tubes, I know how to make the bypass valves for under $20... I say I could build what I described above for well under $100...

Originally posted by Grandpa_Jeep:
That sounds like it would work, but I would be worried about how to keep it balanced. There's really nothing to keep it centered.

Not sure I understand.. centered? What I am describing is the EXACT shape and design of the real TireLoc liner, just out of a different material. The Innter tube on the inside will push out in all directions - centering it around the rim, and centering it between the beads too... Could you explain how it could NOT be centered <IMG SRC="smilies/confused.gif" border="0"> I just don't see it...


Also, would canvas be strong enough even double sewn?

Good question - but I figure Canvas is cheap enough I could build one and see <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">


Lets say you built this thing out of canvas for a 15x10 rim, and you ended up with a donut that measured 20x10.

You do not build a doughnut - you build a "C" shape - basicall the same shape as a tire. You would have a width of 10", the "sidewall" would be only about 4-5" tall, so on a 16.5" rim the O.D. of the liner would only be about 20 like you said.

The circumference would be 62.8 inches, and the outer area would be 628 sq inches. Now, lets say 15 psi is enough to keep your bead seated. With 5 psi of pressure inside the tire, that leaves an over pressure 10 psi the inner tire has to hold back 10 psi x 628 sq inches is 6280 lbs. So that would be like taking a 62x10 in piece of canvas, and placing 3 tons of weight while supporting it by it's long sides. That seems like an awful lot to ask of canvas. Anyone know how strong canvas actually is?

Man, you lost me with that math... how can you have that much force on the canvass when the innertube is only pressurized to say 30 psi?


Maybe I'm wrong, tow straps can take that kind of stress. Maybe that's the solution, sew a tow strap around the perimeter.

My friend actually suggested that... but that is the same idea as the thin plastic sheeting I suggested - find some way to fasten the sheet in a loop to stiffen and support the pressure on the outer carcass face.

Can the tirelocs be reasonably balanced? Thats one of the major drawbacks I see to the beadlocks I have.

Pete

Not sure I understand.. centered? What I am describing is the EXACT shape and design of the real TireLoc liner, just out of a different material. The Innter tube on the inside will push out in all directions - centering it around the rim, and centering it between the beads too... Could you explain how it could NOT be centered <IMG SRC="smilies/confused.gif" border="0"> I just don't see it...

I mean radialy. Think about blowing up an inner tube with no tire around it. It usually won't be a perfect circle, as weak spots expand more than stronger spots. It's no problem when it's in the tire because the tire's sidewall keeps one spot from expanding more than others. The tire has a cable around the bead area to keep any one spot from pulling up off the rim. I would think you would need to replicate that to keep the thing round and balanced. Do the production tire locs have anything like that? I've never seen one in person. If not, I guess it's not a problem.


Good question - but I figure Canvas is cheap enough I could build one and see <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Well that's true enough, I suppose there's no harm in trying. Nothing catastrophic would happen if it gives.


You do not build a doughnut - you build a "C" shape - basicall the same shape as a tire. You would have a width of 10", the "sidewall" would be only about 4-5" tall, so on a 16.5" rim the O.D. of the liner would only be about 20 like you said.

I only meant the overall shape, you wouldn't want an inner surface. So lets call it a "tire" shape.

Man, you lost me with that math... how can you have that much force on the canvass when the innertube is only pressurized to say 30 psi?

That's how it works, in our "tire" shape, the only part of it that is subjected to pressure is the "tread" area. The sidewall is held back by the outer tire's sidewall. The tread area however has to hold back the inner tube. If our inner "tire" measures 10x20, then the circumference measures 20 X PI or 20 X 3.14 or 62.8. If it's 10 inches wide then we have 628 sq in. Now if we apply 10 lbs per square inch to 628 square inches then that multiplys out to 6280 lbs. That's just at 10 psi, 30 psi would be 3 times that much. Pnumatic tires are really pretty incredible when you consider the forces that are on them. That's why I like the idea of using one. They're already designed to take that kind of stress and a lot more.

My good friend Mike Papola ran these things for 3 years and I think they suck for the rocks. I spotted his rig in the Warn RCC in JV and Montrose and we lost a bead(s) every year, and killed any chance we might have had. They are also a real PITA to mount. If your running 16.5s (the only reason he used them) get some hummer wheels from Jason Paule, they are more $, but they work. They are probably fine for what they are designed for...snow <IMG SRC="smilies/idea.gif" border="0">

I have mine balanced and its like everything else in the world..."everyones got an opinion" not all based on facts.....

Hey -fish,

How do you run Hummer wheels with their extreme offset? I have ALOT of experience with them and I don't understand why the aftermarket hasn't duplicated something like them in a more common offset/size. Has this guy Paul some how altered the offset?

Mike ordered centers from Jason Paule at Twisted Customs. He then cut out the center, made acrude jig and welded them in. It was a competion rig that never went over 10 mph so a little runout was ok. Jason also sells whole wheels with any offset.

As to the "facts", I wheeled with Mike all over in that rig and we lost a tire more times than I'd like to remember. By the nature of the beast it was never on anything other than tough trails like wrecking ball etc. His rig was heavy and running 39.5s so the kevlar beadlocks got a serious workout.

In their defense, they are tough. We finished most of stage one at Montrose with everything peeled 3/4 of the way off the rim and they got rolled up a waterfall and down the trail to the end of the stage where everything finally just fell off. The inner tube was shredded but the kevlar boot was unharmed.

Originally posted by Grandpa_Jeep:
<STRONG>[b]The tread area however has to hold back the inner tube. If our inner "tire" measures 10x20, then the circumference measures 20 X PI or 20 X 3.14 or 62.8. If it's 10 inches wide then we have 628 sq in. Now if we apply 10 lbs per square inch to 628 square inches then that multiplys out to 6280 lbs. That's just at 10 psi, 30 psi would be 3 times that much. Pnumatic tires are really pretty incredible when you consider the forces that are on them. That's why I like the idea of using one. They're already designed to take that kind of stress and a lot more.</STRONG>

Why are you multiplying? If the inner tube is pressurized to 30 psi - then that is 30 lbs per square inch. The liner around the inner tube is then also seeing 30 lbs. per square inch...

So if course the liner is seeing forces of over 18,000 psi - but that is still only coming out to 30 lbs per square inch of liner <IMG SRC="smilies/confused.gif" border="0">


Anyway, I went looking for materials on my way home tonight... How is this for a plan:

Canvas for the sides and center flat panel. outside the canvas, use looped webbing (seatbelts seem like a good choice) sewn into a loop. I think 3 of them would fit side by side in a 10" rim I bet. Do not stitch the webbing to the cancas, instead sew an outer panel on top of the webbing with stitches on the sides, and between each web (radially).

I figure the webbing would keep the liner from expanding radially, and therfore send all of the inner tube's pressure towards the sidewall...

Also, the canvas/seatbelt combo would be super light-weight <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

So any thoughts on this one?

Originally posted by Diesel Dan:
<STRONG>How do you run Hummer wheels with their extreme offset? </STRONG>

Dually wheel hubs front. Custom Wheel hubs rear with 4" offset.

If you run 1/2 ton brakes they will clear with standard offset. 3/4 and 1 ton don't clear.

This shot shows the wheels on a Dana 70 w/half ton brakes and standard wheel hubs:

http://www.gohumvee.com/images/landcruiser/3link/p3m.jpg

Since that time, I've constructed custom widened wheel hubs which offset the wheels out 4":

http://www.gohumvee.com/images/misc/hubs/thumbs/DSCN0056.jpg

Here is the custom Hummer rim complete 16.5 x 16" with dual beadlocks:

http://www.gohumvee.com/images/misc/widewheel/wheel8.jpg

And a picture of the wheel on the Front Dana 60 with Dually wheel hubs, 1 ton brakes (4" offset outward)

http://www.gohumvee.com/images/misc/wheel/640x480/DSCN0035.jpg

The drawback is weight. Wheel and tire weighs 230 lbs. If you made them 12" wide, you would then need to run a beadlock and a half (approx) or do what I did, and make then 16" wide, and run two beadlocks inside.

Assembly is a b!tch (to get both the beadlocks inserted and centred)

I ran them this year with no issues.

[ 10-13-2001: Message edited by: WOLF359 ]

Tim, going the direction you did with the hummer wheels brings other issues though.
The weight of the wheels brought up steering issues. Even with the hydrolic assist steering you installed, aren't you still needing to upgrade other steering components?

I'm looking at the simplest way to get beadlocked.

Originally posted by white knight:
<STRONG>I'm looking at the simplest way to get beadlocked.</STRONG>

The simplest would be to go to 15" rims and get some MRT beadlocks <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">

But in reality, I think the TireLocs will suit your needs fine...

Originally posted by white knight:
<STRONG>Tim, going the direction you did with the hummer wheels brings other issues though.
The weight of the wheels brought up steering issues. Even with the hydrolic assist steering you installed, aren't you still needing to upgrade other steering components?

I'm looking at the simplest way to get beadlocked.</STRONG>

I didn't post this for you <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0"> You know all about what I did.

My steering issues were more Locker/Full time hubs related than tire weight. Next year, it will be ARB so we'll see how much of a difference it makes.

Originally posted by DRM:
<STRONG>The simplest would be to go to 15" rims and get some MRT beadlocks <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">

But in reality, I think the TireLocs will suit your needs fine...</STRONG>

Maybe simplest wasn't my best choice of words
<IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

Thanks David

I know what you mean - you want the least hassle, and relatively most cost efficient method you can go with - right?

If you can swallow the TireLoc price, I am pretty sure they will serve your needs.

on the mean time - are you having a problem losing beads often? I still don't see why some careful welding of a bead around the rim to make your own "safety bead" would not help 100% better than stock 16.5" rim bead seats...

White Knight- Because this would be for a mud truck, where airing down it not what your so worried about, why couldn't you just run tubes or screw the tire to the rim, like the drag race guys sometimes do?

I've never lost a bead yet but then again the lowest tire presuure I've gone down to is 15 psi.

The other two suggestions might work but I don't want to strictly make this a mud truck. I'd like to have an overall wheeling truck.

Heard from a couple on the tireloc system and I'm leaning towards it.

Now it's just a matter of getting it and installing it.

Let's see how it goes.

Thanks for all the feedback.

If your not running on the street then just make your own bead locks. Go to a fab shop with a plasma or laser cutter cnc machine and have them cut out the circles, then goto a shop that repairs mag wheels and get them to put your wheels in the lathe and cut off your wheel lips and take them home weld them up. Make a pattern drill the holes out and bolt them up. Just tack it all up and then do short passes until all the wheels are welded up. A bit of silicone around the welds and your done.
If you and a couple buddies did this it be pretty cheap.Its what I 'm going to do when I get some money to buy some all terrains to run on my truck daily.

For those that were interested, here is the e-mail I received from Tireloc -Sweden

Unfortunately JD´s were right, we don´t have Tirelocs for 14" wide rims
right now. Up to 12" wide rims we´re fine, on the wider ones we are testing
a different material. When we are satisfied with the new design they will
be one the market. Should hopefully happens in the not so distant future.
Please check back with us again.

I appreciate your inquiry and looking forward to hear from you again.

Best regards,
Olle Hogberg
Tireloc, Sweden
--------

I can wait till next spring on these. If they don't have it available , I will be looking at other ways of doing this.

Maybe try and do our own.
We'll see

I was going to get a set, until I heard about problems with the rubber inner tubes getting holes from daily driver milage. Might still do it, now that I have a second vehicle.

Originally posted by Drew Persson:
<STRONG>I was going to get a set, until I heard about problems with the rubber inner tubes getting holes from daily driver milage. Might still do it, now that I have a second vehicle.</STRONG>

Did you hear this from more than one TireLoc owner, or is this second hand info, or what? I have never heard of it myself...

Not sure if my buddies were "Tireloc" brand or something else. His sponsor told him to stop running them so he let them have them to dispose of! I would have loved to have them. He's sponsored by Goodyear and uses these really trick yellow label MTR's! They said the liners are too heavy so don't use them! Anyway they are easy to use as he has beadlock rims anyway.

Jason <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Brutpwr:
<STRONG>They said the liners are too heavy so don't use them!</STRONG>

Who is "they", and "too heavy" for what use? Sheesh... is it too much to ask that you people share specific info <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">

David I would think after reading the post he is talking about the goodyear guys. They are the sponsors and all.
Now this is the first time I've responded to one of your posts....does this mean that I'll get my head bit off????????
Rich Klein
CalROCS

P.S. How's life on the soap opera board???

Originally posted by Big Rich:
<STRONG>David I would think after reading the post he is talking about the goodyear guys. .</STRONG>
I thought so - but was not sure if he meant the guy who was running them, or the people who told him to take them off...

Regardless, that still leaves unanswered the main part - "too heavy" for what?

I have MRT beadlocks, and I find it hard to belive that the Tireloc system adds more weight than adding 2 steel rings, 18 bolts, and 18 nut-serts <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by DRM:
<STRONG>Why are you multiplying? If the inner tube is pressurized to 30 psi - then that is 30 lbs per square inch. The liner around the inner tube is then also seeing 30 lbs. per square inch...

So if course the liner is seeing forces of over 18,000 psi - but that is still only coming out to 30 lbs per square inch of liner <IMG SRC="smilies/confused.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Think of it this way. Could I support 30 lbs concentrated into a square inch on the palm of my hand? Could I support 30 lbs concentrated into a square inch on the palm of my hand? Sure, no problem. Now suppose you inflate the tire on your truck to 30 psi and run over your hand with it. Your hand will be crushed even though no more than 30 psi was applied to it.

That's the point I was trying to make, 30 psi over a large area is not trivial. The canvas has to hold back quite a bit of force. Maybe I'm all wet here and canvas is more than suitable, but I thought I'd run the numbers anyway.


Originally posted by DRM:
<STRONG>Anyway, I went looking for materials on my way home tonight... How is this for a plan:

Canvas for the sides and center flat panel. outside the canvas, use looped webbing (seatbelts seem like a good choice) sewn into a loop. I think 3 of them would fit side by side in a 10" rim I bet. Do not stitch the webbing to the cancas, instead sew an outer panel on top of the webbing with stitches on the sides, and between each web (radially).

I figure the webbing would keep the liner from expanding radially, and therfore send all of the inner tube's pressure towards the sidewall...

Also, the canvas/seatbelt combo would be super light-weight <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

So any thoughts on this one?</STRONG>

Sounds like a good plan to me. Give it a shot and see what happens. Just don't inflate it without a tire encaseing it in case it blows.

Originally posted by Grandpa_Jeep:
Think of it this way. Could I support 30 lbs concentrated into a square inch on the palm of my hand? Could I support 30 lbs concentrated into a square inch on the palm of my hand? Sure, no problem. Now suppose you inflate the tire on your truck to 30 psi and run over your hand with it. Your hand will be crushed even though no more than 30 psi was applied to it.

WOAH!!!!!
I think you are lost <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">
If you run over your hand with a truck, you do not have 30 psi. on it, you have the WEIGHT OF THE TRUCK! <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0">

That's the point I was trying to make, 30 psi over a large area is not trivial.

Again, I think you misunderstand... 30 (or whatever prefix number you put there) psi is ALWAYS over the same area - one square inch <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">

[/b]The canvas has to hold back quite a bit of force. Maybe I'm all wet here and canvas is more than suitable, but I thought I'd run the numbers anyway.[/b]

Not that you are all wet, I just think you are a wee bit confused <IMG SRC="smilies/confused.gif" border="0">

That liner will only ever see 30 psi. There is no way it can have any more force on it unless you completely deflate the tire and put the weight of the truck on it.

Sounds like a good plan to me. Give it a shot and see what happens. Just don't inflate it without a tire encaseing it in case it blows.

Again, 30 psi is 30 psi. Whether the tire is there or not does not really matter, except that since it is made to expand towards the bead you kinda need the tire there to have something for it to press against...

Seatbelts should be more than up to the task (if sewn properly) - consider they are designed to restrain 250+ lbs of homan weight in a collision (think of the forces of that) I am not too worried about a measly 30 psi.

Originally posted by DRM:
<STRONG>
Again, I think you misunderstand... 30 (or whatever prefix number you put there) psi is ALWAYS over the same area - one square inch <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0"> </STRONG>

Yes, but that 30 psi DOES support your truck. Really it does, remove the air and the tire collaspes to the rim. The tire applys 30 psi (or whatever the pressure inside is) towards the ground, and that's what supports your truck. You multiply the contact patch by the pressure in the tire and you will have approximate weight the tire is supporting. Here's an article (http://www.howstuffworks.com/question506.htm) explaining what I'm talking about.


Originally posted by DRM:
<STRONG>
Not that you are all wet, I just think you are a wee bit confused <IMG SRC="smilies/confused.gif" border="0">

That liner will only ever see 30 psi. There is no way it can have any more force on it unless you completely deflate the tire and put the weight of the truck on it.</STRONG>

No David, I think you are the one who is confused. You are confusing force with pressure. You are right, the canvas will not see any more than 30 psi of pressure but unless you only make it one square inch, it will see a lot more [i]force[/].

Originally posted by DRM:
<STRONG>Again, 30 psi is 30 psi. Whether the tire is there or not does not really matter, except that since it is made to expand towards the bead you kinda need the tire there to have something for it to press against...</STRONG>

I meant do it inside a tire for safety reasons. 30 psi could still cause quite an explosion, and the tire would contain it nicely.

Originally posted by DRM:
<STRONG>Seatbelts should be more than up to the task (if sewn properly) - consider they are designed to restrain 250+ lbs of homan weight in a collision (think of the forces of that) I am not too worried about a measly 30 psi.</STRONG>


Seatbelts do sound like a good cheap solution. Might be kind of hard to find in long enough lengths though. Is there anyplace that sells nylon belts in whatever lengths?

I'm with Grandpa Jeep on this one. If you drive over your hand, you put 30 psi on it all right, but at ~32 square inches it supports 960 lbs, or about a quarter of the weight of the truck. If you pressurize a room to 30 psi and use a 4x8 piece of plywood to try to seal it, that standard sheet of plywood would be asked to withstand 138,240 pounds of force. NOT BLOODY LIKELY!!! While the same plywood will easily withstand 30 psi over a smaller area. We exploit this in diamond anvil cells all the time; you can put megabars of pressure in a tiny area (tens, maybe a few hundreds of square microns) and contain it just fine. Trying to get a significant volume of material to that pressure requires <IMG SRC="smilies/nuke.gif" border="0">

Hello guys.... Just wanted to mention that I am VERY impressed with all the knowledge and information the people share on this site.

Just to clarify things so everyone understands. JD's Off Road is the distributer for TireLoc beadlocks her in the US. We have been selling them since Jan 2000 and have been working to improve them whenever possible. First - we are the ones that told Olle in Sweden not to use the liner he was making on the 14" wide rims due to the extreme width. He is working on new versions.
2nd) We have a new supplier of HD tubes instead of the regular car ones that were originally used. This can be why people are having tube problems from sets they purchased direct from Sweden years ago. The ones we use are custome made of us by a manufacturer that has tube manufacturing contracts with the US Army and Boeing and Goodyear for airplane tires! They are a much thicker tube with more durrability to handle the stresses of rockcrawling.

3rd) As far as price -- I have read several times that purchasing them driect was cheaper. I just want everyone to realize that we DO NOT make alot of money selling these ! Taking into consideration the high exchange rate changes over the years, the dollar value has fluctuated so at one time they were only about $500 USD, but now, that is different. I also have to pay import taxes and duties on my larger orders, that a single private purchase might not have had to deal with. Also, sourcing out these other tubes has increased the price.

4th) Durrability - In MY expierence, the TireLoc system the best when the installer makes certain the liner and tube are not twisted or pinched and that plenty of power is used to keep things lubed up. I've only had a few failures and most are due to an old problem that has been fixed. The liners have been redesigned to use a lower flap of material to help keep the tube from hemoraging out. The other important factor is maintaining the correct tube / tire pressures. If the tube are to low, they can twist or move, and if the difference between the tube and tire is too extreme, the pressure causes problems.

I personally run them on a 16.5 x 12 steel rim, with 44" boggers and have NEVER had a failure.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to call me at JD's at 914-666-5337 or email me. chris@jdsoffroad.com.

700$ for my 15x8 rims is a lot of money. i dont ever plan on running a tire larger than a 36 on my samurai extended wheelbase dana-44 setup. I would love to run these. do the guys in sweden realize they could make a killing on volume if they dropped the price. metal bead-locks are nice and all but these have potential!! someone needs to wise up because 4 kevlar bags cannot cost that much to have made!!! that price is out of line!

if the price came down 200-300$ it would be a lot more viable!!

last fall in Attica I was asking Charlie how he liked these on his Crusher (Charlie is JD's for those who don't know) Charlie had glowing reports about there benefits.

This was a Ramsey series Comp and Charlie was running well, solidly in 2nd place. On the very last event, a mud couurse where he should have dominated with 44" boggers some ponies and rear steer to mess with the ruts- he lost a bead, got stuck, timed out, slipped to 4th place and lost a bunch of cash and contingency.

That, obviously, was not the time to ask him what went wrong- but Ok, a year later- how'd you lose a bead just running in the mud like that- it wasn't near as much as it would see in the rocks?

I read all the posts and here's what I can add to the subject. First of all are they worth the cost? Yes. Unlike regular beadlocks, the only thing that can be damaged is a $20 innertube-tranfer them from vehicle to vehicle, rim to rim. Legal in all states? Yes. Can they be balanced? Well as good as a 44 can be. The inner liner holds the innertube in a perfect circle and snug up against the wheel and tire. Does the innertube take up too much space as to not allow the tire to conform around rocks? I'd say on 36 and smaller tires -yes ,but on larger tires the innerliner allows the weight of the vehicle to sit on a wrinkled up bogger and grip like no regular beadlock could ever. Are they hard to install-first one-yes, but they make mounting 12" wide tires much easier by allowing the innertube to seat the beads. Now are they perfect? NO-Like everything in the offroad world-they can be improved apon. I did get a couple of holes during the first year in the innertubes. This is because some tires have a rough inside surface and an edge would wear a tiny hole. JD's have much better and bigger innertubes that are thicker to start with but you should get a large truck innertube and cut it down the outside diameter and stretch it over the rim/inside bead area before installing the regular innertube. After I did this 4 years and counting-no holes. The extra valve stem is crap-unless they resently changed it. TireLoc wants you to drill your extra hole on the edge of the rim where rocks will eat it for lunch. I can show everyone how to make your own bypass valve for less that $7 each and still keep it out of harms way. Tireloc's are the only beadlocks you can really run with 0-2psi and the bead can't be broken-not that I run that low, but you could. Hope this info. helps. Steve

Originally posted by Titanic
Legal in all states? Yes... Steve

I hope you aren't implying that bead locks aren't legal in all states. If so, where's the evidence? If you find it, don't tell anyone else but me, OK? I'll make sure they know ;D

Originally posted by Magoo


I hope you aren't implying that bead locks aren't legal in all states. If so, where's the evidence? If you find it, don't tell anyone else but me, OK? I'll make sure they know ;D

Magoo, these particular beadlocks fit inside the tire and use a standard rim, so therefore they are street legal in all states.

Originally posted by Grandpa Jeep


Magoo, these particular beadlocks fit inside the tire and use a standard rim, so therefore they are street legal in all states.

Read again. The point he is making is that no one has proof than ANY kind of beadlock are illegal to run on the street.

go2guy i had some bad luck that day and i actually had a tube failure at that point.you saw the rest ! as far as the tireloc goes i still think they are good but only for certain applicattions non competition ! rec 4 wheeling is great and i do see lots of benefits to running them but now i run 17 inch allied monster wheels with traditional bead locks on bfg krawlers.the main reason for my reply is to say that i do not own jds just merly help out a good friend who helps me . I wheel 4 fun and am no way in this to make any money!its a hobby /obsession /well all right PROBLEM and i can deal with it! well thats all i have to say ken i hope to see you at the supercrawl ill be there. see ya charlie
Originally posted by G02Guy
last fall in Attica I was asking Charlie how he liked these on his Crusher (Charlie is JD's for those who don't know) Charlie had glowing reports about there benefits.

This was a Ramsey series Comp and Charlie was running well, solidly in 2nd place. On the very last event, a mud couurse where he should have dominated with 44" boggers some ponies and rear steer to mess with the ruts- he lost a bead, got stuck, timed out, slipped to 4th place and lost a bunch of cash and contingency.

That, obviously, was not the time to ask him what went wrong- but Ok, a year later- how'd you lose a bead just running in the mud like that- it wasn't near as much as it would see in the rocks?

Originally posted by TDW


Read again. The point he is making is that no one has proof than ANY kind of beadlock are illegal to run on the street.

My mistake, you're right, that is what he said.

Glad to hear from you! I've seen pics of your new ride, looks sweet! See you in Farmington in 10 days or so!