I was thinking about some progressive rate coils for my fullsize bronco. Cage has some. I have gotten two negative repsonses about progressives. Bronco hut says the soft section settles and you loose ride height. Deavers say they collapse. I beleive if the softer rate was stiff enough this would not happen. Cage cannot give me the specs on their coils. I did a follow-up e-mail and hope I can get an answer from Jim.

Wild horses has progressive rate coils with one step. They report 236lbs for the soft section and 375lbs for the stiffer section. These would be too soft for my liking since I drive it daily and drive to trails (basing this on my current old style Superflex springs that are too soft at 200lbs).

Anyone have the experience of collapsing/loosing ride hieght on the softer portion of a progressive rate coil or specifically Cage coils?????

I am curious about progressive rate springs too. I will be four linking the rear of my truck this winter and am considering progressive coils. I was looking at the ones James Duff sells. I have no idea what the spring rates are. They indicate that there are three stages of wraps. http://www.jamesduff.com/eb/suspension_components.html

http://www.jamesduff.com/images/eb/5107.jpg

I am curious about progressive rate springs too. I will be four linking the rear of my truck this winter and am considering progressive coils. I was looking at the ones James Duff sells. I have no idea what the spring rates are. They indicate that there are three stages of wraps. http://www.jamesduff.com/eb/suspension_components.html

http://www.jamesduff.com/images/eb/5107.jpg

Duff couldn't tell me the rates. I was told it did not matter in a progressive rate coil, yank yank! He did beleive thier spring was stiffer than Wild Horses. Wild Horses claims a two stage spring at 236lbs and 375lbs. I found the old Superflex coils are too light at 200lbs. My rig would collapse the Wild Horses first stage. If there is three sections, on the Duffs, it would seem they could give you the spring rate for each section. The progressive rate springs for EB are probably too light for the front of a fullsize like mine. They might work on the rear where there is less weight (mine is bobbed).

Maybe you could call James Duff's and see if they could get the rates??? I'll try again later.

I run Wildhorse 5.5 EB coils.

I contacted Cage a while back, I gave them the rates that I got from the WH coils. and wanted to know how they compare to their 5.5" EB Coil, and this is what I got.

Free length is 23.625". Spring rates we do not give out but the initial rates are softer than the rates you listed and the final rate is higher. Our coils are progressive coils not dual rate (which a lot of people call progressive) so there are multiple rates throughout the coil spring.

To help you in your process generally our 5.5" lift coil will sit at 18.25-18.5" at ride height on an Early Bronco with a small block V8 and 16" on a Fullsize 78/79 truck with a big block. Very much generalities.

Joel H. Thanks! This is helpful.

I was told by cage that their 5.5" coil would sit at 19". A member of Fullsizebronco.com says they started at 19 and settled to 17. He runs a 351W and no winch. I could beleive 16 with a big block. Multiple rates or not won't work for me, too low. They also told me they were made for EB's which are lighter. I think they will come out with springs for fullsize Broncs as they are working on a Solid Axle Swap kit for them.

progressive don't really have a place in rockcrawling but street or prerunning they would be good.

I have been running Cage 4" coils (5.5" EB coils) on my '79 Ford for a couple months now and really like them. I have thrashed them hard for over 1,000mi and plenty of trail miles and the settling is not noticeable. They flex great (see pics in my build thread) and also work really well for the high-speed stuff. If you know the coil diameter, spring diameter, and section height you can calculate the spring rates yourself, I forget the exact formula, but I think theres a link on the 4WOR website. I'm very pleased with my Cage coils and would reccomend them to anyone.

Settling has nothing to do with rates and everything to do with quality of the spring. A lower rate spring will not settle any more or faster than a higher rate spring unless it is inferior quality. I run CAGE 3.5" springs on my EB and like them a lot, much better than the JD 3.5" "progressive" rate springs that were on there before.

I have been running Cage 4" coils (5.5" EB coils) on my '79 Ford for a couple months now and really like them. I have thrashed them hard for over 1,000mi and plenty of trail miles and the settling is not noticeable. They flex great (see pics in my build thread) and also work really well for the high-speed stuff. If you know the coil diameter, spring diameter, and section height you can calculate the spring rates yourself, I forget the exact formula, but I think theres a link on the 4WOR website. I'm very pleased with my Cage coils and would reccomend them to anyone.

I already pulled the trigger on the newer 4" Superflex springs from Bronco Graveyard. If I don't like them I will try the Cage Springs.

Settling has nothing to do with rates and everything to do with quality of the spring. A lower rate spring will not settle any more or faster than a higher rate spring unless it is inferior quality. I run CAGE 3.5" springs on my EB and like them a lot, much better than the JD 3.5" "progressive" rate springs that were on there before.


I got ya, but I got to beleive that if you put a spring that is not designed for the weight of your rig, it will settle more than one that has the spring rate to support the rig. I know the front of my bronc come in around 2,600lbs. What weight is on the EB's front axle? that is my concern about the cage spring and I have heard they settled more than wnated on a fullsize. They may have worked that out or changed manufacturers. I don't know. I do know they have not designed the spring for the fullsize.

progressive don't really have a place in rockcrawling but street or prerunning they would be good.

I have to say I don't agree with this. I run wild horse 5.5's up front and 3.5's out back. they ride like a caddy down the trail and flex pretty good.

single rate coils are yester years technology.

Yes the variable rate springs tend to sag more quickly, but if you engineer it right, you will plan for some spring sag. My springs flex way better now than they did a year ago when i put them in. I lost about 3/4" in ride hight and gained several inches in flex.

On 36's, with radius arms (wristed as well)

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f138/87pathy/DSCF1117.jpg

progressive don't really have a place in rockcrawling but street or prerunning they would be good.

Why do you think that?
I have been running a few different Pro. coils over the years and love them.

progressive don't really have a place in rockcrawling but street or prerunning they would be good.

x 2. Have used the WH rockcrawler coils and the cage coils and I'm not a fan of either. Now I'm debating over whether to go with a set of BC coils, having a set of single rate coils made, or just going coilover. Probably just order some BC coils.

x 2. Have used the WH rockcrawler coils and the cage coils and I'm not a fan of either. Now I'm debating over whether to go with a set of BC coils, having a set of single rate coils made, or just going coilover. Probably just order some BC coils.


Look at these: http://broncograveyard.com/bronco/c-468

Look at these: http://broncograveyard.com/bronco/c-468

I've looked at those, and I do believe they use the same coils for the fullsize bronco and eb, but different lift heights... meaning stiff.

I've looked at those, and I do believe they use the same coils for the fullsize bronco and eb, but different lift heights... meaning stiff.


300lbs/inch too stiff?

320 according to their site, and yes.

320 according to their site, and yes.

That doesn't make sense becasue the 78/79 SuperFLEX spring is rated at 300lbs. The 320lb spring is the SuperLIFT spring. I am talking the SuperFLEX spring. The Superflex spring will be softer. At least you would have a comparison with the BC spring. Call 'em, they don't list the rate on the EB Superflex springs.

SUPER Flex or Lift. It gets so confusing.

most of the guys here run spring rates waaayyy too low
no way would I try and run a 200# spring, you would end up putting the swaybar back on to the truck to be able to drive it.

I've been trying to research all these various EB and fullsize springs for awhile now, and all of the figures for them seem to be all over the damn place :rolleyes:

From some extremely rough measurements on a few rigs that I only estimated the frontend weight on, the Superflex coils seem to be somewhere around the vicinity of 250-260lbs, but I don't know if they were the "200lb" ones or the "300lb" ones (my hunch is they were the "200s").
Anyone know the wire size on them by chance?


Yes, rate should have nothing to do with settling. A good quality spring usually is "preset" during manufacture (fully compressing it to where all the coils are touching), and should not lose any significant amount of it's height over time.

progressive don't really have a place in rockcrawling but street or prerunning they would be good.

X3
Prog coils don't let the tire "stuff" up as well during flex.

do what?

Prog coils don't let the tire "stuff" up as well during flex.

I could prolly squish them a bit more and that's it. I'd like to try a linear coil to see how it compares

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p198/Villanmotorsports/BIV%20Bronco/MoreBIV370.jpg

I have read many coil threads in the Ford section over the past couple of years, and it always amazes me how the opinions are all over the place. Since most people will like their 'new' coils, and usually don't have anything to compare them too(I'm am in this boat too, and run BC's), I decided to count the negative comments up so far in this thread.

Cage = 1
Duff = 1
WH = 1
BC = 0

If you where unhappy with a certain manufactures coil spring, what was it that you didn't like? Too stiff, too soft etc?

just a hint for ya
none of those guys manufacture springs
I have seen the Duff truck up here in Canada picking up springs at Ottoman/MacAllister spring

just a hint for ya
none of those guys manufacture springs
I have seen the Duff truck up here in Canada picking up springs at Ottoman/MacAllister spring

BC Broncos gets their springs from Deaver. The specific companies just get an outside source to make the springs to their specifications because they don't have to tooling to do it themselves. Nothing new with that.

BC Broncos gets their springs from Deaver. The specific companies just get an outside source to make the springs to their specifications because they don't have to tooling to do it themselves. Nothing new with that.

Yup JBG's uses Deaver.

I have the old JBG's Superflex coils rated at 200lbs. Make sense to me in that the front of my rig is about 2,400lbs, without the unsprung weight, and the rig compressd the spring 6" (6X200)X2=2,400lbs)

I'll report back on the 4" Superflex new springs which are rated at 300lb. If I am correct, they should compress 4". I should have them monday:bounce2::bounce2::bounce2: (2,400/300)/2=4"

Blown Did you see my PM I sent you??

:D

We have run the Wild Horses 5.5" early bronco springs in our 79 race bronco. They worked okay as long as you have enough shock. The problem with them in this application is they coil bind just before hitting the stock bump stops. Coil bind or close to it will make springs fail early. We also have a set of Bronco graveyard coils (you can get them from Deaver too.) and didnt install them with the stock buckets because they would have reached coil bind worse than the wild horses springs. If you dont bottom it out or race it you may get away with these springs for years. The single rates we got from National worked the best with fewer coils. I think we got four seasons of racing out of them before they both broke. 300 lbs is really stiff if you are trying to get much travel out of it. ( unless it is like 6000lbs maybe) We run less than 200lbs now for most of the travel but a lot of shock.

We have run the Wild Horses 5.5" early bronco springs in our 79 race bronco. They worked okay as long as you have enough shock. The problem with them in this application is they coil bind just before hitting the stock bump stops. Coil bind or close to it will make springs fail early. We also have a set of Bronco graveyard coils (you can get them from Deaver too.) and didnt install them with the stock buckets because they would have reached coil bind worse than the wild horses springs. If you dont bottom it out or race it you may get away with these springs for years. The single rates we got from National worked the best with fewer coils. I think we got four seasons of racing out of them before they both broke. 300 lbs is really stiff if you are trying to get much travel out of it. ( unless it is like 6000lbs maybe) We run less than 200lbs now for most of the travel but a lot of shock.


Thanks for the input. I bought 'em and am committed to trying them. My other thought was as you have done, add a shock and better bump stops. I have Rancho 9000's on the highest dampening setting. It is not enough and comes down pretty hard on the cheapy 4" urethane bump stops.

I am looking for a compromise for faster running and crawlin'. It may be that I choose a spring for what I run. They are fast and easy to swap out.

I have read many coil threads in the Ford section over the past couple of years, and it always amazes me how the opinions are all over the place. Since most people will like their 'new' coils, and usually don't have anything to compare them too(I'm am in this boat too, and run BC's), I decided to count the negative comments up so far in this thread.

Cage = 1
Duff = 1
WH = 1
BC = 0

If you where unhappy with a certain manufactures coil spring, what was it that you didn't like? Too stiff, too soft etc?


Both CAGE and WH coils were too stiff for me, even with a winch up front. And the progressive rate coils allow for very little uptravel before they bind. Besides, I only want one rate...I don't want it to get stiffer through the travel, I'm not prerunning...I'm rockcrawling. I've installed a set of duff 3.5" coils on a friend's mostly stock eb (no bumper or winch) and they don't really flex at all. Though his front suspension is mostly stock as well, so it's not a great comparison. Maybe one day I'll get all of my coils together and measure wire diameter and spring rate.

My other thought was as you have done, add a shock and better bump stops. I have Rancho 9000's on the highest dampening setting. It is not enough and comes down pretty hard on the cheapy 4" urethane bump stops.



I ran ito the same problem with the 5.5" WH coils. I had the RS9000's cranked and it was just not enough. I also didn't want to re-install the sway bar. My truck is also a DD, so some street manners were a must. I've got all 4 front shocks set to around 5-6 and they behave very well on the street and off road. I'm useing RS99297 for the front shocks (12" Stroke). I'll be getting a set of 14" travel ones for the front if I can ever get ahold of the springs I want. hint hint! :dustin:

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p198/Villanmotorsports/BIV%20Bronco/front%20susp/front55.jpg

Superflex Springs

------------------ Old------New
Wire diameter-----21/32----3/4
Loaded------------19"------20"
Loose------------23.75"----23.5"
Coils---------------13------14

I cut two coils off the old style 6" Superflex springs whick lowered it a couple of inches. So this is not a direct comparison of the old 4" Superflex springs to the new 4" springs. The new ones compress an 1.25" less. I thought they would compress 4". They will also probably settle about a half inch.

Regarding the difference in wire diameter, 1/32" could easily be accounted for by new paint. 1/16th diameter couldn't make that much difference in spring rate but the new ones have one more coil.

They don't sit down as much as the Cage progressive rate. I am glad of that.


No flex time now, flex ya laters.:beer

Sipping on a few cold ones here Friday evening and figured I would throw up the spring rates for the ones I have. I am currently running the BC Broncos 5.5" no winch coils on the front of my rig (see sig). My buddy just gave me a set of stock XJ coils to check out for possibly using them in the rear. Calculating spring rate is very easy.

Here is the formula:
k = (G*(d)^4)/(8*n*(D)^3)

k = spring rate
G= Torsional modulus for steel (11,250,000 lb/in^2)
d = wire diameter
n = number of active coils
D = Mean coil diameter

BC Broncos 5.5" 'no winch' coils = 227 lb/in

Stock XJ front coils = 153 lb/in

where do you find the number for G, is taht a constant?

where do you find the number for G, is taht a constant?

Yes. Except everywhere I look states 11.5x10^6 rather than the 11.25 that he has.


Anyway, fwiw, I just ordered two foa 16" coilovers with 350 over 450 coils giving a 195lb/in primary rate. We'll see how they work out...I'm done with eb parts house coils.

whats the /\6 mean? to the power of?