So has he? I doubt it... This seems completely INSANE to me... This guy is closing down over 50% of his forest, and he doesn't have the you-know-whats to face the public. :shaking:

He'll have plenty of time for vacations once he has 50% less to deal with, right? :rolleyes:

In any media contact with TV and/or newspapers, this should certainly be brought to their attention, IMO...

According to the USFS people running the meetings, he is not there because his father is very ill, he is with his family, not on "Vacation".

I find it difficult to criticize him for not being at the meetings under those circumstances.

It is an extremely frustrating situation. Majority of the questions we heard last night could not be answered by Neilo and his side kick. If Ramio is the decision maker, we need the opportunity to question his thoughts publicly. When in our 45 day period is the public going to be able to have an open forum with him?

According to the USFS people running the meetings, he is not there because his father is very ill, he is with his family, not on "Vacation".

I find it difficult to criticize him for not being at the meetings under those circumstances.

Family is important but so are "OUR" forests. He has not been to any of the meetings in the last 2 weeks. If he can not perform his job he needs to step down and let someone who cares take it over. My mom passed last October and I only missed a week of work. He needs to suck it up and let us hear from us first hand.:mad3:

Jack

I have spoken with Jason on this issue. I told him that if Ramiro cannot attend due to family emergancy that his suporvisor needs to be there to replace him...by the weay I did email Ramiro's boss (Bernie Weingart, R5 regional forester) and ask that he attend the Pleasant Hill meeting since he works out of Vallejo
Jason truely does not know if Ramiro would make last nights meeting or the one tomorrow night. His father lives in San Diego

I hate what is happening as much as the rest of us, But wish Ramiro and his father the best of luck with his health

Rick

First, we are sorry to hear of his fathers condition:(.

Now...he has missed every meeting so far. With this last one being close to a major airport ( oakland or SFO), I don't undestand why he can't fly up for the meeting and return down south. He would be gone maybe 6 hrs.

He needs to be there to answer the questions, that Jason and the others cannot:shaking:

...if Ramiro cannot attend due to family emergancy that his suporvisor needs to be there to replace him...

Rick

Ain't that the truth. ENF is the "go to" for all the Forests nationwide...the benchmark, if you will. IMO freaking (Interior Secretary) Dirk Kempthorne should be heard in a public forum on this topic, much less an absentee Forest Supervisor or his boss.

Remember that this guy is new to the forest. He has NO ground time so the only thing he will be able to grasp is our passion for access. I will bet you he gets that message. Be sure to state it in your comments. The thing he will HAVE to do is trust that the team members give him Honest, UNBIASED opinions so that he can make an informed decision. What I beleive is that the opinions have been BIASED in favor of the Lawsuit.

The EDNF has had a major turnover of personnel, of the team members that have made the decisions to date, most are retired or went elsewhere. Of the people in the front of the room only Lester has been there for a while.

Seems to me like a cut and run situation. The people left are only the scapegoats.

if Ramiro cannot attend due to family emergancy that his suporvisor needs to be there to replace him...
Rick

Agreed again. Thats BS. If i miss more than 3 days of work i have to fly in a replacement. But this guy can't show up for a meeting?

Sorry to hear about the family issues, but come on.

I need to wheel more in california before its all closed

Remember that this guy is new to the forest. He has NO ground time so the only thing he will be able to grasp is our passion for access.


So who's "bright idea" was it to close the forest? I was under the impression it was Ramiro... If it WAS Ramiro, re-read what you just wrote, and tell me how you can't get so fighting mad. If he ISN'T the one who came up with this bright idea, THAT person SHOULD DAMN WELL BE AT THESE MEETINGS!!!!!!!!!

Ramiro Villavlazo is the Chief -- his team is supposed to develop a plan and recommend it to him... then he decides how hew wants to proceed from there and works it with his team.

Not having the Forest Supervisor at these meetings sucks hard, but not having the former Route Dez coordinator, Tony Scardina, sucks worse. I understand that the Forest Service moves staff around just like most agencies, but they shot themselves in the foot on this one. :( Tony's Inter-Disciplinary Team is still there, but they are dodging questions, IMHO... we need the team captain back on the field.

The problem is, Eldorado National Forest used a large caliber shell to shoot themselves in the foot and we, motorized recreation, are standing down-range of their self-inflicted bad call... and our access may be influence by it unless we redouble our efforts to WRITE SUBSTANTIVE LETTERS and flood them with comment from responsible recreation.

As much as I hate it, their process is mostly immune to this type of appeal or reason (different people, not enough time, crappy notice, etc.) and we have to play by their rulebook to get an outcome that fits our needs. Sure, I wish I had been even more involved with the Sierra Nevada Framework or the LRMP, or the Route Dez process in Washington, but I just wrote a few letters and audited the process... and now the results are on record, and we have to play by these rules.

So here's my advice - BE PISSED (I am!)... but channel that into affirmative action, and WRITE SPECIFIC LETTERS, asking for specific routes to be kept open and providing specific reasons, while substantiating your history of use.

Randii

So who's "bright idea" was it to close the forest? I was under the impression it was Ramiro... If it WAS Ramiro, re-read what you just wrote, and tell me how you can't get so fighting mad. If he ISN'T the one who came up with this bright idea, THAT person SHOULD DAMN WELL BE AT THESE MEETINGS!!!!!!!!!

Randii writes for a living so I can tell you he will always be better at explaining things. Thanks Randii

This guy wrote the order, remember him? Press release (http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/news/2005/press-release_enf_mvr_fo03-05-07.pdf)
New Eldorado National Forest Wheeled Motorized Vehicle Travel Regulations Placerville, CA….. Beginning Thursday, August 25, 2005, visitors to the Eldorado National Forest can expect change in where they can use their wheeled motorized vehicles. Forest Supervisor John Berry is implementing a Federal District Court Order that requires visitors to travel only on the 2,200 miles of Eldorado National Forest system roads and trails. These routes are displayed on a map available at forest offices free-of-charge.


HERE (http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/projects/route/archive-docs/index.shtml) is the archive of documents. Notice it starts on July 21, 2003. That was 4 years ago.

They used OHV money to do this and plan on using OHV money to implement it. Does THAT not make you mad as hell? Does me, especially when the money I spend at the pump goes to lock me off my favorite parts of the forest.:mad3:

AND I'll say it again. I personally believe there are personal agendas being carried out within this plan. Villalvazo HAS to trust that that is not so, he also has to trust the team to bring him a document to sign. With no knowledge of the WHAT IS ON THE GROUND he HAS to.

Maybe we should write letters to the OHV commission to stop funding ENF with OHV funds... unless the funds are ear marked for trail repairs and upgrades:mad3::mad3:

RAMIRO VILLALVAZO SELECTED FOR TOP LEADERSHIP POST ON ELDORADO NATIONAL FOREST
VALLEJO, Calif., May 8, 2006--Ramiro Villalvazo, currently the Chief Landscape Architect in USDA Forest Service's (FS) Washington DC national headquarters, will be the new Supervisor of the Eldorado National Forest (NF), agency officials announced today.

"Ramiro's leadership in maintaining scenic resources and high-quality recreation settings, combined with experience stretching from Puerto Rico and Florida to California, gives him a broad mix of planning, economic development and natural resource management skills," said Pacific Southwest Regional Forester Bernie Weingardt. "Since his career began here in California, he has also completed work details as the Southern Region's Acting Director of Recreation and Acting Deputy Forest Supervisor on the Plumas National Forest in the Sierra Nevada mountain range. I am very happy to have him back with us."

Villalvazo, 47, was born in Tijuana, Mexico, and emigrated at a very young age to San Diego, where he grew up. He received a Bachelor of Science degree in Landscape Architecture from California State Polytechnic University in Pomona in 1982. He began his FS career as a co-op student on the Sequoia NF in 1980, moving to the Cleveland NF, also in California, in 1981. He went to the Caribbean NF in Puerto Rico in 1991 as the forest's Landscape Architect.

In 1995, he became Developed Recreation Manager/Landscape Architect on the National Forests in Florida, before returning to California as the Angeles NF's Landscape Architect in 1997. He transferred to his current Washington DC post in 2001. In addition to the work details outlined above since then, he has also worked in Honduras, Jamaica, Panama, Nicaragua and Mexico to help develop sustainable tourism and provide other assistance.

"I am looking forward to reconnecting with the people and landscapes of California, and to the beautiful and extensive resources of the Sierra Nevada. With the help of what I understand is a great staff on the Eldorado, I am prepared to share in the responsibility of managing some of the most treasured lands in the nation," Villalvazo said. "I am also looking forward to working with local communities and partners, as their involvement is vital for us to our job well. I'm very thankful for the opportunity, and am excited about returning to my home state."

Villalvazo has been married to Ana for 21 years, and they have two children, Joshua, 20, and Nicole, 17. An active member of the Society of Landscape Architects, he enjoys the outdoors, exercising, playing racquetball and traveling with his family. He replaces John Berry, who retired early this year. Villalvazo will report to his new post in late July.


http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/9193/villavazomt0.png (http://imageshack.us)

I can certainly understand that it is a tough choice between having to give up your job or miss some time with being with your "terminally ill" father. The lady in the beginning of the meeting said "I am proud to work for someone with their priorities straight" and I was thinking she should have said "it WAS great working for someone who has their priorities straight, but he had to leave and now XYZ has to take over BECAUSE WE HAVE A DEADLINE THAT WE WILL NOT CHANGE and we are here working for you".

Dude, if you can't do your job then let someone else. I think it is BS that he did not show (with five different conveniently planned opportunities) and is still ready to make decisions, I don't care what team he sent in his place. I know that this was not a "comment period" instead it was supposed to be an educational experience for us, I assure you that Jason and the people in the front of that mob are going to remember their/our emotions a hell of a lot longer than Villalvazo will no matter what his teams tells him.

Insert all my foul language here. :mad3:

Did anyone get a hold of Ramiro's boss? If so or not...maybe it's time his office was questioned:confused:. Why wasn't someone there in place of Ramiro?...not just Jason, Lester, Amy or the lady who spoke 1st.

What ever the reason for his absence, as far as I am concerned and since he is the sole decision maker, his absence nullified the public input portion of the process. The entire process should be halted and delayed until the public input process can be repeated in it's entirety and with him preset.
I did not see any video or even audio recording equipment so there is no way the staff that was present could effectively or accurately convey the public input that was expressed at the meeting last night.

What ever the reason for his absence, as far as I am concerned and since he is the sole decision maker, his absence nullified the public input portion of the process. The entire process should be halted and delayed until the public input process can be repeated in it's entirety and with him preset.
I did not see any video or even audio recording equipment so there is no way the staff that was present could effectively or accurately convey the public input that was expressed at the meeting last night.

100% agreed...

I believe there was a guy taping last night...he was at the top of the wheelchair ramp:confused: Maybe he could give up a copy.

100% agreed...

I believe there was a guy taping last night...he was at the top of the wheelchair ramp:confused: Maybe he could give up a copy.That was BigMike from Marlin, he recorded almost the whole thing. Expect it to be hosted soon.

I was at the Aug. 2 meeting in Concord/Plesant Hill last night and the forest manager Ramiro Villalvazo was NOT there. One of his 4 regional managers that got hired 2 months ago said his father was deathly Ill. :bawling: I'll give some sympothy, but when it come to the issue of our trails for 1000's of people he needs to be let go and replaces w/someone who can do the job. :mad3:

As far as I understand it Ramiro Villalvazo will decide on which alternative will be selected. He's the final say. Since he's both new and not attending, yet still is making the final decision he has to be relying on someone's input...or something more likely is happening. That being...the decision has already been made and he's directed staff to get through the process with as little termoil as possible. I'm confident that meetings are window dressing...a vehicle to allow OHV users to vent steam and hope they are getting heard all the while they push forward with the already decided plan. This view makes it hard for me to submit alternatives, beat the drum for a protest, even keep paying attention...but I am continuing. I hope more will too.

Want to catch the Forest Supervisor's eye?

Show up at this rally and march to his office:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=602510

Since he missed the meeting, and the overwhelming response of OHV-ers by huge majority, we can help him by appearing outside his window! I'm sure he'll appreciate the assistance!

Randii

I hope this helps you understand a bit what is going on here with the Eldo stuff (public input, yea, right). Take this with a grain of salt or two -- but realize that I speak from 32 years of gov'mt work and 25 years of land use and access. And 7 years as your FOTR Trail Boss.

Randii is right about this -- GET PISSED. But also get specific and write letters and comments.

Cruzila and Randii and others are right about this: these meetings are ONLY to provide you with helpful information on HOW TO RESPOND to the DEIS. These are not public input sessions and no decision-makers need to be there (in reatlity). And yes, the Forest Supervisor has family issues with his Dad and I respect that. But Sluice Sally is right about SOMEONE to rep him should be at EVERY meeting. But realize -- it's not about speaking to the decision maker at this meetings. It is NOT INPUT. It is Q & A about HOW to get involved.

BlueRibbon has already whipped out a kick butt letter about this to the USDA Forest Service. Maybe Lance or Randyii has alrady posted it, but I"m on the road and not back in full swing yet (in CO).

Bottom line: go thru the plan or use bullet points from Randii or someone else you trust and WRITE your comments and get them in on time. Talk about YOUR love of the sport, the trails and which trails you want left open. Call them (USFS) on their BS.

Hope this helps.
Del

I have a question.....

How could he get hired as Forest Supervisor, when he is has been a "Landscape Architect":confused:...not even a ranger at any time.

High five gurlfren!:D

High five gurlfren!:D

:laughing::laughing:..So I'm not the only one who finds this weird?

I have a question.....

How could he get hired as Forest Supervisor, when he is has been a "Landscape Architect":confused:...not even a ranger at any time.

Good Question!! Sounds like there is some corruption in the system here and we are paying the price. :mad3::mad3::mad3:

Has anyone gone to the newspapers such as the Sac. Bee or the news? Fordyce is closed yes :mad3: Rubicon is in the EDNF and its still open :confused:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sluice Sally
I have a question.....

How could he get hired as Forest Supervisor, when he is has been a "Landscape Architect"...not even a ranger at any time.

I'd bet that a lot of people that knew that this was all coming (qualified, locally experienced people) deliberately avoided this job. Ask yourself WHO would want it?

If somebody gave me that job and then told me I had to personally sign the document that kicked allmost everyone out of well over 60% of Eldorado National Forest as a first order of buisness I'd tell them to kiss my ass and quit right on the spot.

so where did this guy come from?

. . . so where did this guy come from?

Tijuana

Ramiro Villavlazo is a puppet, why do you think some one that has never spent any time camping, hiking, or exploring in th enf would be put in charge of managing it???


cliff

Not having the Forest Supervisor at these meetings sucks hard, but not having the former Route Dez coordinator, Tony Scardina, sucks worse. Tony's Inter-Disciplinary Team is still there, but they are dodging questions, IMHO... we need the team captain back on the field.

Randii

after reading this I sent an email to Tony Scardina. he has emailed me back and ask me to call him. I will let ya know what he has to say

after reading this I sent an email to Tony Scardina. he has emailed me back and ask me to call him. I will let ya know what he has to say

Nice! Keep us posted...

Rubicon is in the EDNF and its still open :confused:

That's becuase it's a county road and the FS has no jurisdiction over it, go 25' feet from the center of the road and then it's another story.

They DO control the spurs, thats why they are all closed...