All Pro 4" Rear Springs with All Pro Rear Shackles.

Front mounts are in. U-Bolts are on. Now we're messing around with shackle mount location.

Has anyone taken accurate measurement of how far to move the rear shackle mount?

All Pro suggests moving the mount 3" to the rear. This looks like an invitation for shackle inversion.

The mounts are at 3/4" back now. Held in place with c-clamps so we can articulate the suspension and see what is happening. Looks like they could go back another 1/2"-3/4".

Where did you put yours?

On my 5.5's I put the front 6" ahead and the rear 2" and wish I would have left it in the stock location. My schakle angle is okay, but nothing spectacular at maybe a ~20* angle or so. I plan to move if they don't settle much more or change much when I remove the bottom leaf here soon.

Originally posted by Bones
or change much when I remove the bottom leaf here soon.

You'll notice a big difference if you remove the bottom leaf, I did. Lowered atleast an inch.

Originally posted by convertiyota


You'll notice a big difference if you remove the bottom leaf, I did. Lowered atleast an inch.
Good, that's why the fenders are getting the trim as well. I might remove a leaf from all corners and then do the sheet metal work...Thanks

What year truck is it on?

89 and later trucks and 90 and later runners don't need the rear shackle moved at all. Earlier trucks (like my 89 runner) generally do need the rear moved 3".

I have the same springs and shackles and I set the fronts 5" forward and the rears 3" back. This gave me a shackle angle of about 5-10* (empty with new springs). I was told that they should settle to about 15* which seems right to me.

Spring: All Pro 4"
Application: 1985 X-Cab
Desired Shackle Angle: 30-40 Degree

Angle defined:
Let's use a clock for reference. 3:00 would be 0 degree. 2:55 would be 30 degree 2:53 would be 40 degree.

ChartDog--

We put the front mount 6" forward. I hope that number was correct.

Oops: Had 90 but meant 0

a friend put his 3 inches back....his shackle angle sucked.....he should have only done like 2"

Here's mine the day they were installed with weight on them. VERTICAL damn near!

And as of Memoral weekend. It has improved, but I plan to remove a leaf and wheel it a few more times before I start relocating junk agian. (Sorry, best pic I could find at rest)

They will settle back when the springs break in, more on the 4Runners, less on the Pickups. I'm going to move mine to add angle, would rather have the better ride especially with the reduced weight of the Flatbed kit, but they say the truck will have more wheelhop with added shackle angle.

Steve,

At first I followed AP's written directions and put mine 6" forward. In fairness to them they had told me verbally to use the 5" measurement. I had marked the stock axle position and wanted it the same when I got done. I had just tacked the hangers in place and tried it. I found that the axle was 1" forward of stock so I moved the hangers to the 5" mark. This put my axle back where it started.

You confused me with your shackle angle math. For me, when the shackle is straight up and down, I call it 0*. As the bottom of the shackle sweeps back I start counting with 90* being about where the shackle lies flat against the frame. Under this plan 45* would be half way.

I admit that I do not understand the pros and cons of different shackle angles except that both 0 and 90 are bad. AP told me to put 300 pounds in the back of the truck to simulate partly broken in springs and then set them so that you have about 15*. I assume that these springs will settle quite a bit so I will probably end up with a steeper angle (20+).

One thing I have learned about this whole process is that trial and error usually wins out over exact science.

ChartDog--

I'm not sure what other peoples springs measure but mine were as follows.

Stock: 20.5" Pin to Eye
All Pro 4" : 26"-27" Pin to Eye (26" Top/ 27" Bottom)

26.5" - 20.5" = 6"

Note: Above numbers and math would be for locating the front hanger. This thread is about locating the rear hanger.

ToyXsexuals don't wheel, it will be fine at the mall:flipoff2: :D :flipoff2:

Ben If I were doing it again, I would just put some good tackwelds on the front & rear of the rear shackle hanger. When I done mine I ended up moveing mine 3 times before I was happy. After with 3 diferent truks and All Pro springs I found out that they were all just a little different. Some even ride better than others that were the same type of spring. So you better not Weld them hangers to good.

Jeff

Lame--

Your the guy that travels in the passenger seat of someone else's truck. You get to the obsticle, get out of the truck and proceed to talk trash about other peoples line choice thru and obstacle etc.

"If I had my truck here I would blah blah blah"

Go build a truck (if you actually have one) and bring it out you panzy!

:flipoff2:

all pro 4 inch rears, bottom leafs out, front mounts 4.5" in front of stock. rear shackle hanger an inch back.........

Originally posted by BensonMN
Lame--

Your the guy that travels in the passenger seat of someone else's truck. You get to the obsticle, get out of the truck and proceed to talk trash about other peoples line choice thru and obstacle etc.

"If I had my truck here I would blah blah blah"

Go build a truck (if you actually have one) and bring it out you panzy!

:flipoff2:

I am the Supreme Trail Bitch.:flipoff2:

I have seen the mall crawling you homos do on the dirt roads in Danbury, talk about Xtreme:eek: :flipoff2:

The rig is being built, and it will be out in plenty of time to show more of you sally's how to wheel.

Ask Shreg about Toyota rock..I didn't even have to comment on his line:laughing:

Steve,

The location of the front hanger affects the location of the rear. I was trying to answer your question and give you a complete picture.

In any event, SHARON has the right answer, tack it and see, then adjust as necessary.

Hope it turns out OK and you don't have to grind too much.

Pete

Originally posted by BensonMN
Go build a truck ... You're doing exactly what he wants. Just ignore him, he'll get bored and disappear.
Has anyone taken accurate measurement of how far to move the rear shackle mount? On the early 4 runners, you *cant* move it more than about 3 inches or so without reinforcing the frame - it turns into C channel.

Originally posted by LAME
ToyXsexuals don't wheel, it will be fine at the mall:flipoff2: :D :flipoff2:

:confused: Wait......... whats that I smell???

Burnt latex and cum ...............in the Toyota section! :eek:


LAME must be posting there again and let a fart slip!



:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by BensonMN
[
"If I had my truck here I would blah blah blah"




Damn Steve if I had my truck up there.....

I'd still be showing you how to get it awwnnn :flipoff2:

phear the picnic table biatch!!

I measured my angle tonight and it was 15* on the drivers side and 20* on the passenger side. Maybe 1000 miles and 6~ times out wheelin them. Bottom leaf will go for sure now :D

BONES........cut of your ass end and take out 2 leaves!!!!!!! cut that fiberglass top in half, put a sliding rear window on it and weather proof the lower portion(in the bed) from the flatbed:rasta: :rasta:

Originally posted by Booger Weldz
BONES........cut of your ass end and take out 2 leaves!!!!!!! cut that fiberglass top in half, put a sliding rear window on it and weather proof the lower portion(in the bed) from the flatbed:rasta: :rasta:
I was just talking/contemplating that tonight with a friend. Seems to me like it would be a lot of work and put me out for too long. What did your bed end up being in lentgh? I was comming up with around 29-32" bed. The sealing it off from the elements is my biggest issue, and making it look okay as well :rasta: Email me some closeups of your setup so I can get an idea before I get to far into patching up my current mess :D

Thanks

bones or paul what are the measurements frum eye to center pin F/R thanx

ill measure tonight, im at work ;)

Paul--

While you have the tape out...

Can you measure from the front eye to the eye of the shackle at the frame?

Can you also measure the length of your shackle?

Originally posted by toy 4 rox
bones or paul what are the measurements frum eye to center pin F/R thanx
If I can find a tape at lunch I can measure the springs. It'll be a pretty crude measuerment though. Why do you need this? BensonMN posted what the 4"ers are? This is not rocket science either, if you want them, buy them and install them. If you make a mistake, change it like I plan to.

I can get my shackle length as well BensonMN. Booger runs a dual shackle setup, so his is probably going to be differant. :p

Bogger, you got PM ;)

Or do this (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6450) ???

Mark Kulachkosky runs something similar with a plate welded to the frame that has threaded holes where the shackle mount can bolt onto the frame. He has it set up so that the mount can be moved. That way you can fine tune the shackle angle to taste.

Note: Bones link has a shackle mount adapted to a plate that uses u-bolts to attach to the frame. This would allow fine tuning of the shackle angle.

Mark Kulachkosky: BHCC 2001: Kong
http://www.dakotacruisers.com/trail_reports/bhcc/b01-10.jpg

Originally posted by Bones

If I can find a tape at lunch I can measure the springs. It'll be a pretty crude measuerment though. Why do you need this? BensonMN posted what the 4"ers are? This is not rocket science either, if you want them, buy them and install them. If you make a mistake, change it like I plan to.

I can get my shackle length as well BensonMN. Booger runs a dual shackle setup, so his is probably going to be differant. :p

Bogger, you got PM ;) he said that thay were 26&27" that is only 53" i thowt thay were like 57" or so and if thay were the same as the ranger springs i have i could use the information to place my hangers the rangers are 57" and 26"&31"so if the allpros are only 53" never mind it wont help me

VINCE, the allpros are 56" long, 27 inches from the front eye to the centering bolt........

Originally posted by Booger Weldz
VINCE, the allpros are 56" long, 27 inches from the front eye to the centering bolt........ that would then leave 29" to the rear,good math ha:D thanx

Toy4Rox--

The measurements given by myself in another thread clearly state that they were taken on "top side" and "bottom side" of the spring. That is why the measurements are different.

Many people go out to their truck and measure from the front eye to the pin on TOP of the spring because the spring is already installed in the truck. Those same people will measure a new spring BEFORE they install it and will measure from eye to pin on the BOTTOM of the spring where the pad meets the spring. Those two measurements ARE NOT the same, so I gave BOTH.

Do you think any of the All Pro boys really passed the third grade? Do they sit back and laugh when they say to move the fronts 6 and the rear 3" when in all reality moving the front five inches is more than good? That way your axle location remains descent and the shackle is not arched more than the springs? Lets face it, Alpo's quality in the beginning was great, he got the taste of money and is now penny pinching, causing quality to suffer, case in point, their current front bumpers, front shackles, and the steering box bracket being welded half assed. Where did the powder coating go? Why the change from alcan to a massed produced cracker jack spring? With the prices that they're asking for parts can they not include correct measurements and a little more metal? To tell the truth, I loved allpro, having a hell of a time swallowing allpo:mad3:

thanks for sharing that with us sonny...

AOR4X4.COM BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well if anyone still cares I had the same problem with my allpro 4" springs. I moved the front mount forward 6" and the axle location seems fine. The shackle was verticle though after moving it 3" back. Instead I went 1.5" back and even after 6+ months and a trip to moab the shackle angle is at about 20-25 degrees off verticle. Hope that helps.

Kevo

Originally posted by sonny4x4
Do you think any of the All Pro boys really passed the third grade? Do they sit back and laugh when they say to move the fronts 6 and the rear 3" when in all reality moving the front five inches is more than good? That way your axle location remains descent and the shackle is not arched more than the springs? Lets face it, Alpo's quality in the beginning was great, he got the taste of money and is now penny pinching, causing quality to suffer, case in point, their current front bumpers, front shackles, and the steering box bracket being welded half assed. Where did the powder coating go? Why the change from alcan to a massed produced cracker jack spring? With the prices that they're asking for parts can they not include correct measurements and a little more metal? To tell the truth, I loved allpro, having a hell of a time swallowing allpo:mad3:

The numbers given for All Pro Spring hanger position is the exact numbers Jon uses when building his trucks. That's why it's written in the instructions that way. Some may prefer more shackle angle and that's fine. Personally I agree on this point as I also prefer a little more shackle angle than Jon, but we have had this conversation and he feels strongly that we should continue to use these measurements.

What happened to painting and powdercoating? Most people would rather get the item cheaper and quicker. It costs money and time to powdercoat products. Most of the products that used to be powder coated have come way down in price. Remember when Hy-Steer cost $749? I am not saying it's all in the paint, but it was one of several cost saving factors.

Why change from Alcan? Most people that call us don't want to wait even a week to get their springs. Telling them it's going to take 8 + weeks to get them caused too many problems. The second reason was quality. When we ordered 5 sets of Alcan spring all at the same time all the same way we expected to get 5 sets of similar springs. What we got were 10 different springs. We people bought them from us the return rate was about 50%. Alcan did not pay for warranty shipping, so we ended up paying for shipping to return them. The Alcan spring I got for the front of my 4Runner came with the spring pins in different locations, one 3/4" forward of the other. Alcan is a small operation with springs made by hand. They simply can't duplicate the same spring over and over with any consistency. So we sought out a larger spring distributor that could reproduce the quality and quantity our customers are looking for. I would call Alcan a Cracker Jack operation compared to the modern computer controlled benders that our springs are made on now.

Originally posted by Chris Geiger


The numbers given for All Pro Spring hanger position is the exact numbers Jon uses when building his trucks. That's why it's written in the instructions that way. Some may prefer more shackle angle and that's fine. Personally I agree on this point as I also prefer a little more shackle angle than Jon, but we have had this conversation and he feels strongly that we should continue to use these measurements.

What happened to painting and powdercoating? Most people would rather get the item cheaper and quicker. It costs money and time to powdercoat products. Most of the products that used to be powder coated have come way down in price. Remember when Hy-Steer cost $749? I am not saying it's all in the paint, but it was one of several cost saving factors.

Why change from Alcan? Most people that call us don't want to wait even a week to get their springs. Telling them it's going to take 8 + weeks to get them caused too many problems. The second reason was quality. When we ordered 5 sets of Alcan spring all at the same time all the same way we expected to get 5 sets of similar springs. What we got were 10 different springs. We people bought them from us the return rate was about 50%. Alcan did not pay for warranty shipping, so we ended up paying for shipping to return them. The Alcan spring I got for the front of my 4Runner came with the spring pins in different locations, one 3/4" forward of the other. Alcan is a small operation with springs made by hand. They simply can't duplicate the same spring over and over with any consistency. So we sought out a larger spring distributor that could reproduce the quality and quantity our customers are looking for. I would call Alcan a Cracker Jack operation compared to the modern computer controlled benders that our springs are made on now.


If Alcans are "Cracker Jack" then All-Pros are "K-Mart":flipoff2:

Oh Jesus Christ, not this again....gettin' real old by now isn't it? :rolleyes:

Thanks GhettoFab, this is the sort of feedback I was looking for. My front mounts are at 6" and this appears to be correct though my box has yet to be reinstalled. We tacked the rear shackles in place at 2" rearward and I don't like the shackle angle. Like Chris, I prefer more angle so the mounts will be moved another 1/2-3/4 forward for a total move of 1.25-1.5 back from stock.

If people want to rip on someones product start your own thread.

Originally posted by Ghetto Fab.
Well if anyone still cares I had the same problem with my allpro 4" springs. I moved the front mount forward 6" and the axle location seems fine. The shackle was verticle though after moving it 3" back. Instead I went 1.5" back and even after 6+ months and a trip to moab the shackle angle is at about 20-25 degrees off verticle. Hope that helps.

Kevo

It's been a while but if I remember right I went 3" back as well and wasn't happy. I brought it back forward 1.5" I think and it's perfect.

Convertiyota--

Did you pull just one spring or two?

We pulled the bottom most spring and the torque leaf. If we do not install the box back onto the truck, we may pull the second leaf too.

Note: No need for torque leaf due to three point torque bar.

Originally posted by sonny4x4
Do you think any of the All Pro boys really passed the third grade?

I think a better question is did YOU pass the 3rd grade... can you read directions? I installed the springs in my truck per their directions... and the directions state to tack the mounts into place and check everything. Guess what, it wasnt where I wanted it, so I moved them accordingly till it was where I wanted it. Whats the big deal about that? If you only tacked them, its no problem right? it sounds like youre way pissed... probably because you were in a rush, fully welded everything, didnt check PER THE INSTRUCTIONS, and screwed up... and now need someone to blame for your problem.


http://www.dough-boy.com/Tony_s_FJ-40/DonkeyS.JPG

Originally posted by BensonMN
Convertiyota--

Did you pull just one spring or two?

We pulled the bottom most spring and the torque leaf. If we do not install the box back onto the truck, we may pull the second leaf too.

Note: No need for torque leaf due to three point torque bar.

I only pulled one.

sure rockcrawler passed with flying colors and learned to follow directions very well. the main beef with the destructions alpo :bender: states on their web page is that they claim that their springs are the exact same specs on every spring yet mr. gieger says that john runs the 6 and 3 location (its perfect) and when called upon terry at allpro says that 4 and 3 is perfect. Now to my knowledge the toyota frame didn't change 2" or more during production of the first gen trucks and runners. After tacking six and three and then being forced to relocate over four inches of hanger distance my springs set just about perfectly. Blame lies soley on me and my welder for correct placement and is accepted by me however, if allpro does not offer an 11 inch longer spring, its it recommended that the instructions on the web page be corrected. to that, I offer an open invitation for you to take a break form curb crawling and come to my neck of the woods.
:D

Sometimes penny pinching is necessary however customer service, satisfaction, and extra TLC will go a long long ways.

Originally posted by sonny4x4
sure rockcrawler passed with flying colors and learned to follow directions very well. the main beef with the destructions alpo :bender: states on their web page is that they claim that their springs are the exact same specs on every spring yet mr. gieger says that john runs the 6 and 3 location (its perfect) and when called upon terry at allpro says that 4 and 3 is perfect. Now to my knowledge the toyota frame didn't change 2" or more during production of the first gen trucks and runners. After tacking six and three and then being forced to relocate over four inches of hanger distance my springs set just about perfectly. Blame lies soley on me and my welder for correct placement and is accepted by me however, if allpro does not offer an 11 inch longer spring, its it recommended that the instructions on the web page be corrected. to that, I offer an open invitation for you to take a break form curb crawling and come to my neck of the woods.
:D


Hey Newbie are you the same bozo that called us today and told us we had no idea how to mount springs? Dude you need to relax and take a chill pill. I am sorry you don't agree with our instructions, but who the hell are you to tell us how to mount springs? I think we have just a little experience building trucks and know a thing or two about what we are doing. After selling nearly a thousand springs don't ya think we may have had a little feed back? By far the majority of people are very happy with our rear springs. If your not happy with yours please send them back to me for a full refund.

Originally posted by Chris Geiger



Hey Newbie are you the same bozo that called us today and told us we had no idea how to mount springs? Dude you need to relax and take a chill pill. I am sorry you don't agree with our instructions, but who the hell are you to tell us how to mount springs? I think we have just a little experience building trucks and know a thing or two about what we are doing. After selling nearly a thousand springs don't ya think we may have had a little feed back? By far the majority of people are very happy with our rear springs. If your not happy with yours please send them back to me for a full refund. YA AND SHUT UP

to chris look i'm not saying i'm not happy with the springs i don't want to send them back. i'm just extremely frustrated with the fact that NO ONE will give me a straight answer on why so very many people are unable to even come close using the 6-3 measurement including your fellow salesmen of thousands of springs? to wit Terry. please explain the varience without telling me all trucks are a little differtent! Also newbie, not quite 85 4runner with your 6" kit while you were still using alcan, 87 samurai with coils and now an 84 4runner with your 6" kit new springs thank you for an honest and straight forward answer..

Okay Sonny you have 2 sets of old AP springs......so out of the 1000 that they have sold, you of all people want to bitch.... HA .....you are a :rainbow: Nobody reads directions anyways.....oh wait, if you are a newbie then yeah, but everyone knows that you line the shit up the way that YOU like it no matter what AP's directions say. Some people will have a ton of shit on the back of there rig (camping trip) or a 4runner where the weigh would effect the shackle angle. Sounds like you need to call the whambulance. Do me a favor cry me a river, build a bridge, and get the Fawk over it! Don't waste Chris, Terry, and the rest of the gang's time with your petty bullshit!:mad3: :flipoff2: :laughing:

Your springs came with directions? :confused: :confused: I just installed mine the way I saw fit, I hope they settle out more, but I don't think they will after I chop off the ass end like Booger did, so I will remove a leaf or two and readjust if necessary, no biggie really. So Sony, just shut the f*^k up! The springs work fine for 99% of the people, if you hate them, you've had your chance to return them. Untill then :flipoff2:

All I gotta say is, can't wait until I get my Allpro rears! Their product is proven and I love it.

I have bought stuff from allpro in the past with no problems or complaints with the merchandise.
I recently bought two sets of rear springs from them again with no problems or complaints with the merchandise.
The only complaint i've ever had is with their customer service, but i don't care too much. It'd be great if everybody was nice and friendly but that's not reality.

So quityerbitchin and get in the garage and build it the way you want it.