Save Tellico - Official Thread

[k9crazy]

THREAD UPDATED - Please go to the end of the thread for the Tellico Closure Order!

So, many of you have been showing your support on the various boards with posting articles you see and calling for supporters to comment on them. We have also seen a lot of questions asking how you can help. I have a list of things here that you can do to help. The only thing we ask is that you maintain professionalism whenever speaking or writing in a public forum. This board included. Remember that anyone can read what is written on the internet and in a paper and we need to maintain the moral highroad in order to keep the respect and trust of the USFS that SFWDA has worked so hard to gain over the years. This is an emotional issue for most of us, I know it is for me. But try to remember that if we are perceived as hot headed or aggressive, it will not serve us well in the end.

Things you can do to help save Tellico:

1) Support Rob and the folks on the ground working so hard with the USFS on a day to day basis. Please volunteer your time and resources to go to help on work days. I know it's hard to get away for a weekend or during the week for a few days, but your sacrifice now will help ensure access for the future.

2) Monitor the media. There is no way that we can see every article that comes out in the media. If you see something, please post it up here so we can read it and react if necessary.

3) Pay attention to the updates that we'll post up. There will come a time when we will need you to write letters to the FS expressing your concern for their actions and suggesting alternatives for them to consider. Again, professionalism is a must.

4) Join SFWDA. If you haven't already, please consider joining SFWDA. Donate money to help fund the fight to protect Tellico. http://www.sfwda.org/

5) Join BlueRibbon Coalition and United Four Wheel Drive Association. BRC and United have jumped in and are helping us at SFWDA through the legalities. Their resources are not bottomless and they need our support to continue fighting for true public access to public lands. http://www.sharetrails.org/ and http://www.ufwda.org/index.htm

6) TreadLightly! We need, more than ever, to practice sound environmental wheeling. But don't stop at just holding yourself to these ethics, hold others to them too. We need to be self policing. If you see folks out on the trails that are behaving irresponsibly, educate them as to what could happen if they continue their behavior. Remember that one bad apple spoils the whole bunch.

As I said above, there will come a time when we need more help. I will try to keep this thread up to date as things happen. I can’t tell you how much your support and help means to this effort, and I (and I think I speak for SFWDA as well) really appreciate your support as we move forward.

[thumping]

Heather, thank you for updating us and look forward to hearing from you soon.

I only get to run Tellico 2 or 3 times a year but it is one of my favorite places to ride. What I don't understand about the trout guys, is they seem to forget that many of us are also fishermen...and fisherwomen...and we care about our streams as much or more than they do. I've worked on some of the trash clean ups and I have never seen any of them walking the creek banks picking up trash that was over a 100 yards away from any trail...so doubtfully it came from a trail rider. Anyway, they need to understand that they may be next on the chopping block. As soon as they eliminate thousands of people that would stand and fight with them, groups like PETA will have a much easier task with eliminating them.

I’ll do what ever is necessary to help…just let me know.

[s10er8]

Thanks again for everything you guys do.

[k9crazy]

Forest Service under fire
Conservation groups threaten to sue about erosion problems caused by off-road vehicles.
By Richard Simms Correspondent

Public lands and water resources are often classified as “multiple use,” offering a wide variety of recreational pursuits. “Multiple use” often means multiple problems, however.
On the lake, fishermen despise jet skis. On trout rivers, fly-fishermen scorn rafters, tubers and even “bait fishermen.” And in the Cherokee National Forest, it appears that lots of folks loathe off-road vehicles.
On behalf of several conservation groups, the Southern Environmental Law Center has filed a formal “Notice of Intent To Commence Civil Action” against the U.S. Forest Service. That is a required legal precursor to a potential lawsuit against the Forest Service.
The SELC is representing the North Carolina and Tennessee councils of Trout Unlimited, Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility and the Southern Appalachian Biodiversity Project. The groups say the USFS is violating the federal Clean Water Act, state laws and its own regulations in failing to prevent mud from severely eroded off-road vehicle trails from polluting streams in the Tellico River watershed.
Terry Seyden, a spokesman for the USFS, said the Forest Service agrees there are problems.
“We’ve been dealing with water-quality issues through a stakeholder process for many years,” Seyden said. “I understand people are frustrated that not enough improvement has been made fast enough. We haven’t gone as fast as we’d like, either.”
Seyden said at least part of the problem has been a lack of funding. The complaining organizations aren’t willing to let the USFS off the hook, however.
“The Forest Service has come up short in taking decisive action to fix this problem,” said DJ Gerken, staff attorney with the SELC. “We are letting them know that the law is unambiguous. Water quality and trout come first.”
Steve Fry from Chattanooga is the former Tennessee state chairman for Trout Unlimited.
“The Forest Service is responsible for what goes on there,” Fry said. “They have the task of managing the forest. We don’t have any problem with that form of recreation (ORVs) — we just think the runoff needs to be managed better.”
Most of the designated ORV trails in question are in North Carolina, but the runoff impacts the Tellico River, which is a favorite area for avid trout anglers in southeastern Tennessee.
“The streams running out of the Tellico area have 100 times more mud in them than similar streams unaffected by ORV use,” said Barry Sulkin, Tennessee PEER director and a former chief of enforcement for the Tennessee Division of Water Pollution Control.
The groups are calling on the Forest Service to close permanently the most environmentally damaging ORV trails and close the entire system in the wettest months.
ORV enthusiasts are ready to protect their interests, though. In a tersely worded news release, Heather Spivey of the Southern Four Wheel Drive Association said, “It appears at first blush that the erosion issues recently publicized by the involved parties are inaccurate. They failed to account for the significant investment from the (SFWDA) and their membership to improve erosion control measures and to remedy siltation issues within the Upper Tellico ORV area.”
Spivey said that in 2005 and 2006, SFWDA volunteers contributed labor, equipment and materials valued at more than $100,000 to help control and curtail erosion.
“We do feel the Southern Four Wheel Drive Association has worked very, very hard with what limited resources they have,” Fry said. “We’re not saying they’re bad guys. But we still feel the Forest Service needs to put more effort into it.”
Spivey said in a telephone interview that the SFWDA has about 850 members and most are family memberships, “so the number of participants is much higher than 850.”
As for the conservation groups threatening a lawsuit, she said, “We don’t intend to fight against each other. We’re both environmental proponents. That’s the message we want to get out to the public. We want to find common ground and arrive at an environmentally friendly solution.”
Both groups met independently with USFS representatives this past week in an apparent attempt to reach a compromise.
“Hopefully they’ll come to the conclusion,” Seyden said, “that a lawsuit is not the best way to achieve the objective.”
Said Fry: “They (USFS) have given us a proposal to basically try and settle this issue without going to court. We’re going to have to get together and discuss what they’ve proposed. No decisions have been made.”
Spivey said she hopes it does not come to a courtroom battle, but if it does, “I can tell you that we would get involved. It would be in the best interest of our folks who take part in this legal activity.”
Gerken said he expects a decision on whether to take the issue to court by the end of this month.
E-mail Richard Simms at sports@timesfreepress.com
ON THE WEB
Public Employees For Environmental Responsibility: www.peer.org Tennessee Trout Unlimited: www.tctu.org Southern Environmental Law Center: www.southernenvironment.org Southern Four Wheel Drive Association: www.sfwda.org Southern Appalachian Biodiversity Project: www.sabp.netU.S. Forest Service in North Carolina: www.cs.unca.edu/nfsnc

This story was published Sunday, August 12, 2007

[k9crazy]

ACTIVISTS SEEK TO TEST CLEAN WATER ACT IN OFF-ROAD VEHICLE DISPUTE
______________________________________________
Date: August 20, 2007 -

Environmentalists are planning to sue the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Forest Service, claiming that the use of off-road vehicles (ORVs) in a national forest is damaging water quality, in a case that sources say could act as an important precedent for future claims in the increasingly common dispute between environmentalists and recreational users of federal lands.

A coalition of environmental groups represented by the Southern Environmental Law Center (SELC) filed a 60-day notice of intent to sue June 28, and will decide by the end of this month whether to accept an offer from the Forest Service, one source involved in the case says. The source was unwilling to discuss the terms of the offer during consideration. Relevant documents are available on InsideEPA.com. See page 2 for details.

SELC represents several chapters of Trout Unlimited (TU), Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility and the Southern Appalachian Biodiversity Project, who are alleging the roughly 2,000-plus ORVs each month in the Nantahala National Forest in North Carolina are polluting the Tellico River in violation of the Clean Water Act (CWA). TU claims that these violations are causing problems with the local trout populations.

Disputes over the use of ORVs on federal lands are not a new issue, but this is likely the first time the CWA has been invoked as a method to change trail use, one pro-ORV environmental consultant following the issue says.

“I do see the Clean Water Act as something that will come into play more and more,” the source says, noting that the growing popularity of outdoor recreational activities and increasing development diminishing open spaces will likely increase disputes over land uses. But, the source says, environmentalists’ claims in this case are “reaching” to invoke CWA violations.

“The success or failure of this lawsuit will be precedent setting as to what the Forest Service will do in similar situations” in the future, the source says, as well as whether groups will use the CWA as a legal driver to remedy disputes over ORV activities.

At issue is the water quality of the Tellico River, which runs through North Carolina and Tennessee. The complainants argue that the activities of the ORV users are harming the water with excess sedimentation and turbidity resulting from the large vehicles going through and near streams, as well as digging trenches with their wheels into forest lands, which reroutes waters. “Brook trout are highly sensitive to water quality and are especially vulnerable to excess sedimentation and turbidity,” the notice of intent to sue states.

The notice says sand and dirt, which are primary components of sediment, are specifically listed as pollutants under the CWA, but the Forest Service has not obtained a CWA discharge permit for the Tellico ORV area.

SELC argues the ORV activities violate sections 301, 401, 402 and 404 of the CWA. Section 301 requires effluent limitations for point sources, section 401 requires state certification that an activity complies with CWA discharge requirements, section 402 covers permits for point source discharges, and section 404 covers permitting of dredge-and-fill activities.

Surface runoff collected and channeled by human activity is covered by sections 401 and 402, while “the deposition of dirt and sediment by as many as 2,400 ORVs/month is a discharge and fill regulated” by section 404, SELC says.

Stakeholders are meeting to discuss the future of the Tellico trail, sources say, on Aug. 24, and SELC will decide then whether to file suit by the Aug. 28 deadline.

[s10er8]

SELC must sue everyone they disagree with, I search it and lawsuits are nothing new to them. SELC means "Southern Environmental Law Center" and evidently ALL THEY DO is sit around and try to find things to sue people or entities about. It's big business to them, I'm sure.

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=selc+lawsuit&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8

I found where they have filed lawsuits for USFS before, GA DOT, Army Corps of Engineers, the US Navy, VDOT.. theres plenty more.

[k9crazy]

Yesterday was the annual stakeholder meeting. This is something that has been done every year for a while, but this time it had a new slant with the threat of lawsuit. Here is the agenda.

Upper Tellico OHV Trails – Nantahala NF
9th Annual Stakeholders Meeting Agenda
Tellico River Corridor – Cherokee NF

August 24, 2007
Murphy, NC
09:00 A.M. - 12:00 P.M.

09:00 Welcome, Introductions, Review Agenda – Tina Tilley, USFS
Keith Lannom, USFS

09:15-11:00
Water Quality Protection - Forest Supervisor

Status of SELC/TU/PEER NOI - Forest Supervisor

Statement from SFWDA Jay Bird, President SFWDA

Statement from SELC Squeak Smith, T.U.

Questions/Answers Panel

11:00-12:00

Wild Trout Monitoring - Jason Farmer, USFS
Doug Besler NCWRC

Watershed Monitoring - Brady Dodd, USFS
Tyler Baker, TVA

Operations & Maintenance Update - Bill Champion, USFS


Partnerships – working for the future

Round Robin - All

Close Out - Tina Tilley, USFS

[big mudder]

Any news come from the meeting???

[k9crazy]

Yes, and I am working on a write up now. I promise you'll see it soon!

[SC74]

Any news - did they close 2 & 7?

[Ken Carter / BRUISER]

I road Trail 2 this past weekend and it was open..

[k9crazy]

No trails are closed as of now. The FS has said that they could do an emergency closure, but they are not going to. That is a small victory for us right now.

As for the meeting, it went well, we were very well represented and eveyrone was very professional and polite.

Only 3-4 TU people showed up at the meeting, which is interesting that they didn't have the support of their members there.

As far as content of the meeting, there are a number of items that the FS are starting right away including trail assessments, more maintenance, and some review of Trails within 100 feet of streams. Some of these items involve looking at closure of some trails (2, 7, 9) and/or seasonal closures. There are also longer term items that do include trail relocation, closures, and other management items. But these are just a list of things that the FS is putting out there (in my opinion) to dissuade TU from filing a lawsuit. What they have to realize is that if they close our trails, TU might not sue, but we will.

So, now that that's out on the table, the meeting was a meeting. Pretty much the same as what's happened year after year at the stakeholders meeting. But the important part this time is what is read between the lines, and here's my take.

If you ask me, there is going to be a lawsuit by TU. The FS seems to believe that their immediate actions and long term promise of actions will derail the suit. I disagree. I think TU will sue regardless. They want trails closed and if the FS does not cave, they'll sue. That's my opinion.

Now, that being said. Here's the important part for all of us. We will not cave either. The leadership of Southern Four Wheel Drive has engaged UFWDA and BlueRibbon and is prepared to do whatever it takes, in whatever arena, to keep Tellico Open.

In a nutshell, that will entail at least 4 things:

1) Fundraising - Yep, we're gonna be asking for money...and we're gonna need lots of it. We'll be paying for a portion of our legal representation as well as for trail maintenance now and in the future.

2) Awareness - Folks, it's time to get everyone on board and aware of what is going on. We will be putting together flyers for distribution, a website, and other ways to get the word out there. We'll need everyone's participation and support as we go forward.

3) Volunteerism - Without what has been done to date by volunteers at Tellico, we would be NOWHERE! This and only this has given us a dog in the fight. We need to keep it up and show the FS and TU that we will not let this go.

4) Participation in Letter Writing - We will be asking people that love Tellico and want to keep it open to write letters to their congressional representatives and senators asking for things. We will also need for people to comment on any actions that the FS puts out there for public comment. We will provide form letters for your use when it's time.

Right now we are in a wait and see time. If TU files, we will also. If the FS starts closing our trails, we will take action. But regardless...we are getting ready for something...one thing or another.

SFWDA is actively forming teams to address all aspects of this threat. We are putting together a "Tellico Rescue Team" that will raise money, work with our legal team, look at the science of the complaints in the area, continue the trail work at Tellico, and support the fight to keep the area open.

I know that this is progressing slowly, but it will for a while. We need to let the NOI expire at the end of the month and be ready to jump in head first either when TU files the suit or when the FS takes an action we don't agree with. And we will be ready.

I hope that answers questions for you. I know it's not all inclusive and doesn't have something that everyone can go out and do RIGHT NOW. But have patience. You will be called upon to help and when we do, we will really need each and every one of you.

PM me with questions if you want.

[thumping]

Heather, once again...thank you. Please let me (us) know when and what we can do and it will be done. I'm going to be posting a link to this page on a few other sites to help draw attention to this.

Thank you...

[Tommy70K5]

Yes, thanks for what you and all involved are doing.

[k9crazy]

Heather, once again...thank you. Please let me (us) know when and what we can do and it will be done. I'm going to be posting a link to this page on a few other sites to help draw attention to this.

Thank you...

Yes, thanks for what you and all involved are doing.

Thanks y'all. I appreciate it. Kind words and good people are what keeps me going!

[zainyD]

Thanks for all your hard work. I will be posting the url for this thread on some other sites as well to help inform some of our fellow wheelers of what's going on.

I've only wheeled at Tellico three times, but every time I've been there I've had a great time. Hope we can keep it open for a long time to come.

[Blue Ridge Runner]

Thanks Heather! I have sent my membership fee to SFWDA and BRC both. I will also make donations to the cause. I am a staff member at Zuwharrie.com's BBS (http://bbs.zuwharrie.com) and I personally invite you to join there. Getting the membership there involved has been a tough task. Please feel free to post requests for assistance there. I will support your posts 100%. I have this threads link added to my signature line also. Thanks for all you do to keep our trails open. It truly is appreciated. :smokin:

[gamble71]

Good information. I just wrote both Senators Corker and Alexander of TN to see where they stand on this subject. As a disabled vet it really bothers me to see people willing to walk all over my, and your, rights to enjoy public lands. I will join the groups and make monetary contributions once I am able to get back to work.

[SC74]

Great Update and Thank you for all of your hard work and efforts!

[redneckengineered]

Other than joining the groups, is there a specific fund we can contribute to for the save tellico cause? Something you all will be establishing to raise money for legal costs, trail maint, etc?

[k9crazy]

Other than joining the groups, is there a specific fund we can contribute to for the save tellico cause? Something you all will be establishing to raise money for legal costs, trail maint, etc?

YES!

But we don't have it up and live yet. Stay tuned and we'll have a fund up after our 3rd quarter meeting on the 8th when we form our teams for the effort!

[Alabamatoy]

http://www.thecherokeescout.com/articles/2007/08/30/news/doc46d488f48aa97138519745.txt

[GSW]

Other than joining the groups, is there a specific fund we can contribute to for the save tellico cause? Something you all will be establishing to raise money for legal costs, trail maint, etc?

Along those lines, maybe someone could come up with a t-shirt design with a slogan like "responsible off roaders for environmental responsibility" or something along those lines. And all monies beyond the cost of production could go to the Tellico defense fund. Just an idea, but I know we've got some creative people on this board.

Maybe some vendors from this site could offer up some product for a t-shirt design contest?

[McCracken]

I had an idea that I thought was good but never heard anything more about it after I sent it in to SFWDA. I thought they could design a sticker that said "Help Save Tellico ORV" or something along those lines and charge $5 a sticker. I think that it would really pull in a huge amount of money since I don't know too many rigs that are sans stickers. Hell, I'd buy 2 or 3 to put on the DD.

[Tommy70K5]

I had an idea that I thought was good but never heard anything more about it after I sent it in to SFWDA. I thought they could design a sticker that said "Help Save Tellico ORV" or something along those lines and charge $5 a sticker. I think that it would really pull in a huge amount of money since I don't know too many rigs that are sans stickers. Hell, I'd buy 2 or 3 to put on the DD.

Excellent idea!

[k9crazy]

http://www.thecherokeescout.com/articles/2007/08/30/news/doc46d488f48aa97138519745.txt

When I read that I just am more and more convinced that TU is going to sue come hell or high water. A really good article, balanced and fair. I'm impressed with the coverage of the meeting.

Along those lines, maybe someone could come up with a t-shirt design with a slogan like "responsible off roaders for environmental responsibility" or something along those lines. And all monies beyond the cost of production could go to the Tellico defense fund. Just an idea, but I know we've got some creative people on this board.

Maybe some vendors from this site could offer up some product for a t-shirt design contest?

Absolutely! SFWDA is forming their fundraising team at the 3rd quarter meeting and will be working on these kinds of idea. Keep them coming and I'll continue to pass them along to them. Also, if someone wants to take charge and do some fundraising on their own and just donate the money, my answer is hell yeah.

I had an idea that I thought was good but never heard anything more about it after I sent it in to SFWDA. I thought they could design a sticker that said "Help Save Tellico ORV" or something along those lines and charge $5 a sticker. I think that it would really pull in a huge amount of money since I don't know too many rigs that are sans stickers. Hell, I'd buy 2 or 3 to put on the DD.

Excellent idea!

I agree, excellent idea! And SFWDA is working on a few items...probably T-shirts, stickers, and other items that will have a snappy slogan on them. It's just taking some time to get things organized.

That being said, if anyone has some ideas on designs, please feel free to send them to me at hspivey at bellsouth dot net and I'll pass them along to SFWDA.

[McCracken]

Also, if someone wants to take charge and do some fundraising on their own and just donate the money, my answer is hell yeah.

I was worried someone might take the money and run. That's why I gave it to Southern to deal with. I still wouldn't mind but my design skillz are limited at best. I was thinking something simple like a red background with white lettering. Maybe a difficult diamond on one side and the words, "Save Tellico ORV" as big as it would fit. Simple and to the point and large enough to read.

[thumping]

I was worried someone might take the money and run. That's why I gave it to Southern to deal with. I still wouldn't mind but my design skillz are limited at best. I was thinking something simple like a red background with white lettering. Maybe a difficult diamond on one side and the words, "Save Tellico ORV" as big as it would fit. Simple and to the point and large enough to read.


I'll take 4.

If need be I can check with the guy that does my stickers and see what kind of a deal I can get on say 100 to 250 stickers...to start. All proceeds of coarse going to the SFWDA.

[Cj104]

i'll go in for stickers and for t-shirts. my only thoughts are to be sure we go with simple designs that still look good we don't just want people to buy the stickers/shirts for $, we also want them to actually use the stickers/shirts to show support and raise awareness. for stickers i would suggest a decal-style which uses individual white letters as opposed to a rectangular sticker of a solid color with letters on it (the traditional bumper sticker). it may cost an extra $ to make, just charge an extra $ to get it. the visible support and awareness will make up for the few people who want to save one dollar. my $.02

[McCracken]

I suggest posting up designs and seeing what people would want. I'll try and bust out some Photoshop nastiness later.

[donkeystompit]

I have a friend in Knoxville that owns a sticker business. If we can get some ideas, I will run them by him. I am pretty sure I can get them very cheap, maybe free. He needs favors from me here and there.

[McCracken]

It's a horrible MS Paint drawing but I think you get the idea.

[GSW]

It's a horrible MS Paint drawing but I think you get the idea.

Looks good to me. Only change I would suggest is a nice green background.

[tw89yj]

I was just up there this past weekend and want to compliment everyone on the efforts put forth on the trails. There has been alot of work done since I was last up there last weekend of June. The section above Slickrock has had alot of work. There were a couple of guys, from a LC club, running a small trackhoe up there on Sunday. Thanks to all who have been involved.

[lockedupLJ]

Ditto on the trail work, our group was the first ones to hit the loose dirt at the top of slickrock Sun.:D needless to say there's no more ledge, just smooth, very soft, no way around it, fully "gettin' it" climb.

Also, our group hauled out 4 large hefty bags of trash scattered over 4 different trails over a 3 day trip, pick up after yourselves people, if not their won't be a Tellico soon!!!!!!!

[jcb450r]

Someone send me some info on who to write and I will get as many Georgians as I can to send letters. Tellico is the closest place my buds and I have to go. All I know is if they shut it down, or a majority of it there will be alot of rigs for sale down here. I also have friends that work at 4wheelparts in one of there locations here I could at least mention it to them I am sure they would at least let us post flyers in their windows, or maybe even an ad in there magazine that would speak to the entire US.

[Jeepndel]

Hi all, I just want you to know that myself and the BlueRibbon Coalition are watching and helping with Tellico -- some of it behind the scenes. But we are on your team and want to help out. Stacie and I have yet to wheel your rocks, but we want to.

You have an important resource to our sport and we want to be there to help you keep it for all of us.

Thanks for what you are doing.
Del

[BigGreenMonster]

thats for your help... looks like we will need ya'lls suport too!

[Jeepndel]

I know my BlueRibbon boss, Greg Mumm, and his partner, Brian Hawthorne, have been dealing with some Tellico issues for a while. So just let them know or me know how else we can help. It's time to make sure Tellico lives long and happy. :)

Del

[McCracken]

Del, very cool to see you here and thank you for all your help. It is appreciated. Let us know what we can do.

[k9crazy]

Del, thanks for posting up. Greg and I talk pretty regularly about Tellico and he's been (and continues to be) a great help. Thanks for your support!

And to everyone who is posting up about the trail work, cleaning up the area, and supporting SFWDA in this fight, :beer: to you and THANK YOU.

SFWDA does have a blurb up on their "TELLICO" page about how to donate. Soon they will have a PayPal Account set up for donations, but for now they are accepting checks. Here is the link (look a little ways down the page for the yellow box on the right): http://www.sfwda.org/trails/tellico/index.html

I'll let y'all know when the link to PayPal is live.

Thanks again!

[k9crazy]

It's a horrible MS Paint drawing but I think you get the idea.


I love it! And I have sent it on the SFWDA along with a request to get the PayPal link up soon for donations. See my post above for ways to donate now.

[GSW]

New Asheville Citizen-Times article. Much more balanced this time around. I've already emailed the author to thank him for that.
http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200770905103

[BigGreenMonster]

well at least this guy is somewhat fair and factual.

QUESTION... is cloesing 2, 7 and 9 really on the table? if they do get closed will new trails equally as challinging be opened up? those 3 are 90% of the reason you go to tellico in the first place.

[thumping]

I love it! And I have sent it on the SFWDA along with a request to get the PayPal link up soon for donations. See my post above for ways to donate now.

Thanks Heather. Please let us know when the PayPal link is up and I'll post it on my web site with a description of what it is for. The more people know about it the more vocal they may become and hopefully donate what they can. Again, thank you for keeping us informed.

[rob92xj]

New Asheville Citizen-Times article. Much more balanced this time around. I've already emailed the author to thank him for that.
http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200770905103

That has been the best no parisan article I have read yet, I like the quote of off roader being the nicest people and leaving the cabins clean that should go to show we do care about the areas we travel to and from.

[tierodking]

I just got back from Tellico last nite after being there for 3 days. I didn't have my jeep with me this time, still under construction, so I rode shotgun.
We did every trail except for the outer loop of 8. Yes the FS has done A LOT of work up there and I was saddened with the "plowing down" of some obstacles and the literal "paving" of some trails. I can understand why & can accept the compromise if it keeps the trails open.
HOWEVER, I was DISGUSTED :mad3::mad3::mad3:at all the trash that I saw on the trails. If we want to keep the trails open, we HAVE TO pick up after ourselves and others. Riding shotgun & being a spotter most of the time, I was out of the jeep a lot & picked up a lot of trash & threw it into the backs of the numerous Jeeps. There is still alot of trash out there & all it would take is 1 day with a group of volunteers pickicg up trash to clean it up.

I think that if we did just a little good, it will go a long way. Having a trash pick up day would be one of the ways to stimulate postitive thoughts about our hobbies & the want to keep the trails open. Who's to say that the greenies & the other groups aren't sabotaging our trails to make us look bad when it could be them.

Is there anybody in Murphy, Tellico Plains or somewhere local that could organize a trash day?

-TRK

[rob92xj]

HOWEVER, I was DISGUSTED :mad3::mad3::mad3:at all the trash that I saw on the trails. If we want to keep the trails open, we HAVE TO pick up after ourselves and others. Riding shotgun & being a spotter most of the time, I was out of the jeep a lot & picked up a lot of trash & threw it into the backs of the numerous Jeeps. There is still alot of trash out there & all it would take is 1 day with a group of volunteers pickicg up trash to clean it up.

I think that if we did just a little good, it will go a long way. Having a trash pick up day would be one of the ways to stimulate postitive thoughts about our hobbies & the want to keep the trails open. Who's to say that the greenies & the other groups aren't sabotaging our trails to make us look bad when it could be them.

Is there anybody in Murphy, Tellico Plains or somewhere local that could organize a trash day?

-TRK
Seriously trash pick up day we should all follow pack out what was packed in if not more, I'm always picking up trash on the trails at URE and any place else I wheel.
Rob

[k9crazy]

Hey folks! Just got back from wheeling at Beasley Knob to find the PayPal link up for the Tellico Rescue Fund! Please consider donating!

www.sfwda.org

[redneckengineered]

Everyone should put this link in their signature on every board they visit.

http://www.sfwda.org/trails/tellico/donate.html

[tellicorob]

There is a cleanup weekend every year. Usually before the 15 th of march.If you go to SFWDA's web site it's listed as the Tellico River Cleanup. A lot of the people that are littering are also causing other problems. Many of these people are the same ones that don't think that they need to stay on the trail, and think that it's fun to tear up the hard work that we have put into the trails. A lot of us have been putting ALOT of our own time, money and sweat into the area this year. I've had many days that (after seeing what these inconsiderste, lazy, stupid, asshats are doing) I've come in from doing trail work and thought that mabe they would be better off closing the area if this is how these asshats are going to treat it. BUT after recovering from being beat half to death by the trac hoe or dump truck, I realize that it is only a small percentage of the people that are causing all of the problem. The attitude of " I'm going into the back country so I can do whatever I want" was OK 30 years ago. These days , with the loss of most of our areas,we need to act right while we are on the trail. There are way too many people and not enough areas not to. If you can't do this you need to go home and find another hobby, because you are going to ruin it for the rest of us.

[s10er8]

Well said.

[tierodking]

I'll :beer: to that

[k9crazy]

Very well said Rob! And thank you so much for everything you do.

For those that are tracking the development of the efforts to help keep Tellico Open, the SFWDA has formed a "Rescue Tellico" committee that will do fund raising, PR, Legal, trail maintenence, and will monitor the science of what is going on out there.

The official name of this effort is "Rescue Tellico" and we have a "Rescue Tellico Fund." The PayPal link is open http://www.sfwda.org/trails/tellico/donate.html) and the "Rescue Tellico Fund" is kicking!

Also, from ideas presented on this board and other places, the "Rescue Tellico" logo is in draft form and will be unveiled soon!

[Jeepndel]

Way cool about the Rescue Tellico logo, links and efforts. I like it. :)
From what we're finding on most all our trails, WATER is the thing to learn how to manage and when to manage it. Water is evil to some ologists, especially when it gets mixed up with mud and oil and makes it way to a watershed of some sort.

Managing water (erosion control) is key to successful trail maintenance programs in many areas.
Del

[Trailworks]

Heather, I'd be willing to kick down 10 bucks or so for a "Rescue Tellico" sticker & be willing to bet a lot of others will too (just a thought). For those of us in the Southeast, we've never really had to deal with an environmentalist problem of this proportion, we've been very fortunate, to the point where very few have ever worried about land use issues. I can't count the times I've been up on my " soapbox " & had people tell me "that stuff only happens out west, they"ll never mess with us" well ya know what , it's happening now buddy ! Heaven forbid they close Tellico, but if they somehow manage to ,do you really think they'll stop there ? The answer is NO!!! Don't think for one minute the outcome of this isn't going to affect where you ride, these environmentalist are using the Clean Water Act as their catalyst, which BTW applies to both public & private entities. What that means is there's nothing to stop them from trying to shut down the small privately owned OHV parks that we in the southeast have been blessed with. If they're not scared to go toe to toe with the Federal Government do you really think a small private park would stand a chance ?How does this relate to Tellico you ask ? Think of the trickle down affect, if they succeed in closing Tellico ,will they be satisfied ? NO, they're just gonna be that much more confident. Now that we've got the big fella outta the way, let's go after the little guys will be the mindset for them! Just something for those of you wondering how this will affect you to think about. Organize, be active , do something, it's up to all of us to help out with this. Heather, Rob, & a few others are working their tails off, but don't sit back & think they can do it by themselves.

[McCracken]

I must have missed the Rescue Tellico logo. Where is it?

[Trailworks]

I must have missed the Rescue Tellico logo. Where is it?


Just talked W/ Michelle & she said they should have the artwork proof ready by Monday, I'll keep ya updated when I find something out.

[Bigcountry]

will these logos be ready before DIXIE RUN.

Something to think about. AT DIXIE RUN during the Rock Challange (most people together) and the Saturday night raffle/band have someone come on and tell everyone what is going on, where to get Tee shirts and how to help. I know a lot of people who heard about this but have never taken it serious and telling them at Dixie Run will make it serious.
Is there anything that SFWDA could to to make DIXIE RUN this year about Saving Tellico like on there shirts and have some more information for people to take for us all. Just a thought and my worthless 2 cents.

[thumping]

I'm in for stickers, shirts and PayPal donations or anything else I can do to help. Again, thanks to all that have taking on this fight.

[Diehard]

Has anyone been to Tellico recently? My friend at Blue Ridge 4X4 says he had a customer come in and said some trails were closed. Are there repairs being done? Nothing mentioned on the SFWD site. I'm going next week so I'd like to know whats what. Thanks.

[k9crazy]

No trails are officially closed. Some trails have been closed for the day so that trail maintenance can be done. So far, we are holding ground. But that could change ANY DAY.

[Diehard]

Do you know of any specific things that have been done in the last month or so? I've heard the creek has a new bridge and the large ledge that was at the creek is gone. Any info will be good. Thanks.

[jeepinfool]

I agree we need to do something or have some sort of fundraising for Dixie. This will be the best chance to talk to a lot of people at once. Have some stickers ready to sell, those are quick and easy, talk about it at the raffle. Maybe sell the stickers when people register. Either way this is a prime opportunity to create some serious awareness in a short period of time. And, it's at Tellico. Just makes sense to me.

[tellicorob]

Do you know of any specific things that have been done in the last month or so? I've heard the creek has a new bridge and the large ledge that was at the creek is gone. Any info will be good. Thanks.


Look in the Trail Work Thread I've been trying to keep it up to date. ROB

[Blue Ridge Runner]

The latest dribble from The Citizen Times:

http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200770914112

There is a public forum for comment located at the bottom of the article. Also notice that the author Michael Smith is a member of Trout Unlimited.

[k9crazy]

I decided that this needs it's own thread (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=614803) but am cross posting it in the "Save Tellico" thread (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=604044) and in the "News Article in Citizen times" thread (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=614705).

Please cross post all over the place.

OK folks, the Forest Service is on the move and has taken the first step to close three trails: Lower 2, 7 and 9. They have also taken the first step to closing all of Tellico over the winter months. Now is when we are going to need your help.

Here is the letter that was sent out:

Dear Interested Public,

I am seeking comments on two proposals to establish new Forest Supervisor’s Orders on the Upper Tellico Off-Highway Vehicle (OHV) Area in Cherokee County, North Carolina. This OHV area, located 15 miles north of Murphy on the North Carolina/Tennessee state line, includes approximately 38 miles of existing roads and trails that are managed for motorized recreation use. The following actions are being proposed:

1. A Forest Supervisor’s Order prohibiting motorized vehicles on Lower Trail # 2, Trail # 7, and Trail # 9, duration of order not to exceed one year or until a reasonable plan is in place to prevent adverse impacts to the aquatic resource.
2. A Forest Supervisor’s Order prohibiting winter-time motorized vehicle use on the Upper Tellico OHV Trail System from January 1 to March 31 each year. This would include all trails in the system except Trail # 1 and the upper section of Trail # 2 which would remain open as system roads used by vehicle types normally found on public roads.

The following persons would be exempted from these orders:

• Persons with a permit from the Forest Service specifically authorizing the otherwise prohibited act or omission.
• Any Federal, State, or local officer, or member of an organized rescue or firefighting force in the performance of an official duty.
• Owners or lessees of land in the Closure Area are exempt from the prohibitions listed above to the extent necessary to gain access to their land.
• Residents in the Closure Area are exempt from the prohibitions to the extent necessary to gain access to their residences.

PURPOSE AND NEED FOR THE PROPOSED ACTIONS

These actions are needed to correct and/or repair ongoing impacts to the aquatic resource caused by sediment entering area waters from the Tellico trail system.

Action # 1, prohibitions on Lower Trail # 2, Trail # 7, and Trail #9, is needed to provide immediate short-term resource protection measures. The greatest impact to area waters is coming from the movement of sediment off these three trails, as indicated by observation and on-site measurements of turbidity and suspended sediment concentrations.

Action # 2, winter-time closure of the OHV Area, is needed to provide resource protection. Forest Service personnel have observed that most of the damage to the trail tread occurs during the winter freeze/thaw period from January to late March, at which time soils are subject to increased rutting and displacement.

These actions would implement direction in the Nantahala and Pisgah National Forests Land and Resource Management Plan to emphasize protection of perennial and intermittent streams in compliance with North Carolina Forest Practice Guidelines Related to Water Quality.

The actions would be implemented pursuant to 36 CFR 261.50 (b) which states, “The Chief, each Regional Forester, each Experiment Station Director, the Administrator of the Lake Tahoe Basin Management Unit and each Forest Supervisor may issue orders which close or restrict the use of any National Forest System road or trail within the area over which he has jurisdiction.”

Before a final decision is made I welcome your comments. Please make your comments as specific as possible along with supporting reasons why you believe your comments should be considered. Please include your name and address in any correspondence.

Your comments may be sent to Tusquitee District Ranger, 123 Woodland Drive, Murphy, NC 28906. Comments may also be sent via email to comments-southern-north-carolina-nantahala-tusquitee@fs.fed.us.

We would appreciate receiving your comments by October 17, 2007.

Thank you for your time and interest in our management activities on the Tusquitee Ranger District.

Sincerely,

/s/ Tina R. Tilley, Acting District Ranger
TINA R. TILLEY, Acting District Ranger


So there it is. Now, let me explain the process they are following and what may or may not happen.

A "Notice of Supervisor's Order" is the first step in their process to enact new “Supervisor’s Orders” for an this action. The Letter is used to notify potentially interested parties of a proposed action and to solicit comments on the proposed action and its Purpose and Need. The action here is defined by them as:

“A Forest Supervisor’s Order prohibiting motorized vehicles on Lower Trail # 2, Trail # 7, and Trail # 9, duration of order not to exceed one year or until a reasonable plan is in place to prevent adverse impacts to the aquatic resource.

A Forest Supervisor’s Order prohibiting winter-time motorized vehicle use on the Upper Tellico OHV Trail System from January 1 to March 31 each year. This would include all trails in the system except Trail # 1 and the upper section of Trail # 2 which would remain open as system roads used by vehicle types normally found on public roads.”

A proposed action is worthless if its purpose and need is not good. In this case, they are saying that these "closures" are "needed to correct and/or repair ongoing impacts to the aquatic resource caused by sediment entering area waters from the Tellico trail system." They go on to say:

“Action # 1, prohibitions on Lower Trail # 2, Trail # 7, and Trail #9, is needed to provide immediate short-term resource protection measures. The greatest impact to area waters is coming from the movement of sediment off these three trails, as indicated by observation and on-site measurements of turbidity and suspended sediment concentrations.

Action # 2, winter-time closure of the OHV Area, is needed to provide resource protection. Forest Service personnel have observed that most of the damage to the trail tread occurs during the winter freeze/thaw period from January to late March, at which time soils are subject to increased rutting and displacement."

They can basically just say “close it” or “don’t close it.”

OK, so they have proposed their action and purpose and need and are asking for comments. We need to provide those comments to them. This is where you come in.

THE TEMPLATE LETTER IS DONE: CLICK HERE ----> http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7291766&postcount=75

Drop me an email if you have any questions and I will try to help. If you don’t get a response from me, please don’t be offended. There are only so many hours in a day. I’ll do my best to help as much as I can. My email is Heather.Spivey at sfwda dot org

Let’s get it going folks. Don’t let them take our Tellico away from us!

[DanKunz]

I wrote an email...thanks for letting us know sis.

[brector]

Thanks, just got that in an email

[k9crazy]

If ya'll don't mind...post up some of your letters so others can see what you wrote. It will help some that might not be comfortable writing letters get some ideas.

Thanks!

[neliconcept]

send me a link to donate, im more then willing to put my share down.

stickers whatever.

I hate that this is even happening, Colorado has many trails here that hit stream crossings and not a peep from some organizations about it.

[Jeepndel]

Tellico, Rubicon, Moab? All getting the same treatment -- close it in winter, stay on designated system roads, water is getting muddy, blah blah.

First they have not provided you with any measurements or sampling data. Ask for it; specify you must have it to make managment decisions. Offer to fix any problems. That's what we do with Friends of the Rubicon. Point out a problem (erosion), and we fix it. Period. WE provide the labor, help them get grant money, follow their blueprints if needed, and do not let anyone get away with closures that are arbitrary and capricious like this is sounding to me.

Also, please feel free to use or tweak this letter writing formula that I offer to anyone fighting for their trail:
http://www.delalbright.com/Articles/letters.htm

Del

[AtlantaK-5er]

Wow, this sucks! We were just there this weekend for the third annual trip and I am deply sadened by the mere thought they may close the trails. As for current conditions, they added a brdge to dross the river at 5, plowed most of the obstacles on 5 (but it looks like the reason was to get that mini excavator up to upper 9 area). At fains ford, they plowed it down added rocks along the top to keep people from climbing the wall after the crossing. Both lower and upper 9 were far eaiser than they were in the past. It looks like they filled in a bunch of the stuff at the top of nine. Slick rock was the same though.

If you want to look at the brighter side, most of these changes have helped to alleviate some of the traffic along 5 and the bottlenecking at feins ford when people are trying the wall, etc. But, it sucks you cant do those any more.

I hope slickrock and trail 9 dont become another "lions back".

There was hardly anyone there this weekend especially Sunday. But, the trails were clean. We only picked up a little trash left by others.

Here is my favorite pic...
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i16/acablik/DSC037471024x768.jpg

[k9crazy]

send me a link to donate, im more then willing to put my share down.

See my sig and click...AND THANKS!

[k9crazy]

FROM SFWDA, UFWDA, and BlueRibbon Coalition:

As you know, in response to the recent request of the Forest Service to comment on the two proposals to establish new Forest Supervisor’s Orders on the Upper Tellico Off-Highway Vehicle (OHV) area, Southern, United, and BRC have enlisted the services of Carla Boucher and Paul Turcke to submit a formal response letter. In addition to that, we think it is important that you comment on the proposals as well. The request for comment is located here http://www.sfwda.org/trails/tellico/tellico20070917.html for you to read. We are providing you with a template letter with the following suggested outline in preparing your letters and remind you to put it in your own words. We urge you to mail your letters in before the identified date of October 17, 2007.

Your letter should be mailed to:

US Forest Service
Nantahala National Forest
Tina Tilley, Tusquitee District Ranger
123 Woodland Drive
Murphy, NC 28906


Include the date
Include the file reference information (File Code: 2350-5/1950)
Include reference (Supervisor’s Orders on the Upper Tellico Off-Highway Vehicle (OHV) Area
Tell them who you are and why you are writing
Give your general and specific comments including:


The importance of the Tellico area to recreation and surrounding communities and the effects the closures will have
Tell them why you think the specific trail closures (Action #1) on Lower Trail 2, Trail 7, and Trail 9 is not justified
Tell them why you think the proposed winter closure (Action #2) is not justified
If you know the science, then talk the science
Talk about how no data has been provided and ask for the scientific data on which the closures are being based
Talk about all the mitigation/maintenance work you/your group/Southern has done and continues to do
Talk about what Tellico means to you, why you and your family value it, how you practice Treadlightly!, how you participate in trail clean up, etc.

In conclusion, express your opposition courteously but strongly one last time
Include a statement of your support of the joint letter sent by Southern, United, and BRC.

Request you be added to further communications

Give your contact information

Signature


Please also remember to be courteous and substantive. In other words, “get it off my chest…” type comments are of little or no value. Finally, you need to keep a copy of your letter for future reference.

If you would like to use a TEMPLATE LETTER, here is one that you may cut and paste to use. PLEASE BE SURE TO ADD YOUR THOUGHTS IN THE LAST PARAGRAPH.

U.S. Forest Service
Nantahala National Forest
Tusquitee District Ranger
123 Woodland Drive
Murphy, NC 28906

INSERT DATE

RE: File Code : 2350-5/1950
Supervisor’s Orders on the Upper Tellico Off-Highway Vehicle (OHV) Area

Dear District Ranger,

My name is YOUR NAME HERE and I am writing at to express my concerns about the above-referenced Supervisor’s Orders addressing vehicle use of the Upper Tellico OHV Area.

My understanding of the September 17, 2007 letter is that the Forest Service intends on enacting two new Supervisor’s Orders that will close the Upper Tellico OHV Area during the winter months, and will close specific trails (Lower#2, 7 and 9).

Trails Lower#2, #7, and #9 should not be closed. From your letter and from the research that has been conducted, there is no scientific evidence that the Tellico trail system or any one trail in particular, have any impact on streams in the area. The streams that were sampled originate above the OHV area, and samples were only taken down stream of the OHV area. In order to demonstrate that sediment load is coming from a specific area, it is necessary to sample the stream/river both upstream and downstream of the area.

With respect to seasonal closures of the entire area, your agency did not provide and I have not seen any proof that demonstrates the time of year is directly tied to increase potential for impacts. There is no data provided by your agency to suggest that sedimentation from January 1 to March 31 occurs at a higher rate than sedimentation during other months of the year, which makes a winter-time closure unfounded.

[Write a paragraph here about what Tellico means to you. Talk about what you do to preserve the area, talk about how your practice Tread Lightly and how you participate in trail clean up, etc.]

The OHV community is willing to support reasonable management prescriptions, but the Proposed Orders are not rationally connected to the proposed riding restrictions. A well-conceived and thoughtful planning process should be conducted rather than hastily-prepared Orders in response to closure demands of anti-access special interests. My intent with this letter is to show my strong opposition to these and any trail closures and to request my contact information be added to any further communications regarding the Tellico ORV area.

YOUR NAME
YOUR ADDRESS
YOUR E-MAIL
YOUR PHONE NUMBER

Very truly yours,

SIGN YOUR NAME
TYPE YOUR NAME

[blues balls]

Heather and all others interested...

I came up with a hair brained idea to sell "Save Tellico" stickers and send all proceeds to SFWDA Save Tellico Fund. Next thing I know, I've got a url saved to set up a sight to order stickers from and now "SaveTellico.org" is underconstruction.

The reason I'm posting here is to gain support for the cause. Not only are we going to sell stickers for Donations, but offer advertising space on the site. If you or your Company, or the company you work for, or your friend, or neighbors friend wants to advertise their selves/site, they will be able to buy a small piece of realestate on the page. Also , I need to get this out "to the People". so with any chance that you may have on other boards, or by word of mouth, please let people know about SaveTellico.org. Also, I will be making a small web Banner Link for anyone interested in hosting a link on their website. Not sure who to Contact on Pirate, but any help or support that the Admin could lend in directing people to SaveTellico.org would be appreciated.

Lastly, This is not some sort of money making scheme for me. Many on this board have known me for years, some from other boards (mbalbritton), some thru email, some in person. I am donating my time and resources to make these stickers. All I ask is for my material costs to be covered. My labor and dedication to Tellico is free. ALL Proceeds will go to SFWDA's Save Tellico Fund. I'm talking this could easily go into the $1000's of Dollars in donation if we can all get the word out.

thanks
Brent Albritton
Crazy8Graphics
SaveTellico.org coming soon

P.S. Edit: SaveTellico.org was purchased adn hosted by Joel Davis, owner of WebWheeling.com so Props to him for helping me with this project.

[k9crazy]

Brent, I just sent you an email with the name of the person that is doing the PR for the effort who could help you.

Only one thing I see that might be a snag, SFWDA has decided to call the effort "Rescue Tellico" not "Save Tellico." The other thing is that if your site will represent an effort that SFWDA is currently involved in, then they will want control of content. We are getting into legal stuff here and we don't want to make any mis-steps. Send me an email and we can exchange numbers and talk real time.

heather.spivey at sfwda dot org


And thanks, that is all way over and above the call! And very cool of you!

[kibblerange]

I just got Roxy to sticky both this thread and the Official Links thread.

Anyone speak up or PM Roxy if you do not want any of these stickied.

-Thanks, Mason

[k9crazy]

The deadline for comment is tomorrow!

SEND AN EMAIL TODAY BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!

[k9crazy]

I have had a couple of folks ask me what happened with the deadline being the 17th. Many folks are asking if the trails are closed and what to do now. I thought I would go ahead and walk through some next steps and what could potentially happen now.

The 17th was ONLY a deadline for public comment on the proposed Supervisor's Orders. Nothing actually "happens" on that day. The FS will now compile all the comments and read them. The acting district ranger (who is NOT Tina Tilley anymore) said that they will form a team to evaluate the comments.

Once that is done, they will do something. Not sure what, to be honest. The ball is in their court. They could do nothing...they could close trails...they could just do some analysis. We just don't know.

That being said, we will be ready for their decision whatever that is. If it's trail closure, we will be ready to act. If it's not and they want our cooperation, we'll be there for them and willing to help.

So folks, we are in a waiting game. But we can't let up on the pressure to make sure that everyone knows that we will continue to push to make sure that Tellico remains open. Now more than ever we need to be smart about how we conduct ourselves out there. Be careful, tread lightly, clean up the area and take care of it as if it was your own. Because right now it is your own, and someone it trying to take it from you!

[k9crazy]

The waiting game is about done. We (SFWDA) are working on a meeting time with USFS, TU, SELC, SFWDA and our UFWDA Lawyer. So far the meeting is targeted to happen the week of Thanksgiving. We don't know what the meeting will accomplish, but we hope to have a clearer understanding of where the USFS' head is with regard to the proposed Supervisor's Orders they put out for comment last month.

The one thing I do know is that we had a magnificent show of support from the offroad community in the form of letters to the USFS. You are all to be commended and if I could I'd buy each of you a beer for your effort. But given the number of comments they received, I can't afford it!

I'll update the thread here when I know more.

[ATLRoach]

Any updates?

[k9crazy]

Yep...update! From www.SFWDA.org

November 19, 2007

We attended a meeting in Asheville, North Carolina with the Forest Service. Originally, this meeting was billed as the meeting they would tell us what their upcoming decisions would be regarding the Forest Supervisor orders that were published on September 17. In summary, these proposed orders are:

Prohibiting motorized vehicles on Lower Trail # 2, Trail # 7, and Trail # 9
Prohibiting winter-time motorized vehicle use on the Upper Tellico OHV Trail System from January 1 to March 31 each year
In short, according to the Forest Service, no decision has been made. They may announce a decision by December 1, but they may be delayed beyond that.

These actions would be in the form of a Forest Supervisor order that is "temporarily" in effect for one year. None of this is acceptable to us - hard experience with the Forest Service in other southern forests has shown us that most (if not all) "temporary" closures are forever. Whatever repairs or maintenance that they intend to do during the closure period will usually not get done due to one reason or another. We remain in close consultation with our lawyer on these issues.

For SFWDA, the attendees were Jay Bird (President), Gunnar Byrd, Rob Theurer, and Roger Theurer. For Blue Ribbon Coalition, the attendee was Greg Mumm. There were several Trout Unlimited (TU) attendees including Michael "Squeak" Smith and George Lane and DJ Gerkin for Southern Environmental Law Center. Deborah Walker was the facilitator for the Forest Service. Marisue Hilliard is the Forest Supervisor in North Carolina and she will be making the final decisions.

The Forest Service did not announce any decisions regarding trails lower 2, 7, and 9 or the winter closure. Furthermore, the participants did not agree on a statement of principles that the Forest Service had developed. We felt that the pre-written "statement" assumed problems exist that have never been proven (or even satisfactorily shown) to exist. TU would also not agree to any statement.

Note on Trail 8: Three bridges on trail 8 are closed due to sagging. Two bridges can be replaced with culverts and one bridge needs to be rebuilt. A section of trail 8 is closed from the bottom of the intersection with trail 9 to approximate where the old skidder (near turn to #10) is resting next to the trail. This means you cannot complete the loop on trail 8. We volunteered to do the work, but the Forest Service engineer seemed in no hurry to get the work done - maybe by next summer. Argh.

The rest of the meeting was similar to the previous Stakeholder meetings we have attended, where the Forest Service updated us on actions taken on their list of Tellico options:

http://www.sfwda.org/trails/tellico/tellicooptions3.jpg

Summary of status as of
November 19, 2007
Short Term:

completed
not yet initiated
18 miles have been looked at
design is 80% completed
pending
not initiated - perhaps one year

Longer Term:

completed
no status
not started yet
no status
under way
no status
on-going
no new actions

[Blue Ridge Runner]

Looks like the NFS may take the easy way out and cave base on this statement



These actions would be in the form of a Forest Supervisor order that is "temporarily" in effect for one year. None of this is acceptable to us - hard experience with the Forest Service in other southern forests has shown us that most (if not all) "temporary" closures are forever. Whatever repairs or maintenance that they intend to do during the closure period will usually not get done due to one reason or another. We remain in close consultation with our lawyer on these issues.

Time to write our Senators and House members and ask them to support us. Burr and Dole are Republicans and usually they value the "off-road vote".

[markrobinson]

I met Rep. David Davis (TN, 1st District, Republican) on a recent trip to Washington, and being that commerce and recreation in his district will be affected by the outcome of this issue, I don't think that it would hurt to let him know your feelings if he's your Rep.

[kibblerange]

Does anyone have any information on the Save Tellico T-Shirts they were handing out at this years Dixie Run???

I was unable to attend but would like to order a few ASAP.
I e-mailed Jay Bird but w/no response, so any info would be greatly appreciated


-mason

[k9crazy]

Does anyone have any information on the Save Tellico T-Shirts they were handing out at this years Dixie Run???

I was unable to attend but would like to order a few ASAP.
I e-mailed Jay Bird but w/no response, so any info would be greatly appreciated


-mason

Mason, I've emailed the PR person and I'll get any info to you as soon as I can.

[James_Fendley]

Heather,

Has anyone contacted Rep. Heath Shuler about Tellico? It is located in his district ( the 11th ).

James

[blues balls]

For those interested, please Visit:

http://savetellico.org

[McCracken]

Heather,

Has anyone contacted Rep. Heath Shuler about Tellico? It is located in his district ( the 11th ).

James

Well, I've been told that he has been contacted. I met a guy through another friend. I don't know the validity of this but he claims he is Heath Shuler's cousin. He is active in the 4x4 community and stated that he has told him about the issues at Tellico. I don't know where that will go but that's what he told me. He seems pretty legit but I've only just met the guy.

[k9crazy]

My understanding is that he has been contacted. That being said, CONTACT HIM AGAIN...and AGAIN...and AGAIN. The more letters that he gets the better. Here is his contact information:

Washington D.C. Office
512 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515
Phone: 202-225-6401
Fax: 202-226-6422

The Cannon House Office Building
District Office
356 Biltmore Ave. Suite 400
Asheville, NC 28801
Phone: 828-252-1651
Fax: 828-252-8734

[k9crazy]

It's official...Tellico is closed from January 1 to March 31st. Lower 2, 7, a portion of 8, and 9 are all closed for a period not to exceed 1 year. See the text of the Decision Memo below (in multiple posts):

DECISION MEMO

Forest Supervisor’s Orders for the
Upper Tellico Off-Highway Vehicle Area
USDA Forest Service Southern Region
Nantahala National Forest
Tusquitee Ranger District
Cherokee County, North Carolina


DECISION

I have decided to put into force two Forest Supervisor’s Orders for the Upper Tellico Off-Highway (OHV) Area on the Tusquitee Ranger District of the Nantahala National Forest. This decision is based on information gathered during a recent condition survey of high risk trail segments, and on public comments received during the scoping period. The Orders implement the following management measures:

1. A one-year closure of Lower Trail 2 (from the intersection with Road 420 west to Road 402), Trail 7, a portion of Trail 8 (from the intersection with Trail 9 to the intersection with Trail 10A), and Trail 9 in the Upper Tellico OHV area which prohibits operating motor vehicles on these trails during the closure period and sets penalties for violating the provisions of this Order.

2. A seasonal closure of the Upper Tellico OHV Area which prohibits operating motor vehicles on trails within the Area during the period between January 1 and March 31 each year and sets penalties for violating the provisions of this Order.

The following persons are exempted from these orders:

• Persons with a permit from the Forest Service specifically authorizing the otherwise prohibited act or omission.
• Any Federal, State, or local officer, or member of an organized rescue or firefighting force in the performance of an official duty.
• Owners or lessees of land in the Closure Area are exempt from the prohibitions listed above to the extent necessary to gain access to their land.
• Residents in the Closure Area are exempt from the prohibitions to the extent necessary to gain access to their residences.


PURPOSE AND NEED FOR THE ACTION

Direction in the Land and Resource Management Plan for the Nantahala National Forest (Amendment 5, 1994) identifies the lands within the Upper Tellico OHV Area as existing in Management Areas 1B and 2C. The description for these management areas state “These lands are managed to provide opportunities for public enjoyment of the Forest through motorized recreation – driving for pleasure in conventional and four-wheel-drive vehicles as well as machines commonly classified as ORV’s. While these uses will be encouraged on appropriate roads and trails, use will not be allowed to damage the Forests’ environment.” (MA 1B, p. III-57). Also, “Provide opportunities for vehicles commonly classified as ORV’s on designated routes primarily within designated ORV areas... if such use does not adversely affect other resources.” (MA 2B, p. III-67). These actions are needed to correct ongoing impacts to area waters and aquatic resources caused by sediment from the Upper Tellico road and trail system.

In October and November of 2007, the Forest Service conducted an initial condition survey of Upper Tellico roads and trails identified as “high risk” for sedimentation due to steepness or close proximity to water (about 16.5 miles of trail were evaluated). Drainage features constructed to remove water from trails were assessed - 61 % of these drainage features were properly functioning during the assessment. All trail segments assessed were contributing sediment to nearby streams to some degree. The Water Erosion Prediction Project (WEPP) computer model was used to compare trail management alternatives to the current condition (http://topsoil.nserl.purdue.edu/nserlweb/weppmain/). The sediment reductions projected to occur based on the closure of various trail segments (and the seasonal closure) were evaluated. These projections indicated that closing the proposed trail segments would maximize sediment reduction while also maintaining a viable trail system.

All trail bridges in the Upper Tellico system were also assessed for safety. Three trail bridges on Trail 8 were determined to be unsafe for OHV traffic and a portion of the trail was closed under an emergency order. Since it will not be possible to complete repairs to these bridges during the emergency closure period, this portion of Trail 8 was added to the year-long temporary trail closure order.

Scientific studies addressing the impacts of a winter seasonal closure were also reviewed. Multiple past studies have shown the degree of soil compaction and rutting, and therefore erosion potential, on a road surface is related to the number of freeze-thaw cycles, as well as the amount and type of traffic present. In areas where soil moisture is already high, there is increased potential for erosion (Halvorsen et al. 2001). Frequent freeze-thaw cycles typically occur during the winter months in the Southern Appalachian Mountains (Williams 1964). Also, during winter months, soil structure and function change (Sulkava and Huhta 2003) and most vegetation is dormant, which reduces natural buffer ability to assimilated eroded soil. And additionally, estimated increases in winter water yield resulting from the loss of hemlock from the forest (due to the effects of the hemlock wooly adelgid) approach 30% (Ford and Vose 2007). These known and potential increases in sedimentation of local streams during winter months affect aquatic habitat at a critical time for many aquatic species, including native brook trout (Schmitt et al. 1993).

Proposed Action 1, closure on Lower Trail 2 (from the intersection with Road 420 west to Road 402), Trail 7, a portion of Trail 8 (from the intersection with Trail 9 to the intersection with Trail 10A),and Trail 9, is needed to provide immediate resource protection measures. These trails have been identified as contributing to sedimentation in the Tellico River system. The closure will allow time for further evaluation of the resource condition associated with these trails, planning for long-term resource protection, and needed repairs to correct impacts to the area waters and aquatic resource.

Proposed Action 2, seasonal closure of the OHV Area, is needed for the purpose of preventing resource damage during a period when the area is most vulnerable to resource damage, and to allow for intensive maintenance of system trails. Seasonal closures have already been implemented at other all other mountain OHV areas on the National Forests in North Carolina.

The actions will be implemented pursuant to 36 CFR 261.50 (b) which states, “The Chief, each Regional Forester, each Experiment Station Director, the Administrator of the Lake Tahoe Basin Management Unit and each Forest Supervisor may issue orders which close or restrict the use of any National Forest System road or trail within the area over which he has jurisdiction.”

REASONS FOR CATEGORICALLY EXCLUDING THE DECISION

These actions do not individually or cumulatively have a significant effect on the quality of the human environment, and therefore, are categorically excluded from documentation in an environmental impact statement (EIS) or an environmental assessment (EA). The specific category, identified in Forest Service Handbook 1909.15 “Environmental Policy and Procedures” is Section 31.12 Category 1: Orders pursuant to 36 CFR Part 261 – Prohibitions to provide short-term resource protection or to protect public health and safety.


FINDING OF NO EXTRAORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES

No extraordinary circumstances exist that warrant further analysis and documentation in an EA or EIS. The District interdisciplinary team screened these actions for the presence of any one of the extraordinary circumstances identified in Amendment No. 1909.15-2007-1 to Forest Service Handbook 1909.15. Section 30.3 paragraph 2 lists the following resource conditions that were considered:

• Federally listed threatened or endangered species or designated critical habitat, species proposed for Federal listing or proposed critical habitat, or Forest Service sensitive species;
• Flood plains, wetlands, or municipal watersheds;
• Congressionally designated areas, such as wilderness, wilderness study areas, or national recreation areas;
• Inventoried roadless areas;
• Research natural areas;
• American Indians and Alaska Native religious or cultural sites;
• Archaeological sites, or historic properties or areas.

SCOPING AND PUBLIC INVOLVEMENT

The purpose of scoping is to determine the issues and concerns related to the proposal. Public involvement began on September 17, 2007 when a letter was mailed and emailed to groups and individuals known to be interested in management of the Upper Tellico OHV Area. The “scoping letter” requested comments on the proposed Forest Supervisor’s Orders. As a result, approximately 200 responses from individuals, groups, organizations and other government agencies were delivered to us by mail, emailed, phoned in or by personal visit to the District office. These responses conveyed numerous issues, and are summarized in the Response to Public Comments, in the project file.
Additionally, approximately 700 form letters were received by email from those people who supported any and all closures of the trail system. And approximately 400 form letters were received from people who favored trail repairs and reroutes, but not trail closures.
In the 30 day scoping period that began on September 17 newspaper articles were published in the Asheville Citizen-Times, The Cherokee Scout, and the Clay County Progress.

FINDINGS REQUIRED BY OTHER LAWS

Forest Plan Consistency – The actions in this decision are consistent with the Land and Resource Management Plan for the Nantahala and Pisgah National Forests (Forest Plan) and all Amendments to the Forest Plan.

Endangered Species – Implementing the actions in this decision will not adversely affect threatened or endangered species, or result in loss of any other species’ viability, or create significant trends towards Federal listing of the species under the Endangered Species Act.

Cultural Resources – The actions in this decision will not adversely affect any sites listed, or eligible for listing, in the National Register of Historic Places, nor will they cause the loss or destruction of significant scientific, cultural or historic resources.


NOTICE, COMMENT AND APPEAL OPPORTUNITIES

These actions are not subject to legal notice and opportunity to comment (36 CFR 215.4(a)). This decision is not appealable (36 CFR 215.12(f)).





/s/ Marisue Hilliard_____________ 12/18/07 __ ___

MARISUE HILLIARD DATE
Forest Supervisor
National Forests in North Carolina

[Fl-Krawler]

are they hopefully waiting till the 1st of the year to start all the closures? we are heading up there for the last week of this year, and i will be pissed if the 2,7,and 9 closures are going into effect immediately,,,

[s10er8]

Reading that it looks like it's effective immediately but it's hard to say. We were planning to go at the end of Jan but that is outta the question now...

[redneckengineered]

We need some clarification here. Am I reading that 2,7, 9, and part of 8 will be closed for a year starting Jan 1st and the whole park will be closed from Jan 1st to March 31st?

[Cape Fear]

Additionally, approximately 700 form letters were received by email from those people who supported any and all closures of the trail system. And approximately 400 form letters were received from people who favored trail repairs and reroutes, but not trail closures.


This hurts

[s10er8]

This hurtsYes it does.

[k9crazy]

We need some clarification here. Am I reading that 2,7, 9, and part of 8 will be closed for a year starting Jan 1st and the whole park will be closed from Jan 1st to March 31st?

My understanding is that Lower 2, 7, parts of 8, and 9 are closed immediately and will be for a time frame not to exceed 1 year while they do more studies. HOWEVER, THIS DOES NOT MEAN THEY WILL AUTOMATICALLY REOPEN AFTER A YEAR! Many times this type of closure is the beginning of permanent closure.

And the whole park will be closed from Jan 1 to March 31st, yes.


SFWDA, UFWDA, and BlueRibbon are evaluating this action and are evaluating potential responses now.

[Schmozilla]

I was there this past weekend and noticed provisions to close off 9 were already in place

[Never Monday]

My understanding is that Lower 2, 7, parts of 8, and 9 are closed immediately and will be for a time frame not to exceed 1 year while they do more studies. HOWEVER, THIS DOES NOT MEAN THEY WILL AUTOMATICALLY REOPEN AFTER A YEAR! Many times this type of closure is the beginning of permanent closure.

And the whole park will be closed from Jan 1 to March 31st, yes.


SFWDA, UFWDA, and BlueRibbon are evaluating this action and are evaluating potential responses now.

Heather your statement above combined with the new annual closure equals a 15 month closure for 2, 7, 9 and 8. This exceeds the 1 year maximum in the letter.

Please explain.

[redneckengineered]

Yea because I've got a ride up there this weekend which we planned in order to beat the winter closure and if they are slamming down 3 of the best trails then we may not go.

[Fl-Krawler]

Yea because I've got a ride up there this weekend which we planned in order to beat the winter closure and if they are slamming down 3 of the best trails then we may not go.

same here.. we have a ride planned for the last week of the year.. i dont know if its to late to get our cabin deposit back yet, but with half the good trails closed, its not worth the 10hr drive or the money we will be spending to make the trip

[Wes in TN]

Fl-Krawler and redneckengineered, isn't this exactly what "they" want you to do? After hearing about these potential (now official) closures I packed up and went down to Tellico alone to ride last weekend just to drop my letter of concern off on site. If "our" reaction doesn't improve you can count on Tellico being something we all just talk about a year from now. If I didn't have family coming in I'd be there again this weekend.

[pdm]

Heather your statement above combined with the new annual closure equals a 15 month closure for 2, 7, 9 and 8. This exceeds the 1 year maximum in the letter.

Please explain.

I just heard from Rick at USFS this morning and he said that the order he has in his hands states, "At this time, lower 2, 7, part of 8, and 9 are to be closed for up to one year..." He said that to him this means he is supposed to implement the closure today.

Monday, I know what you mean about 15 months exceeding the maximum, but that is not what concerns me. I have seen statements of maximum closure time before, and years later, guess what, the trails are still closed. :shaking: These orders are intentionally written as ambiguous and contradictory so as to have no legal responsibility if, after the designated time frame, the ongoing closure is disputed. :mad3:

[redneckengineered]

What a load this is. The least they could do is have the common courtesy to let people know the EXACT details instead of this nuanced bullshit. I mean, people need to know so they don't drive half-way across the country to find out it's closed down. What a bunch of ass clowns.

[Fl-Krawler]

wes, while i agree with what you are saying, for me to spend the $$ that i am, and the 10hr drive its just not worth it.. i just got off the phone with the forrestry service, the lady i talked to said that trails 2,7,8,and 9 were to be closed early, but when i asked if they had been closed yet, she paused for a minute like she didnt know and said they "should be".. lets just hope that the USFS drags their feet on closing and locking the gates at those trails.

looks like i will be up there wheeling no matter what, as we have already paid for our cabin in full, and its doubtfull we would be able to get any refund on this short of a notice.. does anybody know if windrock( or beasly knob) is open this time of year?, maybe we will may a day ride or 2 there to take up for the lack of trails at tellico

[Fl-Krawler]

another thing.. maybe everybody should avoid tellico now.. without our patronage, the local economy will likely suffer, and maybe the local residents can put pressure on the powers that be.. but then again, last time we was at tellico, we heard rumors of a casino going in behind walmart, if thats true, the town of murphy could probably care less about losing the ORV users.

[k9crazy]

I just heard from Rick at USFS this morning and he said that the order he has in his hands states, "At this time, lower 2, 7, part of 8, and 9 are to be closed for up to one year..." He said that to him this means he is supposed to implement the closure today.

Monday, I know what you mean about 15 months exceeding the maximum, but that is not what concerns me. I have seen statements of maximum closure time before, and years later, guess what, the trails are still closed. :shaking: These orders are intentionally written as ambiguous and contradictory so as to have no legal responsibility if, after the designated time frame, the ongoing closure is disputed. :mad3:

Exactly! It's really just one order that says "1 year" so in December of '08, if they haven't done what they said they would do, or if they want to just drag it out more, they'll just implement the winter closure, then do another Supervisor Order. The timeframe isn't the issue, it's the fact that they are closing them at all.

[k9crazy]

another thing.. maybe everybody should avoid tellico now.. without our patronage, the local economy will likely suffer, and maybe the local residents can put pressure on the powers that be.. but then again, last time we was at tellico, we heard rumors of a casino going in behind walmart, if thats true, the town of murphy could probably care less about losing the ORV users.

I disagree. In fact I think we need the exact opposite. We need to support the local economy as much as possible so they know that we won't desert them. I know that the challenging trails are closed, but we need to remember that we are a community of people that collectively use the area...maybe you are bored with 4, 5, and 6...but people just getting into this are not. And I know the first time I ran 4 I nearly shat myself because it was the hardest thing I had ever done. If I wasn't pregnant and not allowed to wheel right now, I'd be headed to Tellico this weekend to get in another run before the end of the year.

[uncc civilengineer]

Last time I was there a few months ago 4/5/6 were basically paved... While I hate that the local economy will probably notice differences it just doesn't make sense now to spend the $$ to drive to Tellico when Harlan is the same distance away...

[Sonnenburg]

does anyone know when the gates will actually go up? Think they'll be up by Saturday? I would assume that the 1-year closure would start on 12/31, but I'm just speculating

[Fl-Krawler]

i called this morning and the closures are supposed to be immediate.. the person i talked to said the trails should already be closed but basically didnt know for sure

[Sonnenburg]

I wonder if Chuck or someone else would be willing to check for gates before we leave on Friday to come up there..

[redneckengineered]

That's a good idea. Anyone local that can check?

[Cape Fear]

Here is the responce to public comments referenced in the closure order.

PDF

http://www.cs.unca.edu/nfsnc/nepa/tusquitee/tellico_response_to_comments.pdf

[Terrys_85_Toy]

Can we file suit against the Forestry Service too? :idea:

Essentially, they are the ones who have dropped the ball on mismanagement of land that has led us to this dilemma. Like the trout-nazis, we are loosing access to public lands due to mismanagement on the Forestry Service’s part. They seem to cower in the face of a law suit; maybe we could use that to our favor.

I don't know, just thinking out loud. :confused:

[redneckengineered]

The local economy is going to raise so much hell about this it's not even funny. I mean, Tellico Cabins, the campgrounds, etc are basically going to be out of business unless the Jeeps Unlimited crowd can still bring in enough money while they are running trail 4 back and forth.

[Never Monday]

I read this responce comment atleast 6 times. It seems prety PC, but does state there will be some kind of OHV area. It might never be as hardcore as some would like. But to atleast not lose all access is good.

"Agency Response:
The agency recognizes OHV’s to be a legitimate use of National Forest lands, but regulations and Forest Plan Standards also require the forest to limit environmental impacts from these activities. It is the Forest Service’s desire to maintain a sustainable and viable Upper Tellico OHV system while reducing sediment, meeting water quality standards and improving brook trout fisheries."

[McCracken]

I read the comments and saw how they used the same answer about 4 times :shaking: It's the go to plug after every question.

I can't wait to go up there in April and see the entire trail system clogged because everyone is on Guardrail, Helo Pad and School Bus.

[mudlite]

Well this bites!! It isn't worth driving 18 hours now to get to Tellico. We were just in the middle of planning a trip back down for fear of closures. I guess I am too late. My wife was even looking forward to getting back onto Trail 9 as it was were i asked her to marry me. We hadn't been down since 2001.

How many days can you wheel in Harlan? What about Mountain City?

Shitty deal.:shaking:

[k9crazy]

I don't know, just thinking out loud. :confused:


Keep thinking...it's a good thought. And one we will consider seriously.

[k9crazy]

Yeah, ya'll are right. This does bite. The FS has, for lack of a better word, screwed us. They didn't do the maintenance. We worked our butts off to do what we could. But in the end, the threat of a law suit from TU won the battle.

BUT THE WAR IS NOT OVER. Stop whining and bellyaching about what a long drive it is and lamenting over how sad it is that Tellico is closing. IF YOU GIVE UP THAT EASY WE WILL LOSE THE WAR.

I hope from the bottom of my heart that ya'll are seriously pissed off about this and that we as a group will spread the word that we will not stand for these closures. We support our friends, Tellico Cabins and Crawfords, and all the others and we don't want to see them suffer. Believe me, they know what this is going to do to them, and I sure hope they can weather the winter so that they are there for us next spring.

Dixie Run was supposed to have raised over $21K for the Rescue Tellico effort, and only a very small fraction of the money that was pledged was actually donated. If you said you'd send money, then be true to your word and send it in.

And for the rest of you, if you want to give up and back down from this fight and go somewhere else, that's your choice. But that can't happen forever. Sooner or later you will run out of places to go.

[Never Monday]

April 5, 2008 will be the first Sat the trail will be back open. I'd like to see Crawfords FULL and the cabins with a waiting list. A convoy of street legal truck in Murphy, then bumper to bumper on the trails

[Bebe]

Yeah, ya'll are right. This does bite. The FS has, for lack of a better word, screwed us. They didn't do the maintenance. We worked our butts off to do what we could. But in the end, the threat of a law suit from TU won the battle.

BUT THE WAR IS NOT OVER. Stop whining and bellyaching about what a long drive it is and lamenting over how sad it is that Tellico is closing. IF YOU GIVE UP THAT EASY WE WILL LOSE THE WAR.

I hope from the bottom of my heart that ya'll are seriously pissed off about this and that we as a group will spread the word that we will not stand for these closures. We support our friends, Tellico Cabins and Crawfords, and all the others and we don't want to see them suffer. Believe me, they know what this is going to do to them, and I sure hope they can weather the winter so that they are there for us next spring.

Dixie Run was supposed to have raised over $21K for the Rescue Tellico effort, and only a very small fraction of the money that was pledged was actually donated. If you said you'd send money, then be true to your word and send it in.

And for the rest of you, if you want to give up and back down from this fight and go somewhere else, that's your choice. But that can't happen forever. Sooner or later you will run out of places to go.


Heather, do you all have any plans for fighting the FS on this? You can you know....it is possible to amend any decision.

[McCracken]

I said this on another board but I'm flaming pissed as well. SFWDA donated all that time and money to build sediment basins, water bars and bridges and they take it away and probably will claim it as their own knowing good and well that didn't put that kind of money and effort into it. I'm sure they'll put out a study and say that all the work they did on the trails works wonderfully and the permanent closure will stay.

I think we got a raw deal.

[Bebe]

I said this on another board but I'm flaming pissed as well. SFWDA donated all that time and money to build sediment basins, water bars and bridges and they take it away and probably will claim it as their own knowing good and well that didn't put that kind of money and effort into it. I'm sure they'll put out a study and say that all the work they did on the trails works wonderfully and the permanent closure will stay.

I think we got a raw deal.

Fight it.

It's not easy, but you can get an amendment to the Record of Decision by filing an appeal.

[weedwacker]

A few months ago I met with a realtor and asked her to keep an eye out for a small off the beaten path place to crash while I wheeled. I figured it would be a good investment.
She called yesterday and said she had a listing she thought I'd be interested in. I called her back today and said bluntly I would have no interest in property in that area if the trail system where to close and told her about the closure.

She flipped out! Hopefully the realestate brokers will help our cause. I was dumbfounded that she did not know about the closure.

What is the Murphy city council and business communty position on this???

Anyone know?

[weedwacker]

I just wrote a very civil note to the Murphy town council at the following link.

http://www.townofmurphync.com/contact.php

[weedwacker]

Another link.
http://www.cherokeecounty-nc.gov/departments/commissioners/

[McCracken]

I believe I'll follow suit. It doesn't do us any good for the USFS since that's federal but maybe some pressure from the town might help. it's worth a shot.

edit: sent!

[Tellico Cabins]

I just talked with the lady at the FS,(friday Dec 19) she has been telling people that Tellico trails 2,7,9 &8 are closed now.
Then she put me on hold and came back and said she made a mistake that
2,7,9 & 8 are still open and won't be closed till JAN 1st with the rest of the trails system.Call them if you want to verify 828-837-5152
Thanks lady!:mad3:
As far as the city and county, Chuck & I and Danny have worked hard to get the word out in Murphy and Cherokee county.
The county commisoners sent in a letter for our support after we went to a meeting and asked them to support us.
The City Mayor Bill Huges was not supportive at all (go figure)
his wife let us go in the parade with the Resuce Tellico truck followed by jeeps and buggies, the crowd and kids love it, they put on an awesome show going up on each others tires. We got good response for being in the parade.
The Chamber here is a joke, they have no idea the impact this will cause..

If people here don't know about the clousre they don't get out much, or they don't read the papers. We have been in almost every paper since Oct, made the front page several times. We are in Ashevilles today.
Right now just keep the letters and phone calls going.
Keep in touch with SFWDA.org fourm, they really need to hear from ya'll, It helps keep the resuce Tellico Committee going full force.
Thank you
Helen
Tellico Cabins

[redneckengineered]

I just got off the phone with the actual ranger not the receptionist. He assured me the ENTIRE park (except for that small portion of 8 where the bridge is down) is open and will remain open until January 1st at which point the new closures will go into effect. I said I’m coming a long ways to ride and if I get there and 2,7, and 9 are closed I’ll be hot and he said bring it on and ride it’ll be open. We’re going this weekend baby!

[Sonnenburg]

Helen - we appreciate the update. You and Chuck keep up the good work - thanks again.

[McCracken]

Well, though the decision sucks I'm pumped that it's still open. I'll be heading up there after Christmas.

[comeonstart]

Just sent 4 e-mails in the 2 links provided above. I hope everyone else does too. We got our butts kicked in the first round of e-mails and letters, lets not let it happen again.

[k9crazy]

Heather, do you all have any plans for fighting the FS on this? You can you know....it is possible to amend any decision.


We are working with UFWDA and BlueRibbon to evaluate our options. So the answer is YES, we will fight this!

[k9crazy]

Fight it.

It's not easy, but you can get an amendment to the Record of Decision by filing an appeal.

Actually, this was not a NEPA action, so there is no ROD (Record of Decision). And if you read the order, there is no avenue of appeal. However, that does not mean that we can not contest and fight the decision.

[Bebe]

Let us know if there is anything we can do for you.

Spread the word, letter writing etc.

As much as BRC and United can do, you know you can be a big part of that. Massive Public pressure works.

[comeonstart]

I got a reply from commisioner Jonathan Dickey, He cant do alot but every bit helps.

Bach....we as a "board" did pass a resoution and sent it to the forest
service....they paid no or little attention to it and did what they
wanted to anyway....my grandfather (it passed to us) owned 487+- acres
at the head of peckerwood creek, in the corner of cherokee county that
"butted" up to graham county, from the 40's until he passed in the late
80's and then my father and his brother and sister then split up the
estate and now we no longer have control of it,of course, ....i spent
most of my early and teen years in tellico and at the "fain cabins"
which was ours at the time...believe me...i know that country very well
and hate to see it closed or restricted as much as anybody...i will
continue to do what i can as a commissioner and individual for what good
it will do....i own the convenience store and subway across from
mcdonalds here in murphy...it will impact me as a merchant as well as
the others......we will just keep up the pressure for them to manage the
area and not just shut it off....let me know if you hear anything else
that might slip by us....thanks for your concern.....Jonathan Dickey

[mike giles]

if they are going to eventually close tellico why has all the work and money for the roads and bridges been done??? if there were bridges over all of the water crossings and the roads cleaned up to slow down future erosion whats the problem???
Its not like a fly fisherman is going to be fishing off slickrock.
I will say this I saw a hiking magazine that showed two girls waking up some of the trails and the magazine was blasting us for damaging the terrain.

hope everything works out i'll keep checking back to send e-mails where needed

[Alabamatoy]

if they are going to eventually close tellico why has all the work and money for the roads and bridges been done???

So they can log it. Wonder what that will do to the trout?

[broncomania79]

i just went here : http://www.sfwda.org/trails/tellico/donate.html
and donated $10.00
it adds up people. you put thousands in your rig, trailer,tow rig, equipment and put nothing in to save places to use it all at. donate today or we wont have a place tomorrow to ride.

you probably get tired of reading this stuff , but its important and there are lots of people not helping out.

just $1.00 per person would make thousands to help.

[DavidO]

Thanks. I did the same. Bump.

[McCracken]

I just got word that the USFS initial surveys will be wrapping up the week of March 5th. I wasn't sure if anyone knew when these "surveys" would be taking place but it does make sense that they were completed during the annual winter closure. the thing that sucks in my mind is that this is also the time of year the majority of rainfall occurs.... being the reason for the winter closure in the first place. More