This just in from Dave Pickett, ama d36:

All – THIS JUST OUT !

Amador County Supervisor BRIAN ONETO sent me this today. See e-mail listed below from Supervisor Oneto.

I had sent Supervisor Oneto a copy of the BLUE RIBBON COALITION COMMENTS regarding the El Dorado National Forest DEIS, and had asked him if might be able to attend this meeting.. I also briefed him on the basics of Route Inventory, etc. At the USFS meeting he was not a happy camper with what he heard……….
It appears that Supervisor Oneto was successful in obtaining some kind of meeting with the EDNF staff.

I, and Supervisor Oneto are urging everybody in the OHV community that can attend this meeting do so. If you missed any of the first 5 of these meetings, this is an opportunity to hear what the USFS has to say. In the body of the letter below, he is requesting OHV folks to attend.
I am blitzing this out because lead time is short, and if I receive more information, I will re-distribute.

D36 clubs Polka Dots MC & California Enduro Riders Association should take this opportunity to ask more questions specifically about enduro routes and issues concerning special recreation permits. This way, it goes on the boards as a question, and can be counted towards public comments.

Please pass this on to your club lists, or parties that may be interested. This is only 7 days notice…………………..

Will keep you posted.
Dave Pickett LAO D36

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Oneto [mailto:BOneto@co.amador.ca.us]

There is going to be another public comment session with the Forest
Service on the 13th of August, location- County Administration Center ,
810 Court Street, Jackson CA>, ground floor in the Board of Supervisor"s
chambers @ 6:00 PM.
I hope to see you there, tell a hundred friends.

Brian Oneto
District 5 Supervisor
Amador County
810 Court StreetJackson , CA 95642
Phone: (209) 223-6495Fax: (209) 257-0619

Good work.

I'll do my best to get the word out...

Thank you for sharing....

We will be there..

Please tell me Rameiro or HIS BOSS will be there!!

oh I am going to this one.
I love a party.....wonder if Ramiro will be able to attend this one

We will be there..

Please tell me Rameiro or HIS BOSS will be there!!

I have a call into the forest service to find out if he will be there

I have a call into the forest service to find out if he will be there


If he is not...request, NO DEMAND his boss' presence!


*Note.....should more of us call their office?

If he is not...request, NO DEMAND his boss' presence!


*Note.....should more of us call their office?


Good idea!!!

If he is not...request, NO DEMAND his boss' presence!


*Note.....should more of us call their office?

I doubt his boss would go, I emailed him to go to the Pleasant hill meeting with know responce.

wait until I get ahold of Jason to see if Ramiro will be going. if I cant get an answer from him today, we can all call the office tomorrow and make that request.

Why wait for Jason? We need to flood the office. Someone needs to be there:mad3:

cool down girl, I am on it. :D
Give me a chance first. I have a call into him but he is not in his office (and he does take my calls). I also have an email into him just a few minutes ago.
I will let ya know what I come up with

cool down girl, I am on it. :D
Give me a chance first. I have a call into him but he is not in his office (and he does take my calls). I also have an email into him just a few minutes ago.
I will let ya know what I come up with

:emb:sorry.....Im on a roll

We will be there..

Please tell me Rameiro or HIS BOSS will be there!!






I got this reply:

"This meeting to my knowledge is basically another opportunity for the
public to comment-again on the proposed route designation/process. I do
not know of an "end time". I do not know who will be there from the FS.


Brian Oneto
District 5 Supervisor
Amador County
810 Court Street
Jackson, CA 95642

maybe supervisor Oneto could request the forest supervisors presence!!

maybe supervisor Oneto could request the forest supervisors presence!!

I talked with supovisor Oneto and he indicated he did not know if the Forest Suporvisor would attened.
I have also spoken with the Forest Service and was told Ramiro "will attend if he is able to"

I talked with supovisor Oneto and he indicated he did not know if the Forest Suporvisor would attened.
I have also spoken with the Forest Service and was told Ramiro "will attend if he is able to"


I guess that's better than "no he's not coming"

I was told he is back in town now. for the first 5 meetings he was not around, he was with his very ill father down south

HERE YOU GO ! INVITE THE MEDIA TO THIS MEETING:
=========================================
Channel 31 news@kovr.com
=========================================
KCRA 3
3 Television Circle
Sacramento, CA 95814-0794
=========================================
Channel 10 New Director sowen@news10.net,comments@news10.net

=========================================

Someone needs to educate Supervisor Oneto. The previous meetings were NOT for public comment. Nor will this one I suspect. It seems like an opportunity for AMA folks to learn how to comment on specific event routes and special permits.

In order to be considered, coments needs to be submitted in a specific manner. Otherwise, they are not considered part of the Process.

Scott

I attended the Jackson public meeting tonight for the Eldorado National Forest.

I feel for the USFS folks that have to endure these meetings and attempt to sell us on the DEIS.

Words like travesty and farce come to mind. But be that as it may. We need to be there and speak up at these meetings.

These are NOT comments – what you say in the meeting does not make it to the official comments. You MUST still write your comments in letter form and submit them later (before Sep. 4th).

These meetings are designed to help you understand HOW to write comments and WHAT to write comments about.

With that in mind, we hope to have bullet points and key issues posted to help you respond to the draft EIS.

Remember these points:]

1. Form letters and group letters are not counted with any more weight than an individual letter.

2. Everyone must write comments (substantive) to be considered to have *standing* in the process. If you have standing, you can appeal the final decision or be part of any future lawsuits.

3. Do not hesitate in your WRITTEN comments to mention the fact that for sure since three years ago this month (July), we’ve been advocating for better management of our trail in WRITING – with our 10-Point Plan to Manage the Rubicon. Heck that doesn’t even count that we’ve been working on it for SEVEN years. Our old 10-Point plan is old; and we’ve implemented some of the points already, but review what we said in the 10-Point Plan here: http://delalbright.com/Rubicon/plan_10_point.htm

4. Make sure your written comments are substantive – that means meaningful, useful comments. You can talk about HOW you use the Forest; WHAT you like about the trails and the roads; HOW you camp; and especially WHAT trails and riding areas you USE and want LEFT open or RE-opened.


Del

Del Albright
BlueRibbon Coalition Ambassador
Trail Boss, Friends of the Rubicon
Env. Affairs Coordinator, CA4WDC
www.delalbright.com

I was told he is back in town now. for the first 5 meetings he was not around, he was with his very ill father down south

I hope you have already scheduled a special meeting with him for you and Kurt and ?? It would be very useful to do.


Scott

I just extended the invite for tomorrow to Mr Oneto :)

I just extended the invite for tomorrow to Mr Oneto :)


It would be nice if he comes!

OK, Im new at all this land use stuff. I'v read most of what has been posted here and I guess I ready to jump in and help. I'm a close friend of the Oneto family, tell me what I can do to help Brian.

IT'S The 13th!!

Who else is going to be there???

Doesn't look like we're gonna make it :(

I will probably make it. pretty sore from the Barrett run Sunday:D

ill be there...and im possibly gonna be draggin GETTINTHERETOY with me

Well...I may be out too:( My friend's hubby is in the hospital for something and I have her kids. Im not sure they would appreciate me dragging 5 kids in there:shaking:. Eric may go, but he'll be late.

How late do we think it will run? And any word on Ramiero being there?

leavin here in about a half hour...see yall up there

I'm planning on heading over too! It will be tough with a 6pm start time, but I'll try.

How did it go??

where were you at??? it was ok....a lot of the same bs IMHO...the dude in the suit really got on my nerves...HE DEFINETLY DIDNT wanna be there past 8

It went pretty much the same as the others, which is to say that responsible motorized recreation had the massive majority (it actually seemed unanimous, tonight!). There were almost 70 people in attendance, including Supervisor Oneto, who asked the USFS folks some tough questions, and expressed the significant concern of his constituents.

There are now more questions on the record, with lots of good ones specifically about the Plasses Silver Lake Trail. USFS did pursue an easement on the short section of private property over which the right-of-way travels... the problem is that the property owner apparently requested a qualified easement, providing access only to street-legal vehicles, and essentialy locking out OHVs. Even though there was clear claim to non-street legal access for years, sufficient for a definite prescriptive claim, and a probable RS-2477 claim, the Forest accepted the limited claim. :(

Randii

I especially enjoyed the following quotes:

Jason Nedlo: "Due to the Court deadline, we did not work dispersed camping..."
Translation: they rushed their delivery. This will be a handy quote to have as we push for an extension.

When asked what specific science backs the conjecture that increased miles of roads translates to increased wildland fire risk?
Doug Barber: "We do not have documented evidence that OHVs cause fires" (exact quote)... and (paraphrasing) continued on to say that's why ENF has not closed the forest to OHVs, in contrast to TNF.

I wish I had a tape recorder -- I'll just have to settle for 70 witnesses. :p

Randii

When asked what specific science backs the conjecture that increased miles of roads translates to increased wildland fire risk?
Doug Barber: "We do not have documented evidence that OHVs cause fires" (exact quote)... and (paraphrasing) continued on to say that's why ENF has not closed the forest to OHVs, in contrast to TNF.

Randii

ya that really chapped my butt when that statement was made!

Oh, and what about the part where they said that if the trail does not look like a trail, it won't be part of the mapping system? Obviously, after one heavy snow, the trails don't always look like trails the following spring. New growth, pine needles, fallen timber, etc.

I still want to know how the heck they got from Alternative A, all the way down to Alternative D, when Alternative A, is not really an Alternative??? (it's just a starting point - WTF?) Why bother with B and C if they already made up their minds about D?

Randii, do you recommend that I write one letter with several issues, or several letters on separate issues? I think I'll hand deliver mine to the office and have them date stamp it as received.

What did you guys think about Doug and his comments?

Have you ever seen what our non-participant Forest Supervisor looks like?

I decided to do a search on him and read his quote in the center of the page and how well spoken he is.:laughing:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/newslog/august2006/focus/eld-supe.php

*clamps mouth shut*

Have you ever seen what our non-participant Forest Supervisor looks like?

I decided to do a search on him and read his quote in the center of the page and how well spoken he is.:laughing:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/newslog/august2006/focus/eld-supe.php

I just got word that his father just passed away this weekend.

I know he SHOULD be involved a little more in route dez, but you gotta cut the guy a little slack. His dad has been pretty sick. The FS should have had someone else in a simular position stand in for him during these meetings.

I agree... cut him some slack for his loss, but the Forest Service is slacking in the fact that he needs someone to step in while he's going through his time of loss... ESPECIALLY now...

I agree Kurtuleas.... Don't worry, I plan to offer my condolences in one of the first few sentances of my letter(s).

It's just that everything is bad timing and WE only have 45 days...well, 20 now (including a holiday) to try and scramble to voice our side. The ENF had 2.5 years to come up with this and there are still flaws that not only we need to find and fix in the DEIS, but also work our tails off to "justify" why we want the trails to remain open. It's almost as if we need to do their homework for them!

They've created a NO win situation for us, but I hope that by some miracle, we can prove them wrong!

Meet our main opponent ....yes, I have some time to surf the net today.

Thought this was an interesting article and there is more out there of the like.......
http://www.hcn.org/servlets/hcn.Article?article_id=10012#

Has anyone gotten a copy of Karen's report on "California Off-Highway Vehicles: In the Money and Out-of-Control"???

Oh, look what I found. How generous of her to post it on her website.

http://www.sierraconservation.org/OHV%20report%20699.pdf

I still want to know how the heck they got from Alternative A, all the way down to Alternative D, when Alternative A, is not really an Alternative??? (it's just a starting point - WTF?) Why bother with B and C if they already made up their minds about D?

Randii, do you recommend that I write one letter with several issues, or several letters on separate issues? I think I'll hand deliver mine to the office and have them date stamp it as received.

What did you guys think about Doug and his comments?

When I asked about Alternative A, Lester made it clear that he didn't want to talk about Alternative A, because he didn't answer my question. Alternative A isn't a "no action" alternative because it contains provisions already forbidden by the Forest Service in 2005. I believe that this is one of those "procedural" errors that may help our cause.

As far as the letters - I have found that dealing with 1 issue at a time has been the most effective way to get a point across. Besides, it gives them more to read...

About Doug Barber...

I came away from the meeting thinking that he was the most honest of all the Rangers that we have seen. But what's the expression about the "wolf in sheep's clothing"?

In the end, his remarks don't matter, the Forest Supervisor's family issues don't matter (although I'm sorry for his loss), this is battle for our rights.

Strategy is key. We have to look at the facts contained in the DEIS and find all those details that don't make sense, like the ones we are pointing out here. And write those inconsistencies down in our comments.

Some other interesting comments from Doug:

We did the best job we could given the time allotted to us

We are talking to our lawyers and asking about an extension

Answer to Randii's question about how many trails are actually ever reopened - "very small amount"

Amy

Does anyone know if this group is involved in our fight? I think they would be a great advocate for us if not.

Amy, Randii?? What do you think?

http://americantrails.org

I still want to know how the heck they got from Alternative A, all the way down to Alternative D, when Alternative A, is not really an Alternative??? (it's just a starting point - WTF?) Why bother with B and C if they already made up their minds about D?
I've seen that slide show more than a few times, and it still doesn't fully make sense to me. Doug Barber's introductory comments were IMHO clarifying, if not satisfying.

Randii, do you recommend that I write one letter with several issues, or several letters on separate issues? I think I'll hand deliver mine to the office and have them date stamp it as received.
If you have multiple related points, put 'em in the same letter. I recommend individual letters for individual issues for most people, because they are simpler to write (especially from a template) but if you have more issues and concerns, and can write multiple substantive bullets, go right ahead! :cool2:

Randii

Alternative A isn't a "no action" alternative because it contains provisions already forbidden by the Forest Service in 2005. I believe that this is one of those "procedural" errors that may help our cause.
Agreed. I commented at the Placerville meeting that they lacked a true no-change alternative, since they have no alternative that includes all of the 1990 OHV Plan Routes. Mix in the withdrawal or the cross-country travel restriction, and you have an inherently flawed alternative on two major grounds.

They have not provided a broad range of alternatives, just a cluster or closure-oriented restrictions. Alternatives B, C, D, and E are all clustered to the end, with nothing between them and 'Alternative A.'
• 4062 miles - Actual Inventory: Alternative A + 863.7 miles (1977 routes not called out)
• 3198 miles - Alternative A: claimed no-change alternative
• 1844 miles - Alternative B: provides high level of motorized access and addresses resource concerns
• 1728 miles - Alternative C (proposed): provides high level of motorized access and addresses resource concerns
• 1546 miles - Alternative D (preferred): provides a balance between recreational opportunities and reducing resource concerns
• 1371 miles - Alternative E: provides greater protection for forest resources and increased opportunities for non-motorized recreation activities

Randii

I have been monitoring the American Trails organization for several years.

They are an advocate for trails and responsible recreation. Their majority of their support comes from non-motorized groups.

In my conversations with them, they are interested in increasing the motorized involvement. Most of their motorized is centered on dirtbike/atv trails and trail maintenance/construction techniques.

They are not into the route designation other than to support the overall process. I would not look to them to be a source of legal assistance to fight trail closures.