Hey guys, I have a 302 out of my 1994 stang and was debating on putting it in my 2000 TJ. My question is what Trans and transfer case do I want to put behind that thing? Is there something out of an older ford truck maybe I could put in together? I'm guessing most of the T-cases are all going to be passenger side drops? If I do it I'm going to be putting a D60 up front so I could go Driver or passenger. Anybody know the easiest parts to swap over? Thanks:mr-t:

all ford cases are going to be drivers drop.

Pretty much any ford tranny will bolt up to it, and any ford fullsize t-case will slide on the back of that.

Personaly, I'd look for a NP435/205 setup from a 70's truck, and then get a bellhousing from a 80's truck so you can have the hydro clutch.
The nice thing is, everything interchanges really nicely.
Or even better would be to get a ZF 5 speed from a 87+ truck, from behind a 351W, they are really, really nice tranny.

I'd do the Np435 and 205, maybe throw in a 203 in there for a doubler if you want more crawl ratio...If you want an automatic, a c6 trans can be built cheap enough as well.

for an auto use a c4 form an early bronco with a dana20. light compact and strong as hell. if you are wanting manual do as said above.

Will the C4 with stand about 400HP? I was thinking of doing auto for this project.

Plenty of the mustang guys have C4's behind their big HP transmissions without problems. The c6 will bolt to it as well, but is bigger. Chances are if the stand didn't have a c4 it had a 4r70W or some variation of the two, which are basically the same transmission. The 4r70w is a rework of the C4 transmission. They can be made plenty strong.

Keep the stock NV3550, put in a D300 flip if necessary depending on your front axle.

400 HP is hard to get out of a streetable 302 FYI. Unless you plan on never running pump gas or running it below 4000 RPM, my guess would be you'd be in the low to mid 300 range after spending a lot of money. An NV3550 should hold up to the task of handling a 302 in a TJ.

I have a couple buddies with the nv3550 and both have abused and subsequently had problems with them (nothing a simple rebuild didn't take care of but even a simple rebuild takes time and money). I'm talking newer TJs with 4.0L and 33s. THey might be stouter on paper than the ax-15 but i've seen ax-15s take some abuse and mine was near 100k trouble-free miles when I sold it.

I'm running a t-19 in my buggy out of an f350 but only because I pulled it from a truck I parted and it didn't cost me a penny. I vote NP435 and EB D20/205/whatever you want and fits. Do it right or do it twice. I'm sure you won't have that much trouble selling the 3550 to some kid who got too excited leaving the mall.

Did you know there's a ridiculously detailed 302 into Jeeps swap thread in jeep hardcore tech?

How about a 700R ? might even be able to keep your stock t-case. I haven't loked into this swap but a buddy with a early Bronco was going to do a 700R swap with a 241 t-case.

Will the C4 with stand about 400HP? I was thinking of doing auto for this project.

With ease, theres a reason you see so many dragsters with C4's and 9"s. Plus it's a fairly light transmission. You might also want to look into an AOD trany out of a 86-90 5.0 Bronco/F-150 if you want the option of overdrive. I'd just go pull the whole trany/tcase assembly out of one and bolt it up. Both of those trany's can be built to handle anything that you can through at them if you are worried about over abusing them.

Keep the stock NV3550, put in a D300 flip if necessary depending on your front axle.

400 HP is hard to get out of a streetable 302 FYI. Unless you plan on never running pump gas or running it below 4000 RPM, my guess would be you'd be in the low to mid 300 range after spending a lot of money. An NV3550 should hold up to the task of handling a 302 in a TJ.

Motors done already. I have my OEM motor with a few mods and I have the motor that's in my stang now. It's a 306, with GT40 everything and keith black pistons. It was set up for a supercharger and dynoed at 510 at the wheels with 8 PSI. I don't have the charger but I'm figuring around 390 to 410HP without it. Runs on super my friend. Probably run on less with such low Comp. IT's also amazing what a laptop tuner will do for you. You could run anything on anything!!

Well thank you everyone for your help. I think I like the idea of the C4 or 4r70w. I would like to keep the weight down As much as possible and that would certainly help. Thanks again to all.

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Did you know there's a ridiculously detailed 302 into Jeeps swap thread in jeep hardcore tech?

Any chance you have a link for me? I can't search. Thanks

Hey one more thing guys. Which T-case will have the lowest crawl ration and which tranny has the lowest first gear??? THanks again :p

from the factory a np435/d20 combo will be your best bet. unless you want to buy alot of adapters and put in an early chevy nv4500.

from the factory a np435/d20 combo will be your best bet. unless you want to buy alot of adapters and put in an early chevy nv4500.

Problem is, they never put a 20 behind a 435 from the factory. But it IS a sweet combo none the less..

I wouldn't waste my time with a NV 4500 either, when a ZF bolts right in, is lighter, comparable or better strength, and cheaper... But thats just my opinion..

As for lowest ratio, a NP 435 has the lowest first for sticks, and the BW13-45 for t-cases.

Motors done already. I have my OEM motor with a few mods and I have the motor that's in my stang now. It's a 306, with GT40 everything and keith black pistons. It was set up for a supercharger and dynoed at 510 at the wheels with 8 PSI. I don't have the charger but I'm figuring around 390 to 410HP without it. Runs on super my friend. Probably run on less with such low Comp. IT's also amazing what a laptop tuner will do for you. You could run anything on anything!!

Sorry dude, I don't buy it. Horsepower numbers, fuel economy and dick size all have a factor of 1.5 next to them.

And if you are talking about a desktop dyno and real HP numbers you are smoking crack. GT40 heads are not the best on the market in case you are wondering. If you were sporting AFR185's or SVO heads, maybe it would be a little different. It's hard enough to pull a stroker motor through the 400-450 range and still run on "Super" which I'm guessing is low 90's octane - let alone a relatively stock 302.

I call bullshit on 510 RWHP on 8psi and 306 CID on pump gas. I can see over 10 psi and 7000+ RPM running 115 octane, or maybe in the 347-408 CID range but that's it. Laptop tuners don't change the rod ratio, piston weight, rotating assembly - or add windage trays and crank scrapers. There are plenty of ways to gain shitloads of horsepower in SBF, however there are huge tradeoffs to be made - especially in 302s.

Off-topic, yes, but I think you should be a little more realistic with HP numbers.:flipoff2:

FordFascist,

I agree with you. I wave the BS flag as well.

Keep in mind that the 4R70W is a computer controlled tranny. It will not operate properly without the correct computer. I don't know much about what trannies were offered in stangs, so I don't know if you'll be able to find a stang 302/4R70W computer. Is the 302 mass air or speed density?

Seems a bit 'optimistic' for HP on a 306 running pump gas (93 octane). Like was posted the GT40 stuff isn't the 'top of the line' as far as squeezing out all the HP/TQ from the SBF. And cam selection also means a hell of a lot.

My Ford Racing 5.0 with GT40 heads, B cam, GT40 tubular manifold, 65mm TB, 24# injectors and MAF, and headers is rated at 345hp from the gurus at FRPP:
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r320/HackFabrication/WiringProgress005.jpg

That being said, back to your original Q: I'd either build a C4/Atlas or STak or an AOD/Atlas or STak combo. Yeah you can find a Bronco Dana20, you can flip a Dana 300, or you can get a C4/205. All have pathetic low ratios. The Dana 300 and Bronco Dana 20 can be mod'd to lower gearing. But for the extra $$$ I'd be looking seriously at a STaK or Atlas Tcase. Both the Dana 20 and 300 have weak output shafts, the aftermarket cases address this. The 205 is a big case, and only has a 2:1 low. Yeah you can mod it with IIRC a 3:1 kit. Or you can add a 203/doubler. All more money. KISS is my theme.

Seen too many C4s shit the bed with alot of power and when it gets to hopping it usually chokes. SB C6 of a ZF if you need the OD, 435 if you dont. The ZF may be too big for a jeep though.

Sorry dude, I don't buy it. Horsepower numbers, fuel economy and dick size all have a factor of 1.5 next to them.

And if you are talking about a desktop dyno and real HP numbers you are smoking crack. GT40 heads are not the best on the market in case you are wondering. If you were sporting AFR185's or SVO heads, maybe it would be a little different. It's hard enough to pull a stroker motor through the 400-450 range and still run on "Super" which I'm guessing is low 90's octane - let alone a relatively stock 302.

I call bullshit on 510 RWHP on 8psi and 306 CID on pump gas. I can see over 10 psi and 7000+ RPM running 115 octane, or maybe in the 347-408 CID range but that's it. Laptop tuners don't change the rod ratio, piston weight, rotating assembly - or add windage trays and crank scrapers. There are plenty of ways to gain shitloads of horsepower in SBF, however there are huge tradeoffs to be made - especially in 302s.

Off-topic, yes, but I think you should be a little more realistic with HP numbers.:flipoff2:

WEll it dynoed at 510 with a supercharger. If you remove that supercharger how much would you lose?? 100 to 130HP at the MOST!??! Are you trying to say that a supercharger is giving me like 180 horses? Well it's not. If you don't believe it dynoed at 510 I can fax you a copy of the dyno sheet you d-bag. :shaking: I don't B.S. people to make myself look better. #2 I don't see why you have such a problem seeing a 306 putting out 400 horses. So now what I have to list everything I havce to prove myself and my stuff to you. Do the board a favor, and don't even respond. Maybe I can scan the dyno sheets into my computer and put an end to your nonsense. :flipoff2::mad3::flipoff2:

1st there is plenty of C-4's that have lived past the 600hp rating. They are all over the net (performance automatic, dynamic transmision) and a few other companys. I have had one in my drag car backed to a very high hp 407 windsor. It lived until lots of NOS was injected into the motor. As for your little 302 I believe that a C-4 will handle your motor. 2nd you dont have to get a C-4 out of a Bronco, you can use a car tranny and buy a different output from Advanced Adapters to be able to use an Atlas.

I am running a warm little set up consisting of a 306, Eddelbrock, E303, Probe pistion, and a Vortech with a C-4 that has had good treatement with a reverse manual v-body and have no problems there. So take what you read on this site with a grain of salt. There are way to many haters with their mall crawlers.:flipoff2:

WEll it dynoed at 510 with a supercharger. If you remove that supercharger how much would you lose?? 100 to 130HP at the MOST!??! Are you trying to say that a supercharger is giving me like 180 horses? Well it's not. If you don't believe it dynoed at 510 I can fax you a copy of the dyno sheet you d-bag. :shaking: I don't B.S. people to make myself look better. #2 I don't see why you have such a problem seeing a 306 putting out 400 horses. So now what I have to list everything I havce to prove myself and my stuff to you. Do the board a favor, and don't even respond. Maybe I can scan the dyno sheets into my computer and put an end to your nonsense. :flipoff2::mad3::flipoff2:



I never said I had a problem with a 306 putting out 400 HP, dickwad. I have built my fair share of engines and can tell you that a small displacement V8 putting out that kind of horsepower numbers will hardly function below 3500 RPM. Horsepower (being a function of torque over time) along with engine displacement can very clearly tell someone where that engine makes power. Your 510 number is still suspect to me. Even at a low ballpark number of 15% powerloss through the drivetrain, that makes your BHP at 587 HP, on a 2 bolt main, with a cast crank, both in a car that runs on pump gas....BULLSHIT.

To further disprove you, I will use 8th grade math and a little bit of engine-building experience:

Say you have a 302 that makes 400 HP (which is not hard to do), that engine put out at least 300 ft/lbs of torque at 7000 RPM to achieve that horsepower rating. I have not built many 302s that go much over 350 ft/lbs of torque at peak torque ratings, as the 3.00" stroke is somewhat of a limiting factor. It's not impossible to get that but usually you have to rev the piss out of a short stroke motor to pull some power. Even pulling 350 ft/lbs, you would need to output that number at 6000RPM to get exactly 400 horses. Nope, still don't buy it.

I've built engines that will do that all day long, using lightened H-beam rods, knife-edged cranks, 4 bolt main caps with splayed bolts, longer rods, solid camshafts, Victor Jr. intakes, etc... and they don't run in the low RPM bands for SHIT. They also refuse to run over about 3000 RPM on pump gas. Yes, I have constructed a race 302 that made 521 HP at 8700 RPM and can tell you it was the most miserable piece of shit to do anything with but race. So if your engine even approaches that HP number (and I stress if), you would have the shittiest driving Jeep (or Mustang for that fact) in the world.

The "GT40" stuff is not what I would have bought to make oodles of horsepower either, but I'm sure you know that.

Since you are apparently brilliant and cannot make excellent use of the search function and the Jeep FAQ of putting a 5.0 in a Wrangler, it further proves my point that you are not capable of counting beyond single digits.

Oh yeah I'll scan in my dyno numbers too. We'll compare e-wang sizes, but I'm sure I already won.:flipoff2:

Ain't he a bitch....AND I have seen the motors he is talking bout run....you should try the disney forum.....lower end TQ is what you want for wheelin BTW....welcome to the poorly built engine club (if you specs are true)

I never said I had a problem with a 306 putting out 400 HP, dickwad. I have built my fair share of engines and can tell you that a small displacement V8 putting out that kind of horsepower numbers will hardly function below 3500 RPM. Horsepower (being a function of torque over time) along with engine displacement can very clearly tell someone where that engine makes power. Your 510 number is still suspect to me. Even at a low ballpark number of 15% powerloss through the drivetrain, that makes your BHP at 587 HP, on a 2 bolt main, with a cast crank, both in a car that runs on pump gas....BULLSHIT.

To further disprove you, I will use 8th grade math and a little bit of engine-building experience:

Say you have a 302 that makes 400 HP (which is not hard to do), that engine put out at least 300 ft/lbs of torque at 7000 RPM to achieve that horsepower rating. I have not built many 302s that go much over 350 ft/lbs of torque at peak torque ratings, as the 3.00" stroke is somewhat of a limiting factor. It's not impossible to get that but usually you have to rev the piss out of a short stroke motor to pull some power. Even pulling 350 ft/lbs, you would need to output that number at 6000RPM to get exactly 400 horses. Nope, still don't buy it.

I've built engines that will do that all day long, using lightened H-beam rods, knife-edged cranks, 4 bolt main caps with splayed bolts, longer rods, solid camshafts, Victor Jr. intakes, etc... and they don't run in the low RPM bands for SHIT. They also refuse to run over about 3000 RPM on pump gas. Yes, I have constructed a race 302 that made 521 HP at 8700 RPM and can tell you it was the most miserable piece of shit to do anything with but race. So if your engine even approaches that HP number (and I stress if), you would have the shittiest driving Jeep (or Mustang for that fact) in the world.

:


Alright Engine builder... I never said GT-40 stuff was the best stuff in the world so I don't know why you keep bringing it up. Secondly, look at Hacks post. If he has a 302 putting out 345 HP. How can you find it not feasable to squeeze out another 40-60 horses? Bored .030" over, Blue printed and balanced, windage tray, cam selection, Laptop tuner that I've been messaging for the last 5 years. Good port job, 75mm TB matched to the GT-40 upper, 30LB injs. I mean seriously already. I don't think we need to argue anymore. Everybody has an opinion.

So you have a laptop tuner but cant figure out how to scan/post dyno sheets?

Any chance you have a link for me? I can't search. Thanks

Buy a couple cases and start reading:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45309

Oh, and any other Q's might be better posted and answered on the Jeep non-hardcore forum.