has anyone run their allpro hi steer arms backwards with full hydro steering? i don't have my axle assembled but seems like if you put the right arm on the left knuckle, backwards and vise versa it would work. would it clear the 3rd member? low-pinion.

Originally posted by poppycock
has anyone run their allpro hi steer arms backwards with full hydro steering? i don't have my axle assembled but seems like if you put the right arm on the left knuckle, backwards and vise versa it would work. would it clear the 3rd member? low-pinion. Mock it up and give us the answer!!!!:smokin:

Intresting idea

i'm waiting for my lonfields before i put it back together... then i'll know for sure :D

http://www.kongs4x4.com/kongstoyotaproducts.html

same price, better stuff....by it and ill trade you for my all pro setup:D

If you put the arms on backwards, the ackermann angle will be wrong ... if the arms point to the rear, they would ideally be angled inwards, not out which is how they are when pointing forwards. Wouldn't really matter on a trail only vehicle.

Andrew

Originally posted by Chris Geiger
Intresting idea

Damn it! you were just there.....I guess you could change your mind , and cut it all out & put it backwards.

Doh... I forgot you've got those f450 outers .I guess this doesn' apply.
weldpro

Originally posted by stkman
If you put the arms on backwards, the ackermann angle will be wrong ... if the arms point to the rear, they would ideally be angled inwards, not out which is how they are when pointing forwards. Wouldn't really matter on a trail only vehicle.

Andrew

Being that ackerman is a line drawn through the front knuckle pivot center to the center of the rear axle - a front facing arm that points outward would indeed be correctly pointing inward when the arm is facing rearward.

i can't see why it wouldn't work. looks like my polished turd is gonna get behind the knuckle steering. :flipoff2:


booger - i already have the allpro arms...

Originally posted by weldpro


Damn it! you were just there.....I guess you could change your mind , and cut it all out & put it backwards.

Doh... I forgot you've got those f450 outers .I guess this doesn' apply.
weldpro

I looked at that when I did my steering, just no way to fit the ram under the motor that far back. My engine is lowered 3" and the oil sump in is the rear of the motor. Don't want to raise the motor for the steering!

On my setup the steering is way up and out of the way with a little skid plate to protect the ram, I have no worries about it.

I tossed this idea around while re-building my axle. Threw the Kongs4x4 hy-steer arms on backwards and everything lined up fine.

Except the steering arms don't clear the brake calipers. :(

But, if you have the (smaller than Kongs) All-Pro arms and you haven't done a vented IFS rotor & caliper swap, it *might* clear. But not by much.

Turn the entire knuckles around backwards. Put the left side arm on the left side though, and the Ackermann should be close to correct. Right side arm on the right side, but put the left side knuckle and caliper, on the right, and right side knuckle and caliper, on the left (knuckles on backwards) and your brake clearance woes are over.

That's basically what I did when I had reversed D44 steering. Now that I have reversed D60 steering, but with D44 brakes, I didn't have to stress. Lotsa room.

With hydro steer, it's no problem... but with regular draglink steering, it'd be a serious problem unless you move the steering box way back (and the axle way forward) or run a right side double arm (which doesn't exist, that I've ever seen) like Eric Ruhl's double D44 arms.

Originally posted by Scott@Rockstomper
...but with regular draglink steering, it'd be a serious problem unless you move the steering box way back (and the axle way forward) or run a right side double arm (which doesn't exist, that I've ever seen) like Eric Ruhl's double D44 arms.

This is exactly what my steering setup is gonns be like. (Starting on it next weekend). It will be on my truck with the axle moved 9" forward, right side double arm (making myself out of 1.125 cold rolled steel) and using a saginaw forward facing pitman arm...

I think it is gonna be cewl. It will be the first Toy axle that I have ever seen with a behind the diff pitman. (NOTE "that I have seen", Im sure they exist.)

Originally posted by TyTy
I think it is gonna be cewl. It will be the first Toy axle that I have ever seen with a behind the diff pitman. (NOTE "that I have seen", Im sure they exist.)

I'm glad you said Toy axle... 'cause I'm on my second front axle under a Toy, with reversed high steering. But neither of them is a Toy axle.

At 9" forward, you're pretty much done with the concept of leaf springs, but I think you're in trouble for steering anyway. I had to go 16" forward because of not wanting to push the steering box through the firewall....

WHY?

highsteer with 4140 chrom tie rod, and be done, if you break that, your doing something really wrong....

crash: WHY?

highsteer with 4140 chrom tie rod, and be done, if you break that, your doing something really wrong....

cause all i'd have to do to get it is reassemble my axle a bit differently... and spend $0 to get it. :D

Originally posted by Scott@Rockstomper


I'm glad you said Toy axle... 'cause I'm on my second front axle under a Toy, with reversed high steering. But neither of them is a Toy axle.

At 9" forward, you're pretty much done with the concept of leaf springs, but I think you're in trouble for steering anyway. I had to go 16" forward because of not wanting to push the steering box through the firewall....

Naw, Ive got a really strange setup right now. I am using 44044's. Might be more like 7-9 inches of forward axle. I just built a frame extension and ran with it. Eventually I wanna get some coils up front but no mula...

Anyway, I dont understand why you had to go 16" forward so that your steering box wouldnt be through the firewall:confused:

If you moved your axle forward 16" wouldnt your steering box need to be forward 16" approximatly?

I guess I had better figure this out before I do it weekend after this...

(Was gonna be this weekend but I am going to Maryland to pick up my 02 Dodge 2500 6cyl. 6 speed!!!!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D)

Originally posted by TyTy
Naw, Ive got a really strange setup right now. I am using 44044's. Might be more like 7-9 inches of forward axle. I just built a frame extension and ran with it. Eventually I wanna get some coils up front but no mula...

Aha, frame extension. Yeah, you can do that, I wanted past-90 approach and departure, so I didn't stretch the frame.

Anyway, I dont understand why you had to go 16" forward so that your steering box wouldnt be through the firewall:confused:
If you moved your axle forward 16" wouldnt your steering box need to be forward 16" approximatly?

Nope. I reversed my steering box (Toy IFS) with the axle, on the frame. Pushed the steering box back till I ran out of column to shorten. The box is about where the shock tower was, and the column doesn't have any column, just a shortie stack of joints coming out of the firewall. Put the pitman on backwards, pointing towards the front of the truck. Now when I roll the wheel left, the pitman goes right. Put the steering (draglink *and* tierod) on the back, and the pitman going right, pushes the steering arms right, which pushes the wheels left. Did I make your :confused: just that much worse? My two wrongs now make a left. Or a right. :)

I guess I had better figure this out before I do it weekend after this...

http://www.rockstomper.com/images/products/custom/shopjunk/hybrid has pics of the buildup in it. You can check out what I did. All bets are off if you use something other than a Toyota box; there's Saginaw stuff that goes either way in the same box casting, just different guts.

Here's a couple pics of it under construction--steering box location should make more sense here. It's since been swapped to a D60 front, and a lot of other stuff has been changed too, but at least this'll give you an idea of the steering.
http://www.rockstomper.com/images/products/custom/shopjunk/hybrid/MVC-023S.JPG
http://www.rockstomper.com/images/products/custom/shopjunk/hybrid/disc2/MVC-002S.JPG

(Was gonna be this weekend but I am going to Maryland to pick up my 02 Dodge 2500 6cyl. 6 speed!!!!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D)

...and you wonder why you got no moola? :)

Obviously, the steering box is of no concern whatsoever if you swap to full hydro steer, so the only real concerns there are tierod to the springs and tierod to the diff. Diff should be fine, not sure about the springs.

One other thing that comes to mind, though, is that with the All Pro high arms, the tierod only has about a 4" throw, and sits kinda close to the diff. That would probably need a pretty good sized cylinder to run as full hydro, like a 2.5 or maybe even bigger. Might get into packaging issues there. If you had two right side style arms, and put the tie rod in the farther-out (draglink) hole, you'd get more throw out of it, which would probably allow a smaller cylinder, maybe helping (and maybe hurting, I don't know for sure) packaging concerns. Not saying it's a bad thing, just that you're getting past what All Pro designed the arms for.

Scott,

I see exactly what you did now:D

Our setups are gonna be a lot different, however you have what I eventually plan to have (coils). I like the coils rahter than coilovers. I especially like how you have them adjustable:D

Anyway, I think my setup is gonna work out nicely. If it dosent Ill just run with it and figure it out. Ive been planning it out in my head for long enough it should.

Right now my approach angle isnt that bad either. If my brother would get some 44s and gimme back my 38.5's I think I would be able to pretty much climb anything...

(Heres the best pic I got, has winch on there now...)

don't have my ram mounted yet but it works beautifully! i had to run my knuckles backwards with the calipers on the front to make it clear but otherwise it fits great.

SO basically the calipers are now in the BASH zone??

Let me ask a silly question here..

Ok, you are moving the steering crap to the rear right? Now granted, it will be well protected, but I am willing to bet the steering parts are more than tough? Correct? So now you move YOUR BRAKES into the front, where they will get bashed.. So now you have cratted a weak spot again in my mind...

Personally, "keep it simple stupid" is what i live by, build the steering parts to take a beating to death, ask DSI about the parts I did for him, won't go BOOM and his brakes are not jepordised..

Hey Scott that looks like your old delivery/parts truck. I haven't been down there in a little while but this is Scott up in Windsor. Looks good I will have to come and check that out.

Originally posted by crash
SO basically the calipers are now in the BASH zone??

Let me ask a silly question here..

Ok, you are moving the steering crap to the rear right? Now granted, it will be well protected, but I am willing to bet the steering parts are more than tough? Correct? So now you move YOUR BRAKES into the front, where they will get bashed.. So now you have cratted a weak spot again in my mind...

Personally, "keep it simple stupid" is what i live by, build the steering parts to take a beating to death, ask DSI about the parts I did for him, won't go BOOM and his brakes are not jepordised..


the only thing i'd be worried about really is the brake lines getting crushed... i hadn't thought about it untill you posted so i'll have to check out how unprotected i am there. if it won't work it's no big deal to switch it back.