Would any of the competitors like to submit an "official" story to P4x4 for a story? Even better, stories from several of the competitors would be sweet. I would like to put together something for the site....

Did you check out the various posts the guys had made? They did a pretty good job of telling some of the stories in them. Might be able to cut and paste some good stuff from them also.

I dont think Fourwheeler's gonna like that.
JMO though
ericfilar@fatcity

Originally posted by FatCity
I dont think Fourwheeler's gonna like that.
JMO though
ericfilar@fatcity

Just curious, did any of the competiters sign anything stating that they would not write up and publish there own stories prior to Fourwheelers own publication?

Eric

for individual stories look here (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59902&highlight=TTC) here (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60078&highlight=TTC) and here (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60464&highlight=TTC)
got search?!?!

Originally posted by FatCity
I dont think Fourwheeler's gonna like that.
JMO though
ericfilar@fatcity

that's life..... besides, it's just a little Internet website. Nobody comes here anyway. :p

Yeah, I spoke with John (the editor) about this,
They do not like it, but evey contract signed did not say anthing about it being illegal to do it, so run with it

Originally posted by FatCity
I dont think Fourwheeler's gonna like that.
JMO though
ericfilar@fatcity

I agree with Lance- who cares what FW thinks! Plus why buy FW when you can find out the scoup on their event as soon as it happens........Magazines..............outdated before they are even published.
POR- the new sheriff is in town.
weldpro

Lance go ahead and use some of my write up if you want or I could re-write it if I get time. It was a great event this year. Each of the ten trucks there were worthy competitors. I think that every year there is a truck at TTC that has no right being there but not this year. Everyone was tough.

Some of the most entertaining stuff won't even be discussed in the magazine, like 2 judges flipping thier Jeeps on Thursday night, stacking all of the competitors trucks at the camp, and lockings pigs in the shower.

Originally posted by weldpro
........Magazines..............outdated before they are even published.
POR- the new sheriff is in town.
weldpro
Very true, I have let my magazine subscriptions expire. Anything worth reading ends up here anyway. I consider my $20.00 per year "subscription" to the PBB a bargin. :)

HMMM Maybe Lance can put on a similar but better private event like TTC next year.

Have a few different classes though too.

Stock vehicles. I encourage those defender 90 owners and grand cherokee owners to come out and show us what you got.

We Like Latte Cruiser Carnage.

The we can also have all the people that would compete in the TTC show up to this event instead :D

I think a POR TTC would be a good idea. I would drive from Michigan for some thing like that!

Some sort of Off road Festival with a competition.

To benefit the rubicon and other trails :D

I read the paperwork I received last year and there was a waiver to be signed. After the mumbo jumbo, it basically says that fourwheeler has the right to use all pics/names etc as they see fit. I didn't read anything that said thjey were restricted from speaking to or about their event experience.

Originally posted by Monkeyboy
Some sort of Off road Festival with a competition.

To benefit the rubicon and other trails :D

Wouldn't that be CFC? Sorta a TTC on the rocks with donations to the FOTR and others? Next year call it Top Rock!!

Originally posted by Monkeyboy
HMMM Maybe Lance can put on a similar but better private event like TTC next year.

:D

we do it is called "caranage for the con"

In the immortal words of John Lennon; "We're bigger than Jesus!"

Better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission. DO it.:D

A writeup for POR is a good idea!

I just thought i would add this,
while talking to guys down there, (FW big wigs) they said they were upset that as soon as the event was over they read the whole report from Scott on the pirate site, and they cound not do anything about it.
I looked at brandon and said, CooL FW guys come to the Pirate site!

Mark where the hell do you think those get the cool tech that pops up in the rags every once in a while.

We will probably be seeing Camos new axles in the rags in 6 months :flipoff2:

I wrote Four Wheeler the day I got home and sent them some pictures of their photographer taking pictures thinking they'd get a kick out of the perspective and guess what..

Not even a reply..

Want me to put it together Lance? I was not there for the competetion but I did go for the day before and meet the competitors so unless someone else steps up I'll take it. I figure I allready asked for permission when I sent the email and got NO reply - Aholes! :flipoff2: Besides, thinks like saying thanks to FW for the free beer would just be fun to print ;)

Sheite, I wheeled with MudTruck he he (By the way glad to see you here, I got some super HiRes pics of you that you can have printed if you want)

http://www.rivercityrockcrawlers.com/TrailReports/TTC2002/TTC_208.jpg

Sounds good, man. Frog is going to do a full story for us too, so let's incorporate it all together.

Okey dokey, scores on top and perspectives and quotes below it, along with my own perspective..

TTC Standings
Here are the results that were announced. The exact times and points will be in a future 4 Wheeler magazine.

SHOW & SHINE
1 Lavender (Tall hood Flattie CJ3B)
2 JR (Bronco)
3 Dean (Chevy Stepside)
4 Cantrell (Orange Flattie, 44s)
5 Ramirez (Scout-Abba)
6 Mudtruck44 (Toyota)
7 Wolf359 (Land Cruiser)
8 Bryce (Blazer-mogs)
9 Toledano (Frog)
10 Godfrey (Raptor)

ENGINEERING
1 JR
2 Orange Flattie
3 Scout
4 Raptor
5 CJ3B
6 Mog Blazer
7 Wolf359
8 Stepside
9 Mudtruck44
10 Frog

RIDE & DRIVE
1 Stepside2 Abba
3 Orange Flattie
4 Mog Blazer
5 CJ3B
6 JR
7 Mudtruck44
8 Wolf359
9 Frog
10 Raptor

ACCELERATION
1 JR
2 Wolf359
3 Mudtruck44
4 Stepside
5 Frog
6 Scout
7 Orange Flattie
8 CJ3B
9 Mog Blazer
10 Raptor

BRAKING
1 Frog
2 Mudtruck44
3 Raptor
4 Wolf359
5 Stepside
6 JR
7 Orange Flattie
8 Mog Blazer
9 CJ3B
10 Scout

TOW
1 Frog
2 Stepside
3 Scout
4 Wolf359
5 Mog Blazer
6 Raptor
7 Orange Flattie
8 Mudtruck44
9 CJ3B
10 JR

FRAME TWISTER
1 CJ3B
2 Raptor
3 Mog Blazer
4 JR
5 Frog
6 Wolf359
7 Scout
8 Orange Flattie
9 Mudtruck44
10 Stepside

MUDPIT
1 Mudtruck44
2 Raptor
3 Stepside
4 Mog Blazer
5 Frog
6 JR
7 Scout
8 Orange Flattie
9 CJ3B
10 Wolf359

MINI RUBICON
1 Raptor
2 JR
3 Orange Flattie
4 Frog
5 Stepside
6 Scout
7 Mog Blazer
8 Mudtruck44
9 Wolf359
10 CJ3B

HILLCLIMB
1 CJ3B
2 Frog
3 Stepside
4 Raptor
5 JR
6 Orange Flattie
7 Mog Blazer
8 Wolf359
9 Mudtruck44
10 Scout

OBSTACLE COURSE
1 CJ3B
2 JR
3 Stepside
4 Raptor
5 Scout
6 Wolf359
7 Mudtruck44
8 Mog Blazer
9 Frog
10 Orange Flattie

TANK TRAP
1 JR
2 Raptor
3 Stepside
4 Wolf359
5 CJ3B
6 Mog Blazer
7 Frog
8 Scout
9 Orange Flattie
10 Mudtruck44

TOTAL POINTS
1 JR 92.5
2 Raptor 81.5
3 Stepside 81
4 CJ3B 69
5 Frog 68
6 Wolf359 62
7 Orange Flattie 61.5
8 Mog Blazer 60.5
9 Scout 60
10 Mudtruck44 51.5

By the way, I got no idea who the person is that posted that on RCRC - was it FW??

If PBB was toned down and made into more of a family site (heaven forbid! don't do it Lance!) it would be scary to think what this site could do.

We already have the PBB "Ultimate Tour" going on now, we have CFTC at Donner this year, so why the hell don't we do chit like the TTC? Granted, everyone here does this stuff on a weekly basis, but why not make something semi-official?






As far as stuff from here showing up in the magazines, yup, I agree. It's like I tell people that haven't heard about this place. This BBS is college level wheeling. The stuff you see in the magazines, the people here worked out the bugs in it, or helped to design it in some way.

Examples: CTM joints. Jack asked who wanted to test them for him. Alot of Jesse's shafts are custom jobs done for people here. I'm sure that with every shaft Jesse deos he finds some little way to improve, or he gets a better understanding of what people are looking for. Where did the first pics of JR's Bronco appear? Sure as fawk wasn't Peterson's. And who was suprised to find one of PBB's own in an article about hummer bead locks?

Besides, you know posting an article here will only increase sells for them for the zine and the vids...

Also r77toy just did the article on Cruiser fuel injection in one of the recent mags ;) I guess it just goes to show PBB is the cutting edge:D

JayK does a ton of zine articles for yota stuff

In that case, I will use wording from the board - but I'd rather not steal images from people, soo if you would be willing to allow pirate4x4.com to post your images (with credit somewhere) please zip em up and send em to me

I got hi-speed so go for it ;)

brandonmiller@attbi.com or ftp em to www.RiverCityRockCrawlers.com

user - temp
pass - temp

Shoot, videos too!

Don't want anyone to tell anybody about this, ok, but an event is in the planning stages. but you didn't hear it here.......

I really like TTC, I was not there in person but it didn't seem like it beat the shit outa rigs - that idea was cool, something everyone can do

The hard part about doing a write up is that there is no way that any of the competitors got to see everything. I know I missed a lot of stuff while working on the truck. No one really got to watch the tank trap either. I guess after Frog does a write up, each competitor can add thier side of the story. It should be a really good write up if everyone helps out. Could even be better than the one in the magazine. :D

They are going to be pissed at us.:D

Some one organize an online webcast interview or phone interview with all the competitors.

Then write the story.

Originally posted by FatCity
I dont think Fourwheeler's gonna like that.
JMO though
ericfilar@fatcity

Originally posted by Monkeyboy
Some sort of Off road Festival with a competition.

To benefit the rubicon and other trails :D

I say do something like this, but charge something like $20 to get in.. heck that could raise some good $$$. I know I woudl go!!

Lance, I was told by Jon Tompson, he would like me to start submitting my work to him. I would be willing to abuse my relationship with Fourwheeler a little and provide a TTC storie to P.O.R. as I did in 2000 @ Twistedaxle.com I am currently working in conjunction with Dan Black on an article for Sam at SRC. Would you like a Judges viewpoint story?

Originally posted by stover
Would you like a Judges viewpoint story?

Absolutely! PM me....

Lance,

I would love to tell my experience in detail of the coveted TTC experience. It would be a great honor. However, here are my thoughts on the subject:

Four Wheeler magazine spends a lot (A LOT) of money to hold this event every year. They hire water trucks, dump trucks, earth moving equipment, camera crews galore, medics, interviewers, recovery crew and equipment, and caterers. Not to mention cost of the exclusive access to the park for the event (including rangers), partial closing of the airport, food and beverages, video and magazine production, and their own advertising, just to name a few. And then there are the awards. I realize that some of the people are volunteers (like the judges), but you get the point that it is still an expensive event to put on. It is a MUCH bigger expense than any single rock crawling competition event. What they want in return is exclusive rights to the whole story. They make us scrape all our stickers off and sign a Release so that they and their advertisers can benefit from their sizable investment. They are just doing business.

You could post the story from all of the POR members well ahead of the magazine, but is it really worth POR burning bridges with the magazines? Magazines provide a lot of publicity. This could potentially be a great opportunity for POR in the magazines as 7 of the 10 competitors are members. Maybe it’s worth rethinking.

I posted a summary of my experience at TTC, but think a full-blown feature story might be an infringement. I belong to two unions (American Federation of Musicians Local 47 and Local 7) and feel there is something “scab” about this whole thing.


JMO

I've written a few articles for some newsletters / webzines/whatever..

The general rule was I could publish my stories to my own personal website - that's fine.

But only AFTER the "official" story was printed/posted/whatever on the "mag" site/newsletter.

I just made sure I didn't "scoop" the place I was submitting the article to by posting it on my own site..

So.. post the POR TTC write-up after FourWheeler prints theirs..

Originally posted by tsm1mt
So.. post the POR TTC write-up after FourWheeler prints theirs..

The only bummer with that is it will take 8 months for FW to finish with thier drawn out coverage:(

Originally posted by JR
You could post the story from all of the POR members well ahead of the magazine, but is it really worth POR burning bridges with the magazines? Magazines provide a lot of publicity. This could potentially be a great opportunity for POR in the magazines as 7 of the 10 competitors are members. Maybe it’s worth rethinking.

I posted a summary of my experience at TTC, but think a full-blown feature story might be an infringement. I belong to two unions (American Federation of Musicians Local 47 and Local 7) and feel there is something “scab” about this whole thing.


I disagree with this. Like it or not we are living in the "Information Age" and information that travels at the speed of light at that. FW is old school, if printing a story 3-4 months from now and then dragging the story out 3 months in their rag is how to do business this day in age. The times have changed ... not sure what the answer is but for coverage of events like this, they're just not cutting it ...

Maybe if POR scoops them considerably they'll rethink how they do business ...

- jack

Originally posted by Mustard Dog


The only bummer with that is it will take 8 months for FW to finish with thier drawn out coverage:(

True - I didn't say I LIKED the idea. :D

Of course, if POR has it's story ready to go.. maybe when FW puts out their print articles they could like to the POR article as well.

Good News - more exposure.

Bad news - More D.A.N. :D

Maybe they should just not tell anyone who wins. They could keep everyone in suspense that way. Seems to me that they should think about how they finalize the event. If they don't tell the competitors or anyone who wins until the rag comes outt then they would sell a lot more mags.

That, or start having everyone sign off on a confidentiality agreement, kinda like they have to do on Survivor ect;)

Originally posted by Brawler
Maybe they should just not tell anyone who wins. They could keep everyone in suspense that way. Seems to me that they should think about how they finalize the event. If they don't tell the competitors or anyone who wins until the rag comes outt then they would sell a lot more mags.

What was funny, is some of my friends at 4WPW knew who won before we did, and we were at the event.
I just thought it was funny that FW major sponser was telling everyone who won, before john even knew

Originally posted by morpheus


I disagree with this. Like it or not we are living in the "Information Age" and information that travels at the speed of light at that. FW is old school, if printing a story 3-4 months from now and then dragging the story out 3 months in their rag is how to do business this day in age. The times have changed ... not sure what the answer is but for coverage of events like this, they're just not cutting it ...

Maybe if POR scoops them considerably they'll rethink how they do business ...

- jack

The problem is that it is not just an event they cover, it is an event that they developed and pay for. If POR does do a story on the TTC, I think Fourwheeler will start cracking down on who gets in to the park during the event and make everyone sign an agreement not to publish info about the results. I think that if POR does a story about TTC, Fourwheeler is going to flip.

I thought it was a good idea at first, but I have been doing some thinking. Doing this will only hurt the event we all think is so cool. If it hurts magazine sales by doing a write up here, Fourwheeler won't make as much money off the event, and if they don't make money, they may not continue holding the event.

I dont see a problem, you can find sports scores and highlights all over the net on tape delayed sporting events. Hell, even play by play. Its not like the members of the PBB are a significant portion of FW's readership. If no one signed any type of agreement, how can anyone be too upset if they if they talk about it? They held the event in a public recreation area didn't they? Any Joe Blow could have watched and reported on it.............

Originally posted by morpheus


I disagree with this. Like it or not we are living in the "Information Age" and information that travels at the speed of light at that. FW is old school, if printing a story 3-4 months from now and then dragging the story out 3 months in their rag is how to do business this day in age. The times have changed ... not sure what the answer is but for coverage of events like this, they're just not cutting it ...

Maybe if POR scoops them considerably they'll rethink how they do business ...

- jack

You omitted the most important part of my post. Who paid for it.

I know we are living in the "Information Age" but does that mean an age free of dignity and respect?

Here's a story. A few months ago I was recording the music (I'm a studio musician) for the movie, Spiderman. On one day, a musician brought a friend to the studio so he could observe the whole process of putting the music to the movie. There's a huge movie screen in back of the orchestra and the movie is played while recording the music. The friend went home and got on to some website that talks about movies and proceeded tell all he knows about spiderman. The producer of the movie found out somehow and was absolutely livid. The prducer just dropped a 100 mil on a movie project and some kid was on the 'net telling everybody how his movie ends!

I'm not going to get all high and mighty about this dilemma, truth is, I've allready violated F.W. by posting stuff about ttc.
But a full- blown story, I'm not shure about.


I was told the story breaks out in the September issue ( not the next issue, but the one after it), and runs for two months. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The question I have is this,

How do you sort out who'se playing by what rules?

What I mean is this, you have guys like JR and Mudtruck suggesting certain courses of behaviour, based on a healthy dose of "fair play" or "gentelmanly conduct" or "ethical sense" or whatever.

Others are suggesting that is not required.

Question I have is this...could we really expect Fourwheeler to also always conduct themselves in accordance with some gentelmanly rules of fair play? It was mentioned how much they invest....well, I would submit that they don;t invest one single nickel of that dough out of a sense of commitment to fourwheeling or anything else..it is purely a business venture, and the moment it isn;t profitable enough....poof, it's gone.

Sure, the guys on the ground like Jon Thompson et al are good guys, into the sport. But they don't call the shots...the big wigs at (insert whatever corp ownes tham all) board of directors does.

You think they give a rats ass? I doubt it. The second scrapping Fourwheeler and publishing another import racer mag becomes more profitable...kiss the mag goodbye.

And someoene else was right....we are certainly NOT their target audience.

That said....there's always the "but do we conduct ourselves to the lowest standard, just because others do?" argument.

In fact...ethicaly we could debate it for hours.

Personally, I'm torn...but lean towards publish it....coz last years video SUCKED SOOOOOO BAD and the mag is pretty shoddy these days too, and it takes FOREVER to get the tape.

Originally posted by BillaVista

last years video SUCKED SOOOOOO BAD and the mag is pretty shoddy these days too, and it takes FOREVER to get the tape.

Good news: We were told that this year's video will be more like the 2000 video. Even Four Wheeler acknowledged they made a mistake with last year's video. So say goodbye to the bimbo and her corny interviews.

I never got last years.

Originally posted by JR


You omitted the most important part of my post. Who paid for it.

I know we are living in the "Information Age" but does that mean an age free of dignity and respect?


I don't disagree with you guys that it is FW's event and they paid for it. just that IF they were scooped on their own event that they would most likely change how they dissiminate the info. No, we should not disregard dignity and respect.

- jack

Originally posted by Abba
I never got last years.

Abba, if your address on the TTC roster is correct I will send you mine. And the price is right....FREE! (which is still too much). If you want it.


Hey, what happened to your truck anyway? Did it tip over?

Originally posted by JR



Here's a story. A few months ago I was recording the music (I'm a studio musician) for the movie, Spiderman.


You lucky dog. Any other good movies you worked on recently? Still remember that time you pulled up behind the shop and started playing that thing.

You guys are killin' me! Internet sites have been publishing stories/pictures/results of the TTC before FW has published the results since TTC was invented! :rolleyes: Honestly, it's not a big deal to me, so if you drivers don't want me to write a story, I won't bother putting it together.

Originally posted by JR


Abba, if your address on the TTC roster is correct I will send you mine. And the price is right....FREE! (which is still too much). If you want it.


Hey, what happened to your truck anyway? Did it tip over? Yeah the address is the same and I like the price too. We rolled the Scout on its side and with the winch and the steering we got it back up and kept on going. TTC was two days of wheeling. It was great to be in the top 10. I did a write up on the Binder side. Check it out. Those videos would be appreciated.

Originally posted by Brandon
Okey dokey, scores on top and perspectives and quotes below it, along with my own perspective..

TTC Standings
Here are the results that were announced. The exact times and points will be in a future 4 Wheeler magazine.

MUDPIT
1 Mudtruck44
2 Raptor
3 Stepside
4 Mog Blazer
5 Frog
6 JR
7 Scout
8 Orange Flattie
9 CJ3B
10 Wolf359



well, this is WRONG!!

everyone of the competitors and spectators knows that the red stepside did NOT get 3rd place in the mudpit.

he blew his 1st chance, then requested and got a 2nd chance, and blew this one also.

he should be placed no. 8 and the rest of us, no. 7 and up should move one spot up.

that makes everyone from 7th spot and up gain a point or two(at least), so not only that the mudpit event results should be changed, but also the overall ranking is changing a bit, too.

if i may guess, that should move me to the 4th position overall(or maybe co 4th-5th with Toby), but i doubt if anyone at the mag will change anything now, after they published the results on the board...:(

who is Hill? That is who posted that?

Barry, you're right. There were some other things that happend in the mud pit that were kind of screwy also.
I say we re-do the mud pit you,know get us all back together and do it again only this time for real!! So get the Frog back on the plane ... :flipoff2: :D :flipoff2: :D

There were some mistakes on the scores. The sheet said JR was first in the 'con but realy it was the Raptor.
I wouldn't worry about it. I was told they knew there was mistakes on the sheet, but they would fix them before being published.
It'll just be different mistakes! :D

I have no say in this....but baseball, football, basketball scores get posted on internet sites all at once and play by play, if i were to go to a baseball game and watch the whole game and do a write up on it play by play and give it to someone who didn't get to see the game live or on t.v. .....would i be in the wrong, i don't think so. Maybe this is a stretch, but i don't think it would be wrong for doing a write up, i don't think FW would lose money. Does Sports Illustrated lose money?? There is so many people out there that haven't heard of TTC or Pirate4x4 (mall cruisers, and pavement pounders), that buy FW magazine just to look at the pics and don't even give a crap about the events or writeups, i would say thats where FW gets most of their money. So if its a *courtesy* thing...i don't think they will lose money, and yall said that you didn't sign an agreement about giving a write up before they published one....BUT ULTIMATELY i think it comes down to if the participants in TTC want to give a write up before FW does one, so maybe i just wasted my typing on all this.
OH WELL
I would just like to see something or read something better than what last years tape was b/c it royally sucked, no good footage and the girl was annoying.

Originally posted by 392ssII
I have no say in this....but baseball, football, basketball scores get posted on internet sites all at once and play by play, if i were to go to a baseball game and watch the whole game and do a write up on it play by play and give it to someone who didn't get to see the game live or on t.v. .....would i be in the wrong, i don't think so. Maybe this is a stretch, but i don't think it would be wrong for doing a write up, i don't think FW would lose money. Does Sports Illustrated lose money?? There is so many people out there that haven't heard of TTC or Pirate4x4 (mall cruisers, and pavement pounders), that buy FW magazine just to look at the pics and don't even give a crap about the events or writeups, i would say thats where FW gets most of their money. So if its a *courtesy* thing...i don't think they will lose money, and yall said that you didn't sign an agreement about giving a write up before they published one....BUT ULTIMATELY i think it comes down to if the participants in TTC want to give a write up before FW does one, so maybe i just wasted my typing on all this.
OH WELL
I would just like to see something or read something better than what last years tape was b/c it royally sucked, no good footage and the girl was annoying.


Your baseball analogy is flawed... Imagine instead that Sports Illustrated IVENTED the game, paid to have it at a private location away from the public, wanted exclusive rights to all media coverage, and THEN see if your analogy still works... ;)

well thats fine...it was just my opinion, but you still pay to see the baseball game, and other people that didn't can still get play by play results and it's not like a baseball stadium is a public opening you do have to pay to occupy it...the owner has to make some money.

Four wheeler didn't invent 4 wheelin'...they just organized an event and threw in some other stuff that doesn't really matter in 4 wheelin'...show n' shine??? Anyone can go to HH and run all the same obstacles...of course FW did spice it up a bit!!

So i see it like the owner of the atlanta braves is like FWheeler.
The top ten TTC participants are the atlanta players.
And the people that watch TTC are the fans

And as for media...Lets say Turner sports (ATL) gets full coverage of the game and paid for the coverage...it is still play by play on the internet.

Isn't HH public??

Especially since it didn't cost people to come and watch TTC?...i don't think it would be wrong for other people publishing a write up.

So really it seems the same to me!!

From reading some of your posts DRM...i do agree on ALOT of the same things you do (religion and other stuff), but i don't think it would be wrong to do a write up...unless like i said if the TTC participants said no or strongly disagreed with it.
It was just my opinion and analogy that i came up with in my own world.

Originally posted by 392ssII
I have no say in this....but baseball, football, basketball scores get posted on internet sites all at once and play by play, if i were to go to a baseball game and watch the whole game and do a write up on it play by play and give it to someone who didn't get to see the game live or on t.v. .....would i be in the wrong, i don't think so. Maybe this is a stretch, but i don't think it would be wrong for doing a write up, i don't think FW would lose money. Does Sports Illustrated lose money?? There is so many people out there that haven't heard of TTC or Pirate4x4 (mall cruisers, and pavement pounders), that buy FW magazine just to look at the pics and don't even give a crap about the events or writeups, i would say thats where FW gets most of their money. So if its a *courtesy* thing...i don't think they will lose money, and yall said that you didn't sign an agreement about giving a write up before they published one....BUT ULTIMATELY i think it comes down to if the participants in TTC want to give a write up before FW does one, so maybe i just wasted my typing on all this.
OH WELL
I would just like to see something or read something better than what last years tape was b/c it royally sucked, no good footage and the girl was annoying.

Hmmm evey ball game i have ever watched says "any discreption, reinaction or whater is a copy right imfringment to "the station"