Well the other day I saw a pic here of a guy that made his own bead locks and I thought to my self why cant I design me own for cheap. So I went home took a bunch of measurements, went to work, sat down in front of autocad and designed my own rings. Next step, I made a sample ring out of cardboard to check my measurements and insure that the bolts would clear, every thing checked out perfect. Now the scary part, I dont own my own machine shop so I started getting quotes on what the machining would cost. Well the cheapist quote I got was from a shop that was going to laser cut them out for :eek: $500:eek: :eek: . Rockstompers are only like $300 per set.

So should I stop trying to be a cheap bastard and just put out the cash for the rockstompers or does any one know of a shop that would do this cheap. Any one had any luck building there own bead locks:confused:

I'm in the same boat as you.

I've been looking and looking and looking for someone that can do it. design is sitting here on my desk again this morning after faxing it out yet again for a quote...

Now dont get me wrong, i would love to have some of the rockstompers, but i'd be willing to pay just a bit more to be able to say "I designed them" when someone asks.

But again.. i cant come anywhere close to his $$'s in NM, and i will probably just order from him soon.

i helped calpolystud make beadlocks for the minibaja car. it cost us nothing though. We didn't have a plasma cutter yet so we used a cutting torch to make the steel ring then we made an aluminum ring for the rim and machined off the lip and welded on the ring. We only made one but it worked although it was a bitch to get the tire on because the clearances were so damn tight (quad rims)

If you have access to a machine shop and an optical plasma cutter and a tig welder (and you are good) I would do it otherwise just buy them from rockstomper. $300 a set is dirt cheap.

buy the rockstompers. There is a huge price difference between making 4 and making 400 when you get mahine shop quotes. When you get 400 made they will probably be cheaper than you could buy the steel if you go to the right shop.

HeyBeerMan on this board built his own. Hopefully he'll post on this thread, but he took an existing set of steel wheels, cut down the lip and built rings, cutting with a torch I believe.

I know he used them for quite some time and didn't have a problem with them leaking. However, once you factor in your time, it may not be worth it. If I remember correctly, it took him nearly two weeks of goofing around at it. The Rockstomper kit certainly is dirt-cheap once you factor your time in.
Dion

Originally posted by Weezer
Well the other day I saw a pic here of a guy that made his own bead locks and I thought to my self why cant I design me own for cheap. So I went home took a bunch of measurements, went to work, sat down in front of autocad and designed my own rings. Next step, I made a sample ring out of cardboard to check my measurements and insure that the bolts would clear, every thing checked out perfect. Now the scary part, I dont own my own machine shop so I started getting quotes on what the machining would cost. Well the cheapist quote I got was from a shop that was going to laser cut them out for :eek: $500:eek: :eek: . Rockstompers are only like $300 per set.

So should I stop trying to be a cheap bastard and just put out the cash for the rockstompers or does any one know of a shop that would do this cheap. Any one had any luck building there own bead locks:confused:

are you talking about weld on rings, or actually machining the wheel down to accept a ring?

If you send me a measured drawing, I could probably cut them. It would be pretty cheap depending on what material you wanted to use. I'm not sure what formats the machine will read, but i know where a computer operated plasma cutter is sitting, looking for a way to pay for itself.

Originally posted by BornInAJeep


are you talking about weld on rings, or actually machining the wheel down to accept a ring?

If you send me a measured drawing, I could probably cut them. It would be pretty cheap depending on what material you wanted to use. I'm not sure what formats the machine will read, but i know where a computer operated plasma cutter is sitting, looking for a way to pay for itself.


These would be weld on rings made from 1/4" steel. The next thing to factor in is how much will the shipping be for this much steel. I doubt this will work out well to both our advantages but thanks for the offer. Check and see if the cutter will take acad R14 drawings.

I think in the long run I will just end up buying the rockstompers, they seem to be a high quality product at a great price.

Depending how cheap i can get the steel for, it would be $20-$30 just for the rings(depends how many i cut), plus shipping of course.

20-30 each? or total.

Originally posted by twaldher
20-30 each? or total.

per wheel, just a guess, i'm going to get definate numbers monday morning.

I made these;
laser cut,
don't be scared, let's see them

I think Forward Air is only $35 or so for 100 lbs to most places.

BornInAJeep, you can make me a set :D

seriously your time would have to be like$1 an hour or something for it to be worth while, think about it this way, you could probly work a side job or overtime at regular job and make the money to buy them in less time it would take to make them. and thats assuming you can cut your own circles. 4x8 sheet 1/4 thick is $170 at my local shop, i think you would need 11/2 sheets for 8 rings. that alone pays for the DIY locks.

Call water jet places, a cnc jet can cut them ASAP, usually very cheap...

That water jet stuff is the shit.
wonder what their prices are per hour?
Like to see it work.
seen a carburator that a friend had cut in two pieces,
SLICK!

hell yea! those things are sweet. i've seen 2" plate that was as smooth on the cut edge as it was on the uncut surface. i bet those machines cost stupid bucks.

Originally posted by godwin
i bet those machines cost stupid bucks.

Ask launch_it, he installs and repairs them.

Originally posted by RHINO
4x8 sheet 1/4 thick is $170 at my local shop, i think you would need 11/2 sheets for 8 rings. that alone pays for the DIY locks.

According to my quick math, assuming a 16" circle, you can get 18 rings out of one 4x8 sheet of plate steel.... Am I missing something here? :confused:

And you should find a new place for steel - your local shop is overcharging you.

Originally posted by RHINO
. 4x8 sheet 1/4 thick is $170 at my local shop, i think you would need 11/2 sheets

I priced it all out just recently. It will only cost $150.00 for one sheet of steel and all the bolts and washers 32 bolts per wheel. one sheet will make 10 rings min. that is 5 complete wheels.
I just welded on two rockstompers, $175.00 to my door;)
will order two more later.
And I would not recommend then for street use! should kick ass on the trail, tired of knocking beads off to clean every time I got back from the trail.
Hope this don't make the price go up on the next set to me!

I have a friend that works at a machine shop and I got half price on labor. I made a set of 16.5 beadlocks for my truck, almost identical to Rockstomper. Total cost was $175

no DRM your not missin nothin' my math sucks. and my local shop does angles and tube, they hardly deal with flat sheet at all so i guess they dont get much of a jobber price. but hey 20FT of 120 wall 11/2" is $7from them. and the 12ft of 4" square 3/16 for my sliders i just bought yesterday was $15. so yeah if i wanted sheet i guess i would go downtown.

I got quotes from laser cutting shops in town (no shipping). If they supplied the material and cut them out, it came out to right around what RS charges by the time I figured in all the bolts and stuff. Now it would have been worth it if I could have found 3 or 4 other people who wanted a set as the price went down when the number of rings went up.

Any of you guys that have made your own beadlocks:
Have you thought about tapping the holes in the inner ring for the bolts insted of using the nutserts?

I had two sets made for my friend and I. I had them laser cut and they supplied the steel. I had 20 holes laser cut to 3/8 to accept a 3/8 countersunk bolt and tapered nut. I like the tapered nuts cause the bolt won't back out. No problems with breaking bolts as others seem to have. Anyway it's the same design I just welded the first ring to the lip of the front side of the wheel. Then bolted the other down, checking it 3 times and torquing to 20 foot pounds. Check around some more places cause that is a really high price. Mine cost me to 200 total to make and that included me having to get the countersinking bit and welding wire and nuts and bolts.

ok;
I will see what i can do on the price.
what do the rings look like you are wanting ?
you guys said that you designed your
outer rings?
I used nyloks on mine and they have
done good so far.

Originally posted by Triaged
Any of you guys that have made your own beadlocks:
Have you thought about tapping the holes in the inner ring for the bolts insted of using the nutserts?


Excellent question. I´ve wondered about the same thing. Taking this idea to the next level would be to use longer screws and then spinning on jam nuts...

Another thing I´ve wondered about is the design of the rings. RS and other rings I´ve seen are made of simple flat plate. However, when tightening the rings down, they have a tendancy to go conical due to the unsupported inner edge. Wouldn´t it be better to make the inner ring stepped so that when you tightened the outer ring down, you´d squeeze the tire bead down until you achieved metal-to-metal contact between the inner and outer rings??

Anyone tried this?? What was the height of the step used?? The height would prolly be dependent on the tire used...

There is a good thread on beadlocks on POR, but this idea was only lightly touched upon....

:beer: :beer:

Ok heres my rough drawing of what I need this is a very simple design. No show just go

i can do them for 27 bucks a flange.
thats 216.00 for 8 flanges.
laser cut.

Fabricator

Does the $27 per ring include the 1/4 inch steel or is that just labor.

Originally posted by fabricator
i can do them for 27 bucks a flange.
thats 216.00 for 8 flanges.
laser cut.

Can ya give me a price quote on shipping to ZIP 87106 , buisness address.

Originally posted by billj
Wouldn´t it be better to make the inner ring stepped so that when you tightened the outer ring down, you´d squeeze the tire bead down until you achieved metal-to-metal contact between the inner and outer rings??

Anyone tried this?? What was the height of the step used?? The height would prolly be dependent on the tire used...



Exactly - the tire bead thickness varies WIDELY, so you really can't build a one-size-fits-all step up on the rings....

Originally posted by DRM


Exactly - the tire bead thickness varies WIDELY, so you really can't build a one-size-fits-all step up on the rings....

Correct, but you could make a seperate smaller diameter third ring to sandwich between the inner and outer rings and could vary its thickness depending on the bead width...

In any event, there prolly would be a certain PERCENTAGE of squeeze, independent of the bead thickness. It seems that this could be worked out by measuring a few existing set-ups. And since most people don´t make big radical tire size changes and still keep the same rims, I think that a stepped inner ring or third ring configuration would be a better long-term solution. No ring warping, no loosening bolts...

Anyone know the bead thickness of a 35" SX?? I had a fawking brain fart when i got mine and didn´t take the opportunity to measure it...:mad: :p

Ho much squeeze do you guys usually see when clamping down on the bead?? 30%?? 50%??

Anyone taken befroe / after measurements??

:beer: :beer:

But that extra ring adds more weight... and how would you center than ring - weld it to one of the other ones?

Originally posted by DRM
But that extra ring adds more weight... and how would you center than ring - weld it to one of the other ones?


Make this third ring out of aluminum, it sees no stress...

Centering would be accomplished by the bolts themselves. Or if one wished to be anal about it, a couple spring pins could do the centering job...

:beer: :beer:

Originally posted by billj



Make this third ring out of aluminum, it sees no stress...

Centering would be accomplished by the bolts themselves. Or if one wished to be anal about it, a couple spring pins could do the centering job...

:beer: :beer:

And cutting a couple of sets of varying thickness aluminum rings is a "low buck" option in what country? ;)

Originally posted by DRM


And cutting a couple of sets of varying thickness aluminum rings is a "low buck" option in what country? ;)


Ah, so the idea is "low buck"?!?!?!? Guess I shoulda read the title of the thread...;)

In any event, "low buck" depends on your connections and what you do for a living...:flipoff2: :D :flipoff2: :D

Seriously, cost notwithstanding, I´m sure the third ring WOULD be a better design. Personally, when I´m out in the middle of East Bum-Fawk, I don´t want to be worried about the failure of my "low buck" beadlocks... There´s enough other shite to go wrong...:p

:beer: :beer:

ok.. stupid question regarding the 3rd ring.

What about washers to space the outer ring out but still give enough clamping force to get the job done?

light and cheap

Originally posted by twaldher
ok.. stupid question regarding the 3rd ring.

What about washers to space the outer ring out but still give enough clamping force to get the job done?

light and cheap

Prolly work... I´d only be a little worried about flex loading (fatigue failure) of the bolts due to the reduced contact surface of the washers...



:beer: :beer:

Originally posted by twaldher
ok.. stupid question regarding the 3rd ring.

What about washers to space the outer ring out but still give enough clamping force to get the job done?

light and cheap


As above......

But your idea would be a GREAT way to trial-and-error for the optimum solid ring thickness!!;)

:beer: :beer:

Yes.. but.. the ring will subject the bolts to a clamping force more than a sheer force. So run a Grade 8 or better bolt, 3/8", w/ Grade 8 or better washers, and a Grade C Unitorque lock nut. What would be the big deal? At that point you could lock them down at 80ft/lbs and not care.

i built my own locks, much like rock stompers. i used 3/16 plate and 36 bolts. but i do have a laser at work. we have been putting a B 36 fan belt on the inside edge of the locks it prevents them from coneing and keeps the mud and dirt out, simple and cheap. my total cost for the locks was 0 thats right not a dime, got lucky on some scrap plate and the lazer operator owed me a favor. mike

The problem is not the total torque - only 10 -20ft/lbs is required, the problem most are trying to solve is the unequal torque values due to the fact the bolt never bottoms out against anything but the rubber bead, this combined with the coning of the outer ring allow the bolts to be loaded unevenly from one side of the head to the other - resulting in the heads popping off... After they are subject to some number of fatigue cycles. The thicker outer rings limit this effect but even at 1/4" thickness there is still a noticable coning effect, the solution is to make an mid-ring as described above that matches the specific tire you plan to use or live with the coning effect and check the torques from time to time with that problem in mind.

Matt

The 27 bucks per flange is for the
flange. It includes the steel,
I won't ship the slug, it goes in the dumpster.
will ship anywhere in the U.S.
for 25 bucks for a limited time only, cause i
am sure it will cost more to ship.

Made my own, and rattlesnakes love them. $45 each

Originally posted by Geargoyle
Made my own, and rattlesnakes love them. $45 each

:confused:

I'm a better fabricator than a computer user if I can figure out how to post a picture I will. But there made out of 4130 tubing and there very labor intensive, 24 through bolts with stover lock nuts.

Originally posted by wanderingwillys
The problem is not the total torque - only 10 -20ft/lbs is required, the problem most are trying to solve is the unequal torque values due to the fact the bolt never bottoms out against anything but the rubber bead, this combined with the coning of the outer ring allow the bolts to be loaded unevenly from one side of the head to the other - resulting in the heads popping off... After they are subject to some number of fatigue cycles. The thicker outer rings limit this effect but even at 1/4" thickness there is still a noticable coning effect, the solution is to make an mid-ring as described above that matches the specific tire you plan to use or live with the coning effect and check the torques from time to time with that problem in mind.

Matt

Thats the reason why I said washers though instead of a 3rd smaller ring in the middle. why wouldn't that work?

E mail me the pic and I will post it. You cant post pics till you get your red star

Heres Geargoyles pic

Originally posted by twaldher


Thats the reason why I said washers though instead of a 3rd smaller ring in the middle. why wouldn't that work?

I think the concern was the unsupported span between the washer supported areas; the bead is forcing the outer edge of the ring up and if you only support the area 1/4" or so to each side of the bolt holes you will have a wave pattern appearing in the ring as the unsupported zones between the bolts will still cone downward - you have solved the unequal torque problem (bolt to bolt, not across the head of the bolt) but the coning issues remains - the only way to deal with it would be to have a full width ring that is in contact with the entire outer ring, just my 2cts

Matt

Yeah.. but if you used Scott's 32 bolt ring, there isn't that much space between bolts. Hmm... hey Scott! Try the washer idea and tell us what happens. :D ;)

I guess some of you guys want to completely ignore the fan belt method to virtually eliminate the cone-ing problem as well as equalizing the load on the bolts...

Why don't you guys just get the new DIY kits from Rock Equip. or Bent and Twisted? the things are so cheap for what they are. I've never seen a set leak air and the damn things would be a really hard to fawk up.
here's an excerpt of some info I just got!

"The new rings are three pieces, each is .250 flat and are laser cut.

outer ring laps over bead on tire.
middle ring welds to outter ring and centers tire. Also makes the outer ring 1/2" thick. holly fawk....

inner ring welds to wheel.

16 bolt ring with 3/8 btton head allens and steel nutserts for 89.00 retail per kit"

you wanna talk about pimp parts. these things look sick.


PM or e-mail or call or write a letter to snowball or Tony K for more info.

Originally posted by Sillyneck
Why don't you guys just get the new DIY kits from Rock Equip. or Bent and Twisted?

Because we are cheap :p

So, returning to one of the central questions........

If one were to make a third ring to go between the two conventional rings, one would have to determine the thickness of this ring dependent on the tire he was using in order to get the right amount of squeeze on the bead.

Anyone have an idea of what percentage of squeeze would be required??

:beer: :beer:

the fan belts work like a champ, just use a ''b'' type belt for swampers and other bias plys. you could get away with a ''a'' belt on the lighter radials. and save a shit load of weight and time. mike

There's one serious issue with a metal spacer that everyone seems to be ignoring - plastic vs. elastic deformation of the tire bead. I talked about this earlier; do a search. If you measure a bead's thickness, clamp it in a beadlock, measure it clamped, take it off and measure it again, you'll find the amount of compression when clamped, and you'll also see a small amount of residual deformation that won't come back - ie. the bead has been sqished and will stay there. This becomes worse over time. A rubber band is almost purely elastic, but most other polymeric materials are really elastic-plastic -- they will exhibit some permanent deformation. Ever wonder why you have to keep re-torqueing beadlock rings? It sure isn't because the bolts come loose, otherwise loctite would solve the problem (and it doesn't). As the tire experiences massive clamping forces (say half a million pounds force - sample calculation posted previously) over time you permanently deform the bead and need to continually re-torque the bolts. Unless you plan to make a new metal spacer every few weeks, or just use a massive shim pack, it won't work very well. The beauty of the fan belt isn't just that it prevents coning, but is made of a similar material to the tire carcass, so will deform at a similar rate under the same loading.

if you guyz think about it hard enough, you can go metal to metal and accually cost less than Rockstopmers for two of them, thats what i did. 3/16" thick, 36 3/8" bolts, and metal to metal, and the ring is biult to cover the bolt heads, i would do nothing else:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Originally posted by twaldher
Yeah.. but if you used Scott's 32 bolt ring, there isn't that much space between bolts. Hmm... hey Scott! Try the washer idea and tell us what happens. :D ;)

It's been done on ours before.

I'm still trying to decide if I want to tell y'all what happens when you do that, or if I should let the cheapo guys who just want to rip off my work, figure it out for themselves.

'k, I'll tell ya... the washer thing does work. You have to fine-tune the number of washers to the tires that you're running, and have to make sure that all your washer stacks, all the way around, are the same height, but it does work.

Now I'm gonna take the opportunity to ask (rhetorically) which shops are on the board, telling everybody the tech info on how to copy their stuff, and which will tell you to "just buy it and find out when it gets there" if you ask these questions.

All that said, it doesn't matter if the rings cone down, as long as you have plenty of bolts--I've *never* heard of a single broken bolt with our locks, with the rings coned or not, whatever... if anybody's broken even one bolt on our locks, I want to know about it.

Originally posted by peeJ
if you guyz think about it hard enough, you can go metal to metal and accually cost less than Rockstopmers for two of them, thats what i did. 3/16" thick, 36 3/8" bolts, and metal to metal, and the ring is biult to cover the bolt heads, i would do nothing else:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I am thinking pretty hard, and haven't got a CLUE what you are saying with this post :confused:

Care to explain just what you are talking about here?

Scott - you deserve props man... Always honest and open about your stuff - you are too :cool2:

I would like the bead coned i think,
that way the whole bead has
pressure on it. Not just the outer edge.

Originally posted by peeJ
if you guyz think about it hard enough, you can go metal to metal and accually cost less than Rockstopmers for two of them, thats what i did. 3/16" thick, 36 3/8" bolts, and metal to metal, and the ring is biult to cover the bolt heads, i would do nothing else:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


:confused:

Thanks for clearing up all this up with your most detailed explanation of WTF you´re blabberin´ about...

Rollin´ my eyes right back at ya...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


:beer:

I normally put two beers on all my posts, like cheers. But in this case, I´ll be drinkin´ alone...:flipoff2: :D :flipoff2: :D

Originally posted by DRM
Scott - you deserve props man... Always honest and open about your stuff - you are too :cool2:

I agree completely. I also agree that the ring coning has no structural effect and may only be an aesthetic issue for some - everyone else's rings do it too, just more obvious on a flat one. Personally, I couldn't care less.

If the rest of you guys work so cheap you can beat Scott's price by much, I'll send you a block of nodular iron and a Dremel tool so you can carve out a couple RC D60's for me. I'll pay twice what you save on Scott's rings. :p

I'll be honest, I have access to a plasma cutter and a nice circle jig that would make cutting out a set of beadlocks about a 30 minute job. What I dread is an effective means of drilling all of those stinkin' bolt holes... 32 holes in 8 rings = 256 holes! :eek:


And that, my friends, is why I haven't built any beadlocks of my own yet :p

Scott Rockstomper,

I´ll second that word of praise that you received. It´s really cool of you to leak out your secrets to us cheapos. Maybe not real smart business sense, but cool just the same...:cool: :) ;)

So you say that the washer idea works. Great, but if so then is there no reason to worry about the plastic deformation as elaborated by Lloyd in his above post?? Or do you just remove washers from time to time??

BTW, it proll IS good business sense to share your secretswith this board. After all, while maybe you won´t sell a lot of stuff to the POR regulars after you spill your guts, you prolly wouldn´t sell to them anyways. But now at least they´ll talk good talk about your Company to those that DO buy instead of build... But you prolly already thought about that...;)

:beer: :beer: :beer: (a beer for Lloyd as well:D )

Originally posted by billj
So you say that the washer idea works. Great, but if so then is there no reason to worry about the plastic deformation as elaborated by Lloyd in his above post?? Or do you just remove washers from time to time??

Depends on how close you have the stack-o-washers to the bead thickness of the tire. There's limits to how far the tire will readily deform under relatively lower loads. Basically, the trick is to put the locks together (well, at least one of 'em) with the tire between. Torque 'em to spec, and measure how far the inner diameters of the two rings are apart. Then make the washer stack no thicker than that, and maybe a tad thinner.

Or use a fan belt.

Or do what I personally do: just torque 'em and run 'em--I've run my 44" TSL's at 30psi, without leaks, and without any extraneous junk between the lock rings. Rides like a chuckwagon, but it works. Normally I run 5psi.

Originally posted by DRM
I'll be honest, I have access to a plasma cutter and a nice circle jig that would make cutting out a set of beadlocks about a 30 minute job. What I dread is an effective means of drilling all of those stinkin' bolt holes... 32 holes in 8 rings = 256 holes! :eek:


Now you see why these were outsourced as a CNC project, and we didn't even try to proto a set in house... :)

BTW, there's a reason behind everything done on ours--it's not just tossed together. We rejected all of the following processes:
Laser (holes serrated, edges sharp)
Waterjet (same issues as laser)
Milling (too expensive)
Simple plasma (holes insufficiently round)
...and settled on plasma/punch--it rounds the edges on the ID and OD, and punches (perfectly round) all the holes. That's a big chunk of why they're as expensive as they are.

Also, just for those guys who are too cheapo to buy rings, and would rather make 'em... we sell just rings too. $28 apiece plus shipping, as long as they're not countersunk. That's more expensive.

I gotta add my experience.

I did a pretty detailed article on Scott's Locks on my site (check sig line), and I think there's still an older (less updated) copy here on POR.

I raised some theoretical concerns regarding the coning and bolt loading.

I have now, technically speaking, "beaten the living shit outa them" on road and off....I've done a bunch of pavement miles at 5 psi (not smart) imagine the loading as the tire squirms.

Full throttle tire spinning rock climbs

Results:

0 leaks
0 broken bolts
0 loose bolts

I have also priced a dozen ways to do them......unless you have free acess to all the equipment....ain't no way you can turn them out cheaper. Only reason to do your own is coz you like to do the work.

If all you want is the product....call Rockstomper...can't be beat.

Gets the Billavista anal retentive thumbs up :smokin:

Last point - for you guys making your own....issue is going to be, nut cutting or drilling orpunching them....that's piss easy. It's what you do for bolt retention....nuts work but are a pain in the ass, tapping the holes.....what do you do if you screw one up - either in construction or later (and IMAGINE the labour), nutcerts.....good fawkin luck finding a supplier...Scott...don't let THAT secret out...you need and deserve to keep something back!

Oh, and FWIW, I have an explanation for the dissparity between the theory and the practicein this case.

Wher does most of the theory come from that's applicable to our use of nuts and bolts?

3 sources

Automotive manufacture
Racing
Aerospace.

Theory from the first is mostly irrelevant...it's very cleverly designed for minimum time and cost of assembly (why do you think they invented Torx fasteners....robots!)
The other 2 are dramatically different from us, because weight is so absoloutely critical...you must always use the fewest and smallest possible fasteners, and so that's what the theory is based on. It's correct but not really a concern for us as much. Sure, I'd worry about coning and bolt loading if I was using 8 aluminum bolts to hold a tire ona 200mph race car....but it just hasn;t been a problem for me

Originally posted by BillaVista
nutcerts.....good fawkin luck finding a supplier...Scott...don't let THAT secret out...you need and deserve to keep something back!

Nutserts are hard to find? Since when? Here's where I buy a lot of hardware, havn't any use for nutserts but they sell plenty of them.
http://www.rivetsplus.com/

Has anyone actually tried to place washers over holes between two pieces of 1/4" steel and insert a bolt through them?

Either I am picturing it wrong or that sounds like a royal pain.

Fan belt seems to be the most practical answer.

Originally posted by Johann
Has anyone actually tried to place washers over holes between two pieces of 1/4" steel and insert a bolt through them?
Either I am picturing it wrong or that sounds like a royal pain.
Fan belt seems to be the most practical answer.

You're picturing it right, it's a pain.

Like I (and several others) have said... just bolt 'em up and go. If you're that worried about looks, you shouldn't be shopping for beadlocks in the "how cheap can I get?" threads.

Originally posted by DRM
What I dread is an effective means of drilling all of those stinkin' bolt holes... 32 holes in 8 rings = 256 holes! :eek:
That's simple David - stack and clamp all of the rings together. 32 holes to drill... C'mon it's not THAT hard to drill through 2 inches of steel 32 times. Your 3/8" drill bit will love you.

And... I'm with David here. Why do you guys keep ignoring the fan belt? Steps to reproduce this thread:

Someone bring up the fan belt. Everyone else keep running on like no one offered a beautifully simple solution. State various theories about washers and measuring beads. Repeat as nessecary.

Seems to me that no one has chimed in yet with negative comments about the fan belt trick, so it just might work. 4 fan belts have to be about the same price as over a thousand washers, and even if they're not, it's sure as hell simpler.

Originally posted by Dr. Evil
That's simple David - stack and clamp all of the rings together. 32 holes to drill... C'mon it's not THAT hard to drill through 2 inches of steel 32 times. Your 3/8" drill bit will love you.

The trick is getting them all concentric, evenly spaced, etc., while doing all this setup by hand. And even better, preventing the drill from wandering when it hits a hard spot in that hot rolled (assuming you're going for cheap here) steel plate and going off track... you wouldn't want to have to run only one outer with its perfectly matched inner, in only one location, would you? What a PITA. CNC's looking cheaper by the minute. :)

WRT the fan belt... it's too easy. Gotta overthink this one, there's gotta be a metal on metal solution, it's impossible to have something that doesn't bolt metal on metal, but still actually works. Must apply more engineering..... (only slightly tongue in cheek) :p Just 'cause it works, doesn't mean it... well... oh, wait, it *does* mean it works. D'oh!

BTW, I *still* don't have any plans to put anything between my inner and outer lock rings, on my own truck or otherwise. It's just not necessary--not with 33's, not with 44's, not at 0psi, not at 30psi (do I sound like Dr. Seuss? I feel like him....), not with Boggers, not with BFG's, etc. etc. ad nauseum....

How the hell are you guys centering the tire bead on your locks if you have a flat inner plate for the inner ring? I was just wondering I have never payed attention to it before. Are you guys just using the bolts to center the tire in the lock ? and nobody puts any kind of grip or teeth on the rings.:confused:

What Scott said;
Bolt the damn things down,
I torque them with an air rachet until it stops
and i still haven't broke none.
let it cone in a little.
what is it a mall unit.

Originally posted by kmgmacgood
How the hell are you guys centering the tire bead on your locks if you have a flat inner plate for the inner ring?

The bolts center the outer, the outer centers the tire. It doesn't center on the ID of the bead though, it centers on the large diameter at the shoulder.

and nobody puts any kind of grip or teeth on the rings.:confused:

Why bother? They're unecessary, expensive to machine, and provide a potential air leak path. Do your rims now, have grip or teeth on them?

Im actually enjoying this thread.

Finding a cheaper way seems like a fruitless excercise. And dont' forget usefull items to build and sell that you can make with the cutout centers :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Because of this thread and before this thread when I lock em down im going with Scott.

arndog

My initial reason for designing my own beadlocks wasant just to be cheap it was also the idea of knowing that I built these by my self and didnt have to buy a kit, call it personal satisfaction, but I allways feel better when I can do something on my own. Iam glad this thread expanded like it did, it has given me some good ideas for the future. In the end time is money and I cant build my own for as much as rockstomper sells them so they will get my business. Scott makes a great product, I will just have to save my money for a while.

Originally posted by Weezer
My initial reason for designing my own beadlocks wasant just to be cheap it was also the idea of knowing that I built these by my self and didnt have to buy a kit, call it personal satisfaction, but I allways feel better when I can do something on my own. Iam glad this thread expanded like it did, it has given me some good ideas for the future. In the end time is money and I cant build my own for as much as rockstomper sells them so they will get my business. Scott makes a great product, I will just have to save my money for a while.

EXACTLY!!! I was doing it for the same reasons... Its nice when someone asks you "who did you're cage?" to be able to smile and go "I did". But alas, scotts going to get my $$$ too. there is no way i can make mine for even close to his prices.

Originally posted by sceep
EXACTLY!!! I was doing it for the same reasons... Its nice when someone asks you "who did you're cage?" to be able to smile and go "I did". But alas, scotts going to get my $$$ too. there is no way i can make mine for even close to his prices.

...and now you see why I'm generally OK with spilling the "secrets" to how our stuff is built--'cause just like our tire carrier hinge, even if you're a machinist, there's enough time and material cost involved in swiping our stuff, that it's actually (frequently) cheaper to just buy it, than it is to DIY. If you want to change the design around in the process, DIY is the way to go, 'cause asking us to change our design, would be very very very expensive (read: the cost of design on ours is rolled into the product--add more design cost for a one-off, and you get whacked with the whole design cost) and then, it's worth doing it as a DIY project.

Look at it this way... I broke my transfer case mainshaft a few weeks back. All Pro has a heavy duty one. I could've had one machined locally for around the same cost as All Pro's, or I could've built it myself for a lot less cash (but a ton of time). I bought All Pro's--and Rockstomper and All Pro are probably as close to direct competition as I really see. Bottom line--they had a product that worked, and it's worth more to me to just buy what works, than it is to try and copy it to save $10 on the thing.

Another way to think about it might be like this: Unless you really really really hate your job, if there's less time/money in working a little overtime till you can afford a part, than there is in making it yourself, it's probably worth working a little more (if you're allowed to) to afford it.

The funny thing is... this thread started as a way to see how to make inexpensive copies of Scott's Locks. But it seems to have talked most everyone whose viewed it INTO the rockstomper product. :D

Originally posted by Dr. Evil
The funny thing is... this thread started as a way to see how to make inexpensive copies of Scott's Locks. But it seems to have talked most everyone whose viewed it INTO the rockstomper product. :D

I never intended to try and copy scotts product.. Sitting here runing autocad 8 hrs a day last year i decided i could do it. cheap. after finalizing the design i started shoping around, nationwide, for someone who could pump out a set for me and about 5 others for x-mas presents for the rest of my crew here in town. Then about 7 months ago i came upon scotts rings.... amazed at how close our designs were. And there was no way in hell i could beat (or even come close) to that price.

I still cant figure out how he makes em so cheap.

Maybee if we keep this TTT long enough he'll disclose his vendors too. :flipoff2:

Originally posted by sceep
I still cant figure out how he makes em so cheap.
Maybee if we keep this TTT long enough he'll disclose his vendors too. :flipoff2:

Umm... crossreference "steel" and "denver" in the yellow pages. The shop that does the beadlock rings for us, is in there. I'm not going to give out much more specifics than that. Since I don't think they'll sell you my product, and since I *know* they'll whack ya pretty hard on setup fees for one-offs and small quantities (they have a minimum order of a full sheet of steel and/or $300 in parts just to even bother running the plasma/punch), I'm still relatively safe.

As for how I do 'em so cheap... it's 'cause if I buy in small quantities (less than about 100 rings at a time) I actually lose money on 'em, so the only way I make anything at all, is by buying in large quantities, installing them onto wheels, and/or just a little bit on countersunk lockrings.

If you had my program numbers *and* their contact info, then you might be able to get 'em cheaper... but only in really really really large (I buy a pallet at a time) quantities.

Originally posted by sceep
I still cant figure out how he makes em so cheap.
Maybee if we keep this TTT long enough he'll disclose his vendors too. :flipoff2:

Umm... crossreference "steel" and "denver" in the yellow pages. The shop that does the beadlock rings for us, is in there. I'm not going to give out much more specifics than that. Since I don't think they'll sell you my product, and since I *know* they'll whack ya pretty hard on setup fees for one-offs and small quantities (they have a minimum order of a full sheet of steel and/or $300 in parts just to even bother running the plasma/punch), I'm still relatively safe.

As for how I do 'em so cheap... it's 'cause if I buy in small quantities (less than about 100 rings at a time) I actually lose money on 'em, so the only way I make anything at all, is by buying in large quantities, installing them onto wheels, and/or just a little bit on countersunk lockrings.

If you had my program numbers *and* their contact info, then you might be able to get 'em cheaper... but only in really really really large (I buy a pallet at a time) quantities.

for you guys that want "specials"
i can do it for you. Probably cheaper than
you can get it done.
Including you Scott, of you need something
i can probably take care of ya.

for all you really poor bastards on welfare here is your super cheapo hardware store bead locks

http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=25001

for all you really poor bastards on welfare here is your super cheapo hardware store bead locks


Now thats funny shiite.

Fer heavens sakes....? $70.00 a set ! How low do you want him to go ? $280 for a compleet set of Locks ? Come awwwwwwn ??? That is the BEST price ur ever gonna find ! Good job Scott ! I,ll be ordering me a set real soon !;)


:jeep: __(OIIIIIIIO)__rOkOn:usa:

If you guys would read the thread you would realize that were not just talking about getting the cheapist thing possible were talking about making our own stuff instead of buying somebody elses kit. Isnt that what this board is about, hard core tech not just going to buy some thing off the shelf.

Originally posted by Weezer
If you guys would read the thread .................

I think the problem here is that the title of the thread implies we are looking to do it cheaper.

Hell I'd pay a little bit more just to be able to say that they were my design and build.