Sorry if this question has been beaten to death. I searched and came up with some good info but I still would like more.

I already have the front D44 off of a '77 wagoneer in stock form and not installed in my CJ7.

The question is should I get a rear D44 out of a scout II or should I get a FSJ M20 out of a wagoneer? I am running 35" MTR's and plan to be locked and run 4.56 gears.

WHICH IS STRONGER??

Any information about comparing the two would be great!

Thanks!

Noah :D

You would have to get one piece axles and i think the lowest you can gear a 20 is 4.56, you would kinda have to build this thing.

Dana 44 you can gear whatever and already have the solid one piece axles. i ran a rear 44 on my scout which is a helluva lot heavier than your cj. i ran w/ 35's and was more than fine.
Go with the rear 44!!

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE wrong answer! SJ 20's are already 1 piece axles! and a hell of a lot stronger than the CJ version. Putting them up there with tha D44. 6 in one half dozen in another n my opinion. Either.

4.88s are the M20 limit AFIK.

Biggest difference I have found between the two is the ring and pinion sizes. The M20 R&P is much bigger than a D44.

Originally posted by mike
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE wrong answer! SJ 20's are already 1 piece axles! and a hell of a lot stronger than the CJ version. Putting them up there with tha D44. 6 in one half dozen in another n my opinion. Either.

Thanks for the replies guys. :)

Are the two axles about the same width too? I have heard that the scout axles are 58" wide on the rear. Is the FSJ M20 about the same or is it wider?

How do the tubes compare on each axle? About the same thickness?

Does the M20 hang down lower than the D44?

Thanks!

Noah :D

sorry bout the wrong answer!!! I was thinking about the cj axles, the r&p on the 20 is bigger, but i guess since you are going to be running 35's you really can't go wrong with either one

They are about a draw.

The only thing that makes the SJ M20 weaker than a 44 is the housing. Truss the hell out of it, and it is arguable stronger than a D44. The only other part that is smaller is a 29 spline in the 20, vs the 30 spline in the 44. No REAL difference between the two.

And to think.. a year ago I was heckled for going to the SJ M20. now many people are!

Originally posted by twaldher


And to think.. a year ago I was heckled for going to the SJ M20. now many people are!


I never heckled you .. well at least about that :D :flipoff2:

I'll agree with everyone else that it pretty much comes out to a wash in the end.

One of the reasons that I chose the D44 in my rig was because of the shaft length. Both driver and passenger sides are the same on a SII, so assuming you snap a shaft, you only need one spare to be covered for both sides. Less crap to carry.

When it comes down to it, just get whatever is cheaper :D

Thanks for the info guys!

I guess it will come down to which ever I find first. And I think I have a lead on a SII D44 rear already!:D

Are the shafts different legnths on the M20?

Hodie :p

One shaft is about.. ohh... 1.5" longer than the other. but the pinion is still centered. At least thats the way it is on a SJ M20

One other thing you might want to consider is bolt pattern. The SJ axle will be 6 on 5.5 same as your front (unless you've converted it) and the scout will be 5 on 5.5 same as stock Jeep axles. Don't know what you have for wheels or if you're getting new ones, but since everything else is basically a wash, this might make a difference.

Originally posted by Grandpa Jeep
One other thing you might want to consider is bolt pattern. The SJ axle will be 6 on 5.5 same as your front (unless you've converted it) and the scout will be 5 on 5.5 same as stock Jeep axles. Don't know what you have for wheels or if you're getting new ones, but since everything else is basically a wash, this might make a difference.

I've thought some about bolt pattern too. I have the steel wheels now with the stock CJ axles with the 5 on 5.5.

I have not converted the front D44 to 5 on 5.5 yet. So if I bought the waggy M20 I would have to get new wheels with the 6 lug pattern.

If I got the SII D44 rear I would be converting the front D44 to 5 on 5.5.

The question would be, which is more expensive to do? Getting 6 lug wheels or converting the front waggy D44 to 5 lug?

I know I could get some wheels for pretty cheap too since I am going to run steel wheels.

Probably another draw!! LOL:D

Hodie :p

Converting the front will be the more expensive option, I think. Unless you run all used parts or have a machine shop.

Originally posted by ho7


I've thought some about bolt pattern too. I have the steel wheels now with the stock CJ axles with the 5 on 5.5.

I have not converted the front D44 to 5 on 5.5 yet. So if I bought the waggy M20 I would have to get new wheels with the 6 lug pattern.

If I got the SII D44 rear I would be converting the front D44 to 5 on 5.5.

The question would be, which is more expensive to do? Getting 6 lug wheels or converting the front waggy D44 to 5 lug?

I know I could get some wheels for pretty cheap too since I am going to run steel wheels.

Probably another draw!! LOL:D

Hodie :p


Well.. if you get cheap black steel wheels.. it'll only cost you around $180 or so for 5.

On converting a D44 to 5x5.5, is there an internal hub'd outer thats available for a D44? You wouldn't want to swap on that external hub crap now. ;)

Originally posted by twaldher
On converting a D44 to 5x5.5, is there an internal hub'd outer thats available for a D44? You wouldn't want to swap on that external hub crap now. ;)

You use Ford wheel bearing hubs for this conversion which use an internal hub. You can even use the same lockouts that are on the 6 on 5.5 wheel hubs. The only D44 that uses an external hub is a Scout 44. Do a search as the recipe has been covered in depth many times.

Originally posted by cmegoup


You use Ford wheel bearing hubs for this conversion which use an internal hub. You can even use the same lockouts that are on the 6 on 5.5 wheel hubs. The only D44 that uses an external hub is a Scout 44. Do a search as the recipe has been covered in depth many times.

hehe... it was more of a rhetorical question than anything. ;)

F150 rotors on a waggy front = 5 on 5.5"

I would go with the 6 lug

I'm thinking the FSJ M20 will be the easier way to go. I would just have to get new wheels. It will all depend on what I can get and for how much. I spent 75 bucks on my front D44 out of the junk yard.

The search for a rear begins.......

If anybody has any more comments that would be great!

We have compared the two axles so far:

SII Dana 44 Rear
-30 spline shafts
-same length axle shafts
-slightly smaller R&P than the M20
-stronger housing????
-stronger axle tubes????
-width about 58"

Full Size Jeep M20 rear
-29 spline shafts
-different length axle shafts
-bigger R & P than the D44
-weaker housing???? not sure
-weaker axle tubes???? not sure
-width about 58.5"????

I'm not totally sure about some of these stats.

Anything else to add to this guys?

Thanks!

Hodie :D

How about you just find a rear Dana 44 from a 86 or newer Waggy? Sorry but just because the R&P are bigger on the M20 does NOT make it stronger or as strong as the Dana 44. Weaker housing, weaker tubes, less gear and locker options, smaller shaft dia., plus you can get a 6-lug Dana 44 out of a Honda Passport with disc brakes if you want. I had a M20 and they suck period, don't waste your money on one. Hell I'd swap a Ford 9" rear and use Chevy flat top knuckles with outer Ford brake parts to get a 5 x 5.5 lug pattern before I'd waste money on buying the M20 then have to upgrade it too!

As for the strength of the housing and the tubes: I don't know if the two are any different. Not much if any. I was trying to get the specs on them both as far as tube thickness and housing strength. Nobody has come up with a definate answer for these parts of the full size jeep M20.

Anybody know the housing thickness compared to the D44?

Hodie :D

I'm pretty sure the AMC20 has 1/4" thick tubes. The FSJ version is the same thickness as the CJ, just bigger diameter. I saw a comparison or a link to it on this BB, either Jeep or General forum.