Help me spend money

[the_experience3006]

Ok, I know it's been done time and time again and I have read the threads, but here's the deal. I need tools for school (auto tech/mech) and am pulling my hair out over this decision as it really is a lifelong sort of thing. I don't have the space (or the desire) to write out what each company is offering for their package price, but I can give some rough estimates. This is what I've narrowed it down to.

Snap-On

The set that they put together is *similar* to 9200AGSO Master Tech Starter Kit and runs about $1600. In exchange for some of the specific tools our instructor would like for us to have we miss out on some others. For example...I would need to order a set of flare nut wrenches for an additional $50 (?). The killer for me is that the set does not come with deep sockets. To get the set of deep SAE and Metric in both 6 and 12 point would quickly add $300 to the price.

So where do I sit with this one? Well...I like the warranty and truck service and the tools are second to none. I will never EVER again see prices discounted this low. Unfortunately I can't get as many tools for the dollar as I could with the other companies.


Crapsman

The Crapsman sets come with two prices, ~$1400 for a generic standard Crapman set and the student package they put together with Crapsman Pro tools for ~$1900.

You get a lot of tools for the price. Period. I mean they go so far as to include a Fluke 110 in the package as opposed to some off brand digital multimeter. They are also supplied by a local (atleast until school is done) retailer.

So where do I stand here? Well...they have a nice, fat set of tools. Many of the mechanics I have talked to have said that a lifetime warranty is a lifetime warranty and they use Crapsman Pro for most of their stuff and save Snap-On for the specialty type stuff. Here are my hang ups. You are supposed to be able to go to the retailer (Fastenal for those that are interested) and get your warranty replacements. Unfortunately they stock very little of the Pro stuff there. I am not bringing in a Craftsman Pro ratchet and walking out with a regular ratchet. That's just not cool. Also, much of what is in the professional set is the same as the regular set. There just isn't a "pro" version. I have had decent luck with my Craftsman stuff, but I'm not on my original...or second...or third even ratchet in any of the sizes. My $30 Wal-Mart Stanley ratchet is my go-to at home because I actually like it better. The closest Sears that is worth half a shit is 60 miles away. That may change when I find employment, but is a consideration for now.



S-K

The S-K set is actually broken down next to our assigned tool list. They make no effort to disguise things with their own part numbers. What we need for the basic and extended recommended kit is included as well as some additional stuff (if we need 9-20mm it might come with 8-22mm for example). I also have really liked what few S-K tools I have used.

This is the set I'm leaning towards. The tools-per-buck ratio is better than anyone else and just like everyone else they carry a lifetime warranty. But how good is the warranty? I've heard people complain before. There ARE local S-K dealers so I've got that going for me. I also have a number I can call to get a UPS call-tag and have it replaced. Unfortunately this might take a week or more. Does anyone have experience with warranties being denied after sending stuff in? I like the fact that you get a whole new tool, not just a re-kit.

My other hold up is that not all of the tools are S-K branded. It comes with an assortment of Lisle, Channelock, Vise-Grip, OTC, etc tools. Those are all well known names and I've used products by all those companies in the past with much success, but is it worth the warranty hassle or the premium price? The tools that are branded by other companies are limited to stuff like a bearing packer, tape measure, etc, not the core products.


So...anyone with some experience (especially with the S-K warranty thing) want to throw me a bone here? Thanks in advance.

[rusmannx]

cornwell

[the_experience3006]

Unfortunately Cornwell wasn't even an option. I live way up in the north country where Cornwell didn't feel the need to send a rep. Without a rep I can't get student prices and without student prices I just plain can't get the tools. For what it's worth, I've never seen someone up here using Cornwell professionally. I've attempted to contact a dealer through their site to see what he has to say, but for now Cornwell just isn't an option.

[odin544]

I think if I were going to be a mechanic for a living I would want better tools than craftman. I've had problems getting broken tools replaced. and just like you said, with a different tool. instead of replacing it with a brand new tool they give you a refurbished tool. complete BS. I would go snapon or mac. dont get me wrong craftsman are great for a home mechanic. just not up to par in my opinion. and like you said. its a lifelong investment.

[the_experience3006]

The Mac set was OK and on par price/piecewise with the Snap-On stuff, but the dealer is from a long ways away and was kind of an ass. I know I'm paying for tools, but with that I expect a certain amount of customer service as well. This guy didn't seem to want to sell me his product. I also broke one of their display splined ratcheting wrenches leaving me less than impressed. :D

[odin544]

yeah that is a big factor in my book to. the snap on guy comes to you and I'm sure your aware of the CS you would get at sears. your just another joe blow on the street. get the snap on and dont look back.

[bronco75]

I started with SK and other off branded tools back when I went to tech school back in 1978. Most of those tools are still around somewhere in my shop or tool box. Now the primary tools are Snap On and Mac. I prefer Snap On be cause I have always had better Tool Men from Snap On. In all the years I have done this I have always had a Snap On dealer. About 75% of the time I have had a Mac dealer. I also have had 2 Matco dealer, 1 Cornwell, 1 Service Tool and most of these all lasted less than a year in the business.
My tool box is filled with many brands of tools and even some no name or home built. I usually tell young techs to start with a cheaper basic set of tools and build up from there once they have decided that this is the profession you really want. I know that both Snap On and Mac offer some really good prices to the school programs now so if this is the case go good to start. If not go basic till you are sure there is alot of money to be spent on tools and its a never ending expense.

[cgwfab]

SK?, off brand? dunno about that. i have broken two of the snap on 3/4 drive heads (using the factory long handle, no cheater) in the past year. my SK is a little bent (use a cheater all the time) but has never slipped or broken. Williams is also a good brand.

as far as warranty, i have never had a problem exhanging tools at the local dealer.

[Wicked_S10]

I personally will not buy craftsman products anymore, unless it is a last resort. There was a day when they were a very good tool for the money, but that is really no longer the case. IMO most of their stuff is overpriced now for its quality. Their standard version tools are crap. The few PRO tools I have of theirs, are fairly nice, but even if buying all their pro line, their CS now a days makes it not worth it. I have some craftsman tools that my dad left me, still working flawlessly. I have a handfull of ratchets, breaker bars and socket adapters on the floor of my truck waiting to go into sears, all of them their newer tools, all used in stock form, and all of them in one broken condition or another.

I have probably 10-12K in hand tools from various manufacturers, and I have broken one of everyones. I don't really think that buying one "kit" from any one manufacturer would be the way I would go. Maybe if you got the least expensive option, and eventually could replace the tools that you felt weren't up to par with what you do, but I think there are certain tools that are better from one manufacturer than another.

Believe it or not, I use a cheap ass set of "channel lock" brand sockets and ratchets for most jobs. I bought them at Sams club about 5 years ago to be a cheap set to carry in the ORV, but the ratchets are much smoother than almost anything else I have, and believe it or not, I have not broken one of their tools except the screwdriver/bit driver, and I only broke that because I was using it for a pin punch.

The tool Nazis will tell you to go for snap on or other high $$$ options, but those stupid channel lock ratchets (made by stanely, BTW) are holding up better than my snap on stuff. On the other hand, I love the snap on open ends I have with the little grip teeth in them, they out perform every open end I have ever used. It is all about finding what works best for you, not what is the highest end brands.

Good luck, whatever you decide to go with.

Later,
Jason

[rock mafia]

I buy 90% of my tools from ebay. Spend a little time, and you can save alot of $$$$. I have also seen alot of good deals on craigslist. Best thing is to find someone getting out of the bus. and buy their whole box full of tools.

Just picked up a near new mac composit 3/8 impact for $53.

[FullsizeYota]

It really comes down to your rep/store and customer service. your nothing without your tools and your tools are worth nothing without service.. ask me how i know. i sell power tools all day long.

craftsman has some ok stuff.. to be honest i think the only thing i have broked were extentions and a ratchet or two.. maybe a sparkplug socket when i was trying to take off lug nuts with a impact.:homer: over all i think they make a decent product but like you said, you get refurb tools which i think is bull shit.

i bought some stanley ratchet/socket sets about 8-9 years ago.. thats been my favorite socket set hands down. i have litterally jumped on my 3/8 ratchet and put a 3' cheater pipe on it. it's one tough sucker and it's as tight today as it was the day i bought it. :grinpimp:

Snap on/mac/cornhole.. whatever since they dont have a store you could run to first thing in the morning, you'd better have a good, ambitous rep. one that stays on top of his inventory. i beleive thats why "truck" tools cost so much.. er at least one reason. your paying for service.

i have a mix of tools but i only use my stuff as a hobby. if it breaks that means i clean up the shop :eek:if i had to depend on them to make money everday, i think it's deffinatly worth it to deal with a rep/truck type company.

[jmhinescj]

first up, I'm not a pro by any means...In the past Iv'e always bought craftsman tools...mainly for convenience but also cause they seemed like good tools, but these last few years it seems like theyv'e been on a steady decline. I sure wouldn't want to invest as much money as you are about to invest on craftsman.

most of the tools I have that aren't craftsman are Snapon...all of them bought on ebay. Iv'e never had one fail me. If I was going to be in it for a while that's the direction I would go.

It's probably pretty easy for a guy that's been turing wrenches for years to decide on a line based on the experience that he gains as he goes along...for a guy starting out I imagine it can be pretty intimidating...let us know what you settle on and how it works out.

[THachiya]

... but those stupid channel lock ratchets (made by stanely, BTW) are holding up better than my snap on stuff.

Stanley also makes MAC tools. :)

[rock mafia]

Stanley also makes MAC tools. :)

Stanley (same as husky from HD) are made in china. Older ones were made in USA, and were much better quality. Mac is made in USA.

Stanley also owns Proto and blackhawk.

[FullsizeYota]

Stanley also owns Proto and blackhawk.

i think i bought some blackhawk snap ring pliers.. they are the best snap ring pliers i have ever owned but thats not saying much.... i think i have only owned 2 pair :laughing:

[Travis Waldher]

I'de get the snap-on set.

Go to sears and pick up tube wrenches.

Go to HF and pick up deep well sockets, or go to lowes/HD and get their line.

The tube wrenches will probably stand teh test of time. While HF's sockets may not, they probably are on par with Sears anymore, so go get their upper end set. Bring a couple nuts/bolts to get a feel of how well they grab first to ease your mind.

Worst case, you are replacing the deep wells sometime well after school, and even then you can replace them with snap-on one at a time. You're not going to regularly use 1/2 or more of your deep wells anyway.

[stock 87]

If you plan on wrenching for a living buy the Snap on deal you'll never regret it.
Don't worry about 12 point sockets, when was the last time you needed a 12 point? All they do is f things up.
Only buy 1/2" drive deep impact sockets. Don't worry about shallow impact sockets. Waste of money.
$50 for a set of line wrenches, That's a no brain-er, were do I sign up?

If you don't like the Idea of spending money on tools I'd find another line of work because this is just the beginning.

Good luck Happy wrenching.

jim

[eschoendorff]

I used to love SK... until I started buying more of it recently. New SK tools are very inconsistent. They seem to have some serious issues with QC. Craftsman Pro tools (specifically their wrenches) are very close to their Matco counterparts. If I were you, I would piece out my set with the best from each manufcturer. For example: Craftsman Pro wrenches and sockets (believe it or not my small Cman sockets do not round out as easily as my SK!), Snap On screwdrivers, ratchets and flare wrenches, Proto hammers and pullers, Snap On or OTC torx sockets.... you get teh idea.

Or, you could just buy the Snap on package. It might be easier. But Snap On is the one company that I know of that has not let their quality drop in recent years.....

[Travis Waldher]

when was the last time you needed a 12 point?

About half the time I crawl under a Jeep or any newer chrysler product.

[the_experience3006]

About half the time I crawl under a Jeep or any newer chrysler product.

That's the truth. Half of our donated vehicles in the shop are Chrysler products. Going to work for a Chrysler dealership doing warranty work on those things would be a last resort. :barf:

I really appreciate all the replies. As someone so keenly pointed out...for someone that has been in the business for a long time this decision might be a no brainer, but just starting out it certainly is intimidating, especially when the tools will be my means to a paycheck.

I'm glad to hear others posting up about how damn good their Stanley ratchets and other tools have been to them. It makes me feel warm and fuzzy knowing that that's my go-to tool at home.

Several people have suggested mixing and matching. This is something I certainly will look into. The problem is that we get SUCH a deep discount over retail when we buy their package. When was the last time anyone else saw 62% off Snap-On? I can't even beat that on eBay. I also know that I have a lifetime of buying tools ahead of me, but I DO need a basic set for now . Unfortunately my pockets are not bottomless. I'd like to stick to $2000 and less is better for this year. There will be another tool sale next year and I will be eligible then. I know a roll cab is in the works for next year. For this year I'm using an absolute pile of shit $80 clearance Crapsman box...no ball bearings...external lock bars....you get the idea. :grinpimp:

I'm still wrestling with the Snap-On versus S-K thing. I know Snap-On is a better tool. I know I will never see these prices again. I know they are one of the most highly regarded tools out there and someday I'd like to end up with a box full of them, but damn...the temptation is still there to get ALL the tools I will (for the next 2 years anyway) from S-K at a lower price.

Tomorrow I'm going to do some more asking around. I will see if some of the second years will let use some of their stuff to get a feel for it and see how they feel. I will also call the reps and see what I can do about mixing and matching. Snap On wrenches, screwdrivers, sockets, and ratchets would be nice, but S-K snap ring pliers would probably suffice. I guess I will put together a list and jumble some numbers around and go from there.

Thanks for all the help thus far.

[dimichele]

I came across a retired guy selling his tools on ebay $50,000 worth for $5,000, and he was local. I didn't even have close to that at the time. If your patient I bet you can find a nice score.

I'd probably buy the Snap-on set at the price you listed though. I'd also look for the company with the one with the best customer service.

As far as boxes go you will probablyl get the best deal on a trade in. I'd wait for a deal.

Newer crapstman ratchets won't last you a week. Mine didn't last long and I'm a weekend wrencher. I bought snap-on on ebay to replace them.

My cousin uses knipex cobra pliers insted of flare nut wrenchs for lines and has been in the business for 20 years. $50 is less than I paid for crapsmans though.

[the_experience3006]

I have been looking for local deals, actually. It would seem that the only luck I might have is with a box. People seem to pass on their tools from father to son to daughter to neighbor kid, etc. In the mean time I'm GOING to need tools. The box can come later after I've thoroughly trashed the Crapsman "thing" I have now.

[nissancrawler]

My experience as an aircraft mechanic:

#1. the 12 point comment somebody made...I use them EVERY day.

#2. Craftsman: They were good 4-5 years ago, but are going to shit quickly. I have a set of their professional wrenches though, and other than being 1/4" shorter, are identical to the snap-on ones.

Dad has a 25 year old lifetime warranty $250 tap and die set. Sears will not exchange the broken taps, they will only swap him for an entire non-warrantied, chinese set. How is that lifetime warranty?!

He has a 25 year old broken lifetime warranty torque wrench. They will only exchange him for a one year warranty tool. Once again, how is that lifetime warranty?

If I walk into sears wearing my work shit, and try to exchange a broken tool, they'll deny it due to excessive wear and tear. I just go in normal clothes, and they exchange it, but still.

I broke a screwdriver recently (on a screw no less), and brought it in, and was accused of using it to open paint cans. WTF? I'm an aircraft mechanic, not a house painter

#3. Snap-On: Yes, they're high priced. They're also good tools, and the majority of what I buy anymore. You can buy an auction on ebay of several snap-on tools, take what you want, and resell the rest. I paid $45 for a 1/2" snap-on ratchet, 2 extensions, universal, and 9 oddball sockets. I kept the ratchet, sold everything else separately for $50. You can also go to auctions and farm sales, and sometimes find a box of broken stuff to get warrantied. I paid $3 for a box of tools, and probably got $500 worth of new tools out of the deal.

Warranty: It will vary dealer to dealer. My dealer replaces tools with no questions asked. If she doesn't have the tool, she gives me the closest tool she has as a loaner until the replacement comes in. She stocks ratchet rebuilds, so when my 1/4" ratchet strips out, I just go in the truck, rebuild it, and hand her the bad parts and go on my way.

#4. Mac: They have a few things that are better than Snap-On. (breaker bars come to mind.)

#5. When buying tools, beware of companies rebranding other tools as their own. Mac and snap on both rebadge knipex pliers, for example. The original brand is usually a fair amount cheaper.

Finally, talk to mechanics at local garages that use the same dealers your school does. See how they like them. I used to buy all Mac and no Snap-On, because the rep that came to work was a complete pile of shit. Our hangar moved about 1/4 mile, and we were in a new district. The Snap-On lady is awesome now.

[bigdreamin]

Speaking as someone who used to work on cars everyday for a living:

1. DO NOT BUY SK, they are OK tools but I have some broken ones sitting in my box that I still can not get warrantied, in my area they don't have a truck or a store anywhere close, and you have to send you stuff into the and then they make a decision on whether or not to warranty your tool.

2. Not every thing Snap-on makes is the greatest, all of my ratchets are Matco, there a finer tooth than the snap-on ratchets and have a slimmer head profile and better locking mecanisim for the flex head. However there are some Snap-on tools that are undoubtedly the absolute best money can buy. For instance I will never own another wrench unless it is a flank drive plus, these things actually take the place of line wrenches, they are that good.

3. Know when to buy junk tools and when to spend the money. Believe it or not my craftsman chrome sockets managed to live a long life for the most part when I worked on cars. for all of the SAE and metric 12 pt and 6 pt deep and swallow sockets I'd have $3000 in just sockets if I would have bought Snap-on, I have used Snap-on sockets and Mac and Matco sockets and never noticed a difference. Some tools I even bought from harbor freight like magnet trays, a spark plug socket with long extension. Stuff I know that wouldn't see abuse.

4. If you really like Snap-on wait until you buy a box to get some of the fancier shit, For instance I got my dealer to throw in a few grand worth of tools over the two boxes I bought off him. Things like pry bars and specialty tools. Don't be afraid to negotiate with your dealer, they speak cash trust me.

You will learn over the years what tools are good and which ones blow. Like wise you'll learn which ones are worth the money and which ones aren't.

As far as your specific situation now post up the list as you would and I'm sure the PBB as a collective whole can give you recommendations. I wouldn't buy the entire Snap-on set, however I'm sure there things on that list I wouldn't want to be anything but Snap-on.

[Hackfabricaton]

I've had no problems with Craftsman hand tools. So if it was my decision, it would be to buy the Craftsman set. Sounds like a lot of bang for the buck, and if this career choice doesn't work out, then you've got a real nice set of home tools at a discount.

I'd also consider some of the suggestions and start looking on CraigsList and eBay for deals. Also, check out the pawn shops. Lots of good deals there too.

The item that is gonna cost you a boat load of cash is the storage units. There is a huge difference between a SnapOn and a Craftsman tool chest. If you're gonna drag your tools around, you want the heaviest duty combo you can get. If you're gonna load up on heavy stuff, you want sturdy ball bearing drawers.

Good luck with your schooling.

[the_experience3006]

Ok, here is the Snap-On set as packaged for us in the program.

Final Cost with tax and freight: $1579.70
*it should be noted that that is without some of the flare wrenches I would want or deepwell sockets.

[carpal tunnel]
114ATMP Gen Service set, 6 pt, 14 pcs. in tray $74.65
1650 16" Prybar $18.00
206AFSA 6 pt flex socket set $74.43
212FMY Socket set, shallow metric, 8-19mm 12 pt. $46.44
222AFSP Gen Service set, 6 pt, 22 pcs. $175.82
317MSPC Ext. Set $174.65
388BCP Pliers $16.87
96BCP Pliers $13.36
GSAF1E Adapter $7.58
A2A Adapter, 3/8x1/2 $4.39
AW1015DK Hex wrench set $15.75
AWM110DK Hex wrench set $15.86
B1356E Brake retainer spring tool $10.17
B3404B Adjuster, Bendix style brakes $8.51
BP16B Ball peen, 16 oz. $9.77
BP8B Ball peen, 8 oz. $8.37
BT11 Brake spring tool, Bendix $9.90
BTC8A Batterty terminal cleaner $4.21
AWP120 Pliers $13.26
CHN526 Pliers, 6" wire cutting combo slip joint $5.02
CSA12C Scraper $20.67
CT4G Circuit tester, 6v &12v $20.67
ECF925 Flashlight, LED spot, compact $20.02
FB335 Feeler gauge $4.70
FS12B Flexocket $12.33
GA295 Mirror, round, 2.25 diameter $4.25
GA296 Angled Air Chuck $1.82
HBPT16 16oz soft faced hammre $19.60
HS18A Hacksaw $16.77
JT13A Blowgun $6.35
KRA255A Box, Metal $13.13
OEX34B Combo wrench, 1 1/16" $25.20
OEX36B Combo wrench, 1 1/8" $30.24
OEX40B Combo wrench, 1 1/4" $33.93
OEX711B Combo wrench set, 11 pcs. $124.56
OEXM80B Combo wrench, 8mm $8.60
OEXM90B Combo wrench, 9mm $8.60
OEXM710B Combo wrench set, metric $97.20
PPC710A Punch and chisel set $59.26
RXFS1214B Flare nut wrench, 3/8-7/16 $9.18
RXFS1618B Flare nut wrench, 1/2-9/16 $11.61
S8 Universal joint, 2 11/16" $16.92
SGDX80BO Orange 8pc screwdriver set $44.37
SDD214 Screwdriver, flat tip, spark test, .025 tip, 5 1/8" $4.12
SGDMRC103A Ratchet screwdriver $35.91
SDMT20D Torx bit $2.11
SDMT25D Torx bit, $2.11
SDMT30D Torx bit, $2.11
SDMT40D Torx bit $2.11
SX2 2" Extension $6.08
SGT4 Handle driver $6.08
TW401 Socket, shallow 1 1/4" 6 pt. $11.25
VGP12107 Plier w/ cutter $8.29
YA131 gauge, pressure 10-50psi $8.29
YASG153 12' tape $3.67
PHP1 Pliers, hose clamp, swivel jaw $12.19
FS081 Socket, shallow, 1/4" 6 pt $3.85
SFS081 Socket, deep, 1/4" 6 pt $5.40
OEX8B Combo wrench, 1/4" $8.26
OEX10B Combo wrench, 5/16" $8.26
OEX11B Combo wrench, 11/32", $8.26
YA339 Scribe, straight/90* $2.68
SGDP122A Screwdriver $8.35
SGDP4120A Screwdriver $8.12
RXFS2022B Flare wrench, 5/8-11/16 $13.95
[/carpal tunnel]

In addition to what is listed I would want:
1. metric flare wrenches
2. deep well sockets
3. brass drift assortment
4. BFH


Beyond that I think I could probably survive. Input? Retail on that set I listed is ~$3977.

*edit*
9200AGSO Master tech starter set $1641.11
SEPAUTOADD Automotive add-on set $346.33

The pictures in the catalog look nice, but the fine print says they are a "representation" and nowhere can I find an actual list of what comes in those particular kits.

[WTF?]

If i were in your shoes i'd consider buying the Craftsman Pro set and pick up a set of S/O ratchets and screw drivers as money permits/ you figure out what you want. I too like the finer Matco ratcheting ability over a snappy/ mac, but all 3 are waaaay nicer than the craftsman std duty ratchets.


Also on a semi related tangent; I dunno WTF you fawkers riding sack on the Stanley company are talking about; i like my 3/8 stanley ratchet all right but the 1/4 inch blows donkey dick; it won't 'stay in gear', every one i touch in the store is the same way. I use a northern tool 1/4 ratchet and love it.

[the_experience3006]

Also on a semi related tangent; I dunno WTF you fawkers riding sack on the Stanley company are talking about; i like my 3/8 stanley ratchet all right but the 1/4 inch blows donkey dick; it won't 'stay in gear', every one i touch in the store is the same way. I use a northern tool 1/4 ratchet and love it.

I'm one of those guys riding Stanley's sack, but I have no idea about the quality of the 1/4 inch drive stuff cause I don't think I have ever used a 1/4 inch drive. made by anyone. :flipoff2:

[BumpyDodge]

I bought the Snap-on "starter set" when I was taking some automotive classes almost 20 years ago. 51% off. I don't regret it a bit. Usually the industrial rep will allow a few substitutions if you ask nicely (e.g. swap 6 pt sockets for 12 pt, pick your screwdriver handle color, add/delete a few items). I outgrew the box that the set came in pretty damn fast, but the only way I could get the pricing was as a "package deal" and that included a small top chest. Here's my personal preferences if I was going to do it all over again:

From your set (if you can) I would delete:
*The hex keys. You'll buy allen sockets down the road, in the meantime just get a bondhus set - they're nicer than Snappy.
*The scraper . A $1.29 putty knife works better than a $20 Snap-On scraper. (Yes - I do own both!)
*All the hammers. Estwing is the way to go! WTF do you need an 8oz. ball pein for anyway? Plan on going into the jewelry repair business?
*All the pliers (See "pliers" below) When was the last time you actually used 6" slip-joint pliers for anything other than picking torch cut-offs off the floor?

Definitely don't delete:
*The ratcheting screwdriver (one of my most beloved Snap-On tools)

Wrenches under 1&1/2":
*Go Snap-on, no contest. I didn't get the flank drive open end because they can leave marks. I worked aircraft maintenance before I went diesel - marks on acft hardware are a big no-no, so that influenced my decision.
*What's the difference? Compare a Craftsman 13mm wrench vs. a Crafstman1/2" wrench (almost identical). Then compare Snap-On 13mm vs. a Snap-On 1/2" wrench (They're different - as they should be). No, I don't work for Snap-On.
*Craftsmans are actually better if you're dealing with brass fittings. Brass fittings tend to run a little oversize, and Snap-On wrenches can sometimes be TOO tight. Try it - you'll see

Wrenches over 1&1/2":
*Snap-On is total overkill. Close tolerances aren't really necessary on wrenches that big.
*As long as it isn't a HF $2.99 "Jumbo wrench" special you should be OK.
*Get a good 18"+ adjustable wrench when you come across a good deal on one, you'll use it.

Ratchets:
*I've got Snap-On, Craftsman Pro, and Facom (If you want a sexy-smooth ratchet, Facom makes a 72 tooth one, but it's hard to find a U.S. dealer)
*Matco has an extremely loyal following also.
*S-K and Cornwell are damn hard to strip out, but they're also mostly 18 tooth. 16 & 18 tooth 3/8" ratchets are for neanderthals who like to break shit.
*I actually use a speedhandle accasionally. For small hardware going into cast AL - like auto trans sumps (read easily stripped) I think it's the best tool for the job. Automotive techs might look at you funny if you use one. Aviation techs use 'em all the time.
*Get a big 1/2" flex head ratchet, because using a breaker bar all the time gets old fast.
*If you plan to work heavy equip/diesel, also get the Snap-On 3/4" ratchet head - they're expensive but worth it. The handle is basically just a piece of knurled pipe with a hole in it, so at least they aren't too bad to buy.
*NOBODY likes to loan torque wrenches, and they're expensive. While you've got industrial pricing - buy some torque wrenches!

Sockets:
*X2 on Snap-On 12 pt - The medium depth ones are handy if you can afford a set. Snap-On 12 points do NOT strip out fasteners. My 3/8 impact stuff fulfills requirement for 3/8" 6 point sockets when I need them.
*For little bitty 1/4" drive stuff you can get away w/craftsman 6 points 99% of the time and it doesn't hurt your wallet as much if you drop one in the shop floor drain.
*Spend the $$ on your 3/8" stuff - that's your bread and butter if you go automotive.
*For your 1/2" drive hand sockets, you can just use your impact sockets. (Since I quit working aircraft - most of the chrome sockets bigger than 1" in my box just gather dust.)
*Get a 1/4" and 5/16" nutdriver just for hose clamps, or you can count on those two sockets being missing half the time. You don't really need any other nutdrivers unless you do a shitload of electrical work.
*FWIW: The only time in my career I have ever seen a 9mm fastener is once on an old Cummins front cover. It's the "unicorn" of metric sizes. Don't be afraid to take that shiny 9mm socket out of your brand new set and offer to swap it for a something else with the Snap-On dude while it's still brand new.
*A nifty tip: 16mm and 5/8" are for all practical purposes identical (~.004" difference) if you ever happen to need an impact 16mm 12pt (Detroit Diesel!).

Impact sockets :
*Older Matco & Snap-On are both good. Snap-Ons are a little bulkier but are near impossible to shatter, Matcos are little thinner and wear a little longer. (someone else made Matco's impact sockets for a while - if you know, who let me know because the older ones were better)
*Cornwell impact sockets are really bulky, really soft, and really crappy
*Mac's are thinnest but also very hard. tend to crack a little too easily.
*Buy 3/4x13/16 and 19x21mm "flip sockets" for doing automotive lugnuts, saves time. Time=money.

Extensions:
I have a mix of damn near everything. Almost every tool mfg has a specialty extension that nobody else makes.
*Cornwell's "bellhousing" extension is a real time saver if you do a lot of transmission work. 4ft long extensions like to twist - this one doesn't. It's not supposed to be for impact use, but it'll handle it no prob. (One of the few Cornwell tools I actually like)
*Matco's locking extensions are nice for your extensions over 12".
*Snap-On's extensions are a little less twisty - hold torque better.
*Don't buy pin-lock impact extensions. They will probably piss you off more than the sockets flying across the shop off the non pin-lock extensions.

Screwdrivers :
*Snap-On, 1990's style handles (Old 70's ones were too narrow, I don't like the new rubber grip ones - just a personal pref.)

Hammers :
*48 oz. and under - Estwing. No contest, they last forever.
*For a Brass hammer, you can re-handle a HF cheapo and it'll serve you just as about well as a Snap-On for around 7 bucks. "Brass is brass" pretty much. If you want a bronze hammer (they last a little longer) look under "mining equipment" on Ebay.
*I have a lead "Ford hammer" reserved for pounding on stubborn gears that a brass hammer might fuck up. I made it by melting scrap wheel weights in an old loaf pan. cost= free.
*on BFH's, cut-down an 8lb. sledge (2/3 length handle makes good "small BFH"). A 12lb. sledge is my last resort before the portapower comes out.
*I only know *one* guy that can actually swing a 20 pounder without killing himself or innocent bystanders. Unless you were raised by Carnival workers, or served time in a Chain gang, ~14lb. seems to be most people's upper limit.
*Don't break the bank buying a Snap-On deadblow hammer. Just get whatever's on sale at the hardware store, because it will probably look like a pitbull tried to eat it after a couple of weeks anyway.

Pliers :
*Channellock, Irwin Vise-grip, and Knipex Plierwrench (Knipex Plierwrench = awesome tool x eleventybillion!)
*Channellock has a few nice patterns that nobody else makes. They aren't really advertised as lifetime warranty, but the one pair I managed to break was replaced at no cost. Plus, they're made in U.S.A. which matters to me.
(BTW, Some Blue-Point pliers are rebadged Channellocks)
*The only style pliers not really covered by any of the 3 above mfgs are extended reach needlenose pliers. I only use mine to ocassionally recover a dropped piece of hardware, so I just got a cheapo brand.
*All but the Knipex are available at most farm/hardware stores. Matco and Snap-On trucks sometimes sell Knipex pliers (Cobra & PlierWrench) or you can order them online.

PryBars:
*Snap-On, Matco, & "custom hand forged from an Econobox swaybar"
*Cornwell Pry Bars are junk - my whole set was perma-bent within a month
*If you want the biggest, baddest prybar in the shop.... Find an old torsion bar from the scrap heap, heat and forge an end to your liking, then quench in the waste motor oil tank outside (try to avoid setting the shop on fire), Final grind with an 80 grit wheel and temper steel to "light straw" color. "Lifetime warranty", if it breaks just re-forge end and re-heat treat.

Air tools:
*Mostly I-R with a hodge podge of others.
*Snap-On's air hammer is worth the extra $$ if you do a lot of suspension work. It's ballsy!
*The souped-up and rebadged I-R super duty that Mac used to sell is still one of my favorite 1/2" guns of all time. Yeah, Yeah, I know, the composite ones are better.


Electrical tools:
Klein, Thomas and Betts, Greenlee, Anything not made in China (Buy in Lowes or Home Depot electrical Dept - less $$ markup than any of the tool trucks and they usually have better stuff)

Hacksaw:
Lenox - better than BluePoint and a lot cheaper

Storage:
whatever you can find that's big, sturdy and cheap. Plan on outgrowing it in a year or two unless you really go huge, so consider resale value. Ask the tool truck drivers about "repo" boxes - ocassionally you can get lucky. I never worked at a shop where I needed a pretty box but be warned - some dealerships don't like ugly boxes in their bays. (customers rarely saw my box, so aesthetics were a non-issue).

Some basic necessities to think about getting within your first couple months on the job:
*All your air tools
*A multimeter (Fluke's best, but at least get a little SunPro basic meter)
*A set of picks
* Punches and chisels
* extractors
* 4wd spindle nut sockets
* drill bits
* pullers (harmonic balancer minimum)
* Fuel injection basics (rail pressure gauge and a set of noid lites)
* A compression tester (a leakdown tester's even better)
* Cooling system pressure tester
* At least one decent C-clamp for doing brake calipers
* Brake spring pliers
* Your own cutting glasses - because "the shop's pair" is usually fawked.

Good to have for the side$$jobs:
* OBDII diagnostic software + beater laptop (much cheaper than Snap-On scan tool and the ricers will love you)
* EPA certification and tools for air conditioning.(big money maker in the south!)

A note on your brass drifts:
You really only *need* the big one (for wheel bearing races). If you're on a budget, you're better off just buying a big chunk of brass hex stock from a metal supply. (Hex works better too, it doesn't glance off as easily)


That's all I can think of (and a lot of this is repost from several months ago). Congratulations -this is the longest damn post I ever bothered to type.
good luck!


P.S.
The Snap-On retail dealer will probably offer you a credit account when you start actually graduate and start working. I don't want to slam anyone here, but I have seen some of the retail reps act really shady trying to take advantage of the younger techs. Think hard before you accept any credit offers and make sure you know the terms.

[the_experience3006]

DAYUM! :eek:

That was a TON of GREAT information. Thank you so much, Bumpy. I really appreciate getting opinions based on experience with tons of different stuff in different fields. I can really use that to my advantage.

Hopefully the Snap-On guy will return my call tomorrow and we can work from there. In the meantime I will take the information you (and others) posted and make a proposed revised list for my rep.

:beer::beer::beer:

[bigdreamin]

Ok, here is the Snap-On set as packaged for us in the program.

Final Cost with tax and freight: $1579.70
*it should be noted that that is without some of the flare wrenches I would want or deepwell sockets.

[carpal tunnel]
114ATMP Gen Service set, 6 pt, 14 pcs. in tray $74.65
1650 16" Prybar $18.00, buy the set of pry bars believe me you'll use them all
206AFSA 6 pt flex socket set $74.43
212FMY Socket set, shallow metric, 8-19mm 12 pt. $46.44
222AFSP Gen Service set, 6 pt, 22 pcs. $175.82
317MSPC Ext. Set $174.65
388BCP Pliers $16.87Get the 8" high leverage knipex cutters, they will cut stuff you never dreamed of with a set of dikes
96BCP Pliers $13.36
GSAF1E Adapter $7.58
A2A Adapter, 3/8x1/2 $4.39
AW1015DK Hex wrench set $15.75
AWM110DK Hex wrench set $15.86
B1356E Brake retainer spring tool $10.17
B3404B Adjuster, Bendix style brakes get a kit that has an assortment of brake tools, I got mine from Matco and used teh hell out of all the tools, IRRC it cost me about $50, so it is cheaper than buyign teh snappy spoons you have listed here$8.51
BP16B Ball peen, 16 oz. $9.77
BP8B Ball peen, 8 oz. $8.37
BT11 Brake spring tool, Bendix $9.90
BTC8A Batterty terminal cleaner $4.21you will never use this tool, I have brand new sitting in my box never used
AWP120 Pliers $13.26Go to sears or the Matco truck and get the 3 piece set of Knipex locking adjustable pliers, these things are the best damn pliers ever
CHN526 Pliers, 6" wire cutting combo slip joint $5.02prolly won't need these
CSA12C Scraper $20.67as it has been said go get a cheap putty knife or razor blade scraper fro HF
CT4G Circuit tester, 6v &12v $20.67 see if you can upgrade to this, EECT300BG , the cord allows you to reach more places and will come in handy.
ECF925 Flashlight, LED spot, compact $20.02
FB335 Feeler gauge $4.70
FS12B Flexocket $12.33
GA295 Mirror, round, 2.25 diameter $4.25
GA296 Angled Air Chuck $1.82 You'll never use this either, get a good air chuck with built in pressure gauge
HBPT16 16oz soft faced hammre $19.60
HS18A Hacksaw $16.77, another tools that will never get used, you will want to buy a nice air saw thou, work good for getting in tight places to cut fuel line and the like
JT13A Blowgun $6.35
KRA255A Box, Metal $13.13
OEX34B Combo wrench, 1 1/16" $25.20
OEX36B Combo wrench, 1 1/8" $30.24
OEX40B Combo wrench, 1 1/4" $33.93
KRA255ACombo wrench set, 11 pcs. $124.56
OEXM80B Combo wrench, 8mm $8.60
OEXM90B Combo wrench, 9mm $8.60
OEXM710B Combo wrench set, metric $97.20
PPC710A Punch and chisel set $59.26, I have a cheap craftsman set, never really broke any of them
RXFS1214B Flare nut wrench, 3/8-7/16 $9.18
RXFS1618B Flare nut wrench, 1/2-9/16 $11.61
S8 Universal joint, 2 11/16" $16.92
SGDX80BO Orange 8pc screwdriver set $44.37, try the plastic grip handled ones first many people including myself prefer them over the soft grip, however if you don't like them you could always trade them in.
SDD214 Screwdriver, flat tip, spark test, .025 tip, 5 1/8" $4.12
SGDMRC103A Ratchet screwdriver $35.91, personally I kept a 9.6v rechargeable cordless drill in my box for situations where I might need something like this, i.e. removing interior trim
SDMT20D Torx bit $2.11
SDMT25D Torx bit, $2.11
SDMT30D Torx bit, $2.11
SDMT40D Torx bit $2.11 Get a kit that includes torx, tamper torx, metric and SAE hex sockets, you'll use them all the time. I got mine from Cornwell for dirt cheap
SX2 2" Extension $6.08
SGT4 Handle driver $6.08
TW401 Socket, shallow 1 1/4" 6 pt. $11.25
VGP12107 Plier w/ cutter $8.29, CAUTION: using these pliers will result in injured fingers, throw tools and uncontrollable cussing. Seriously get a set of vice grips, most snap on dealers won't even sell these to you because they suck like a cheap pair from HF
YA131 gauge, pressure 10-50psi $8.29
YASG153 12' tape $3.67
PHP1 Pliers, hose clamp, swivel jaw $12.19
FS081 Socket, shallow, 1/4" 6 pt $3.85
SFS081 Socket, deep, 1/4" 6 pt $5.40
OEX8B Combo wrench, 1/4" $8.26
OEX10B Combo wrench, 5/16" $8.26
OEX11B Combo wrench, 11/32", $8.26
YA339 Scribe, straight/90* $2.68
SGDP122A Screwdriver $8.35
SGDP4120A Screwdriver $8.12
RXFS2022B Flare wrench, 5/8-11/16 $13.95
[/carpal tunnel]

In addition to what is listed I would want:
1. metric flare wrenches
2. deep well sockets
3. brass drift assortment
4. BFH


Beyond that I think I could probably survive. Input? Retail on that set I listed is ~$3977.

*edit*
Master tech starter set $1641.11
SEPAUTOADD Automotive add-on set $346.33

The pictures in the catalog look nice, but the fine print says they are a "representation" and nowhere can I find an actual list of what comes in those particular kits.

Beg them to let you upgrade to Flank Drive plus wrenches, they are amazing. Secondly you should think about getting a box, maybe just something cheap from sears to start until you get a feel for what you like.

Air tools, I couldn't live without them. I'd say to start you want a good 1/2" impact and 3/8" impact, I prefer IR Ti, superb power and not that spendy. You'll also want a good 1/4" ratchet, great for torquing down smaller nuts and bolts, snappy seems to have the best but it is expensive. Air hammer, if you plan on doing any kind of suspension work this thing is worth its weight in gold. Pounding out wheel studs, separating ball joints, separating hubs from rotors, Snappy has a pretty good one but so do IR for less coin. Get a long barrel the extra power is worth the extra cash. Right angle grinder, handy for preparing mating surfaces instead of using gasket scraper. This thing with a box of the 3M "cookies" is a huge time saver.

Other air tools to consider: 3/8" air ratchet, air saw, cut off tool.

As far as specialty tools you'll learn as you go what you need, a good rule of thumb is that if you have to borrow it more than twice you should buy it.

Good luck to to ya man.

[darkstar]

....

Nice post! :beer::beer::beer:

[NOT76]

SAE sizes will be useless at a dealer. I hardly use mine and I work on all years and models. I'd focus on metric stuff and get cheap or used SAE stuff. Metric tools are 95% of my work. I don't think that program package is of any use. Drum brake(getting obsolete) tools but no way to remove a wheel? 1 1/4 socket for what? A metal box? That list sucks. If thats all they offer I'd snatch it up at that price but it's not what you need to go to work. If you can buy anything at discount make your own list. Are they offering anything for storage? Gotta put tools somewhere, if they're offering big percentages off of toolboxes I'd jump on it.
Some things I couldn't do without (daily use); 1/4 drive: 5.5 thru 15 deep, shallow and shallow impact swivel. Full set of extentions. Air ratchet. Inch lb torque wrench. 3/8 drive: 7 thru 22 deep, shallow and shallow, deep impact swivel. Full set of extentions. Air ratchet and impact gun. Ft lb torque wrench. 1/2 drive: 13 thru 36 deep impact. full set extentions. Impact swivel. Impact gun. GET ratcheting wrenches, I ONLY use regular box end when I have to. Long needle nose style plyers. Streamlight stinger flashlight is well worth it's price. It's late, I'm tired...must sleep so I can make the money to pay the tool truck. Bumpydodge's post is pretty good, read it well.

[russellmn]

SAE sizes will be useless at a dealer. I hardly use mine and I work on all years and models. I'd focus on metric stuff and get cheap or used SAE stuff. Metric tools are 95% of my work...

This guy's in Eveleth, MN... people up here still run their old stuff and many still bring them to the dealer for service, so I would say the SAE tools are good to have. Plus, he's on here, so he's probably got at least one project in mind. We all know most of our stuff is old shit and is all SAE.

[the_experience3006]

This guy's in Eveleth, MN... people up here still run their old stuff and many still bring them to the dealer for service, so I would say the SAE tools are good to have. Plus, he's on here, so he's probably got at least one project in mind. We all know most of our stuff is old shit and is all SAE.

So true...so very very true. The exception might be my project. It started out all metric and is slowly turning more and more SAE. :D

I'm still playing with everyone else's tools before I make my final decision...I'll learn from their mistakes. So far I like the Snap-On set the best even if they are bending you over by sticking you with a bunch of stuff you don't need. I'm going to one of those Cummins truckload sales tomorrow to pick up some stuff that doesn't need to have any name on it to work like some BFH's, scrapers, welding vise-grip type clamps, pipe wrenches (they're ALL brutal on parts), etc. I need to order up my tools soon, but as it is I'm enjoying test driving everyone else's stuff.

[Hackfabricaton]

What I've found that I use most of the time is my GearWrench sets. I love those things!!!! Especially the stubby ones. I've been picking mine up, a set at a time, at Sears when they go on sale. Last set was $29.99 reg $59.99. Ya can't beat a 50% reduction in price on a 'name tool'.

When things go on sale it's time to buy....Keep your eyes open!

[the_experience3006]

Just an update...

I ended up going with the Snap-On set. There was no wiggle room to modify the package as it was because it had been approved by some regional manager or something. Whatever. The long story short is that I couldn't be happier. Those really really are quality tools unlike anything I've had before. Thank you to all those who helped me out with the decision.

There are still some more things I'd like to add to my box, but I have a feeling that's going to be the way it will be until I die. :D

[roverjohn]

I can't believe no one mentioned Wright tools. Easily the best socket wrench stuff around and not that absurdly priced.