Hornell Speedglas for TIG - shade question

[ROXROES]

I have a Hornell Speedglas Shade 3/10.

I just bought a TIG, but remember my helmet not being rated for TIG. The Speedglas website has filters for "some TIG", "most TIG", and "low amp inverter TIG welding".

I just bought the 200 amp ACDC TIG Stick ParkerMP TIG Stick, and its inverter based. I guess I am wondering the seriousness of the situation. Can I get away with using my Shade 10 or should I buy a new filter that goes up to 13 (9002X)?

[Shefron]

Tig is alot brighter then mig so I would switch up to at least a 12 but I think I normally ran mine at 13. I variable shade would be the prefered method. Higher the amps of tig the brighter the light.

[ROXROES]

Yah, that makes sense, your eyes are the kind of thing you don't wanna mess with! :D

I'm waiting on a quote for the 9002V filter. But don't think thats going to be much less if any than buying a whole new helmet, nice to have 2 anyways. The Speedglas 9002X helmet is $290 and I can get the auto darkening Miller with manual adjusted shades for $175 so might go with that.

[BumpyDodge]

If you had ever UV burned your eyes, you wouldn't be asking this question. You'll usually have about 2 days of blurry painful vision and it's almost guaranteed to make you miserable.

learning about UV burn *by experience* is completely unecessary. What's it worth to you (in $$) to avoid that lesson? Your answer justifies the cost of a new helmet.

Simple rule for shade selection w/any process: Use the darkest shade you can still clearly see the weld puddle with.

Not directly related to shade, but If you have pulse on your TIG it will confuse autodarkening lenses that don't have a delay setting. The lens will try to switch on/off at whatever freq your welder's pulse feature is set. You will get intermittent arc flash with some frequencies.

Search "Hornell speedglas". I posted on the same topic a while back. The upper end Hornells also have *functional* vents, which is a nice bonus feature.

[Wicked_S10]

It's all horse shit, use whatever autodark shade you are comfortable with, AS LONG AS THE SHADE MEETS THE CURRENT ANSI Z87.1 STANDARD. I have been through this on here before when I mentioned I prefer to weld with a shade 7 or 8 on my Optrel. Any helmet that meets the ANSI Z87.1 Standard will provide the same UV/radiant energy protection at DIN 3 (undarkened) all the way to DIN 13.

Here is a good explanation of what I am trying to say... Clicky for Article (http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/jan2002/collision.htm)

Anyhow, I have a Z87.1 helmet, it will go down to a shade 5 in auto dark mode. I run it wherever I am comfortable for any particular process. I typically never weld with more than a DIN 9.

BTW, my eyes are fine, I see an optometrist every year, no issues.

Later,
Jason

[ROXROES]

If you had ever UV burned your eyes, you wouldn't be asking this question. You'll usually have about 2 days of blurry painful vision and it's almost guaranteed to make you miserable.

learning about UV burn *by experience* is completely unecessary. What's it worth to you (in $$) to avoid that lesson? Your answer justifies the cost of a new helmet.

Simple rule for shade selection w/any process: Use the darkest shade you can still clearly see the weld puddle with.

Not directly related to shade, but If you have pulse on your TIG it will confuse autodarkening lenses that don't have a delay setting. The lens will try to switch on/off at whatever freq your welder's pulse feature is set. You will get intermittent arc flash with some frequencies.

I actually have flash burned my eyes before, was in a hurry plasma cutting very rusty grating to make my buddy a grilled chicken cooker. Learned my lesson hence why I was asking the question.

It's all horse shit, use whatever autodark shade you are comfortable with, AS LONG AS THE SHADE MEETS THE CURRENT ANSI Z87.1 STANDARD. I have been through this on here before when I mentioned I prefer to weld with a shade 7 or 8 on my Optrel. Any helmet that meets the ANSI Z87.1 Standard will provide the same UV/radiant energy protection at DIN 3 (undarkened) all the way to DIN 13.

Here is a good explanation of what I am trying to say... Clicky for Article (http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/jan2002/collision.htm)

Anyhow, I have a Z87.1 helmet, it will go down to a shade 5 in auto dark mode. I run it wherever I am comfortable for any particular process. I typically never weld with more than a DIN 9.

BTW, my eyes are fine, I see an optometrist every year, no issues.

Later,
Jason

This is what I was really digging into, is the shade recommendations a liability issue since it applies a big factor of safety? I remember when I first learned to TIG back in NY that we used standard flip down buckets and I doubt they were anything special, or over shade 10. I remember the tig being very bright, but I didn't get flash burned.

But in all I will probably purchase the Miller auto darkening with the adjustable shade knob on the side. I'll need to have two helmets for when I teach people how to weld.

Thanks!
Chris

[Wicked_S10]

The level of shade you have simply limits the amount of visible light that gets to your eyes. Too light of a shade and you will see spots, but it does not do permanent damage, it is just an annoyance. If I am not mistaken, it is actually the polarization layer(s) in the filter that block harmful radiation. If you had a shade 10 w/ no polarization, The UV and IR energy would burn the hell out of your eyes just as quickly as welding with no helmet. Different wavelengths of light do not respond to the same medium as visible light spectrum.

[Static-XJ]

I use fixed shade hoods. My only autodark experience is with two different Miller Elites. They were considerably lighter than the comparable smoked glass filter plate I'm used to. Their shade 12 setting was lighter than a shade 10 smoked glass.

About the only thing I use a shade 10 filter for anymore is TIG work. I usually work in a shade 12 because any lighter and I see spots when I flip my hood up. This is with dualshield fluxcore at 220-250a. For shortarc MIG I generally use a shade 11, 150-175a. TIG I use shade 10, 80-200a.

[ROXROES]

I use fixed shade hoods. My only autodark experience is with two different Miller Elites. They were considerably lighter than the comparable smoked glass filter plate I'm used to. Their shade 12 setting was lighter than a shade 10 smoked glass.

About the only thing I use a shade 10 filter for anymore is TIG work. I usually work in a shade 12 because any lighter and I see spots when I flip my hood up. This is with dualshield fluxcore at 220-250a. For shortarc MIG I generally use a shade 11, 150-175a. TIG I use shade 10, 80-200a.

So what I'm getting out of this is that my Speedglas Utility helmet is already shade 10 (which I have no problem with my mig), which is darker than shade 12? I guess I was thinking the higher the number the darker the shade.

That'll save me $175! :D

[Wicked_S10]

The higher the shade number, the darker it is. Myself and almost everyone I know uses a lighter shade tig welding than mig welding. Most of the time I use my fixed DIN 9 gold shade and cheater while doing tig. I love gold glass, it reflects a lot of light back to the work, and gives you a much more clear and lit view than any other color lens I have used. The biggest downfall is it is only available as a fixed shade.

Can't you just buy a fixed shade lens for your current helmet? Or just buy a cheaper fixed shade helmet for tig.

[THachiya]

I have the 9002X and it's a great helmet/shade. The only "miss" is that it does not have a grinding mode, (i.e. Stay at ~5) but you can tweak the sensitivity and delay settings. My eyes are worth the $, so no regrets.

PS...
The higher TIG settings are needed for AL, but I typically sit at 10/11 for mild steel.

[Static-XJ]

So what I'm getting out of this is that my Speedglas Utility helmet is already shade 10 (which I have no problem with my mig), which is darker than shade 12? I guess I was thinking the higher the number the darker the shade.

That'll save me $175! :D

I have never used a Speedglass, only a pair of Miller Elites. And both Millers were set at shade 12, but I found a smoked glass 10 to be about the same darkness (Millers were way lighter than the same shade smoked glass). 12 is a good deal darker than 10.

I say try out your existing hood with the new tig and see what you think. You might be just fine with it as is.

[ROXROES]

I have never used a Speedglass, only a pair of Miller Elites. And both Millers were set at shade 12, but I found a smoked glass 10 to be about the same darkness (Millers were way lighter than the same shade smoked glass). 12 is a good deal darker than 10.

I say try out your existing hood with the new tig and see what you think. You might be just fine with it as is.

I think this is what I'm going to do. I'm hearing that tig is brighter than mig, but most people prefer a lighter shade for tig than mig? My utility helmet currently has a shade 10, and I don't have any problem while using my mig.

I was really planning on just winging it with my current bucket, but since I have flash burned my eyes before and NEVER want to do it again. I figured it would be a good question for some more experienced fabricators.

Thanks!
Chris

[Wicked_S10]

Tig may well be brighter than mig, but I suspect it is more a perceived thing since tig is so much cleaner. If you are using a ceramic cup for your tig work, and not a clear pyrex cup, then a lot of the light from tig is blocked or shadowed by the cup. I think that is why I prefer the lighter shades and the gold glass. It reflects most of the light back at the work. Seriously, gold glass looks like you are working in near daylight. Everything is visible.

You really should be looking at the puddle and not the arc anyhow. Probably another reason I prefer lighter shades. Most beginners like to stare at the pretty blue arc...

Later,
Jason

[KarateDoc]

I posted a question in the general forum and it is similar in nature.

I will only be doing TIG and want to know what your recomendations are for a helmet. I was possibly looking at the 9002X speedgls for around 300 bucks but was wondering if I should be looking at a frew different models as well. I don't plan on doing a lot of welding but I could do more if I enjoy it.

[ROXROES]

I posted a question in the general forum and it is similar in nature.

I will only be doing TIG and want to know what your recomendations are for a helmet. I was possibly looking at the 9002X speedgls for around 300 bucks but was wondering if I should be looking at a frew different models as well. I don't plan on doing a lot of welding but I could do more if I enjoy it.

Miller
http://cgi.ebay.com/MILLER-216826-AUTO-WELDING-HELMET-STARS-AND-STRIPES-NEW_W0QQitemZ230169207820QQihZ013QQcategoryZ92090Q QtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

New Speedglas
http://cgi.ebay.com/3M-SPEEDGLAS-05-0013-41-AUTO-DARKENING-HELMET-WELD-8-12_W0QQitemZ230168857026QQihZ013QQcategoryZ92090QQ tcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

Optrel
http://cgi.ebay.com/OPTREL-K600-SATELLITE-BLACK-AUTO-DARKENING-HELMET-BONUS_W0QQitemZ230170394328QQihZ013QQcategoryZ9209 0QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem