I am planning on dropping most of the drivetrain out of a 87 F350 into my 74 bronco, but wanted to know if there is any good reason NOT to use the BW1356? In the threads that I have read, there hasn't been much said one way or the other about the case other than the 205 is better. I figure that as long as I build enough armor to protect the aluminium the BW ought to work fine just don't want to get halfway in and find out that this case sucks!
Thanks

You're exactly right, you don't hear anything about the 1356 'cause it does it's job IMO. No need to complain about it, and perhaps it should receive more praise than it does. It's an under-rated 'case IMO. The 205 is stronger (in theory) but I could never argue that a 2:0 low range is better than 2.69:1. That's just me I guess.

The biggest problem w/1356's is that with hi-mileage the pump will start to spin in the housing = no more lubrication :eek: Other than that they're bombproof and work great!

Great to hear!

I am just wondering what is considered High Milage, the case that I have has about 90K on it.

:)

another thing to think about is the size... I saw a 70's Ford fullsize pickup that had one of the newer BW t-cases in it, & they had to notch the frame to get it to fit in that truck. I can only imagine what you'd have to do to get one to fit into an EB frame.

Originally posted by Jerry74explorer
Great to hear!

I am just wondering what is considered High Milage, the case that I have has about 90K on it.

:)

Based upon my LIMITED personal experience, I'm gonna pull a # out of my ass and say 130k is considered hi mileage. Problem is, this is like asking when intank fuel pumps are gonna fail, some people report as early as 40k and some last up to 140k or more.

OTOH maybe that's a bad analogy 'cause I'd guess fuel pumps fail WAY more than 1356's..... there's gotta be hundreds of thousands of them still on the road today. Don't worry, if the oil pump fails you'll HEAR it LOL!... and can still limp it a short distance or more! I drove 3 hours at hiway speeds from Moab to home w/my 1356 growling 'cause I filled it w/water on Hole in the Rock. Oh, extend your breathers :flipoff2:

These 'cases also love to leak at the case halves, if I were you I'd consider opening it up and just re-sealing it while it's out of the truck.

Thanks for some great information, I feel better and better about the truck I bought!

Soon the ol Bronco will be :nuke: proof!!

FWIW, my 1356 had 200K miles on it when I pulled it and put in another 1356 I pulled at a u-pull-it type yard. The reason I did that was because the original t-case was shifting into the ranges too easily, didn't really click into each range so I wanted to go through it and do a rebuild on it just for peace of mind. The t-case was working just fine though when I pulled it.

Keep in mind, D60 is right- it's a hit and miss thing. Some of them fail early, some go freakishly long.

just throwin' this in here--from what ive heard, the only real problem with the 1356 is that the chain can stretch as it ages. it is also possible to break the chain, but ive never experienced that, and from what i hear, that is VERY tough to do. mines got 170,000 miles with no problems.

When I had the body of my EB I was going with a C6 and thought about installing a 1356. Making it fit was to big of a problem and it stuck down to low. The EB Dana 20 is lower geared, lighter and fits. But I got an Atlas anyway:D For an EB I would try and find something else.

Hoping to avoid having to sell the naming rights of my first born! I didn't want to have to shell out the extra $$'s for the AA adapter for the c6 to d20, hell It might be cheaper just to lift her more to make room if the 13-56 hangs low...

Might be cheaper now, but not in the long run. If you keep track of what thing's cost and keep driving it by this time next year you will have spent enough for the D20 adapter and you will still need the D20 adapter. Of course this will just lead to the do it right the first time argument and will lead no where....So, :flipoff2:it this is just my humble opinion.

Well Jerry, I have zero input on how a 1356 will fit in an EB. But if you wanna sell that 1356 cheap LMK :)

The one draw back I see is you don't have the ability to twin stick. It's a small thing.... but since you haven't commited to a t-case yet, might as well get what you want.

Do it right the first time!

I'm sure someone else will correct me if I'm wrong, but...

A 13-56 is an F-150 T-case, an F-250 or 350 should have a 13-45 t-case...

Atleast all the ones of that vintage I've seen did....

Even so ALL ford T-cases are plenty strong.

AllanD

Originally posted by AllanD
I'm sure someone else will correct me if I'm wrong, but...

A 13-56 is an F-150 T-case, an F-250 or 350 should have a 13-45 t-case...

Atleast all the ones of that vintage I've seen did....

Even so ALL ford T-cases are plenty strong.

AllanD

I also could be wrong but I don't think so. The 1345 came out earlier and was used in very few model years, somewhere around '85 and '86. After that came the 1356 which had an improved oiling system. The 1356 was used throughout the pickup line, up thru F350s w/Powerstrokes.

But I will admit it is difficult to find concrete info on this, and the magazines are ALWAYS wrong anytime they *try* to do a Ford feature.

Originally posted by D60


I also could be wrong but I don't think so. The 1345 came out earlier and was used in very few model years, somewhere around '85 and '86. After that came the 1356 which had an improved oiling system. The 1356 was used throughout the pickup line, up thru F350s w/Powerstrokes.

But I will admit it is difficult to find concrete info on this, and the magazines are ALWAYS wrong anytime they *try* to do a Ford feature.

Yeah I think you've got it right with the years.
FWIW, Mine blew up at 100K but when I pulled the drain plug it dumped out muddy water instead of oil. You know come to think of it I don't think I ever changed the fluid in it.:eek:

Hell the more posts I read the more I want to make this damn thing fit in my EB. Haven't gotten it out of the 350 yet as we are dismantling it piece by piece and we are only back to the firewall. If it is possible I'm gonna make it fit, unless it eats to much clearance.

I want :nuke: proof without the $1,000,000 price tag...

Originally posted by Jerry74explorer
Hell the more posts I read the more I want to make this damn thing fit in my EB. Haven't gotten it out of the 350 yet as we are dismantling it piece by piece and we are only back to the firewall. If it is possible I'm gonna make it fit, unless it eats to much clearance.

I want :nuke: proof without the $1,000,000 price tag...

I hope it works for you. I'm curious as to how it turns out, keep us updated. FYI, it only weighs around 50 lbs, which seems lite to me.

I do think a 1356 in an EB would be bombproof. Personally I think it'd be one of the last things to fail - maybe if you had D70 rear, D60 front w/35 spline stubs+CTMs, and driveshafts w/1410s throughout... then the 1356 would be the weak link. I guess I'm saying you'd have to work hard to make the 1356 the weak link, ya know?

Seems to me when you hear of breakage on fs Fords you never hear that the 1356 failed. Might be interesting to post in Gen 4x4 and see if anyone has any *first-hand* accounts of dead 1356s -- just not "my buddy told me he saw this guy once...."

Of course, don't run 'em full of water - all bets are off!

The lack of twin-stick capability is a bummer!

Well My Brother is working on a Lightning, (converting to 4x4)
and we decided to use a 13-54, partially because it is an F350 T-case and mostly vbecause it has a fixed flange at the back instead of a slip yoke (IMHO slip yoke in a T-case=BAD)

My thought is why make the housing of your t-case a "wear item"?

The other thing we are doing is regearing the Lightning (a '93)
from 4.10's to 3.55's.
the 4.10's are most useful for churning the gear oil at highway speeds (where this truck will spend 95% of it's exsistance)
and melting tires in a childish display of power...

The other reason is that we have a 3.55 geared D44 TTB front "chunk"with a factory installed Dana Trac Lok inside it.

The hope is that with 3.55's will cut fuel consumption "some"
and if not atleast the 3.55's will be harder to break than the 4.10's are.

FWIW, the nearest "slick rock" is somewhere in the neighborhood
of 1400 miles away and the truck will never wear anything bigger in diameter than 31's anyway.

Anyone know offhand what the low range ratio is on a 1345?

AllanD

Originally posted by AllanD
Anyone know offhand what the low range ratio is on a 1345?

AllanD

It's right at 2.7 give or take .02

Originally posted by AllanD

The other thing we are doing is regearing the Lightning (a '93)
from 4.10's to 3.55's.


What-cha going to do with the 4.10 R&P? Might be interested. E-mail me @ havack@hotmail.com

I replaced my 1356 with a 203/205 doubler. Not because the 1356 failed, but to get a somewhat lower low range in my F350 crewcab expedition truck (4.88s, lockers, diesel, wide ratio ZF, dual hydraulic winches, 325/85R16 XMLs), and to remove one possible failure mode (TC chain, also TC oil pump/planetary gear failure). For chain drive cases the 1356 isn't bad. But the doubler is an easy bolt-in.
Charlie

Originally posted by Charles Aarons
But the doubler is an easy bolt-in.
Charlie

.......on a LWB F350 :flipoff2:

I think the 4.10's are "buggered"

the last owner was doing neutral drops and broke the carrier

Fortunatly it didn't ruin the case.

As for the T-case he's not going to use the 13-45.
He's going to do the initial setup with an NP205
but he really wants one of those 203/305 doublers
from Offroad Design....

That with a granny gear ZF 5sp tranny...

AllanD

From what I have seen/read/heard, the 13-45 was used till 88' and the 13-56 replaced it in 89'

The 13-45 in my uncles 85 F-350 diesel has about 260K on it with no problems..
The 13-56 in my 89' F-150 has 170K on it, and my dads old F-250 diesel has 250K on the stock 13-56 diesel. Neither have any problems.

they are a pretty damn big T-case though, so putting one in a EB might be hard. I think a 13-56 and ZF combo would be pretty nasty combo for a crawler..

I've been through several 1356 cases due to my rock project ('89 sullsize eddie bauer bronco, cut, locked w/ 5.13's, pinched and poked frame width sheet metal in the front and rear) and have found the following:

The cases are tough if you keep the fluid clean based on the type of usage most of them get in non-comercial 4x4 use, i.e. weekend/ranch/fun wheelin.

The weak point is the chain. If its sloppy, replace it.

There are 6 different 1356's that had a different yolks on them as well as different gear ratios, and the splines on the output shafts are cut differently from one to another. Meaning, if you get a 1356 from a 6cyl bronco it could have a flange type mount yolk on it. It will slide on another 1356 with a strap type yolk, but not vise-versa. The differnt output yolks, shafts and houseing lengths can cause problems for fitment.

I had the same dream of utilizing one in an EB. No go. The 1356 is WAY to wide for the EB frame. You waould have to use an F150/ Bronco frame w/ EB body to make it work.

That said....if you get a good 1356 it will hold up with proper care. Mine is running behind a efi 351/ aod to a 9"w/ 5.13's w/ spool and the original (yes, I know......) TTB with 5.13's and a lock right. The front end is the weak point, but I can go to any junk yard and almost get the whole front assembly for free, so spare parts are everywhere.

I hope this helps you out.

my f-250 decided it didn't like it's transfercase this morning on the
way to work.......... arg..... came up with that ratchety/gear-grind
sound....... I was able to turn around and make it home after
having to hold the tcase lever either in 2wd hi pushing down
or 4hi pulling up hard....... so,

what do you guys think is wrong with it-???????

it kept disengaging, but I persisted and made it limp home.....

I hate these damn ford parts sometimes........

--Sherpa

It's rebuild time.

The main problem is probably going to be worn pads on the shift fork. But once the case is old enough to wear the pads out, there are probably other issues that need addressed as well.

this is in a 1990 f-250 7.3 e40d pickup used for daily driver duty.
I think it's got about 180k on the clock. very seldom is 4x4 used.
tranny crapped at about 130k, and the tcase was opened up at
that same time and inspected and re-glued together.........

--so, rebuild as in what:

how is this tcase-pump configured into the whole mess-?

would the planetary go bad-? help with some hints.....

--damn truck. I'm the original owner too.

--Sherpa

D60 knows the details better than I, but he's MIA for a few days.

There's a spec for endplay on the planetary. The sun gear eats into the carrier and kills it. You get more than .060 of endplay, and you need a new planetary. That's what happened to me.

The oil pump is mounted on the output shaft. It has a little leg that sits in detents on the case. Nothing to it, really.

There used to be a really good writeup at
http://www.atra-gears.com/gears/sep01/taming.html

But you can't get to it anymore. I tried to bring it up through Atra's archive, but it is for subscribers only.

However, if you go to The Wayback Machine (http://www.archive.org) and enter the URL, you can still get the text of the article with a few photos.

There are also plenty of good photos here: http://www.superford.org/?vID=139 under BW1356 images.

But yeah, when mine crapped out, it needed a new fork (chewed almost completely through), new planetary (endplay and boogered gears), and oil pump, plus all the bearings. Something like $400 in parts, IIRC.

Oh, and it doesn't matter if you never use 4wd... that stuff is wearing out while you're cruising the mall parking lot.

i busted a few studs and tore the outside of the housing up (gouges and scratches...it loved it) on the 1356 i had in my ranger when i first swapped to an aod. (hey it came with it and the d20 on my c4 was not a bolt on)...anyway, i bashed it off a rock with the full weight of the truck when i busted the studs...and the tranny mount and a motor mount :eek:

the only problem with it is that it was simply to big for me lil ranger. it always drove me fricken crazy rubbing on my heavily clearanced frame and combined with the engine vibes it was really sendin me over the hill..

but it never broke.

i went with the 208f because fit a lil better, but when i bashed on that one a bit jumpin some whoops it exploded. turned out the 208f didnt like bein in a bind and would not take it like the 1356..

i ended up with a jeep 208 with my 208f ford input shaft and tailhousing and shit in it..its small and fit perfect with no rub and was easy to protect. but its not very strong. rebuilds are needed alot.

so fitting that 1356 in an eb is gonna be a bitch, but i have to agree...its a stout bastard.

The 13-56 was the follow on to the 13-45, with a magnesium case versus aluminum, slightly lower gears, but that's about it. Both are very strong cases, used behind diesels, big blocks, and on everything up to a F-450. The conversions done on late 80's F-450's to make the 4wd used a 13-56 t-case, and those where done by a serious proffesional 4wd place (can't rememeber the name) and where basically unlimited budget, so if the 13-56 was bad, I doubt they'd use it. When you go to the trouble of essentially building a custom front axle, I don't think they'd leave in a less than good t-case.

My personal take on the oil pump failures is that alot of people put gear lube in the case, and this is what causes the pump to fail. I know of amy people who have had absolutly no troubled with them. Definetly stronger than a 208. There is also a kit to stregthen the oil pump mount, athough I do not know where to get it offhand.
-John

D60 knows the details better than I, but he's MIA for a few days.

There's a spec for endplay on the planetary. The sun gear eats into the carrier and kills it. You get more than .060 of endplay, and you need a new planetary. That's what happened to me.

The oil pump is mounted on the output shaft. It has a little leg that sits in detents on the case. Nothing to it, really.

There used to be a really good writeup at
http://www.atra-gears.com/gears/sep01/taming.html

But you can't get to it anymore. I tried to bring it up through Atra's archive, but it is for subscribers only.

However, if you go to The Wayback Machine (http://www.archive.org) and enter the URL, you can still get the text of the article with a few photos.

There are also plenty of good photos here: http://www.superford.org/?vID=139 under BW1356 images.

But yeah, when mine crapped out, it needed a new fork (chewed almost completely through), new planetary (endplay and boogered gears), and oil pump, plus all the bearings. Something like $400 in parts, IIRC.

Oh, and it doesn't matter if you never use 4wd... that stuff is wearing out while you're cruising the mall parking lot.


Saf-T:

thanks for the link and heads up.......... I pulled my case yesterday, and it
looks almost identical to the one in the linked pics..... the small arm on the
oil pump had spun... the oil pump pick-up tube was broken-off. the case
has almost no recess in it left for the oil-pump arm now. I haven't pulled
the planetary yet, but suspect so far it looks OK. there was alot of white
plastic in the bottom of the case. it is from the inserts in the shift fork.
the fork itself wasn't too bad, but will require replacing anyway. I also
can't get the oil-pump "pistons" out of the shaft yet. they're stuck.... the
shaft has a little bit of marking on it, but I am confident it will clean up in
the lathe...... so far it looks like I need the following:

bearing set
seal set/gasket
new oil pump
shift fork
either new/used case half, or some really techy/pirate fix done at home.
maybe I can finally use my mill for my own needs, rather than just shit I
make for my work...........

thanks again for all that info-!

This is why Pirate is my favorite site-!

--Cheers,

--Sherpa

Well My Brother is working on a Lightning, (converting to 4x4)
and we decided to use a 13-54, partially because it is an F350 T-case


I know this is an old thread but you must be mistaken because the 13-54 is a Ranger/Explorer transfer case.

any recommendations on where to buy these BW1356 parts for a rebuild-?

any places to buy a case-half-???

--Sherpa

local to the bay area please........... thanks.

has anyone ever sewn a 1356 doubled or a 1356/45 combo?

has anyone ever sewn a 1356 doubled or a 1356/45 combo?

Too long and they're not THAT great of 'cases. IOW, not worth the work

I'm working on putting a NP208 into BW 13-56 this summer. I may end up building a custom housing for the 208 planetarys though.

any recommendations on where to buy these BW1356 parts for a rebuild-?

any places to buy a case-half-???

--Sherpa

local to the bay area please........... thanks.

Sherpa, I have found those cases in JYs for $100-150 here in NC. Any F150/250/350/Bronco of 88-96 should have that case, same 6 bolt round pattern on the trannys. Shouldn't be that hard to find and MUCH easier than finding those parts and doing the work. Good luck

just as an FYI guys, the tcase I bought for "parts" came from Santa Clara
Truck Parts, in, you guessed it, Santa Clara, ca. some people who know
Bill will attest he's an overpriced shop. But I always seem to get great
service, and reasonable prices. I paid 300 bucks for a very slightly used
1995 bronco case. It was soo clean inside, I could have just used my parts
and ran this case....

so, santa clara truck parts......

--Sherpa

I was wondering how much power this could possibly handle. I've got an '89 F250 351W/C6/BW1356. The truck just turned 410K and is in need of an engine and completely new electrical. My plan is to put a 521 SCJ in it and was curious if this transfer case could handle it. Obviously I'd have it rebuilt first if it can, but I don't wanna go threw getting it fixed up and blow the chain on my first trip out.

I was wondering how much power this could possibly handle. I've got an '89 F250 351W/C6/BW1356. The truck just turned 410K and is in need of an engine and completely new electrical. My plan is to put a 521 SCJ in it and was curious if this transfer case could handle it. Obviously I'd have it rebuilt first if it can, but I don't wanna go threw getting it fixed up and blow the chain on my first trip out.

I am trying hard to remember who used to run a setup like what you are talking about. He had a really nice late 40's early 50's Ford mud truck and ran a 1356. Skipped Link maybe? Maybe that was on Ford Trucks... anyways, I have personally witnessed a 1356 with oh, say, 240,000+ on it handle ~550 crank hp out of a 7.3L Powerstroke in a 1995, so there should be your starting #. And that was under a guy who drives like his truck was a Mario kart.

Mario cart, lol. Alright good, I'm sure that powerstroke was puttin down more than a 521, so I should be good. Thanks.

Overhauling a 1356 is a couple hour project and extremely basic. You will only need some larger torx bits, large snap ring pliers, and basic hand tools. Throw some new bearings in there, maybe a chain if slack is excessive, and take 5 min and do the oil pump mod and rock it for another 200k.