Ok, here it is....
Man it was a long weekend, but it's done (mostly ;) ).

No big surprises. By 9am Saturday, I had most of my brackets done for the axle so I decided to go ahead and pull the truck down. I called Jayson to help, but he had to work, so I rolled out the cherry picker and started anyway. I will be sore for a few days :). I hate to have my truck down, so I try hard to minimize down time.

http://www.extreme4wheelin.com/images/post/f_coils1.jpg

http://www.extreme4wheelin.com/images/post/f_coils2.jpg

http://www.extreme4wheelin.com/images/post/f_coils3.jpg

http://www.extreme4wheelin.com/images/post/f_coils4.jpg

Some impressions:
Driving, the coils are wider spaced and that gave me good stability. Body lean on the road is less than with the leafs. Nose dive under braking is unnoticeable. I do have the same RR lifting effect that Jayson had. I've determined that's just an artifact of the geometry. The same effect you see with traction bars on the rear, except it is mostly noticeable under braking and lifts the wristed arm side only. On mine, I just feel the passengers side lift a bit when I lock up the brakes. Nothing big or unnerving.

Steering, it seemed stiff at first then I realized there is just NO slop in the system any more. Slight movement of the wheel result in the tires moving and you changing lanes :). It's something to get used to, but so far nothing dangerous. My panhard bar came out an inch longer than the drag link. Near perfect, so I have zero bump steer.

Springs, well that where I missed a bit :p . The 175 lb springs are too soft. I was going for 3" at rest, I got 3-1/2. I also ended up adjusting my spring towers almost all the way down to level the truck. Just playing around, I was able to bottom (coil bind) the spring driving over a curb. A little too soft. So, I'm gonna order a set of 200lb 14" springs. That should be about right (I hope :D )...

Flex, I don't know yet. I still need to build clamp plates to capture the bottom of the springs. Until then, I can't flex it w/out spitting a spring.... I'll probably wait 'till I get the new springs in to try it out.

While I'm at it I'm gonna order springs for the rear. I need to build new lower control arms and at the same time I want to move the rear back an inch. The coil over springs are the key to making that drop in! I'm also going to bump the spring rate up in the rear as well. I've got a little too much flex back there, and that should help keep it in line.

Well, one more weekend and I'll be done.. :) (How many times have I said that ;) ).....

Looking good i love it , Rubicon expreess front end design. :D
One of my friends has done the same thing on his zuki can't wait to see what type of flex number it produces/ also how well it work on the rocks . Keep us posted with results


:mad: Mad Man Sam:mad:

off topic and all....but i was wondering what kind of steering you are runnin with the hydro assist....looks like the box bolts up in the factory position.....tracker stuff?.....that's what i'm running on mine and was thinkin about havin the box drilled and tapped for hydro assist....

I love the adjustable spring mount. Very sweet looking set up. Mine are alittle chunky, but I didn't have much to go by 3 years ago. What are the coils from? or are they custom?

Originally posted by zukiboy
off topic and all....but i was wondering what kind of steering you are runnin with the hydro assist....looks like the box bolts up in the factory position

Yea the box bolts right up, in fact I never unbolted it! Yes, it's a factory Samurai mechanical box. I'm running a servo valve for the ram ahead of the factory box. It's basicly a full hydro setup, with mechanical feedback/center and backup.

mudlite - They are 2-1/2" ID coilover springs. I stole the idea from others on this board. They are the key to getting everything to fit! I'd been planning the front coils for some time, just could not get everything in the small space. When I saw some posts using them, the light bulb came on :). I'll be putting them on the rear as well, soon! That will allow me to move the rear back an inch without effecting the stock tank (for 85" WB). The truck will also gain another inch of clearance! ;) I ordered springs this morning, hope to have that done this weekned and ready to wheel test. ;)

Part number / Company for servo valve? Is it a char-lynn? Will it steer w/ drag link disconnected? Pictures? I did a search already if anyone starts #$%ing mouthing.

Reason: Bad geometry that a full hydro would fix but not allowed by law. Slack off steering box preload to take up geometry error in draglink and let ram take steering duty.

Ken

Originally posted by Slowzuki
Part number / Company for servo valve? Is it a char-lynn? Will it steer w/ drag link disconnected? Pictures? I did a search already if anyone starts #$%ing mouthing.


The servo is a Sweet Manufacturing unit, designed to add power assist to a rack-n-pinion.

http://www.sweetmfg.biz/what_images/oldservo.jpg
From:
http://www.sweetmfg.biz/whatdoing3.asp?what_id=4

http://www.howeracing.com/steering/steering5/index5.htm

It's got a splined shaft on the input (GM PWR box style) to the steering wheel and a splined shaft on the output which goes to the steering gear box.

The servo is just a Saginaw valve out of a power steering box, that Sweet packages in a stand alone case. It operates the hydro off of the torque applied (set by the sized of the t-bar inside). I chose a 250, I'd reccomend a 185 (this is stock in most GM boxes). Mine is a little heavy....

As you see on the second link, Woodward also makes one but they are HIGH$$$. The Sweet unit runs about $260-$270 from online shops.

If you tried to run it w/out the box, you would have to clamp the output shaft. But, then you would have joystick steering. It would be interesting, but not very practical. :)

Nice work Mark! Anxious to see the flex testing.

I'm really digging that adjustable upper spring mount.

You just solved a big problem for me. :D

r@m

Btw, it looks like you made all your mounts and such on brackets and then had the relatively easy task of welding/bolting the bracketry to the frame rails instead of doing the fab right on the frame.

Very sneaky and smart. I like it!

r@m

what style pump are you running with this set up?....so it will still transmit torque to the stock steering box if pump fails?....thanks for the info

Geometrically, your setup is almost exactly like mine. Same pivot points for just about everything.

Just one word of caution....

Those non-sealed rod ends are gonna last about a month before dirt, water and dust get in between the ball and socket, doing a real nice lap-and-polish job and creating a loose joint. BTDT. I´ve gone back to conventional sealed tie rod ends, even for the panhard connection.

:beer: :beer:

Originally posted by zukiboy
what style pump are you running with this set up?....so it will still transmit torque to the stock steering box if pump fails?....thanks for the info

The pump is a Saginaw TC pump (found on late Cherokee or in my case off a salvage LaMans car). The salvage pump started to die, so I replace it with a race car (still TC) pump. You can buy the race car pump for $120 new with no core! They are also modified for higer flow (need for the volume of the ram) and have standard hydro fittings (37 deg JIC). You can just go to any hydro shop and get lines made.

Yes, the torque is transmitted thru the valve. There is safety stop w/in the servo so if the t-bar was to break you still can control the mechanical part.

Azrckcrawler -
Don't know about flex yet. I've been calculating all morning. I should be able to get 11" of shock & spring movement which translates to about 20" at the tire with the new springs and 9010 shocks. I'm trying to keep it at or near 1000 RTI on 30 degree ramp. I really don't want more... I hope it's more stable than the leafs were. So far that seems to be the case....

Originally posted by billj
Those non-sealed rod ends are gonna last about a month.....

One word Bill, TEFLON liner! :D

I learned that lesson some time ago. I used all Teflon Lined 3pc heims on the rear suspension, and I've ran it over 8 months witout a single squeek. :)
All the heims on the truck are Teflon now. I swear by them. ;)

Mine weren´t teflon lined, were only bronze sleeved. Just out of curiosity, do you do any running in deep mud???

:beer: :beer:

Originally posted by billj
Mine weren´t teflon lined, were only bronze sleeved. Just out of curiosity, do you do any running in deep mud???

:beer: :beer:

Not a lot of deep mud. Mostly rocks, some mud, dust, and plenty of deep water. Deep mud would limit life some, but the liner would keep most of it off the inner race.

To do it again on the rear suspension I'd use Johnny joints. They are only a few $$ higher than a good quality Teflon hiem, and they can be rebuilt. That's what I did on the fronts...

I bet the bronze did die quickly. The 3pc hiems use hardened races and tend to last longer than the 2pc (not as strong though). Have you looked at any of the rubber boots for the heim's. I've seen them listed, but never tried them.....

Originally posted by okcrawler


Not a lot of deep mud. Mostly rocks, some mud, dust, and plenty of deep water. Deep mud would limit life some, but the liner would keep most of it off the inner race.

To do it again on the rear suspension I'd use Johnny joints. They are only a few $$ higher than a good quality Teflon hiem, and they can be rebuilt. That's what I did on the fronts...

I bet the bronze did die quickly. The 3pc hiems use hardened races and tend to last longer than the 2pc (not as strong though). Have you looked at any of the rubber boots for the heim's. I've seen them listed, but never tried them.....


No, I decided to go the simple and proven route, using conventional tie rod ends from a Chevy pick-up. The bitch was finding the tools to do the job, a tapered reamer for the stud mounting holes and 11/16 - 18 taps in both right AND left hand thread.

You can see a few pics of my setup at:

http://200.155.1.101/publicos/publico_album.php?SID=&TID=&AID=23215&IDCategoria=-1


:beer: :beer:

Originally posted by billj
You can see a few pics of my setup at:

http://200.155.1.101/publicos/publico_album.php?SID=&TID=&AID=23215&IDCategoria=-1

Now I understand the "Geometrically" part. :)

That's unique the way you laid the axle mounts in a horizontal plane. I take it you mounted one side front-back on the axle then the other side front only?

It is cool the kind of neet ideas floating around the PBB. :D :D

Originally posted by okcrawler


Now I understand the "Geometrically" part. :)

That's unique the way you laid the axle mounts in a horizontal plane. I take it you mounted one side front-back on the axle then the other side front only?

It is cool the kind of neet ideas floating around the PBB. :D :D

Actually, the axle mounts are front and back on both sides. For flex, I made one of the control arms with a pivot. That way, I could pin it for on-road use to stiffen up the suspension. However, I´ve found this not to be necessary...

I also chose to design the poli bushings to the horizontal plane to minimize binding during flex. In fact, the three mounting points, the 02 on the axle and the chassis mount are all in-line with each other...

:beer: :beer:

BTW, I was looking at your pics again and noticed that you´ve got a dropped pitman arm. If you lose it and go back to a normal one, it looks like your drag link and panhard will become really close to parallel.

You say that you have already no bumpsteer, but this will make it even less...;)

Sell the pitman to some newbie running a regular SPOA and you´ll have a few extra bucks to finance you´re next project...:flipoff2: :D :flipoff2:


:beer: :beer:

I don't have my springs in yet, but I could not resist playing with it some more last night. I ran a few errands around town, an excuse to drive it some. In an effort to speed up steering some time ago, I relocated the drag link back on the knuckle. With the leaf springs it was still a tad slow, but now it seem fast. Especially driving around town. Sitting still, it's 4 turns lock to lock with my Dana 44. Any others out there running a 44, I'd be interesting in what yours is (with what box, or even what's stock sami)?

I threw together a small ramp and flexed the truck a bit last night. Not really high enough to do much, but still enough to uncover a few adjustments I need to make. I smashed my ARB line with the panhard bar. I'm gonna have to put a bend in the bar to clear those :rasta:. The shock on the drivers side is rubbing the frame a bit on compression (flexed). I know I got that side a bit close, that was one of the last things I welded on Sun night, and I got in a bit of a hurry. I only need about 1/8 - 1/4", so I may just fire off the grinder and see if that helps. I need to replace that shock anyway (had a run-in with a stump), but I'll wait 'till I get the bugs worked out first. :) I busted a knob off one of the 9010's up front, so it's been fixed at 3 for a while. No problem for the leafs, but the coils will DEFIANTLY need more. I'll need to run them on 4 around town, probably on 5 for any high speed offroad stuff. ;) That's the way I've always ran the rear. I run 3 around town, then turn them up to 4 or 5 for the rocks.

Flexing up a bit last night, the truck seems pretty well balanced. Pulling up forwards on the ramp, I got more angle from the rear than the front. This is expected, the front leafs were significant here. Backing up the ramp the flex was pretty much balanced. That's good to see. I don't want the front dominating the rear on downhill. That leads to roll-over of the rough kind. :)

The lift on the front is really cool. It almost feels like you have horsepower taking off from a stop sign. When you gas it the front comes up like a drag car.. :D

Cool, everything you´re describing is the same as I have experienced. I run around with my Ranchos on 5 all of the time.

Just be ready to get used to some "emotional" body roll situations on off-camber trails. I´m still trying to find a good solution for this...

:beer: :beer:

Originally posted by billj
Just be ready to get used to some "emotional" body roll situations on off-camber trails. I´m still trying to find a good solution for this...

I hope that the wide coil spacing on the front helps that. I had a lot of body roll before, which lead to some "emotional" close calls. My nerf bars caught me several times at Moab this year. :D

If it get worst, than, well,, I'll get more practice rolling the truck back over.... I do carry a shackle and snatch block just in case I'm out on my own... :rasta:

Would you say that's the only real drawback to coils all around?
What spring rates did you end up with?

IMHO, the only drawback to coils is body roll. In all other aspects, they´re superior to leaf springs...

As far as my spring rates, I don´t really know exactly how much they are. I arrived at my set up thru trial-and-error. Because my rig is a factory coily, I was able to do my lift gradually, first using solid nylon spacers with shorter, readily available car springs to determine ride height and geometry. Then, based on that, some quick spring calculations, with a sampling of WAG to arrive at the design for the custom-wound coils that I´m using.

:beer: :beer:

Rig looks great! I saw you in Disney on Memorial weekend, but didn't know it was you until the pics the next week :D I was in the red 4runner. We are heading back again this summer!

Chris