I have been working on an adapter to install a throttle body injector to the LC intake. The details are on a web page here. (http://www.iei.net/~msmythe/TBI/tbi_info.htm) Kit includes the hardware to mount the adapter and the tbi, and a tbi base gasket. The adapter is professionally cnc'ed from .75" 6061 billet and the bores are radiused.

A little time spent at the pick n pull, a good service manual, and a few new parts and you can have injection, for less than the cost of a replacement carb.

Thanks for the bw.

Although I am doing mine to a V-8, It isn't overly difficult. I paid 125 for the TBI, wire bundle, sensors, computer, and distributor. Get a wire diagram and go for it.

hey space i been wanting to ask you about that, and weather you had the chip re-programmed for the 2F or does it seem to work well stock from the 4.3 ??

The 4.3 chip doesn't run worth a squat. Ask anyone who bought a Downey kit! I took a different approach on my install. Not having any previous experience with the harness or a TBI swap, I chose to purchase a kit from Howell EFI (http://www.howell-efi.com) . They have a chip that was included for the 2F. At this time they don't list a kit specifically for the Cruiser on their web site but is is very similar to the early Jeep kit.

I also came across a Cruiserhead in Colorado that had done some work on a chip to improve the Downey fiasco. He has the program to control the ignition which is something I didn't choose to do. I tried his chip in my setup and I swapped back after a few hours on the trail which should have been enough for a fair test. The Howell program was more responsive at least in my set up.

The adapter I am providing is being reviewed by Howell for possible inclusion in their kits. If you want more info check their site, or give them a call.

Mike , one of the guys in Lone Star Cruisers, Dave Perry has done this ,and burned his own chip, don't know if he's interested, but he could duplicate them, I drove his 60 and it is sweet. If I understood him correctly he bought a program to hook a laptop up and dial in all the parameters....Dave is on this forum from time to time.
Butch

Originally posted by texican
Mike , one of the guys in Lone Star Cruisers, Dave Perry has done this ,and burned his own chip, don't know if he's interested, but he could duplicate them, I drove his 60 and it is sweet. If I understood him correctly he bought a program to hook a laptop up and dial in all the parameters....Dave is on this forum from time to time.
Butch

Damn another Texas NEWBIE!!!! :D :D :D Big friggin' grin on my face... looks like "The Wise One" got signed up for POR.

Well, in that case. WELCOME :flipoff2: (The odd way of a friendly greeting around here). Now we just need the bald headed one of the north to "head slap"... CK is also around, so we can pounce on him for fun. :D

Butch -- Dave is also around and should comment. I am thinking he did NOT use the ignition map feature. For doing custom tweaks TunerCat (http://www.tunercat.com) is recommended. Pretty sure Dave went with the 1227747 ECM and used Tuner Cat.

Tom :usa:

Dave's input will be very valuable. If he will sell the copies to guys that want TBI, it is even sweeter. I am guessing there are several approaches to this mod, depending on the ignition control choice. 2 respected individuals in the TBI swap arena suggested to me to let the distributor handle ignition, recurve it to take advantage of the mods. A side benefit is the ability to swap back a carb and get home, wether this is important or a realistic need depends on the individual. I got a trailer!

1. DIY, pick the pieces from a boneyard and mod the harness. Get a 1227-747 ecm and TBI from a 4.3 S-10, the linkage plate has a cable guide, not on the Astro van. Leave the ignition stock and tweak it. Get a chip specific to your vehicle (maybe Dave) and use some new or reman parts, fuel pump, fuel filter and sensors. And of course make or buy the adapter, and mod the linkage, and deal with an air cleaner. I estimate with a a new fuel pump and sensors, this is doable for less than $500. I will put a pencil to it later to confirm.

2. Kit purchase. Find a vendor that is capable of providing a bolt on kit, chip and all new parts and sensors. Might come with the adapter, or make or buy it. Mod the linkage, leave the stock ignition and deal with an air cleaner. Cost is somewhere between $1200 and $1500 (guessing here).

Add an HEI to the mix, set it up for max performance with either of these options and spend a ferw more $$$. New DUI's are about $500.

Add to this the system to control ignition and price will go up some depending on the distributor. A few more sensors and a chip specific to that set up. You can program in more advance/retard this way, but is it really needed? I'm running (from memory) 24 deg at 2300 rpm advance on top of 14 deg initial advance. with a DUI dist. Stock might be good for 18 deg advance, not certain but it's less than the DUI's.

I await more tuning info to enhance this thread.

One trip to Moab with the 2F TBI and Dave is replacing it with a SB350.

What's up with that?

No that I blame him...

Originally posted by wngrog
One trip to Moab with the 2F TBI and Dave is replacing it with a SB350.

What's up with that?

No that I blame him...

Like you are one to talk ;)
LOL

Kate back yet?

Originally posted by Jason M



Kate back yet?

Nope, gonna go peek at her today :D

Originally posted by wngrog


Nope, gonna go peek at her today :D

Pics Nolen!!!!

Dave used the PU coil from the LC distributor and has it wired into the module from the GM system, welded the advance weights up inside the dist. So basically the module is handling all of the timing curve. Module is mounted on a heat sink plate and would be very easy to service.
As far as him swapping out the TBI 2F, if he had something for gears other than the stockers, and a stronger engine (150k), I doubt he would be considering this, if it were in a 40 it would be SWEET!
Butch

For those of us unlucky rig owners in CA, how difficult is it to remove the TBI stuff and swap back to the carb for SMOG checks?

Are there any modifications which would make swapping back a hassle?

After looking a Dave's I'm thinking it would be nearly impossible, or at least a bunch of trouble....the ticket would be to attempt to disguse it all, and take the chance the smog police used the sniffer and visual to confirm. I'd wager, Dave's close loop system is way cleaner than any fully smog legal 2F, I'm not sure what if any effect the AIR system would have on the O2 sensor, although there are a few 87-88 350 TBI's that had one.
Butch

I still like my CJ-7 Holley Pro-Jection. Cost about $1000 but tuneable on the fly, easy install, etc. wish you had made those plates about 9 months ago, i would have bought one, hehe. I had to drill out the J##P pattern to fit the 2f intake.

Good to hear there are more options for 2F guys that want injection, though.

I'm looking at engine swap options right now, but if I can inject my 2F for that cheap, it's starting to look like a viable option.

So give us the straight goods, Spaceghost... Did you get a significant power gain? What about fuel economy? If I could improve both of those, I'd be happy (or at least happier for now!) with my thirsty-but-underpowered 2F. :D

Fuel Injection has many advantages, including better fuel mileage and more responsiveness on my Cruiser. I can only tell you what I feel though since Ican't ptovide and measureable proof. My rig is a trail rig with short jaunts on the road to trail heads and an occasional short errand. It's only a matter of time before a curious peace officer renders it a trailer bitch when they tag me for no windshield, no front fenders, and no side markers in the front signals.

I never measured fuel economy, ever. There wasn't any! With injection I am buying 30 percent less fuel for similar wheeling trips and time in hours spent running. I never fill it up since it spend enpough time off camber to make that a serious waste of good fuel.

As far as power, A carb and tuned ignition could provide similar results. Probably not as efficiently, but wide open flat out, the carb is just as good. The instant throttle response is the most notable performance gain. The "run as long as the tank pickup is submerged" experience leads to body damage on the trail. A carb would stop running long before you could encounter the "lay on your side" wheeling you can with injection. I know most don't want to do this, but it sure shows how far you can go and still be running.

Watch for posts with pics from errocs in Jellico this weekend for proof. At one point (and I was told pics would posted here), I was standing straight up (stuck) and the engine sat and idled until I shut it down and left the vehicle. They really start to belch smoke when the oil is bathing #5 and 6 cylinders from the cranck side. The pcv valve port gets filled with oil and looks like all hell broke loose.

i had the fuel injecton for the 2f form up and over for awhile on my fj-40(it's still on there, i don't own the 40 anymore). that's where howell got all there research from and where they have the chip. UAO have since gone with turbo city system. it uses the hei dist and turbo city is nicer to work with. it was good but i think you really need to be able to burn and program your own chips to make it the best it can be. the chips you get from howell/turbo city are just ball park guess's.

it will not pass smog as you remove the smog pump and air rails and that's required to stay for ca emmisions.

dave

Originally posted by davefj40
it was good but i think you really need to be able to burn and program your own chips to make it the best it can be. the chips you get from howell/turbo city are just ball park guess's.


Dave is right on the chip, I doubt there is a chip that would be perfect for even half of the Cruisers with all the differences in mods, and usage requirements. Tuning for economy, and daily driveabilty is different than power and responsiveness. I have run a few different chips (not UAO or Turbo City's) and the Howell chip is the best of the ones I used. They (Howell) are willing to tune it further, but the reality is, what I want and will perform for me, won't be the best for the daily driver.

If you have the time and interest to tune and test your own chip your results will be much better.

Don't count on anyone CARB exempting these kits. It is cost prohibitive for the market size. But someone did ask about swapping back to the carb for testing, the issue is how many times can you remove and reinstall the air rail before it kinks or becomes unuseable? The work isn't that bad, maybe a weekend as long as you haven't modded the only distributor you have. So I think it could be done, just not a lot of fun.

howell's chip is from all the work that wayne from UOA did. they were a pain about giving the info to them to let them burn there own chips. was too long of a waiting period to wait for them in the mail. they switched to turbo city because they were more user friendly with helping to program there own chips. ever cruiser i saw needed to go thru a cople of chips before everything was really good.

your adapter is close in design to them which is nicer then the original one i had (first design)

dave