This really doesn't belong in this forum but since there was much discussion when the 2007 Sierra Trek was canceled, I figured I would start this here:

Sierra Trek 2008

Having Sierra Trek 2007 canceled had a good and bad effect on the overall event. The bad parts, the overall disappointment of not doing an event that everybody looks forward to for a full year and four wheeling on one of the best trails in the state. The loss to the budget of CA4WDC where the funds are used to fight land closures was also one of the bad points. The good part of the cancellation is that it presented an opportunity to refresh the event with some changes.

With Sierra Trek 2008 there will be some changes made, base camp is moving, and the number of trails, days, and meals will be reduced. To encourage more people to attend the price to participants will also be reduced.

Days for Sierra Trek
Sierra Trek is going to a two day event, Friday and Saturday, with camping through Sunday noon. The elimination of Thursday will save CA4WDC money and volunteers. This will also make it easier for anybody who has limited time off or other commitment to schedule personal time better.

Costs and meals
For the two days of the event in camp meals will be limited to breakfast and dinners. Participants will have to plan on their own meals or snacks for on the trail or for those in camp during lunch time the option is supplying your own lunch or checking out the snack bar. Most people that have done the trail remember the many different trail lunches that have been tried most with no success so this year trail participants will have to supply their own trail lunch/snacks. The reduce meals and days will help control costs to participants so that more people can afford to attend the event.

Base Camp
The new location for the base camp will be the Cisco Grove Campground on I-80, which has many advantages over Meadow Lake such as easy access, power and water at all campsites and real bathrooms with showers sinks and toilets.
The campground is bicycle and ATV friendly, in fact for ATVs there are trails from the campground right out to the forest service roads so participants can bring their other toys and enjoy them also.

The road into Meadow Lake has caused many problems such as the damage done to trek equipment and participants vehicles, motor homes and trailers and the amount of time required to get into and out of Meadow Lake. The easy access to Cisco Grove will eliminate damage to vehicles and equipment and reduce travel time. A bonus is not following the slow moving vehicles out on the rough dusty road.

The new location has power available not only at the campsites but at the pavilion we will use for meals and the open area that the vendors will be located in so a generator will not be needed and with paved roads the water truck can also be eliminated reducing operating costs.

There are many other reasons Cisco Grove Campground was chosen but as can be seen from the few examples above the new location will be easier to access eliminate damage to equipment, reduce some of the logistical problems of moving equipment in and out and reduce operating costs.

Trails and Number of Days
One change for Sierra Trek that was discussed was to run the trail backwards, from Meadow Lake to Indian Springs. After meeting with the trail coordinator it was decided to run the trail in the normal direction, with the possibility of doing a reverse trip next year. Trips that have been eliminated include all Thursday trips since Sierra Trek was reduced to Friday and Saturday only, and Star Trek. An SUV and intermediate trail are planned for Saturday. With the new base camp location being one mile from the start of the short wheel base trail staging will be done in camp. Now people will not have to drive around to staging the night before or early in the morning which can be a chilling ride. The drive will still have to be done, it will just after the main trail.

With the above changes Sierra Trek will continue to be an outstanding event with a fresh look and feel while still maintaining the original premises of the event, a fundraiser for CA4WDC

Plan on attending Sierra Trek 2008 to be held on the second weekend of August and give the new format a try.

David Douglas
Sierra Trek 2008
Chairman

That all sounds good but what about the vehicle requirements change. This is what kept me out of Sierra Trek every year. Hopefully they will change the requirements.

That all sounds good but what about the vehicle requirements change. This is what kept me out of Sierra Trek every year. Hopefully they will change the requirements.

Ya if they want mare people to come they need to change the vehicle requirements.:D

I'm not on the Committee but as I hear anything else, I will post it up. Just passing on info for now. I like to share.

Seriously, just like trying to make changes to anything else, let the right people know your concerns. Dave Douglas has an email listed on the Cal 4 Wheel website. I am sure constructive ideas will all be considered. Maybe get onto the Cal 4 Wheel forum or the In Gear forum, start threads there get the discussions going.

Steve G

The new format sounds good, except, how in the hell are rigs expected to return to Cisco? Two way traffic, I think not.

That may be fine for street legal machines to drive around and back via 89. But what about Green Sticker and others.:confused:

Having Trek at a place where folks can get RV's and vendors can get big trucks or at least a good set up should really help our vendor turnout. Vendors are a good part of our support and good vendors brings more participants. Could be all good.

For sure, Dave Douglas is a good guy and will try his best to make this a good situation for us and the Association. But for sure it's always hard to make change in something that has a long history. But drop Dave a note if you have a suggestion. That is what CA4WDC is about -- it's about us.

Del

I sure wish I had know this before I said to apply my money to next year. For some it may be all right but for me I dont like bait and switch.

I'm kind of on the side of not liking this new format. I think it kills the flavor of the event as it has always been. Getting into Meadow after a day on the trail made it seem like you had ARRIVED! Green sticker vehicles take a big hit and my biggest concern is all those participants driving around back to Cisco after a long day on the trail and with posssible damaged vehicles.

Hey, times change.

That being said and my personal feelings aside, I believe we should support Cal or take any comments and suggestions to them directly. Shouldn't criticize without knowing the full story. They have had problems filling all the chairman spots recently and there is no denying the logistical problems of having basecamp at Meadow. A possible plus side to a Cisco venue is that in the event of a forest closure a kick ass party could still be held with all the vendors, entertainment and food.

Cal stays the same and people criticize.

Cal changes and people don't like it.

Seems like kind of like a no win situation for them.

They have my support for a trial run at this new format.

Interesting.

Was there a meeting that I somehow missed, I wonder? Went through all my past emails notification about Trek meetings and don't have one for any recent dates . . . .

I sure wish I had know this before I said to apply my money to next year. For some it may be all right but for me I dont like bait and switch.

Before you shoot them for "Bait and Switch", contact Cal 4 Wheel with your concern. If you don't want '07 applied to '08 with the new format, I would hope they would refund your $$$. If they don't, then you would have a legitimate gripe.

Interesting.

Was there a meeting that I somehow missed, I wonder? Went through all my past emails notification about Trek meetings and don't have one for any recent dates . . . .

I heard rumors of a change about 3 weeks ago. Received this info through email.

Hey, times change.

Cal stays the same and people criticize.

Cal changes and people don't like it.

Seems like kind of like a no win situation for them.

They have my support for a trial run at this new format.

That's the right spirit!!

So much for keeping the commitee members in the loop on this... :shaking: I mean, when you have to find out about something as important as doing a complete shake up of Trek on a bulletin board, that's just fawked up!
Granted I'm a commitee member by association (Kimber and Friday staging), but geez... when the Chair can't communicate with it's own committee members, solicit opinions, or ask for input, that leaves me wondering who made the decisions?:confused: That shows to me just how important the Chair thinks of his volunteers.

I guess with staging being done in camp, there wont be a need for any of the staging committees.

I for one an looking forward to camping at Meadow lake that weekend, with or w/o Cal4wheel...

Guess it's time to support the Blue Ribbon Coalition...

Cal4Wheel?? Hmmmmm.....

I for one an looking forward to camping at Meadow lake that weekend, with or w/o Cal4wheel...

Good point. There is always that option.

Ya if they want mare people to come they need to change the vehicle requirements.:D
It is *our* state association... if we want a change, we need to make them aware of it.

If this is *your* issue, then the way to make that change is for *you* to talk to the Trek '08 chair and attend the Trek '08 meetings to lead the change you'd like to see.

Been there and done that, BTW (I helped drive the simplified rules a few years back)... it is possible, and I'll help, as I believe that the rules are overly restrictive, but I won't lead that charge, this time around, because of other commitments in my life.

If you want to make a change, then step up. :mr-t:

Randii

The new format sounds good, except, how in the hell are rigs expected to return to Cisco? Two way traffic, I think not.
...That may be fine for street legal machines to drive around and back via 89. But what about Green Sticker and others.:confused:
How did you do it before? The actual Trek trail remains the same -- you must have had some way of getting the rig around (or back through) before, right?

Randii

They have my support for a trial run at this new format.
Well said, Bret. I agree -- both on not being a fan of the change in venues AND that they have my support, in trying it.

I expect I'll ba camping in Meadow Lake, tho.

Randii

...then the way to make that change is ..attend the Trek '08 meetings ...
Randii

yeah, but if they hold super top secret meetings and dont inform their commitee members of the proposed changes... how would you know? I know, you wait until it gets posted on a bulletin board??

I guess the only way to make sure you're "in the loop" would be to become an officer or board member??? I guess being a Sierra Trek Committee member isn't enough to be kept in the loop regading Trek... :confused:

yeah, but if they hold super top secret meetings and dont inform their commitee members of the proposed changes... how would you know?
I full understand your frustration at this, Randy. I heard rumblings of a 'change' but didn't know about this turn of events until earlier this week, by email.

I'm disappointed at the communications, and I intend to show up at the next Cal4 Board meeting to make sure that THAT is addressed, going forward. I'm concerned about the message that this sends about respect for volunteers and attendees... I think this could have been handled *MUCH* better, but that's water quickly passing under the bridge. How they handle it going forward is DAMN important.

Randii

I full understand your frustration at this, Randy. I heard rumblings of a 'change' but didn't know about this turn of events until earlier this week, by email.

I'm disappointed at the communications, and I intend to show up at the next Cal4 Board meeting to make sure that THAT is addressed, going forward. I'm concerned about the message that this sends about respect for volunteers and attendees... I think this could have been handled *MUCH* better, but that's water quickly passing under the bridge. How they handle it going forward is DAMN important.

Randii

Randii,

I dragged your bootay into being a Trek volunteer all those years ago. Oh how I remember "conning" you into being a "club" member. We've been through a lot of changes over the years regarding Trek. But I can't remember one time in all those years that communication about these types of monumental changes was done so shitty. I haven't even gotten an email of this letter. I've gotten all my "meeting reminder" emails though!

Sorry, but Dave made a great chairman for Trek years ago and his involvement this time around may well have cost them (Cal4) "this" families time and efforts. It's a good thing that he has reduced his need for volunteers by half because he just lost a whole bunch from my end.

Kimber

Boy, we can sure get upset when something pops up here and it APPEARS to not have been done the way we thought it should have. Trust me -- I have felt the wrath of this board more than once for the same thing -- miscommunications.

Some of us learn slow...others try hard and make mistakes...some of us just plain screw up and need to find another outlet for our passion for four-wheeling. But....let's not get mad until we know all the facts, find out if the committee has changed, or if we missed something along the way. I no longer get cranky until I know for sure my knickers are twisted up for the right reasons.

Let's email the man. Let's get the full story. Please...
Del

I dragged your bootay into being a Trek volunteer all those years ago. Oh how I remember "conning" you into being a "club" member.
I still blame you for that! :D

We have had a load of good times, though. Let's talk about this more over the weekend and chill on it -- I fully understand why your are hot about it, and I full agree that communications on this were done poorly, and that decisions were made without group consult. At minimumum, this should have been discussed with the committee chairs...

...but this event is core to Cal4's ability to fight for our access. I don't like the proposal, but I'll give it a shot.

Randii

Hey, there's lots of time yet before Trek '08.

Things can be modified I'm sure.

Talk to Cal and see what happens.:smokin:

Sorry guys. But I believe that volunteers should not be the last to know. At the very least they damn sure shouldn't find this kind of stuff out on "any" bulletin board first. This is the same way that many of us Chairpersons even found out about the cancellation in the first place.:shaking:

I respect your opinions and clearly you actually care about the people who have given repeatedly to Trek throughout the years. It's obvious that the current Chair does not hold the same esteem by his lack of respect towards them now.

Del, BRC will gain our funds in the future.:D

How did you do it before? The actual Trek trail remains the same -- you must have had some way of getting the rig around (or back through) before, right?

Randii

Yes, in previous years I drove out to 89 and home. But things have changed over the years. Sure, my rig is registered, but in all reality it is not street legal.

For the past 5 years I have been associated with the group that works winch hill 3. We arrive on Wednesday and work until Saturday afternoon or maybe into the evening. When released, we head to Meadow to party and spend the night. Then head back out the trail on Sunday to the commitee crossing back to Cisco Grove load up and go home.

What about the groups that work hill 4 and 5? As I understand they return to Meadow each evening and back to the hill's in the morning. No two way traffic.

I believe Cal has the right idea (change is needed) but they should have requested ideas as to what changes could be made and how.

I'll be there in 2008 anyways.

I wonder what that means for all the people that park there tow rigs at cisco groove..

To me, they are making the right moves by lower fees, etc but moving the location to an area where its going to create two way traffic on the trail is wrong.

wonder what the plan is for rigs that break between Winch Hills 3-5

feel sorry for the guys that were getting in camp real late at Meadow in the past....going to have to add at least another couple hours to the trip to make it back around to Cisco. Someone to help people air up, etc.

If they feel that Cisco Grove will be a better base camp, all the more power to them... Won't change anything for us at Trek I dont think. :)

Hey guys, I didn't mean to scoop an apparent "Official Announcement". I received this info through email but not through an official Sierra Trek source. Maybe this wasn't supposed to be public . . . my bad. Maybe your 2008 Chairperson is/was planing on contacting the Committee Members through other means . . . my bad.

Personally, hats off to Dave Douglas for stepping up and Chairing the event!! I don't see how this should have turned into a bad thing.

Personally, hats off to Dave Douglas for stepping up and Chairing the event!! I don't see how this should have turned into a bad thing.

Agreed. Anyone who has ever been to a Trek committee meeting knows that you cannot get everyone there to agree what day of the week it is! I applaud Dave for MAKING A DECISION, however unpopular it may be. I'll be asking for the vacation time to come back to Sierra Trek in 2008.

Well it has all been said. I feel for the Green Sticker guys (I still have current plates, but many buddies of mine are in sticker buggies). Cisco Grove or not I will still be bedding down at Meadow Lake. That is Sierra Trek for me. I am sure the Cisco site offers them more ability to fund raise, which benefits us all. I still stand behind Cal4W. The point of Sierra Trek is to get people out there on this trail, and to raise a chunk of change to fight for our trail rights. Generally the trail can be run anytime by anyone (fire season permitting). I don't think it will stop people from attending. Having the "Support" there is a big bonus to people running the trail the first time. I personally have no desire to cruise back up to Cisco until Sunday when I need gas to drive home. I guess I will miss the "entertainment" but I will have plenty of people around at Meadow Lake, I certain. I do think it is unfortunate that communication is almost non existent here. People speak of participating to create change, but how does a person who cares get a forum to effect change in the first place. It isn't clear to me at all how I (or anyone) could do that. That will make anyone cranky, obviously.

The club I am with works Winch Hill #1, as far as I am concerned this has no effect on us.

As for two way traffic, couldn't the people with Green Stickers spend the night at Meadow and then first thing in the morning go down 3,4 & 5 and out the shortcut before the regular run gets there? With the elimination of Thursdays run, this would only have to happen on Saturday morning. Saturday afternoon the group could wait at the top of 5 for the tail and then turn around and go back down and out.

Is the Street Legal requirement still in effect? Last I looked it was, I am sure they thinking most will drive around on 89 and back to camp.

I think that it is worth giving it a shot, we all hate change but sometimes change is for the better.

What am I the only one that knows about Bowman Lake Rd???


You end up driveing on pavement for about 10 miles, 2 of which are on Hyw 80.



It's not as bad as it is being made out to be. If it is so important to stay at Meadow, then camp out there after the run. Haveing the base camp at Cisco will cut a good 1 1/2 to 2 hrs off my trip up there. I am sure it will be close to the same for most people.

sounds like change is in the air............

I still think the width-rules should be changed.....

and unless Cal-4wheel is obtaining a parade permit for exclusive use of the
trail, you can drive any direction on it you want....... you just gotta pull
over alot to let trucks go past.

--Sherpa

sounds like change is in the air............

I still think the width-rules should be changed.....

and unless Cal-4wheel is obtaining a parade permit for exclusive use of the
trail, you can drive any direction on it you want....... you just gotta pull
over alot to let trucks go past.

--Sherpa

From what I was told they cannot get a parade permit because it is a trail. The Rubicon is a forest road so Jeepers Jamboree can get one for their trip.

i think some of the changes are good and bad. It sucks bad for the green sticker guys. I like how they kept the width rule- we dont need all the buggys doing the trail with us. Its my personal opinion and I have some strong reasons for it.

i think some of the changes are good and bad. It sucks bad for the green sticker guys. I like how they kept the width rule- we dont need all the buggys doing the trail with us. Its my personal opinion and I have some strong reasons for it.

Not trying to cause an argument here, but could you explain why you have "strong reasons" against changing the width rule? I have a rig that would not be able to run the trip under the Cal4 rules, and have been working my tail off at WH3 for a few yrs now and would like to hear an honest argument against allowing rigs wider then 80"...... Not trying to start a war or anything, just want to hear the reasoning behind the comment :)

Just as an fyi a YJ/TJ on 10" rims is over 80"...ask me how I know :)

As for the changes to Trek....I will keep my comments to myself as I believe that the leadership of Trek is only trying to make it better, and I will give them this year to prove that the changes are for the better

This is from the Cal board this morning.

Here is more clarification on the issue from Sierra Trek Chair David Douglas:

Sierra Trek Update
A lot of questions and comments have been made on Sierra Trek 2008 since the announcement was posted a few weeks ago, the responses to some are below in no specific order.

Was there a committee meeting
The Sierra Trek 2008 planning committee is composed of Don Spuhler, Larry Calkins, Bob Reed, Don Klusman and David Douglas, The overall plan is based on comments and ideas that have been discussed by many people, not just the committee members for many years, but there was never an opportune time to implement them. As in any organization committees are started small to lay out a preliminary design and then other people are added as needed to come up with a final design.

What about a new chariman
A comment has been made anonymously quote: “It seems to me that if Dave Douglas does not want to drive into Meadow Lake on the dusty road we need to get a new Chairman”. We have been requesting people to volunteer for the position of Sierra Trek Chair and have gotten no response.

Are camping fees included in registration?
Camping at Cisco Grove is for Thursday, Friday, and Saturday night will be included in the fees. For any days before or after the event participants will need to make their own reservations. I will be trying to get a discount for any extra days.

How many camps are at Cisco?
Approximately 500, for Sierra Trek 300 will be reserved initially and more added as needed.

How many people?
Sierra Trek has been averaging about 1100 people which if all campsites are filled would be about the same for 2008.

New trails will need to be scouted out for the long wheel base and SUV trips.
This is an opportunity to offer something different for trails; the Bear Valley trail can still be used if so desired.

Staging may be easier but what about the return trip after being on the trail all day, then having to drive the return trip in the dark with a rig that could have unknown damage.
Inspection of vehicles will have to be done by the owners prior to going on the highway. How many people have inspected their vehicles before leaving Meadow Lake in the past?

How late is dinner going to be open for these late people?
Dinner can be started later in the evening and held until all people are in, holding dinner has always been done for late arrivals. Dinner in camp usually starts about 5:00PM this start time could be shifted to a later time so that food would not be held as long.

Who is liable for an accident on the highway for a vehicle that is still considered part of the returning group?
The vehicle owner is liable for all accidents on the highway or trail, which is how it has always been.

Non street legal vehicles
The question of non street legal vehicles getting from Meadow Lake area back to Cisco Grove will have to be discussed. A question that needs to be asked; is how did these vehicles get from base camp to the trail head in the past?


As can be seen from the questions and comments most have been productive. Because I had not stated that there was a committee that worked on the concept for Sierra Trek 2008 probably many people thought I was doing trying to force my views on the event. In fact one person did call me a dictator. Hopefully they now see that I am not trying to be that. The person who wrote that did sign their name. I have seen some comments that called me names, but that person would not sign their name; the result is those comments are deleted and nobody sees them.

Other points about Sierra Trek:
Changing the location will allow for different trips to be scheduled from base camp some of them could be, Signal Peak trail starting from the Indian Springs side. Loops of the Fordyce trail, Indian Springs and come out at Fordyce Lake, Fordyce Lake to Meadow Lake

For Sierra Trek 2009 it has been proposed that the Thursday run come back in a new format. The trail would be run backwards, from Meadow to Cisco Grove, with a limited number of vehicles initially.

Bars
The insurance company for CA4WDC has stated that no bars will be allowed and without insurance the events cannot happen. This will affect the income of trek but there is no way around the issue. Finding a new company to insure our events is difficult if not impossible since there are very few that insure motor sports, and that we can afford.

Final Comments
Sierra Trek has gone through many changes throughout the years and there will probably be more as times and requirements change. A lot of time and thought has gone into this plan and we hope that the membership will support the changes and give it a try. If some aspects of the plan do not work we change them and move forward.


_________________
Suzy Johnson
In Gear Editor
Site Admin

Cool, I got mentioned!!:D

(copied from my post on the Cal 4 forum)

Since my comment in a letter to Don Spuhler has been singled out, I'll post the letter here. With the current "clarification" I change my opinion from "one dictator" to "a few closed door dictators".



Don,


Is there ever going to be a meeting to discuss changes for Trek or is the way of Trek's future to have one dictator without council? The communication with committee chairs since the fire restrictions went into place has been abysmally pathetic. Many of us found out of the cancellation through internet sites ( not Cal4wheel's site!!) and that form of "keep them in the dark until I make the changes I want" communication is not for us.



There SHOULD have been an emergency meeting held as soon as the restrictions went into affect. Barring that, an immediate meeting upon the cancellation of this years event should have occurred. At the very least, a bulk email effort should have occurred to the committee chairs about the (potential) happenings and to gather input/suggestions.



We have volunteered for Trek for over 20 years now and it looks like, thanks to the Dave Douglas' 2nd reign, the canceled '07 event may well be our last. If this turns out to be the case then it will also be our last year with a CA4WDC membership.





Kimber Wheeler

Our Club discussed the changes, and we don't like them. We don't think Trek will be Trek with the proposed changes. Location, going to 2 meals, etc.

However, we do understand how difficult it is to find volunteers theses days. We attribute this to the demanding pace of life we all have to deal with. Family and work come first, and many are not going to sacrifice the time with family to volunteer when there is so little of it available due to a demanding job.

So, with that said, my hats off to all who do put in the time, because they are sacrificing to do so. So while we will voice our opinions, and maybe they will have an effect, we will live with what those who do step up decide.

From there we will decide if we want to participate or not.

For clarification.

I understand "SOME" of the changes. Some of them are simply, in my opinion, lazy thinking and "giving up.' (perhaps Camo was right!?:eek:)

I won't "cotton" being uninformed when I'm supposed to be a contributing factor of an event. In years past most major changes have been put on the floor at a Trek meeting as a motion. A second followed and a vote of the chairpersons then took place. If a specific chair wasn't there to cast their opinion into the discussion and subsequently place a vote, then that's how the cookie crumbles.

Some things can't be helped. If insurance can't be obtained for a bar, then there is no choice but to dissolve the bar. Very sad, but understandably necessary.

Unfortunately, it appears that though long standing volunteers do (or did) still exist, the "Omnipotent 5", dissolved those volunteer's input with their closed door tactics with little to no concern for the long standing years of effort by the very committees that MAKE Trek happen. Those very volunteers who have pulled Trek out of the fiery ashes and resurrected it time and again . . . . . . and would have done so again this time.:confused::(

I like how they kept the width rule- we dont need all the buggys doing the trail with us. Its my personal opinion and I have some strong reasons for it.

Well, I'm glad you're happy with it but I think it's crap! I've attended more that 15 Trek's and WAS a member since 1983. That all ended when the 80" rule was adopted! I guess my 85" wide YJ isn't suitable:shaking: Also, I really don't understand your "we dont need all the buggys doing the trail with us" comment. We vs. buggys? That's the attitude that has cost Cal4Wheel many members, myself included. We're all in this together, wide, narrow, short, tall ;)

Well, I'm glad you're happy with it but I think it's crap! I've attended more that 15 Trek's and WAS a member since 1983. That all ended when the 80" rule was adopted! I guess my 85" wide YJ isn't suitable:shaking: Also, I really don't understand your "we dont need all the buggys doing the trail with us" comment. We vs. buggys? That's the attitude that has cost Cal4Wheel many members, myself included. We're all in this together, wide, narrow, short, tall ;)


I'm with you cuz your tall, I'm short, the guy that introduced me to you is narrow and your axles are wide. We make a poifect set!!:D

Besides that you're just plain correct, but I was correct first!:flipoff2:

I'm with you cuz your tall, I'm short, the guy that introduced me to you is narrow and your axles are wide. We make a poifect set!!:D

Besides that you're just plain correct, but I was correct first!:flipoff2:

Tell you what pretty lady, let's go wheelin' like the old days and forget about all this drama :smokin:

Tell you what pretty lady, let's go wheelin' like the old days and forget about all this drama :smokin:

That right there is inspiration to get the Wench back out on the trail!! You'll be the first I call when she's back together and we'll drag Brian out to play!:D

To address a comment about "hearing about things" on forums and boards; I may have been the first to post about Trek being canceled and I started this thread. Although I am not an official Cal4Wheel source, I do attend 4 South District meetings a year and 2 Cal 4 Foundation meetings a year - as a minimum. I don't like to see my posting info quickly, as a negative. It is done to get the word out to people that may not get the info directly from Cal4.

I am trying to supplement the information chain, not point out flaws in the existing system. Suzy and the In Gear are stepping up with In Gear Bulletins, that reach us through emails and on the In Gear website. Even these Bulletins have to start from a "source"; Suzy is just the instrument that finishes the process.

To subscribe to the eNews: In Gear (http://ingear4x4.com/), then use the "subscribe to e-news" link.

Maybe someone (any volunteers?) needs to be the focal point of Internet Communication for the entire Association. We have had people do the "press release" side of things before but I don't believe that there has been anyone that specifically targets email campaigns and/or posting info on Internet Boards and Forums. Maybe a needed position? I don't know but I will start talking about it when at meetings.

As to other points, if "I" were Cal4 and I had ONE person volunteering to Chair an event, or possibly not have the event, I would lean toward supporting the changes that that person wanted implement. This seems to be the current situation and I support Dave Douglas and Cal 4. I always challenger people that if they want to do things differently, step up and take charge.

Several Club members (in the South) have expressed positive feedback about the change of base camp and lowering the overall cost for participation. No one has been negative about this. Once these changes are "experienced", there will probably be unexpected differences that cannot be foreseen; some good and some bad.

So far, I haven't made any of the North events but I hope to in the future. I also hope to meet more of the "North" people AT events and not just on the Forums and Boards. FYI - I have made a couple of house warming parties in the North District, I alway show for free food and drink :D

In years past most major changes have been put on the floor at a Trek meeting as a motion. A second followed and a vote of the chairpersons then took place.
Heck, the Standard Operating Procedures (SOP) as I was told were even more restrictive than that. Any substantial change (vehicle requirement was the last issu I elected to bloody myself upon) had to be announced in the first Trek Chair meeting of the year (so that the Trek chairs could take it back to their clubs and associates for discussion), with a formal vote on the second meeting of the year (with serious encouragement to start the discussion on the last meeting of the previous year)... and any substantial change to the-way-it-had-always-been-done was REFUSED if it didn't meet that SOP.

What the hell happened to the SOP?

Let me chase this confusion with a couple of positive statements:
* I have huge respect for the folks that I know well who were involved in this decision. I'm confident that good men spent good time considering this well.
* I will be a Cal4 member as long as the organization continues to lobby effectively for me, and represent me regionally in land use beyond what I can personally do myself.
* I will attend Trek '08 if I'm in the country

IMHO, there is still opportunity to have the emergency meeting that is fully required. I encourage Cal4 North District to grab this bull by the horns sooner rather than later.

Randii

Well, I'm glad you're happy with it but I think it's crap! I've attended more that 15 Trek's and WAS a member since 1983. That all ended when the 80" rule was adopted! I guess my 85" wide YJ isn't suitable:shaking: Also, I really don't understand your "we dont need all the buggys doing the trail with us" comment. We vs. buggys? That's the attitude that has cost Cal4Wheel many members, myself included. We're all in this together, wide, narrow, short, tall ;)

cause it's not a winch hill if you don't HAVE to winch :D hahah

http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b59/slmackin79/?action=view&current=100_1999.flv

83" wide and 72" tall :) Now if there was a max height requirement or a height to width requirement I'm thinking most of the normal trekkies would come in unsafe and rolled over :)

I guess it doesn't matter either way since I'm opted out anyways... I love the party at the end but I can't stand to be on the trail w/ most of the snootiness :D

The latest:

Written by CA4WDC
Co-chair needed for Trek

The next Sierra Trek meeting is scheduled for Thursday, October 18, 2007 at 7:30 p.m. at the CA4WDC office, 8120 36th Ave., in Sacramento. David Douglas is the Sierra Trek chair. Please note that the position of co-chair for Sierra Trek is open.

If you would like a copy of the agenda for the Sierra Trek meeting, please contact Barbara Kissler at barbkiss@aol.com .

The next Sierra Trek meeting is scheduled for Thursday, October 18, 2007 at 7:30 p.m. at the CA4WDC office, 8120 36th Ave., in Sacramento. David Douglas is the Sierra Trek chair. Please note that the position of co-chair for Sierra Trek is open.

Saturday's North District meeting was interesting, with multiple opinions from multiple people -- folks spoke up in support of the leadership, with others speaking against the decision-making process. Much discussion occurred both in favor and against the changes in dates and venues, and in the end, the Sierra Trek leadership in attendance committed to convene a Trek Committee meeting of all the Trek Chairs, to discuss changes before implementing them.

If you intend to have a say, I suggest you have it at the upcoming meeting. I heard compelling arguments for and against the change in venue and dates -- and we know which way the leadership wants to go.

I'll be there -- I appreciate the willingness to stop and discuss plans with the committee chairs prior to embarking on these significant changes.

Randii

The Committee Chair Meeting in October went pretty smoothly -- again, there were multiple opinions from multiple people, but the general consensus was to change base camp sites to Cisco Grove.

The good news is that there will be continued meetings to work through the kinks of the new main camp location. There are some cool ideas about different ways to run the trail, different layouts for main camp, and etc. If you want to see something go a particular way, STEP UP AND SAY SOMETHING... if you have a suggestion, share it, and be willing to pitch in to make it work, and your idea will be heard...

As noted before: I appreciate the willingness of the leadership to discuss plans. Leaders and volunteers COMMUNICATING is how this works. :cool2:

Randii

After running the trail on Sunday in one day without traffic and then having to drive back to Cisco Grove, this makes for an extremely long day. I bet half the people don't make it back until midnight.....

After running the trail on Sunday in one day without traffic and then having to drive back to Cisco Grove, this makes for an extremely long day. I bet half the people don't make it back until midnight.....

It will be interesting to say the least. It would almost make more sense to stage at Meadow Lake and run the trail backwards so that you are at least heading towards your camp site, huh!?

My concern is with the rigs that break on WH3 and beyond. Instead of just being able to drag them the last 1/2 mile or so to Meadow they will have turn around and drag them all the way back down the trail and out committee. :eek:

Could be interesting given the rigs that run drag......I'll bring the popcorn :flipoff2:

Could be interesting given the rigs that run drag......I'll bring the popcorn :flipoff2:

extra butter on mine please!:D

:laughing:

What was the reason for change again? The road from Meadow Lake to 89 seemed fine and well maintained a few weeks ago..

The Fire closer that caused this years cancellation was the catalyst. There has been idle and somewhat behind-the-scenes talk by the "powers that be" over the last few years to move the location. With the lease agreement for the event site property dependent on the very life of an aging owner (he's in his 80's) and an existing lawsuit by greenies against that owner, Cal 4 believed it was time to bail out and start over elsewhere. There were other suggested financial benefits in making the change.

NOTE: I, personally, am STRONGLY (huge understatement) opposed to the change and they are very much aware of my opinion. Unfortunately not enough people attended the meeting last month to prevent the switcheroo.

Why dont they come out and tell the world what is really going on instead of supressing information. There would be a lot more support and perhaps some ideas with solutions from the wheeling public. Cal 4 is beginning to act more and more like the government and the greenies.

What makes sense to some does not make sense to others. I haven't figured out if I'm one of the "some" or one of the "others".:laughing: But I know that After being hurled into the air on this issue, I am falling back to earth quickly and I fear that even dear, ol' Randii may not be able to divert my trajectory enough that I land on the side of Cal 4. For now I am giving them a chance with an enormous amount of doubt thrown in.:laughing:

[QUOTE=lttlbddy;7273663]Before you shoot them for "Bait and Switch", contact Cal 4 Wheel with your concern. If you don't want '07 applied to '08 with the new format, I would hope they would refund your $$$. If they don't, then you would have a legitimate gripe.

I have an e-mail from Robert Reed saying that they would process my refund. This e-mail is dated 9-24-07. Today is 11-23-07. How long does it take to process a refund? All they have to do is credit my credit card. They have all the necessary info.
I think I have a reason to not trust the organization.

Give your input for the next Trek PDF Print E-mail
Tuesday, 13 November 2007

The next Sierra Trek planning meeting will be held at the CA4WDC office, 3120 36th Avenue in Sacramento on Thursday, November 29, 2007 at 7 p.m.

This is your chance to offer input and become a volunteer on the committee.

Contact Barbara Kissler with questions at barbkiss@aol.com.

The next Sierra Trek planning meeting will be held at the CA4WDC office, 3120 36th Avenue in Sacramento on Thursday, November 29, 2007 at 7 p.m.
This is your chance to offer input and become a volunteer on the committee.
Contact Barbara Kissler with questions at barbkiss@aol.com
I'm kinda frustrated that I didn't receive this by email (I signed in at the meeting!), but thanks, Steve, for posting this up... and now I have Barbara's email address so that I can send her a request to make sure I am included on future mailings.

This is going to be a crazy ugly week for schedule, but I'll be at the Trek meeting this Thursday, and I hope other interested folks will, as well. I genuinely believe that Trek is open to change this year ... but if you have a change, you'll need to suggest it, champion it, and be ready to step up and implement it.

Randii

Me, I'm going to support the Association, the Trek Committee, and the folks who are helping out. Making change takes guts and leadership. I can't be there to help out, so I'm going to support those that are.

For sure it does no good to take shots at our state Association if you've not been in the game a bit, or to some meetings. If we shoot down our leaders, who will lead us?

Del

I'm kinda frustrated that I didn't receive this by email (I signed in at the meeting!), but thanks, Steve, for posting this up... and now I have Barbara's email address so that I can send her a request to make sure I am included on future mailings.

Randii

I caught this on the In Gear forum. I was checking out the new format In Gear and thought I would pop in and say thanks to Suzi and Cal 4 Wheel for the glossy In Gear. Pretty sweet. Maybe a new format for Sierra Trek can come through shining as well!!

Me, I'm going to support the Association, the Trek Committee, and the folks who are helping out. Making change takes guts and leadership. I can't be there to help out, so I'm going to support those that are.

For sure it does no good to take shots at our state Association if you've not been in the game a bit, or to some meetings. If we shoot down our leaders, who will lead us?

Del

You mean I can't spot you through the squeeze and ruin another fender for ya??? :flipoff2:

What are you doing wasting time on the computer?

You should be out in the garage working on the rig so you'll be ready for JV! That Atlas/driveline/shifters/interior/exterior/exhaust/etc/etc/etc isn't going to put itself in you know. Only a week and a half to go.

:flipoff2:

I was waiting for you to come by and install everything for me :D

Hey FOF guys, did you see that cool organization chart the FOE folks posted up for their upcoming project this weekend? Wow. Way cool.
Ok, Bret, less wrenching and more keyboard time for you in the future. :):)
Just kidding....

Del

Ha ha. This winter is going to see a lot of keyboard time!:D

I was waiting for you to come by and install everything for me :D


Can't. Remember, I'm old and your start time for rig construction is past my bedtime.:flipoff2:

Hey FOF guys, did you see that cool organization chart the FOE folks posted up for their upcoming project this weekend? Wow. Way cool.
Ok, Bret, less wrenching and more keyboard time for you in the future. :):)
Just kidding....

Del


By the way Del, I see what you're trying to do here. A little competition between "Friends" eh? Well it won't work. FOF is bad, rad and doesn't play by the rules. We are not like the other nice "Friends." :flipoff2:

Hah, just kidding (sort of.)

Tell you what. Come hang with Insomnia the weekend of December 8th at the Hammers and maybe we'll put out an Excel spreadsheet for the next clean-up. As a matter of fact, all the new Friends groups are welcome to come join the fun. A Friendly little comp. On the list for this time are the regulars like Outer Limits, Wrecking Ball and Back Door and this time we're gonna hit Bender Alley and Resolution. Maybe FOH too.

(This post was written in the spirit of Friendship and good sportsmanship. Any similarities to persons living are dead are purely coincidental.:flipoff2:)

Ok, I was just joking around but the more I think about it the more bitchin' it sounds.

Friends day at the Hammers.

Just don't hold us up. Rolo wouldn't like that!:grinpimp:

Come on and join the fun!!

Vodka bomb baby!:nuke:

You might just have something there Tinman. Wow. Put together a little quick invite and I'll pass it around. You might not get a big gathering this time because of timing, but hey, you might START something here that others can follow.

Friends Day on Fordyce
Friends Day on the Rubicon
Friends Day at High Lakes
Friends Day at Joe's Pub
etc.
:grinpimp::D:smokin:

and honestly, I LOVE this idea in general.
Dec. 8th is my club Christmas party (oh, did I say Christmas? YUP, I sure did). And Stac and I look forward to that every year. Our club hardly knows us anymore we're gone so much....so we want to be here for that one. I know you'll miss us tho.

Del

Joe's Pub? I like the sound of that.

I will put something together for you to pass around. This whole Friends thing has taken on a life of its own.:homer:

Thread Hijackers!!:laughing::flipoff2:

Or is that Friend Hijackers . . . .

or hijackers friends . . . .

regardless . . . . .

carry on . . . . . friends.:flipoff2:

Anyone one have highlights of the meeting?

Anyone one have highlights of the meeting?


Nutshell . . . . . logistical nightmare.

Food - Breakfast and Dinner with a possible Sunday Breakfast brought back this year. Lunch will be served from the snack bar where you can purchase hamburgers, hotdogs and such.

Bar - non-existant at any Cal-4 event from now on. However you can bring your own booze and the snack bar will sell the mixins ( i.e. marg mix and others) to you.

Trail - will be run in two parts, A & B. First part will be from staging at Cisco to the bypass below W3 and back to camp at Cisco. Second part will probably be from Cisco and directly into the bypass to go up W3 -W4 and out Meadow Lake/Hwy 89. The rigs will do one half on Friday and the other section on Saturday. Thursday will run the full trail in one day and be limited to a low total rig count.

Camping at Cisco - Logistical cluster as yet to be worked out

:)

Trail - will be run in two parts, A & B. First part will be from staging at Cisco to the bypass below W3 and back to camp at Cisco. Second part will probably be from Cisco and directly into the bypass to go up W3 -W4 and out Meadow Lake/Hwy 89. The rigs will do one half on Friday and the other section on Saturday.

It will be very interesting to see how this plays out on game day ;)

Nutshell . . . . . logistical nightmare.

Food - Breakfast and Dinner with a possible Sunday Breakfast brought back this year. Lunch will be served from the snack bar where you can purchase hamburgers, hotdogs and such.

Bar - non-existant at any Cal-4 event from now on. However you can bring your own booze and the snack bar will sell the mixins ( i.e. marg mix and others) to you.

Trail - will be run in two parts, A & B. First part will be from staging at Cisco to the bypass below W3 and back to camp at Cisco. Second part will probably be from Cisco and directly into the bypass to go up W3 -W4 and out Meadow Lake/Hwy 89. The rigs will do one half on Friday and the other section on Saturday. Thursday will run the full trail in one day and be limited to a low total rig count.

Camping at Cisco - Logistical cluster as yet to be worked out

:)

Interesting. Will there be Options to only do part A or B?

I'm up in the air about attending with the changes. Knowing what the options are will be helpful in order to make a decision.

For what it is worth, I have a few friends that are Registered BECAUSE of the change in Main Camp. They did not like the drive to the old place.

Interesting. Will there be Options to only do part A or B?

I'm up in the air about attending with the changes. Knowing what the options are will be helpful in order to make a decision.

Not quite sure. I know the registration fee is to include both legs (so far). You could opt out of a specific leg, I presume, but there wouldn't be a discount to do so from what I understand. I will bring this up as a point of clarification.


For what it is worth, I have a few friends that are Registered BECAUSE of the change in Main Camp. They did not like the drive to the old place.

. . . and I know people who aren't coming back because of the changes. Do my people cancel out your people and we call it a draw?

The true outcome of the changes will not be known until all is said and done after the event.

Not a big deal, to do just 1 leg. The big question is this:

Is there Catfishing at Basecamp :eek: ??

Not a big deal, to do just 1 leg. The big question is this:

Is there Catfishing at Basecamp :eek: ??

Which base camp? Mine or Trek's???:D

Nutshell . . . . . logistical nightmare.

Food - Breakfast and Dinner with a possible Sunday Breakfast brought back this year. Lunch will be served from the snack bar where you can purchase hamburgers, hotdogs and such.

Bar - non-existant at any Cal-4 event from now on. However you can bring your own booze and the snack bar will sell the mixins ( i.e. marg mix and others) to you.

Trail - will be run in two parts, A & B. First part will be from staging at Cisco to the bypass below W3 and back to camp at Cisco. Second part will probably be from Cisco and directly into the bypass to go up W3 -W4 and out Meadow Lake/Hwy 89. The rigs will do one half on Friday and the other section on Saturday. Thursday will run the full trail in one day and be limited to a low total rig count.

Camping at Cisco - Logistical cluster as yet to be worked out

:)








Kimber, just to clarify things..........

......Did you mean to say that they are considering running the trail from Eagle Lake Rd staging up to the escape route (Cisco) on Friday then on Saturday go back in through the escape route (committee trail) and finish running the trail through Meadow Lake?


Also are they getting rid of Star trek? Really I quit running the day runs about 5 years ago and only run the night run. For anyone who is tired of all the long waits that go with running the day runs the Star Trek was the only way to fly. Except when you catch the tail end of the day run at WH 4 or 5 at 2:00am.

Kimber, just to clarify things..........

......Did you mean to say that they are considering running the trail from Eagle Lake Rd staging up to the escape route (Cisco) on Friday then on Saturday go back in through the escape route (committee trail) and finish running the trail through Meadow Lake?

That's the basic idea, in a nutshell, that is out there. The trail will start at the campground entrance off of Cisco Grove instead of Eagle Lakes for the Sunrise Hill section. (at least that's what I understood to be the case). Although, all staging will take place in camp (or so it stands right now). There is some fine tuning that is going on of course.

Also are they getting rid of Star trek? Really I quit running the day runs about 5 years ago and only run the night run. For anyone who is tired of all the long waits that go with running the day runs the Star Trek was the only way to fly. Except when you catch the tail end of the day run at WH 4 or 5 at 2:00am.

Star Trek is gone. If you want to run it at night, your on your own there.

. . . and I know people who aren't coming back because of the changes. Do my people cancel out your people and we call it a draw?

The true outcome of the changes will not be known until all is said and done after the event.

I just wanted to give a little representation to the other side. We should all know that everyone would not be happy no matter which way the event goes; change or no change.

The trail will start at the campground entrance off of Cisco Grove instead of Eagle Lakes for the Sunrise Hill section. Although, all staging will take place in camp (or so it stands right now).


Star Trek is gone. If you want to run it at night, your on your own there.










Forgive me but I am still confused. I understand that they will do all of the safety inspections and then stage at the new base camp at the Cisco campground. But then what? Everyone will just go down the freeway to the Eagle Lake Rd exit and drive in the trail that way? Other than Eagle lake rd and Cisco what other way is there to start the trail? Unless they want to go up and over Signal Peek and then in the Eagle lake rd way?
Thanks for the info.


And by the way, I have heard that they have wanted to get rid of the Star Trek run for a few years now because of the low attendance. But the low attendance is exactly what makes it so special. It never made any sense to me why it would be a problem to have Star trek, its all volunteer run and they have never had a problem getting volunteers for that run.

Forgive me but I am still confused. I understand that they will do all of the safety inspections and then stage at the new base camp at the Cisco campground. But then what? Everyone will just go down the freeway to the Eagle Lake Rd exit and drive in the trail that way? Other than Eagle lake rd and Cisco what other way is there to start the trail? Unless they want to go up and over Signal Peek and then in the Eagle lake rd way?
Thanks for the info.


And by the way, I have heard that they have wanted to get rid of the Star Trek run for a few years now because of the low attendance. But the low attendance is exactly what makes it so special. It never made any sense to me why it would be a problem to have Star trek, its all volunteer run and they have never had a problem getting volunteers for that run.

No, I wrote it out in a mess. My fault for not focusing and getting distracted in the middle of my reply. Your thinking is correct.

A: Stage at Cisco and start trail from Eagle Lakes Rd. and return to camp via shortcut.

B: Stage at Cisco and start trail through shortcut and out Meadow Lake/89.

These plans are in discussion by the Trail Committee and may change before things are written in stone, but it sounds like it is the most likely end result.


As for Star Trek, I have no knowledge base because I never ran that one. I know that one of the arguments for dropping it was work load for winch hill crews and the kitchen crew to feed the run when it got to camp. There was also a cost factor of that added meal that weighed in for those who made that particular decision.

Is the date set yet?

I don't see it posted anywhere on the Cal4wheel web site.

Second weekend in August (8/7-8/10).

Anyone got a map of all this Im a little confused. Never been to trek but my club is interested this year. Our concern in a couple of green sticker rigs one of them mine. I cant turn up a good map to get an idea of the drive back to cisco and from cisco to the trail head?? O and how strict is the 80" rule. Cause at 5psi im 82" and at 30 im right at 80"s ?? thanks in advance Ryan

Anyone got a map of all this Im a little confused. Never been to trek but my club is interested this year. Our concern in a couple of green sticker rigs one of them mine. I cant turn up a good map to get an idea of the drive back to cisco and from cisco to the trail head?? O and how strict is the 80" rule. Cause at 5psi im 82" and at 30 im right at 80"s ?? thanks in advance Ryan

Staging for both loops will be out of the base camp at Cisco Grove. No matter what loop you run, you will have to travel a hiway (either 80 to get to the trailhead or 89 and 80 to get back to camp.)

As for the width restrictions, you will have to hold on for a few weeks. Things may change for the better on that issue. It all depends on forestry approval at this time. Cross your fingers, we've been hoping for this change for years.:D

Awesome thank you for the info. Ryan

I'd love to go on Sierra Trek, and like organized runs, even if they cost more, because there is more support, and a little less planning needed on my part. It also gives me a chance to run trails with "experts" and often meet some really great folks. I ran the Rubicon the first time with some really great Toyota folks at the Marlin Crawler Roundup (I don't even have a Toyota!) and the experience was invaluable.

I am concerned about the width/length restrictions as well.. I have a K30, which is 84" wide, and has a long-ish wheelbase (131). It breezed through the Rubcon, and has massive body damage already, so I have no fear of it making any trail, but I wouldn't want to sign up and then show up and be denied because of an inspection. What is the stance on that?

I understand that you don't want people showing up in stock xtra cab longbed trucks and blocking the trail and all, but I'd like to attend this event, and am curious if I'd even be allowed.

Thanks in advance.

Dan

I'd love to go on Sierra Trek, and like organized runs, even if they cost more, because there is more support, and a little less planning needed on my part. It also gives me a chance to run trails with "experts" and often meet some really great folks. I ran the Rubicon the first time with some really great Toyota folks at the Marlin Crawler Roundup (I don't even have a Toyota!) and the experience was invaluable.

I am concerned about the width/length restrictions as well.. I have a K30, which is 84" wide, and has a long-ish wheelbase (131). It breezed through the Rubcon, and has massive body damage already, so I have no fear of it making any trail, but I wouldn't want to sign up and then show up and be denied because of an inspection. What is the stance on that?

I understand that you don't want people showing up in stock xtra cab longbed trucks and blocking the trail and all, but I'd like to attend this event, and am curious if I'd even be allowed.

Thanks in advance.

Dan

Currently a motion to " . . . RETAIN THE 71” MAXIMUM WIDTH OF THE BODY AND DISPENSE WITH THE WHEEL BASE REQUIREMENT AND THE OVERALL WIDTH REQUIREMENT" has been approved.

ONLY . . .
REPEAT: Only if forestry officials approve of two bypasses that have been recommended for vehicles outside the restrictions that existed before the approved changes.


Right now we are waiting for the forestry to weigh in. If they (forestry) say no, the restrictions will go back into place as they have been for years.

ONLY . . .
REPEAT: Only if forestry officials approve of two bypasses that have been recommended for vehicles outside the restrictions that existed before the approved changes.


Any chance you know where these are?

Only if forestry officials approve of two bypasses that have been recommended for vehicles outside the restrictions that existed before the approved changes.
Please note that this discussion quoted from the minutes implies that restrictions actually do exist -- not sure that is the case. USFS has three options, really: Yes, No, and Don't-Care. Anything but "No" allows this motion to proceed.

Keith, the two 'bypasses' mentioned in the meeting were:
* squeeze rock, right near the committee crossing
* winch hill 3 bypass out of the slot
Neither IMHO, is a big deal -- Trek has made use of these routes for years without problems from USFS. That's my opinion, though... USFS gets the final say. Cal4 is working with the forest service to obtain that say.

Watch and wait -- hopefully there will be an update by the meeting on 2/28/2008.

Randii

Thanks for the clarification Randy and I had figured those were the 2 spots.

Funny they mention 3 though. Trek has been sending people on that bypass ever since I can remember. Get the choice at the bottom of the hill, squeeze on the right bypass on the left.

I would be surprised if the FS had an issue with either.

I know what you mean.... thus, I hope that it is a simple matter to have USFS say this is a non-issue. As noted, both have seen heavy use at the event.

I don't recall the Winch Hill 3 bypass being there in '96... I think it was punched in during the late 90's, but has definitely seen steady traffic since. As for the squeeze 'bypass' -- that's been in use as long as folks have been coming in on the committee crossing, since it basically completes a triangle (squeeze, down to the river one way, down to the river the other way).

We've put the right foundation in place... now we wait on the right decision. :grinpimp:

Randii

Currently a motion to " . . . RETAIN THE 71” MAXIMUM WIDTH OF THE BODY AND DISPENSE WITH THE WHEEL BASE REQUIREMENT AND THE OVERALL WIDTH REQUIREMENT" has been approved.

ONLY . . .
REPEAT: Only if forestry officials approve of two bypasses that have been recommended for vehicles outside the restrictions that existed before the approved changes.


Thanks! Unfortunately, I think stock chevy width is more than 71 inches, so I guess I'd be out anyway? I know that lug to lug, I am almost exactly 7 feet wide. And the tires don't stick out 6 inches on each side, I don't think?

Edit: I just measured, and it is about 80" wide, not counting mirrors. Maybe a little skinnier depending which dent you measure to...

So am I out no matter what?

-Dan

Thats the pits Dan, I may be in the same spot as you as me and others are going to have it ruff. I think we are going to go up a few times this summer, on a non organized run, with a few of my friends( some of the zombies). O by the way this is Ryan I camp below you at mcr6 in the exod sami. So I will let you know when..

are you guys refering to outside tire to outside tire? if so who would be able to run the trail?

The dimension being discussed for Trek is BODY WIDTH, which is generally entirely separate from wheel, tire, or axle width.

Randii

dang, cal4wheel web site sucks..

http://www.cal4wheel.com/sierratrek/2007/trek.html

I was curious about the runs and clicked to find.. a dead link. Horrid page..

I foresee a lot of people not in trek coming to hang out. Not a big deal I guess, I might be one of em ;)

BTW from the page

71” maximum width of body, cage, and/or non-flexible flares

80” maximum overall width sidewall to sidewall

122” maximum wheelbase

I foresee a lot of people not in trek coming to hang out. Not a big deal I guess, I might be one of em ;)

Thats not all that unusual. Come by WH3 and have a beer :smokin:

are you guys refering to outside tire to outside tire? if so who would be able to run the trail?

RETAIN THE 71” MAXIMUM WIDTH OF THE BODY AND DISPENSE WITH THE WHEEL BASE REQUIREMENT AND THE OVERALL WIDTH REQUIREMENT"

:smokin:

dang, cal4wheel web site sucks..

http://www.cal4wheel.com/sierratrek/2007/trek.html

BTW from the page

71” maximum width of body, cage, and/or non-flexible flares

80” maximum overall width sidewall to sidewall

122” maximum wheelbase

That is still on the web site because the approved motion requires Forestry acquiescence before the changes are official.

Technically, those rules still exist. However, as stated earlier in the thread, they will hopefully change once forestry is contacted.:D

Thats the pits Dan, I may be in the same spot as you as me and others are going to have it ruff. I think we are going to go up a few times this summer, on a non organized run, with a few of my friends( some of the zombies). O by the way this is Ryan I camp below you at mcr6 in the exod sami. So I will let you know when..

Ryan, I remember you from MCR. :) Sounds like no Sierra Trek for me. Which is OK, I suppose. I kinda ask for it by Wheeling a Fullsize, right? My main goal in this thread was to understand the REAL rules (which I think I have) so I don't show up with a truck, ready to run, and get sent home....

Let me know when you go this summer. Maybe I can make it up as well.

-Dan

Another year w/o wheeling sucks, what are the sport utility runs like? I'd still like to just camp with my son up there.

Another year w/o wheeling sucks, what are the sport utility runs like? I'd still like to just camp with my son up there.

They are "scenic" in nature. We are camping at the lake (not base camp.)

The Sierra Trek committee approved in concept removal of the wheelbase and overall width requirements, with the sole remaining requirement assigned to body width. Final approval required a consult with the Forest Service to check interpretation of the permit...

The jury is in, and after checking that the Winch Hill 3 bypass and the Squeeze Rock bypass were both in the Travel Management inventory, Jeff Wylie and Joe Chavez said they had no problem with using these existing two bypasses.

Good news indeed... let's reward this flexibility by registering for Cal4's Sierra Trek.

Randii

Good to see some changes getting applied to better fit "modern" vehicle dimensions.

Good to see some changes getting applied to better fit "modern" vehicle dimensions.
Yes, and I'll go further and say that the folks in the meetings were interested in THAT exact thing -- building broader appeal into the event. I'm encouraged by the willingness to change that this demonstrates, and hope that event participation ramps accordingly.

I'd like to thank the Academy... :flipoff2:
:laughing: No, seriously, this wouldn't have gone through without support in meetings from Kimber, Jacquelyne, and John, or an openness to discussion from both the front of the room (Trek Chair and officers), the other chairpeople in the room with us, and side discussions with Cal4 office staff, natural resource consultants, and Cal4 officers. Thanks for all the hard work and support to help open the event to most all the vehicles that regularly run the trail!

Randii

Yes, and I'll go further and say that the folks in the meetings were interested in THAT exact thing -- building broader appeal into the event. I'm encouraged by the willingness to change that this demonstrates, and hope that event participation ramps accordingly.

I'd like to thank the Academy... :flipoff2:
:laughing: No, seriously, this wouldn't have gone through without support in meetings from Kimber, Jacquelyne, and John, or an openness to discussion from both the front of the room (Trek Chair and officers), the other chairpeople in the room with us, and side discussions with Cal4 office staff, natural resource consultants, and Cal4 officers. Thanks for all the hard work and support to help open the event to most all the vehicles that regularly run the trail!

Randii

Randii deserves most of the thanks since he floored to motion to begin with. I am just a supporting cast member . . . .:D

It's about time Cal 4 opens it's doors to the peeps that use the trails more than the rest of us.:D

The Sierra Trek committee approved in concept removal of the wheelbase and overall width requirements, with the sole remaining requirement assigned to body width. Final approval required a consult with the Forest Service to check interpretation of the permit...

The jury is in, and after checking that the Winch Hill 3 bypass and the Squeeze Rock bypass were both in the Travel Management inventory, Jeff Wylie and Joe Chavez said they had no problem with using these existing two bypasses.

Good news indeed... let's reward this flexibility by registering for Cal4's Sierra Trek.

Randii

This is great news! It'll allow folks like myself to sign up for Trek once again. I applaud those that worked so hard to push this issue with the Trek committee and the committee itself for being open minded and applying some common sense to the regulation.

Cheers to all involved :beer:

. . . It'll allow folks like myself to sign up for Trek once again. . . .


Yummmmmmm . . . . . :D:evil:

Make sure you come see me at Fridays Staging!:grinpimp:

speaking of trek and all. has anyone looked at the big bbq trailor?. i was told that it is in "unsafe" order. (witch i think is a total crock of shit)

This is great news! It'll allow folks like myself to sign up for Trek once again.
Excellent --- and not just you, Mark (as I know you'll probably be prepping for another event about that time), but wide and long folks are welcome to pitch in as event volunteers, as well.

Randii (shoot, I guess that makes me skinny and short?)

speaking of trek and all. has anyone looked at the big bbq trailor?. i was told that it is in "unsafe" order. (witch i think is a total crock of shit)
IIRC, it needed to be unloaded to receive some welding repair. I'm not sure if that has happened yet (it definitely is not unloaded at this time, but may have been fixed and reloaded?). In any case, there will be a work party in June and the right people are aware of this, so it will still likely get done.

It better... I want tri-tip, not cold-cuts! :D

Randii

It better... I want tri-tip, not cold-cuts! :D

Randii

Where you been for the last . . . .. oh say, 5ish years??? Tri-tip is bah-bye. It's been roast beef for wrong time, Charlie!

yuh Dork

Randii deserves most of the thanks since he floored to motion to begin with. I am just a supporting cast member . . . .:D

It's about time Cal 4 opens it's doors to the peeps that use the trails more than the rest of us.:D


X2!

Thanks Randii :D


(even tho HUMMERS didn't make the cut.....yet:D )

It's a huge victory for built and greensticker rigs.....now everyone (well almost) can sign up for Sierra Trek!

We all know what happens to Hummers on the trail. :D

Ummm... they drive safely across the high-water crossings, while Jeeps wash downstream and Land Cruisers threaten to? :flipoff2: :laughing: :flipoff2:

Ummm... they drive safely across the high-water crossings, while Jeeps wash downstream and Land Cruisers threaten to? :flipoff2: :laughing: :flipoff2:

My Jeep has never "washed downstream" . . . . :flipoff2:

Where you been for the last . . . .. oh say, 5ish years??? Tri-tip is bah-bye. It's been roast beef for wrong time, Charlie!

yuh Dork
The last three years that I know of Tri-tip has been served for Fri night dinner

I'd like to thank Randy as well. I am amazed at all he does for both the Rubicon and ST. In fact, I have a message on my phone right now from him I have to answer and I think it's about this very thing. Sorry I didn't get to it that day Randy. I've been in Terxas taking computer training in estimating stuff (my day job.)

I promise I'll get to it today.:D

The last three years that I know of Tri-tip has been served for Fri night dinner


:laughing::laughing:

Your in camp friday night? Lucky dog!!!:D

I appreciate the thanks, but this idea to relax the requirements really has been a team effort for years, and is just a drop in the bucket of the larger team that gears up to put Sierra Trek on every year. Did I mention that Trek has some committees that still need clubs/groups to volunteer for them? :grinpimp:

...and yes, Brett -- that phone message is about this. :D No rush, no worries.

Randii

I appreciate the thanks, but this idea to relax the requirements really has been a team effort for years, and is just a drop in the bucket of the larger team that gears up to put Sierra Trek on every year. Did I mention that Trek has some committees that still need clubs/groups to volunteer for them? :grinpimp:

...and yes, Brett -- that phone message is about this. :D No rush, no worries.

Randii


Dude, just because you spell your on sreen name with two "ii's" does not mean my name is BretT. Bret Bret Bret, how fawkin hard is that? (Don't worry about it. It's a constant battle. Bret, Bart, Brad, Greg, Bert, Dave (go figure!,) Brat (??!!)

Ha ha, I'll give you a call this evening.

ok i am the cal4wheel quartermaster. and have been left out of the loop on all the trailors that need repairs.. so let me know when in june and i will bring a welder down and i will get the trailor brakes for it as well.

I'll try to get it right, Brettttttttttt. :p
I actually thought about the spelling, and thought I remembered different, but just jammed it out anyway. I shoulda gone with my first instinct!

sami86, I'll ask a few more questions and get in touch with you -- I'm pretty sure this is just a couple crossed wires in communication. Once we connect the good intentions and grapevine with the actual quartermaster, this'll sort itself out.

Randii

ok well i was the quartermaster apointed by cal4wheel at the 2007 convention so i guess i just wont deal with it..

speaking of trek and all. has anyone looked at the big bbq trailor?. i was told that it is in "unsafe" order. (witch i think is a total crock of shit)

ok well i was the quartermaster apointed by cal4wheel at the 2007 convention so i guess i just wont deal with it..

There was some discussion of a problem with "a" trailer at Convention. Don Spuhler (who has been sick) is supposed to talk to you about it.

I am not sure if this is the bbq trailer or not but the problem was discovered at the Winter Fun event.

Steve G

Did I mention that Trek has some committees that still need clubs/groups to volunteer for them? :grinpimp:
I've asked the Event Chair for a listing of open committees...

Updated List of Open Committees:
* Raffle Committee (lots of good connections already made, some prizes available from last year, and corporate partners are ready -- need a club to manage the logistics and bring it all together)
* Apparel - clothing/shirts/etc.
* In-camp activities (adult games)
* Friday Breakfast
* Sunday Breakfast
* Intermediate Trail (formerly known as Long Wheelbase)
* Winch Hill 5 crew -- great camping at Meadow Lake, BTW, but you'll be a ways away from main camp
Commitees will be killed by June 30 if not staffed... more volunteers sooner would be better!!!!

Stepping up as volunteers is not required, but sure would be a great way to show support for the event that is now open to most all sizes of vehicles. How about it, wide-loads, or long-loads... are you game?

Randii

How about it, wide-loads, or long-loads... are you game?

Randii

HEY NOW,ARE YOU CALLING ME A WIDE LOAD????? :laughing::laughing:

Just your bumpers, honey! :flipoff2:

Randii (making it worse)

If I understand correctly, other than the big fire in the main campground, this campground does not allow ground fires.

So plan ahead and come up with a clothes-washer drum, patio fire-pit, or some other way to stay toasty!

Randii

Just for clarifacation. Fullsize rigs are now allowed? eg what are the exact rules conserning width?

Just for clarifacation. Fullsize rigs are now allowed? eg what are the exact rules conserning width?

No limit (within reason of course) on Axle width and Wheel Base. The only remaining restriction is Body Width - no more than 71".

No limit (within reason of course) on Axle width and Wheel Base. The only remaining restriction is Body Width - no more than 71".

Body width is the only limitation? So if your rig is 89" wide from the external tread of the wheel to wheel, this is ok?

Body width is the only limitation? So if your rig is 89" wide from the external tread of the wheel to wheel, this is ok?
That's exactly right. Register away!

Randii

The drought does not bode well for the trail runs. I fear we will have a repeat of last year, in that regard. At least the event will stand true at the Cisco campgrounds even if the organizers can't hold the trail runs should Forestry close the trails again.


http://www.my58.com/news/16625173/detail.html

http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8547142&nav=menu113_5

No limit (within reason of course) on Axle width and Wheel Base. The only remaining restriction is Body Width - no more than 71".

Wow, are you sure about that!!! I'm 69" wide and my tires are 84" This sounds like fun. Oh wait, my door handles, sliders, other items might stick out a bit:flipoff2: Does any one know exactly how they measure, so I can check my junk. Since I'm so close to the 71" rule, I want to be sure.

I saw Bebe this past weekend with her rig figuring out if she had to shave an inch off the width to meet the requirement. So it might be a big deal if your tires are out there too far. :smokin:
Del

tire width requirement stuff is gone. Body width still applies.

If you have any question about legality I would contact the event chair

Wow, are you sure about that!!! I'm 69" wide and my tires are 84" This sounds like fun. Oh wait, my door handles, sliders, other items might stick out a bit:flipoff2: Does any one know exactly how they measure, so I can check my junk. Since I'm so close to the 71" rule, I want to be sure.


It is the widest point of the vehicle. My H3 would make the cut if I had no exo on it.

You can contact me (PM) about running with a special group :smokin: for Sierra Trek.

Both axle width and length are no loger restricted, within reason, Randii still can't wheel his super big monster truck on the trek.

Both axle width and length are no loger restricted, within reason, Randii still can't wheel his super big monster truck on the trek.
I used my 3/4-ton Dodge Diesel Crew Cab as an example of what's not 'within reason.' :p

Randii

I used my 3/4-ton Dodge Diesel Crew Cab as an example of what's not 'within reason.' :p

Randii

Not to mention the rigs driver . . . :flipoff2:

It is the widest point of the vehicle. My H3 would make the cut if I had no exo on it.

You can contact me (PM) about running with a special group :smokin: for Sierra Trek.

Both axle width and length are no loger restricted, within reason, Randii still can't wheel his super big monster truck on the trek.

Thanks, need to look into getting the time off. I'm 69" if you measure my bumper which is about 2" wider then the body, but my rock slider might be 2" wider then then the bumper, will need to measure again.

I used my 3/4-ton Dodge Diesel Crew Cab as an example of what's not 'within reason.' :p

Randii

Not to mention the rigs driver . . . :flipoff2:

Ouch!!

With all the drought conditions and the out of control fires I wonder if the FS plans to shut the trails again this summer. The Nevada County fairgrounds have been turned into a Field Station for the fire control efforts. Bowman Lake is burning and this year is even more dry than last year... this does not bode well..

With all the drought conditions and the out of control fires I wonder if the FS plans to shut the trails again this summer. The Nevada County fairgrounds have been turned into a Field Station for the fire control efforts. Bowman Lake is burning and this year is even more dry than last year... this does not bode well..

This (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8414800&postcount=30) will tell you about conditions as of this week & predictions for the next few....

Taken from here. (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=694565)

Maybe just a tad early but, has anybody received their registration packets yet?

Maybe just a tad early but, has anybody received their registration packets yet?


They usually go out in the middle of the month.

Regs. will not be mailed Per. info I got from CA4WDC You are to pick them up at base camp.

Straight from the North District Meeting...............

Trek will happen NO MATTER WHAT this year.

So sign up folks, there is still plenty of room !!!

I don't want to.....

I don't want to.....

Do it or else......:flipoff2:

:emb:ok

Straight from the North District Meeting...............

Trek will happen NO MATTER WHAT this year.

So sign up folks, there is still plenty of room !!!


Will the H2o H3 be running Trek this year? You know you did promise her to do the trail with no snow on it.:p

Will the H2o H3 be running Trek this year? You know you did promise her to do the trail with no snow on it.:p


Are you kidding? :grinpimp:
After all the work that she and some others put in to getting the width and whell base restrictions lifted:smokin:

Are you kidding?

No, just wanted to make sure the recovery team was all ready to go. :smokin:




















































:flipoff2:

:flipoff2:HoochieMobeel Recovery Team
locked and ready.:flipoff2:

In my Cobalt. :laughing:

probably more reliable then the yota :flipoff2:

:lmao:probably more reliable then the yota :flipoff2:

Well, we all survived Trek 2008. The Forest was not closed, Smokey the Bear did not set a controlled burn through camp, and much fun was had by most.

There are a few things to adjust... but that's good. That means the event has a pulse and that people are interested enough to comment.

Some bald dude said this earlier:
... if you have a change, you'll need to suggest it, champion it, and be ready to step up and implement it.

...and for 2009, the challenge remains the same. If you see something that can be improved, step up and make it happen.

Randii