ok I have some driveline setup questions
my rear shaft is going to have 1410 ujoints and I would like to stay away from a cv if possible
I am currently looking at a 10 inches drop from the center of the t-case output to the center of the pinion, and both flanges are paralell. the shaft will most likely be about 36 inches. I have estimated the the angle to be about 15 degrees. Is this too much of an angle? where can I find an online article about setting up my angles?
I have seen this tablehttp://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/U-jointsinfo1.JPG

and am wondering what they mean by the 20 degree minimum angle for the 1410? anyone out there got an idea
thanks

call jess (onetoncv) he can explain everything.

Drew

This is tom woods chart that was in petersen's 4 wheel and off road- hehe- here's my rule of thumb if you want smooth and no vibrations then run a c/v with those angles- although 15 degree's is not severe it will cause noises called gear rattle when you let off the gas and float along at higher speeds in most rigs- and some vibrations again not severe- but as this chart says 1350 on it it is for the 1350 non c/v not c/v - and 20 is max - as for 1410 they never ran 1410 on a stock application over 12 degree's on automotive - so there's kinda a funny thing min angle- ? max 28 in my opinion in most applications- but now our 1350 c/v is good to 32 degree's and holds up well- maybe i can find that pic- hope this helps-Jesse:D

ah maybe this one-

jess,

have you heard of turning up the pinion until it points at the center point of the horizontal distance between transfer case u-joint and the pinion u joint. Then turning one u joint out of phase 90 degrees? does this work?

minimum universal joint operating angle: minimum angle needed to ensure the rollers(needle bearings) in the caps of the ujoint turn slightly over one complete revolution during the rotation of the joint to disperse lube to the rollers and to ensure the needles don't "flat spot" and brinnel the cross.
If the needles do not turn a complete revolution they will wear into an ovulated shape.
The larger the needle, the greater the minimum operating angle, in general.

I can testify to the strength of Jesse's one ton CV. I have done quite a few SBC400 full throttle-valves-floating-clutch-dumps both on and off the pavement, and his driveline laughs at it.

Originally posted by Lance
I can testify to the strength of Jesse's one ton CV. I have done quite a few SBC400 full throttle-valves-floating-clutch-dumps both on and off the pavement, and his driveline laughs at it.

If your valves are floating you are generating less than your peak power!:flipoff2:

ok I do not doubt the strength of the high angle shafts, and in fact I plan on cashing in on my free shaft for the front, but I was hoping to use the 1401 shaft I already have for the rear. I'm just trying to afford to get this darn thing on the trail, thus when you speak of this minimum angle needed aggro does that mean that at some point the 1410 should make it to 20 degrees? or is that the minimum angle that the 1410 should be run at?
Also does anyone have an answer to my question posted above? This weird type of set-up can be found on the front of some range-rovers, and since they are full-time 4wd why wouldn't it work in the rear?
anyone?
anyone?
hello? Where are the engineers to look at d-shafts in a new way???
thanks

here's a picture
would this work in the bakc and if so why not?

i'd have to say at this point pinion oiling would cost more than the 1350 c/v - but i have seen this in certain applications mainly school bus shafts where the angles are all weird- but not 4x4 stuff - Jess

I would think that if distance X was a vertical distance, it might be a vaible formula, but not if it makes the pinion point at the back seats.
That set-up should VIB like a muther f&%#er. The U-joints are to generaly match each other so that they cancel each other out. Similar to putting a shaft in out of phase. Having the angles oppose each other should make thing go REAL bad.
(based on theory) AKA 'works on paper'

Thanks guys I need to look at my oiling situation, didn't think about that.
damn these things are tricky!:confused:

putting the pinion up like that and putting the driveline ujoints 90 degrees out of phase is exactly the same in terms of vibrations as putting the pinion parallel to the transfer case output and running at the same ujoint angles. in terms of vibrations you would be OK but in terms of pinion oiling you might have an issue. I don't know there are several people running upside down axles claiming they have pinion oiling solved. maybe ask JR on this board how he did his 9"s

Originally posted by fcfred
here's a picture
would this work in the bakc and if so why not?

I tried this before and theoretically, it should be vibration free.
It wasn't.
I also tried c.v. joints on both ends of the d.s. It should also free of vibration. It wasn't.
I don't know, How much vib. can you live with (Tom Woods Told me)?

As far as the oiling, turning a std. rotation diff. up will not cause any oiling problems. The ring gear cartwheels more than enough oil to the pinion bearings.

My set-up works fine for a trailered rig, but don't think it would last as a daily.

I'll skip the oiling problems.

If you turn the diff up and match the angle (say +10 at the T case and -10 at the diff - similar to the pic only matched) at both ends of the shaft you (theoretically) will have no vibration. I've used this design in offhighway equipement to drive an auxillary pump drive. It's also used in some articulated machines.

If the yokes are out of phase you will defenitely have vibration.

10" drop with a 36" shaft length will give you a neutral angle of 16 degrees. That's pretty steep for a non CV shaft. I've seen references that listed the 1410 with a max operating angle of 30 degrees and the 1350 non CV at 20 degrees. The steeper the angle the life goes down in a log scale (approximately cubed).

I have to agree with onetoncv. You should run a CV shaft in the rear.