I was told about a i guy in the portland, OR area that builds custom suspension for FJ40s. Im wondering if anyone here has or has heard of anyone using any of his stuff. What it is a basic SOA and he doesnt connect the fronts or the springs. They are able to drop out the the hanger for more flex. Anyone else tired this and may have some pics. AND DOES IT WORK? Thanks for you help.

Originally posted by Tydes
What it is a basic SOA and he doesnt connect the fronts or the springs. They are able to drop out the the hanger for more flex. Anyone else tired this and may have some pics. AND DOES IT WORK? Thanks for you help.

I saw the "W" suspensions in "action" at Moab this year.

They are definately in "action" as there is a TON of movement in that front end.

Yes, he has no front shackle.

Yes, he has little channels where the front spring releases and then the channels guide it back into place.

No, i would not let him touch my suspension.

"W's" stuff works like a charm and if that is all you are after then he is the place to go.

If asthetics or "clean" looks are in your mind, then this is not the shop for you.

I think you are being a little unfair, Nolan! I don't know whose rig you saw at Moab, but I would suggest that it is not always appropriate to judge the work of a shop by one or two examples without knowing all the history behind those specific rigs, or without having knowledge of the other "stuff" that has come out of the shop.

It is true that W. Harold builds some crazy stuff. He also does some very traditional conversions, and from what I have seen those are done very well. Like you, Nolan, I would not use his shackle-less suspension on my rigs, but others seem to like it. And the air-bag suspension on his 55 is quite amazing. In my opinion, the sport needs builders who are willing to try different approaches, whether they are successful in the end or not, and whether or not they happen to fit into the asthetics in vogue at a particular time.

Tydes, go see for yourself. W. Harold at Over the Hill 4x4, 6941 N. Roberts in Portland (289-4547).

Originally posted by Medusa
I think you are being a little unfair, Nolan! I don't know whose rig you saw at Moab, but I would suggest that it is not always appropriate to judge the work of a shop by one or two examples without knowing all the history behind those specific rigs, or without having knowledge of the other "stuff" that has come out of the shop.

It is true that W. Harold builds some crazy stuff. He also does some very traditional conversions, and from what I have seen those are done very well. Like you, Nolan, I would not use his shackle-less suspension on my rigs, but others seem to like it. And the air-bag suspension on his 55 is quite amazing. In my opinion, the sport needs builders who are willing to try different approaches, whether they are successful in the end or not, and whether or not they happen to fit into the asthetics in vogue at a particular time.

Tydes, go see for yourself. W. Harold at Over the Hill 4x4, 6941 N. Roberts in Portland (289-4547).

Touche', I will take that lick, but I did see a fair representation of his rigs in the FJ-55, the red and white FJ-40 and 3 other rigs that he built.

He definatly has a great imagination and the stuff he builds works!

We just don't share the same appreciation for aesthetics.

We camped right next to W and his crew at Moab, heck of a nice guy, and that group think very highly of him.
Maybe the 4 rigs they brought there were extreme hard core...and all of the suspensions seemed to come from out in left field
There was one with air bags in the rear, a yellow FJ40, and a nice 40 with a stroked LT1.
Maybe it was just these rigs....but the work was a bit on the jerry rigged side.
If I were to use him I would stick with the more conventional stuff and leave the experiments to someone else.
W does know a lot about Land Cruisers, been at it a while, he had a spool from a 12 bolt Chevy, modified to fit a Cruiser axle.
Worked like a champ.
Butch

Originally posted by texican

There was one with air bags in the rear, a yellow FJ40, and a nice 40 with a stroked LT1.
Maybe it was just these rigs....but the work was a bit on the jerry rigged side.
Butch

BUTCH! :emb: Why thank you, its good to stand out as the nice 40! Yup, W' is a good one when it comes to knocking out a new idea. I would agree that the end result may not be the best looking (under the rig), but as Noland also stated it does work. W' will listen to what you want and folow through. Lot's of rigs in town with plain Jane SOA's that look no different than the rest. I am new at the Moab thing but it did take me up Rocker Knocker. However the next chalange, Rock Pile proved to much for the disconected rear. When my rig came down from the near vertical climb the springs opened up and started to alow the axel to go in to the rock wall and the body to go the other way. Nothing too bad but it did not help on this one chalenge. (That sucker was steeeeep! The rock pile was missing, it was just "Rock Wall!" And I got the video to prove it!)

For the Pacific North West it works great for tree wells, logs, and ruts, our kind of terain. Next year for just Moab I will fab a shackle that will conect the rear spring to the frame.

Thank you again for the chance to drive the Stars and Stripes, you got a great rig! Now to keep searching for some Shiner Bock, my local quick-e-mart has no idea what I am talking about!

Mark

I could UPS you a case if you really need a Shiner fix........
:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:
Butch

Originally posted by texican
I could UPS you a case if you really need a Shiner fix........
:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:
Butch

Na, I saved a Shiner Bock bottle cap. I just chew on that for a while, it still has some of the flavor left in the seal. I will have to work out a case trade with ya next year. Portland OR has the most craft breweries per-capita in the US. So we might have somthing you would like.

TYDES: The Cascade Cruisers are doing our June run this Saturday up at Brown's Camp, you are welcome to join us if you would like.

Mark

Dang, lets see that has to be......way to far to trailer up for that, however I did fly up to Minneapolis last winter to go on a snow run with Minn Toys....I'm stuck at the shop inside until Mom gets back off vacation, one of the reasons I have been so active during the day, once she's back I'm in the shop again, and it hit 94 here today.
I guess we'll have to meet again halfway, how about the Black Hills next summer?
Butch

any pics of these suspensions?

dave

Originally posted by texican

I guess we'll have to meet again halfway, how about the Black Hills next summer?
Butch

You got it! We will be back at Moab this next year as well. 94 is a bit hot for me, I will stick with the 82 it was here in Oregon today.

Talk with you latter.

Mark

Originally posted by davefj40
any pics of these suspensions?

dave

Here you go:

Another..

As you can see in the other pics I am only running the non-shackle set up on the rear end. Front is is on a Tara-flex shackel.
Here is the whole set up working on Rusty Nail in Moab this year. (video screen shot)

Hey i think i missed it. Well i didnt miss it but i was up there. I drive a MINI pickup. Yeah i know this is the FJ40 section. I might have saw you down at 76 getting air. No i wasnt the guy asking why you have that suspension. I was the little guy keep out of it. I would still like to see it in action. There were a few sweet rigs up there. I really like the Green FJ with the 38s. I think they were 38 and it had maybe a 350. Not sure saw it from far. Well talk to you later. And maybe see ya on the trail.

Originally posted by helocat
Another..


I dont get it:confused:

Originally posted by crawlin cruiser



I dont get it:confused:

If you look closely you will see that the spring ends that are supposed to attach to shackles are really free to move in and out of that peice of rectangular tube that is located where the shackele is......

The bottom of the tube is open and when the suspension opens up the shackle end of the spring is free to drop out beyound where it would were it attached to a shackle.

Wild stuff..that's for sure.

Originally posted by helocat
Another..

What's this tube??:confused:

Traction bar....

Originally posted by wngrog
Traction bar....

OH?!?

hey Nolan,
I'm with you on this one......... That is some strange shit going on in that suspension:eek: :eek: :eek: I think I'll keep my shackles.....

Oh, if that is a traction bar, I think he might be missing part of it.....:D

hmmmm it seems weird, what stops it from wrapping is the track bar and the panhard rod inhibits side to side movement.....

so it should work, ill agree that its not the cleanest or the neatest, but id like to see it in action, although im sticking with my shackles for a while yet!!

Originally posted by texican
I could UPS you a case if you really need a Shiner fix........
:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:
Butch


Me Me Me?????


;)

The only thing I would be worried about is how exposed the end of the spring is when it is hanging in space at full droop. Imagine climbing a wall with one wheel first and having the spring ram straight into it as you try to bring the second one up. Nasty. Same would happen coming off a big drop with the rear I guess. At least with a revolver or a buggy leaf the spring will arch up some.

Originally posted by BigRedFJ40
hey Nolan,
I'm with you on this one......... That is some strange shit going on in that suspension:eek: :eek: :eek: I think I'll keep my shackles.....

Oh, if that is a traction bar, I think he might be missing part of it.....:D

Yup that is the bar that was put on to get me through Moab, built quick but works. The new bar is still sitting half done on the welding table. I may even scrub this one and wait for the new JD4 bender to do a nice tube one. The first is still hanging in there. W did a great job on the track bar based on my time constraints. Time was short before the big trip to UT, since I yanked the tiny 305 and stuffed in the 383 one week before shoving off. A bit of an undertaking since I also worked a full week as well.

There is always a place for shackles, and times for strange sh#t! Some dude in Moab told me some old Mercedes 4x4's had this set up stock?? Unfound as far as I know. But the shackles'less set up is working for me, for now. I am sure I will get a bug and try some kind of new kind of strange sh#t some point in time. (coils? Air bags?...)

I am sure a few pepole looked at Wilbur and Orville's contraption and said "That is some strange sh*t going on". ;)

Originally posted by wendleburger
The only thing I would be worried about is how exposed the end of the spring is when it is hanging in space at full droop. Imagine climbing a wall with one wheel first and having the spring ram straight into it as you try to bring the second one up. Nasty. Same would happen coming off a big drop with the rear I guess. At least with a revolver or a buggy leaf the spring will arch up some.

Good point. This is why I run shackles on the front end.

Originally posted by Tydes
Hey i think i missed it. Well i didnt miss it but i was up there. I drive a MINI pickup. Yeah i know this is the FJ40 section. I might have saw you down at 76 getting air. No i wasnt the guy asking why you have that suspension. I was the little guy keep out of it. I would still like to see it in action. There were a few sweet rigs up there. I really like the Green FJ with the 38s. I think they were 38 and it had maybe a 350. Not sure saw it from far. Well talk to you later. And maybe see ya on the trail.

Tydes,

YA! What was the story of the other dude? He came off right off the bat as a little prick. :barf: :rolleyes: He has a few lessons in life left to learn. With me standing there I had already introduced my self as a TLCA, Cascade Cruiser member, so I sucked it up and stood down. :mad: I won't bad mouth someone if I am trying to represent our club or the TCLA, just won't happen-we are not about that. ANYWAY, you missed Todd's 85' mini he has the bucket suspension on all four. We had a great run all but the two rigs blowing pinions! (One FJ-40 2.5" springs and the other a home brew SOA FJ-55, both with shackles) It has been over a year with out a pinion lost, then two on one trip! And yes W's air bagged 55'ish rig made it up the back side of 7UP, it took work but he made it. I will try to post a shot one of the guys took of my rear springs open when I was about half way up before I took a strap. (they are at least 18"s apart!) I called for the strap after I did a two wheeled slide to the right with the other side a few inches in the air... I thought for sure I was going over. Got'a loose the hard top before I blow it apart!

HELOCAT were you able to get the pics of W's FJ? Really want to see that. Im going up on sat so if your up there ill try to be nice. :)

Originally posted by Tydes
HELOCAT were you able to get the pics of W's FJ? Really want to see that. Im going up on sat so if your up there ill try to be nice. :)

Here is the shot of my rear springs opening up big time. I think I need to run limiting straps! This is right before I almost rolled it on the back side of 7-UP. (Name of the trail for all non-local people). I just got too heavy footed with the 383 and the rig walked to the left then caught some traction somewhere, it was close! Sorry no shots of W’s rig in it’s current state. Pictures of that guys rig are like computers; as soon as you get them they are out of date. He recently installed his custom FJ-80/Rockwell 2.5 ton hybrid front end. He even modified the Toyota e-locker to a pneumatically operating unit. His new split case to crawler box is in as well. The rest of his sheet metal is now pitched so all he left is the cab cowling. (And that’s cut up!) Most of the crew is currently up in Naches WA, for the week. (Funny rocks/Moon rocks ect.) I passed on the run due to getting hit with special projects at work. I will PM’ya if I hear of any of our guys heading up to Browns Camp.

BTW, I am not worried about you being nice or not. You seamed like a cool guy. The other dude…Mr. Tall wheeling stories and equipment know it all is a different story.

Originally posted by helocat

He recently installed his custom FJ-80/Rockwell 2.5 ton hybrid front end.

:confused: I need more information on that.....WTF? How did he do this?

Lost and confused (again :D)

When i experimented with hypershackles they would open up like that when climbing and when I lost forward progress the whole truck would slam down. I tried limiting straps to no avail.

That is a cool shot!

Originally posted by wngrog


:confused: I need more information on that.....WTF? How did he do this?

That is a cool shot!

I have not seen the video from this climb yet, so I am interested in seeing how the power to spring opening is. I am sure they also open up like the ones you had, however I have not felt a drop once I get off the power. I don't have any photos of W's new front end. I will try to get some once he is back from the week long run. It is a rather cool front axel, relatively light weight but stout with those military knuckles! I know it took him some time to RD the disk brakes for it, but the last two times we have been out he has been loving the new set up.

The hill the photo was shot on of course looks nothing like it truly is in real life, as we all know this tends to happen. I got denied but gave it hell trying... W' did make it up but used every bit of his 532 Caddy to get up it. This is one of the local spots that is incredible!

Mark

Hey Mark you took the face of 7up with that setup? I dont consider myself to be a cautious driver at all, but it would take some major growing of the balls to take that obstacle for me yet. Did you make it? I have never seen anybody yet that will try it.

Ya know what I will try and read the whole post before I reply again :rasta: I would still like to meet you up there sometime. Do you go on sundays often? Thats about the only time I can wheel with people that have m-f jobs.

Dumb question, but does the tire that is dropped get any down pressure from the spring, like a 1/4 elliptical?

Hey Mark, you missed a great week at Naches! We ran a bunch of really cool trails all week. Mud, snow, rocks - lots of fun. We even did a rescue mission that put a few of us back at camp at around midnight - with stories of hanging a cruiser over a cliff (my cruiser) to strap another cruiser (Ed's) that was trying to get to the broken cruiser (Ron's). Very interesting and long night.

For all that are interested, here are a few pics of W's "cruiser". Sorry about the size. There are many more action pics, but I don't have my hands on them yet. This machine is amazing to watch on the trail!

http://www.icicomputers.com/img/naches/image023.jpg

http://www.icicomputers.com/img/naches/image031.jpg

And one more in the mud....

http://www.icicomputers.com/img/naches/image015.jpg

Originally posted by Kevcj
that was trying to get to the broken cruiser (Ron's). Very interesting and long night.



Now why don't I find that surprising! :rolleyes: For those of you who don't know Ron, he is a great guy, however he can brake stuff just by looking at it. On the Cascade Cruiser web site, www.cascadecruisers.com there is a video clip of Ron and James re-setting the bead on one of Rons gumbo mudders using a can of starter fluid and a match. Once the tire was back on, he moved 4' to then grenaded :nuke: one of the Birf. eliminators. (The stories go on!)

J-Bone, as far as I know it does not get any down pressure when the spring opens up.

Eric, going up 7-up thanks for the complement :beer: but stupid is a stupid does... I almost lost it, it would have been about five good rolls before the truck stopped moving if I had. You are more than welcome to join us, normally for club runs it is a Saturday. However any excuse is as good as any for hitting the hills! Sundays are fine for me, and yes I do work the m-f gig.

Kevcj, Yes I know I missed a fun trip. I really got hit with work and Work=$=parts/tools/etc. oh ya food and that other stuff. Thanks for posting up pics of W's monstrosity. And thank you for taking the photo above of my rig too! :usa:

Hey Mark this is Jesse. I rode in Kevin's cruiser most of the time at Naches/Manastash WA this week, we got back last night actually. The trails over there were alot of fun and it was the first time I had seen any cruisers on some real rocks it was pretty amazing. I have tons of pics from the trip and about two hours of video footage, some of it good and some bad. I should get the pics developed today. I watched a little bit of the video footage and it doesn't do justice to how steep some of the hills and rocks are.

Kevin has W's "bucket suspension" front and rear and he had no problems the whole week, in fact on alot of the trails his rig was so capable that the trails seemed to be to easy. But still alot of fun.

I have pics of your cruiser's suspension with the buckets and of Kevins suspension last time we were at Browns camp. Actually you posted one of them above (where your buckets opened 18")

I cant wait to get my cruiser running again and to start making it a little bit more capable considering its totally stock. So I can take it over to Naches WA.

Your cruiser would have done great over there, it seemed that a "low" center of gravity was a must do to alot of off kamber trails.
I'm still knew at this whole Pirerate 4x4 site so I'm going to "try" and post some pics of W's (bucket) suspension.

Well, I'm getting long winded here so take care and wheel on...

homegrowntoy (James) driving 7 up yesterday.

Originally posted by helocat


We had a great run all but the two rigs blowing pinions! (One FJ-40 2.5" springs and the other a home brew SOA FJ-55, both with shackles) It has been over a year with out a pinion lost, then two on one trip!

Mark, I met you guys that weekend just after the second pinion let go on the trail up to Airplane. I was the solo in the green Jeep.

James (homegrowntoy) winched his first attempt, aired down a bit more and just holeshotted it the second attempt hardly spinning a tire.

Ahhhhh 7 up :D , I tried yesterday without pushing it too hard (hard to give that good bump needed when you are that vertical) and was denied. Pics do no justice for that climb.

This pic gives a little better perspective.

Originally posted by TDW


Mark, I met you guys that weekend just after the second pinion let go on the trail up to Airplane. I was the solo in the green Jeep.

James (homegrowntoy) winched his first attempt, aired down a bit more and just holeshotted it the second attempt hardly spinning a tire.

Ahhhhh 7 up :D , I tried yesterday without pushing it too hard (hard to give that good bump needed when you are that vertical) and was denied. Pics do no justice for that climb.

Yup that was a tough run if you where a white Landcruiser. (both Pinion boys where white rigs) Thanks for posting up the photos great look shots. Good deal for Home-Grown. I plan on not giving up. I will try it again, but with out the hard top on!

Show how steep it really is. Todd i got some really good pics if you want them just Email me. Later



http://tydes.freehosting.net/images/7.jpg