Well it was good to see a fairly big crowd but we need to make that a HUGE crowd on Nov 1st. We need to be rational and find a solution everyone can live with. Currently you have to go through private property to get to the BLM land. I don't know the solution but I do know I want to be a part of it - so be sure to be there Nov 1st!

Saw Billy Bob, Dan Boggess, Steve H, Flashlightman, rockmycj (joe), and a bunch more people but I better see more on Nov 1st <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

Awesome, Just marked it on my calendar, Thursday Nov. 1st. COME AWN GUYS!!!!!!! We need to STAND UP and fight for these trails or we WILL lose them. Take a couple of hours out of your sooo IMPORTANT life and drop by. <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce.gif" border="0">

Now is the time to act

Amen, Brandon, we gotta show up.

I won't be able to make next week, since I'll be in Vegas for SEMA, but I'll try to pull together more talking points.... next meeting will be dedicated mostly to Norton Ravine, but cooperating with the miners, horsefolks, and believe it or not, the homeowners on the Norton parcel will help us when it comes time to work out solutions on the Pine Hill Preserve parcels (that include the existing trail).

BTW, don't be too worried about the existing ingress over private property -- substantiating a legitimate claim for public right-of-way shouldn't be too hard, given the infusion of some bucks for a lawyer. Let's see how this shakes out to see whether legal action is appropriate.

It was great to see all the new faces who were at their first management meeting... some of us have been attending these meetings for over a year, and the new blood is a real lift!

Randii

Randii,
I felt kinda lost even after the whole group thing - do you happen to have some history on BOTH of these cases so I can get some organized thoughts on them? I mean the only location I know of is the trail but public land is worth voicing your opinion on no matter what, so where is this other area?

randii, brandon, and whomever else may have info on this, would you please send me (via email) some background info as to what the issues are here. I would like to be informed in order to make any comments. I can not just show up to show up. Sorry I am behind the curve here. Please catch me up!

Thanks! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

I will try to summarize... that's a lot of writing, tho. Any chance we could just get together Sunday or Monday evening and rap this out?

I have the full BLM binder for the year's worth of planning we have done, with all the maps, as well... it might take about an hour to get a full idea of the parties involved and the process...

I'll still try to summarize shorter in words, but there is just so damn much involved... For this last meeting, I developed some 'Talking Points' that 'wheelers could use on these properties.
1.) Was that helpful?
2.) Any comments?
3.) Any more ideas?

This is *our* land -- PUBLIC land. We have a unique opportunity to engage in the management process, here. The landowners are certainly getting their wants heard... we need to do the same. As taxpayers -- that public land is OURS. We're going to have to continue paying taxes on it... so we damn well better retain the right to access it.

Randii

I agree we need more info/background so we can go in NOV 1 with the same plan and a solidified front.

What’s at stake? correct me if I’m wrong but I think its basically several thousand acres of public lands, and how they will be used/managed.

I felt like we made a difference last night <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">. Here’s basically what we did.
After BLM folk answered a few questions everyone in the room, 50 to 70 people, got into small groups and tried to work together to come up with GOAL STATEMENTS that would characterize each others vision of how the public land should be used. These goal statements will be used by BLM to form their DRAFT PLAN.
Me and boggus were seated with one miner and 3 land owners approximately my parents age who have lived adjacent to the area for many many years, anyways trying to convince them that "a gate is not a solution" and that "public land should be kept for the people and not from the people" was difficult especially sine i'v only been there once.


The adjoing land owners are pretty scared of a wild fire being started by late night parties and disrespectful clowns thrashing the place and shooting.

everyone needs to be there NOV 1

Originally posted by randii:
<STRONG>


I'll still try to summarize shorter in words, but there is just so damn much involved... For this last meeting, I developed some 'Talking Points' that 'wheelers could use on these properties.
1.) Was that helpful?
2.) Any comments?
3.) Any more ideas?


Randii</STRONG>


I found your sheet of info/talking points VERY helpful and informative, my only commet would be, if i could have only gotten them prior to the meeting day they would have been even more useful.

Thanks for all the time and effort you've obvisouly been putting into this.

FLASHLIGHTMAN

[ 10-24-2001: Message edited by: Brian Anthony Gutierrez ]

During the small discussion time there were a lot of homeowners getting there opinions heard. This is not good for the people that want to keep the trail open, since all of the homeowners that I talked to just want it shut down. The fouewheeling community needs to come to these meetings and voice an opinion. If we don't then we are powerless to stop public land from getting shut down. These meetings aren't just about Jurgens. They are about all public land.
We need to make a stand now and maintain our position. This is something we are going to face for the rest of our lives as taxpayers. Come Awwn people take a stand. It is bigger than most people realize.

just my incoherent .02
<IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

what time and where is the NOv 1 meeting, Shingle springs?

Next meeting is Thursday November 1, 2001
Location: Coloma Odd Fellows Hall
Meeting starts at at 6:30 p.m.

here are some links.
http://www.ca.blm.gov/folsom/sfa_plan.html

Read the next link. This is in phase 1, vision statement formation. We need more support to help sway the vision statement.

For example, my table wanted "NO VEHICLE ACCESS as the number 2 point" I had to get this ammended to show it was not unanimous, but it was 6 to 1.
http://www.ca.blm.gov/folsom/sfa_protocols.html

I didn't count the people in the room but there were about 100+ people there, and I'd guess 90 homeowners and 10 recreationalists and 4 or 5 miners.

The homeowners have credible and understandable issues, but their attitude is "just close it" which is unacceptable. We need solutions to retain public access to public lands and to respect the homeowners lawful rights.

We need to get the access issue resolved, or at least need a legal opinion.

- Dan

It is worth noting that the homeowners want it closed to public access... but they want to keep their gates.

Interesting concept -- they want full control over what goes on in public lands adjacent to their property... oh yeah, and they want those lands policed and maintained according to ther desires, too. All on the public dime. <IMG SRC="smilies/mad.gif" border="0">

One of the points I keep coming back to when I talk to a homeowner, is, "Respectfully, sir, I can understand why you want these things, but the only way to guarantee that land is managed in accordance with your every wish is to ***OWN*** that land... please remember that this is public land, managed by a public agency, with input from the public... and that includes me, a 4x4 enthusiast."

The easiest solution to this would be to have an inheld parcel there... anybody got a spare few hundred thousand? More realistically, is anybody buddies with the miners down there... they have existing claims, and mining claimants do possess limited but valid property rights...

Randii

Does Cal4wd have any stand on this issue??
If not it's up to us local clubs.

FYI I know there is a law that says a road traveled for some amount of time becomes public domain, I'll look it up in the survey books tonight..

minutes and related links courtesy of Flashlightman <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

Minutes (http://www.rivercityrockcrawlers.com/octmeeting.html)

I was hopeing to go but I was sick as a dog(even worse now).But I will be sure to make next thurs.See ya--the Fatboy <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0">

November 1st 6pm Coloma

just get informed and be there!!

Thanks to everyone that came out and voiced their opinion, now it is time to come out and get dirty! There is a work party planned for Nov3rd, click HERE (http://www.rcrc4x4.com/cgi-bin/LandIssues/BLM11_03_02/links.cgi) to sign up and for more information on the work to be done!

takin it back to the top..

Brandon, wherre is the meating going to be heald?
Thanks, Brian Wakefield

The meetings were last year in 2001, but on November 3rd THIS YEAR we need to show up and work like we said we would.

where is the meeting spot and what do we need to bring

Originally posted by rochog
where is the meeting spot and what do we need to bring


details and signup here:

http://www.rcrc4x4.com/cgi-bin/LandIssues/BLM11_03_02/links.cgi

Cliff notes from the link:

Nov 3 is a trail repair day to repair and / or build some water bars to reduce erosion from water running down the road.

Meeting place is at the beginning of the trail.

Meeting time wasn't stated. I'll guess between 8:00 - 9:00. remember it will get dark an hour earlier after Daylight savings.

Things to bring include, but are not limited to:

shovels
digging bars -- very good for the hard dirt
maddox or pic,
leather work gloves
eye protection (from flying dirt etc)

bonus points for:
- jackhammer and some means to run it away from power
- walk along type trencher.

I'll bring a six pack for anyone that shows up with a kabota or a bobcat. Heck, make it a 12 pack. SNPA, MGD, 7up, coke or pepsi your choice.

Waterbars take *ALOT* of work evidenced by the FOTR work done up on Rubicon-McKinney, so we can use all the help we can get.

- Dan

Buried in another string (Nov 3rd Local BLM Maintenance Work Day), Brandon states that the start time is 9am. See the string at the following link.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=87400


There are now two strings referencing the same trail maintenance/work day (double coverage). That should help draw attention.

Brandon I can haul your trailer for you if you still want to bring it

yep, 8am. I'll put up better directions soon, I have pictures of the major turns etc..

Check the link I posted, and if you can't make it please pitch in ONE DOLLAR there is a link from the main www.rcrc4x4.com page to donate, all funds go to rental costs for equipment etc..

I will donate what I can for a bbq and I am pitchin in for the raffle - please come help!

just to clarify this is NOT a fund raiser, what we need is HELP - but there are costs involved so if you can't help with your labor we would appreciate any help we can get. BLM will be there, let's show them what we can do..

Originally posted by rochog
Brandon I can haul your trailer for you if you still want to bring it

thanks :)

I got a 2 full day engineering exam this friday and saturday but after that I will be wrenchin every spare second so I can drive my jeep or my truck - both of which have been parked all summer :(