I know I'm new here, but it seems to me every time someone asks a question about anything, a bunch of turd burglars chime in with a bunch of wise cracks and nobody’s questions get answered.

Okay, here goes, I'm getting ready to toss my 4" Superwhipped springs in favor of a SOA setup (I know I should have never bought a spring under kit, but it got me by for a long time, and I made it ramp near 1000) I'm thinking of revising my shackle reversal brackets and buggy leafs to accommodate XJ Cherokee rear springs (52") at all corners. Should be pretty straight forward, but for the rear, I'm thinking of jumping to the next level. My thoughts are swinging towards a double shackled leaf setup with a radius link-type setup, I think the leaf springs will provide enough axle location to allow me to use a kind of ladder bar type setup, only with the lower leg of the ladder bar being wristed and adjustable for length to allow for pinion angle adjustments. I plan to use Lou Ferger's Racing clamp on spring pads, so I can just loosen the pads and u bolts to make pinion angle adjustments.

I tried to read most of the "suspension God" thread, but it had so much bashing it was hard to get anything out of it. Definitely a lot of fellas that know a lot of stuff, but can't type or spell, and can't stand someone else sounding smarter than they do.

Any real help would be greatly appreciated, any smart asses can go pee up a rope.

One thing ti think about is what type of terrain you are going to be wheeling in. Reason I say this is that with a double shackle in the rear, you are going to (most likely) have wheel hop when climbing waterfalls or any obstacle where you are going straight up. Just something to think about.

Originally posted by 4Bangler

I tried to read most of the "suspension God" thread, but it had so much bashing it was hard to get anything out of it. Definitely a lot of fellas that know a lot of stuff, but can't type or spell, and can't stand someone else sounding smarter than they do.

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: Yeah, that's what I got out of that post too...

Sounds like you are sort of heading in the right path...Bolt on kit to get you started, now progressing towards something a little more custom...nothing wrong with that.
The 52" sound fine too. However, my view on double shackle set up: Obviously, the springs no longer "Locate" the axle, the links do. So, the leaf effectively is only there for spring support. However, now you now only have one shackle hanging out to get hung up, you have two. Why go to all the work of doing this when you can swap coils in and gain the clearance too?


BTW, welcome newbie:flipoff2:

When you say "double shackle" are you meaning two shackles stacked on the same end or one shackle on each end?

Originally posted by 4Bangler
I know I'm new here, but it seems to me every time someone asks a question about anything, a bunch of turd burglars chime in with a bunch of wise cracks and nobody’s questions get answered.

Really, hmmm never had that problem myself. Are saying the members around here are rude and crass? I don't see the problem with a little humor in posts do you? Are you one of those people that have a problem with everyone but it's never your fault? Ever thought it might be your fault, of course not it's never your fault.


Originally posted by 4Bangler
....and I made it ramp near 1000)


Uhhh, a ramp champ :rolleyes:


Originally posted by 4Bangler
....I plan to use Lou Ferger's Racing clamp on spring pads, so I can just loosen the pads and u bolts to make pinion angle adjustments.

Do you own a welder?

Originally posted by 4Bangler
....Any real help would be greatly appreciated, any smart asses can go pee up a rope.

Your Welcome DAN :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

I'd like to keep leafs under my Jeep, mainly to eliminate the need for overly complex link suspensions, my double shackled leafs should locate the axle side to side good enough for my Jeep that doesn't see much street action anymore, and the ladder link setup should eliminate any wheelhop. I'm running a 2.5L, so wheelhop isn't much of a problem even with an SM420 and 5.38:1's. I'm in Michigan, but my heart is in the west, I put a tire on every rock I can find, and I'm about to build a rock course on my property because our DNR won't let us wheel in the abandoned rock quarry (http://www.thunderbayoffroaders.rockcrawler.com/rockport.html) a mile away from my place, too much environmental impact, how the hell to impact land that has been raped for the past 150 years? Doesn't keep us from sneaking in once in a while, plus I wheel on a lot of garbage. (http://www.thunderbayoffroaders.rockcrawler.com/rock.html)

Originally posted by 4Bangler
Any real help would be greatly appreciated, any smart asses can go pee up a rope.

But what if you get help from smart asses ;)

1) try the search feature. It really does work.

2) search for TOTW. There is some good stuff in these threads.

Here is one. (part of the "real help")

TOTW: The finer points of going Spring Over Axle (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32963)

anyway, I'm not sure how to pee up a rope. got a writeup? ;)

Oh, and welcome newbie :flipoff2:

I'm not saying anything about the members of this board, just the few threads I've looked at that seem to be clogged with nothing constructive. I love a little humor, and I laugh at myself and the dumb things I do all the time. According to my girlfriend, it's allways my fault, but that may be a universal woman thing. As for the ramp champ thing, not a champ, but pretty good for off the shelf junk, it doesn't mean a thing out on the trail, but it's the most fun you can have in your driveway, my buddy's Pontiac 6000 ramps a 67, and his approach angle is about 12 degrees, his wife was mad about the expanded metal rash on the plastic bumper, but we had a blast. How's that for humor?

By double shackled I mean a shackle at each end of the leaf.

No, I don't own a welder, but I borrow one everytime I need one, that's why I don't own one. I want to use the clamp on perches so that I can adjust my pinion angle. I don't think I would use them without some sort of anti-wrap device or link setup, seems like they would slip on the tube, circle trakers use them, but they run ladder bars.

Thanks for the real help Dan-H, that's what I'm looking for, and I'll try to do some searching

As for the extra shackle to get hung up on, depending on how much movement I will need to get out of the front shackle, I may use yet another circle track trick, a sliding spring eye attachment

http://www.loufegersracing.com/images/springslider.jpg

seems to me I could build a ramp in front of that pretty easily

Originally posted by 4Bangler
... my double shackled leafs should locate the axle side to side good enough for my Jeep that doesn't see much street action anymore,

Actually, it won't...The shackles allow too much give and your axle can swing back and forth too far.

Originally posted by 4Bangler
Thanks for the real help Dan-H


WTF am I..Chopped liver?:confused:

Think so? What do you think about the sliding spring eye deal, that should have less deflection than a shackle. Aw hell, maybe I'll just go full-on 4 link, my rear axle is a 9", so it's not like I couldn't weld a guzillion brackets on it during the trial and error process. I just don't like the idea of a Jeep with coils, seems wrong, I like the ride of my Grand Cherokee, but I think real Jeeps have leaf springs, round headlights, and flat fenders, that's why I went ot all the trouble of swappin on a bobbed '55 CJ-5 front clip, plus it gave me tons of clearance.

Originally posted by 4Bangler
By double shackled I mean a shackle at each end of the leaf.

No, I don't own a welder, but I borrow one everytime I need one, that's why I don't own one. I want to use the clamp on perches so that I can adjust my pinion angle. I don't think I would use them without some sort of anti-wrap device or link setup, seems like they would slip on the tube, circle trakers use them, but they run ladder bars.



Would you happen to have a link/number to where I could buy some of the clamp on perches? I also want them to make it easier to adjust the angles and such, but I'm still going to weld them on. It would make me nervous to think that they are only bolted around the tube.

Lou Ferger's racing (http://www.loufegersracing.com) - look under the online catalog, then rear suspension, and scroll down.

If you're just going to adjust them a couple oftime until you get everything right and then weld them, I wouldn't watse the money on the clamp-on perches, I'd just use conventional weld-on perches and crank the u-bolts real tight, maybe tack weld them, and do your checking. One of my club member drove his V8 Wrangler around with the pads unwelded for a month and a half on the street and they never budged.

I wouldn;t waste your time or money with the clamp on pads...I did and they did nothing...I had them clamped very tight and the u-bolts very tight and I was then going to weld them in place but at the time I didn;t have a welder so I had to get it to my bro-in-laws house about 2-3 miles away...not too far...I didn't get .5 mile when all of a sudden BAM...I jump out take a look and my pinion is pointing straight up...so there I am in the middle of the road doing repairs (I only took off the driveline and then towed it back home)...point being...dont waste your time with the clamp-ons...I ended up buying a welder so I could just weld them on at my place...the pinion angle is easy enough to set so I really dont see that as an excuse...:D:D:D

Cherokee leafs work well if you want to move your axle around since they are about 5" offset with the spring pin. I'm using them on the front of my SOA CJ to get more wheelbase. Do yourself a favor though, get a couple extra sets and cut the eyes off the mains and put them in. If not even more extra leaves than that. They don't support the stock main leaf worth a damn.

Cherokee springs have a 5" pin offset? Wow! I know there was some offset, but since I haven't found any yet, I wasn't sure, I was going to use offset plates and see what I could come up with, but 5" will make things a lot easier and won't kill my approach and departure angles. I might use 2" lift springs from Rubicon, the stockers look too reversed, at least on my mom's postal Cherokee, but that thing is whipped, I'm looking to gain about 2" static ride height over my spring under with fettucine-looking 4" springs.

I thought the as much would happen with the clamp-on pads, that's why I would only use them with the ladder-link type suspension I'm thinking about, and my junk gets changed around so much that I may reset pinion angle 2 or 3 time a year. I may tack weld the clamp-on perches whn I get things right, that way if I change something a quick bump with the grinder will have me back in the adjustment bidnez.

Originally posted by 4Bangler
I'm in Michigan, but my heart is in the west, I put a tire on every rock I can find, and I'm about to build a rock course on my property because our DNR won't let us wheel in the abandoned rock quarry (http://www.thunderbayoffroaders.rockcrawler.com/rockport.html) a mile away from my place, too much environmental impact, how the hell to impact land that has been raped for the past 150 years? Doesn't keep us from sneaking in once in a while, plus I wheel on a lot of garbage. (http://www.thunderbayoffroaders.rockcrawler.com/rock.html)

The Rockport quarry looks like some fine wheeling.

However, if the DNR says you can't wheel there, you really shouldn't. It's illegal and it's bad press for those of us who wheel legally.

And if you do wheel there, you really shouldn't be stupid enough to post pictures.

It's fawko moves like this that get trails closed.

I whole heartedly agree, and we don't go there anymore, but we are working with the DNR to try to get an organized run through there with DNR personnel to show them how little impact we're talking about. They hear 4x4 and think big mud tire burning out on every endagered wildflower in a 5 mile radius. Those pics were taken before we knew how serious they were about keeping us out, they bermed up some rocks that are real fun to play on, mostly to keep hilrods from dumping their garbage out there, it happens. Our local DNR have seen the pics, they never knew anyone would find driving around on rock entertaining, so we may be on the way to having a new venue open up, but for now, all we have are the memories. The local CO was also impressed that we were from an organized group and we weren't tearing anything up, so he only wrote me an operating an ORV on other than a marked trail, rather than a operating a motor vehicle in a prohibited area, $35 vs. $85 & 3 points on you driver's license. Would you believe the city cops kicked us out of the construction waste dump, but when I called the city manager, he said no problem, can't hurt trash.

Originally posted by Supergper
I wouldn;t waste your time or money with the clamp on pads...I did and they did nothing...I had them clamped very tight and the u-bolts very tight and I was then going to weld them in place but at the time I didn;t have a welder so I had to get it to my bro-in-laws house about 2-3 miles away...not too far...I didn't get .5 mile when all of a sudden BAM...I jump out take a look and my pinion is pointing straight up...so there I am in the middle of the road doing repairs (I only took off the driveline and then towed it back home)...point being...dont waste your time with the clamp-ons...I ended up buying a welder so I could just weld them on at my place...the pinion angle is easy enough to set so I really dont see that as an excuse...:D:D:D

I've got Lou's clamps and they work great--I've never welded them and they're standing up to 400 foot-pounds of torque... I keep MEANING to have them welded, but I never seem to get around to it... After reading your post, I'll probably do it sooner than later, but I don't think the clamps are nearly as bad as you're making them out to be.

Jake

it sounds like you want a lot of flex and if you do i'd throw the idea of leaves in the rear in the trash and put in coils. I did and i can ramp 850 on a 30 degree. your building a links anyway. i'm still running leaves in the front (soa of course)....but not much longer or until I get my wife a new rig so i can drive her tj as my daily.

At the rear axle try the sliding spring perches on the front and 'normal' shackle on the rear with traction bars, and see if you can make it work. I can't see any reason why it wouldn't. You might want to think of starting w/ ford radius arms when fabing your traction bars. I'd leave the front springs hard mounted at one end. Steering is Good.