Hey. I don't own a Toy now but I'm looking into possibly getting one. I'm deciding between a Toyota truck or a Suzuki Samurai or Sidekick. I'm hoping you guys can give me some opinions on which way to go.

I'm planning on making a pretty serious off road vehicle for mostly trail driving. I want it to be moderately capable on the rocks but I live in the midwest (St. Louis) so the rock climbing is pretty limited even though WEROCK kicked off the past season just a couple hours from here in Hannibal, MO. Mostly I'll be tackling dirt, trees and (rocky)creeks and most of that on steep hilly terrain.

I'll be starting with a budget of about $6k. With that $6k I'd like to end up with something with a tube frame or exo'd, with fuel injection and riding on at least 37" tires. Those are about my only requirements for now.

I can do all the labor myself and I have several junkyards to source parts from.

Does anyone have an opinion as to whether or not I could accomplish this starting with an 84 or 85 Toyota truck or should I stick with the cheaper Suzukis?

Any info is welcome.

Thanks.

Hey. I don't own a Toy now but I'm looking into possibly getting one. I'm deciding between a Toyota truck or a Suzuki Samurai or Sidekick. I'm hoping you guys can give me some opinions on which way to go.

I'm planning on making a pretty serious off road vehicle for mostly trail driving. I want it to be moderately capable on the rocks but I live in the midwest (St. Louis) so the rock climbing is pretty limited even though WEROCK kicked off the past season just a couple hours from here in Hannibal, MO. Mostly I'll be tackling dirt, trees and (rocky)creeks and most of that on steep hilly terrain.

I'll be starting with a budget of about $6k. With that $6k I'd like to end up with something with a tube frame or exo'd, with fuel injection and riding on at least 37" tires. Those are about my only requirements for now.

I can do all the labor myself and I have several junkyards to source parts from.

Does anyone have an opinion as to whether or not I could accomplish this starting with an 84 or 85 Toyota truck or should I stick with the cheaper Suzukis?

Any info is welcome.

Thanks. u didnt search very hard! :laughing:

If you decide to go the toyota route let me know i might be able to help you. Suzukis are for homos. BTW, where do you live?



-Collier

Well the problem really is what search term should I use?. I'm sure there's plenty of info relating to this but it's probably buried in threads that don't have the title 'Which should I buy: Samurai or Toyota". If I just search for 'first off road project' or 'which should I buy?' or 'Toyota or Suzuki' I get too many replies that don't relate to my question.

I'm pretty sure I'm going with a Toyota but the Suzukis are so cheap and small and easy to transport/store/maintain. It's a tough decision. I had an almost bone stock Sidekick that I beat the shit out of (rolled it, ran it off a 4' drop) and it just kept going (til I blew the motor) and my friends with, ahem, Toyota trucks, would get stuck in places I sailed through. I think that had a lot to do with driving skill and picking the right line though.

Maybe I just gave up too easy. I'll try searching some more.

I actually live up in Alton but it's easier to say St. Louis. If I go with a Toyota I'll definately take any help I can get. Where you at?

south city

I'd go Samurai. I have a $2500 Zuk that can do the Rubicon no problem. If I put a few grand more into it, it could go anywhere. Can't beat the price.

I'll be starting with a budget of about $6k. With that $6k I'd like to end up with something with a tube frame or exo'd, with fuel injection and riding on at least 37" tires. Those are about my only requirements for now.


Pretty much the only way to make a Sammy run 37s is to drop Toyota stuff under it...so why not just start with the Toyota?

Also, the longer wheelbase of the Toy will help with hill climbs.

Blah blah blah. I can't think for myself. I need someone to hold my hand picking out a truck.

You need to look at the end result as to what could be possible, not what people started with.

Does anyone have an opinion as to whether or not I could accomplish this starting with an 84 or 85 Toyota truck Why limit yourself to these years? By the time you make them off-road worthy you will just about have the same $$$ whether it is Solid axle already or if you have to do and SAS on an IFS rig. For that matter, you could start with a 2-wheel drive truck.

Pretty much the only way to make a Sammy run 37s is to drop Toyota stuff under it...so why not just start with the Toyota?

Also, the longer wheelbase of the Toy will help with hill climbs.

That's pretty much what I was thinking. The appealing thing about the Suzukis is the size and initial price. The drawback is the size and the price of upgrading. If I went Suzuki I'd go Sidekick/Tracker with TrailTough's 'Trail Slayer' conversion kit which would allow me to run up to 40" tires. But that's $2800 not including the axles (Toyota). That with the base vehicle cost almost blows my budget.

I'd want something like this:http://photos.digipenguin.com/images/A_5/0/5/2/2505/ng0dgq0k.Large.jpg

But I think if I took the bed off and bobbed the rear end I could shorten an '85 pickup enough.

I'd like something like this:
http://photos.digipenguin.com/images/A_5/0/5/2/2505/bzzav410.jpg

I'll need it to fit on a 16' foot trailer with a generator and welder mounted up by the tongue in a 2 1/2' utility box.

Why limit yourself to these years? By the time you make them off-road worthy you will just about have the same $$$ whether it is Solid axle already or if you have to do and SAS on an IFS rig. .

Same money maybe? but less time. besides I know I want solid axles so why start with IFS if I don't have to.

I plan to wheel this while I'm building it. Basically the plan is to bolt on a lift kit that will clear 37's. Then drive it until I break it. Then replace what broke with something better. On the off weekends I'll be cutting stuff off and welding stuff on for fun. However I'll only have about 6k to start so I don't want to get halfway through and realize it's gonna take 20k to get it where I want it.

The 85 is nice because of the reliable 22r engine, solid axles and fuel injection. That's three necessary things I don't have to upgrade right away (more time wheeling)

I'll need 37" tires at least to start because of the terrain I'll be on.

I need a cage or exo for safety because I plan to roll this thing and I just had a kid (that I don't want to leave fatherless).

If I have enough fun with that then I'm sure I'll put more money into it (lots more I'm sure) and make something closer to the pics I posted above.

nothing like some good pirate tech threads...:shaking:

Sorry about originally posting this in the wrong spot. I'm still getting used to the way things are organized around here.

I guess this is just a grey area. I need to just pick a vehicle and take the plunge.

I'm a little tentative because originally I bought a Dakota with the intentions of building it up into a serious trail rig but as I did more research I realized my options with that truck were seriously limited. Especially because it's my daily driver and I can't afford to lose it for weeks at a time. I also need it to keep it's functionality as a truck.

Thanks to the guys who have replied.

For me, I don't like the size of the Toyota's. Too big. The Samurai is a good size for me. I can pick up a Samurai for under $300, add $300 for Toyota axles, $1000 for gears, $500 for lockers, $1000 for dual four link, $1000 for misc., and your set and you have about $2000 left over for more improvements. Or just take that $6k and buy one already built:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=618313
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=607693
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=610964
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=607653
There are many more. Search for "Buggy"

For me, I don't like the size of the Toyota's. Too big. The Samurai is a good size for me. I can pick up a Samurai for under $300, add $300 for Toyota axles, $1000 for gears, $500 for lockers, $1000 for dual four link, $1000 for misc., and your set and you have about $2000 left over for more improvements. Or just take that $6k and buy one already built:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=618313
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=607693
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=610964
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=607653
There are many more. Search for "Buggy"

please post the name of the vendor your getting a pair of Toy lockers from as well as the dual 4 link setup. 1 grand for links front and rear is a smoking deal. Just not sure who's smoking what.:laughing:

please post the name of the vendor your getting a pair of Toy lockers from as well as the dual 4 link setup. 1 grand for links front and rear is a smoking deal. Just not sure who's smoking what.:laughing:

I'm guessing he's talking about building your own links. Which is what I would do anyway.

I've seen a few for sale but that kinda takes the fun out of it. I am new to this whole extreme off road thing and I'd like to design and build something myself.

I've seen a few for sale but that kinda takes the fun out of it. I am new to this whole extreme off road thing and I'd like to design and build something myself.

In that case, save a lot of time and headache changing parts and making stuff fit. Buy a Toy pickup. Flatbed it, SAS it and it's pretty much ready to fun.

Same money maybe? but less time. besides I know I want solid axles so why start with IFS if I don't have to.


That's easy enough to answer. The IFS trucks will most likely not be as trashed. They also arguably have a better drivetrain. You're going to end up with better rear brakes, a wider rear axle, the correct steering box, fuel injection (most had it...atleast in this neck of the woods), etc.

If you're going to go leafs you're going to want to run a drop hanger most likely. You'll be cutting away the factory solid axle mounts anyway so why not start with the IFS? Once either one is stripped down to the point that that you're ready to weld on new parts the frames are going to look the same basically.

If you're going to go with links you can just as easily start off with 2wd. After all, all that factory stuff is coming off anyway. It's all about getting the most truck for your money to start with and going from there. Why waste time and money bringing something up to par and THEN modifying it?

The correct steering box? What's that mean? Remember I'm new to this.

most(if not all) toy sas owners use an ifs steering box.

Well, if you think about it for what you want to do why even limit yourself to a suzuki or a toyota?

Like has been said, once all is said and done the only thing that (might) be stock is the basic frame and body.

Around the midwest ( i grew up in st. louis and currently live in rolla) I have never found a single place I couldn't offroad based on the size of my vehicle. I ran an 85 F-150 longbed on 35's and sure, body damage happened, but i was always able to work my way through.

Which brings me to my next point:

You can probably find a s-10 or a ranger for less than a suzuki or toyota, swap in a ford 3.8 or 302 or a gm 3.8/4.3/305/etc, do a full width axle swap, use transmissions and transfercases that you can pick up for under $100 all day long, and not have to worry about breaking stuff or if you do, the parts are alot cheaper and alot more common than toyota or suzuki.

Justin

most(if not all) toy sas owners use an ifs steering box.

Ahh. Thanks.

Well, if you think about it for what you want to do why even limit yourself to a suzuki or a toyota?Justin


I picked Toyota because I don't have alot of experience modifying offroad vehicles and I don't know many people who do so I need to rely mostly on these forums for info and Toyotas seem to be the most popular and the most written about. They also have HUGE aftermarket support.

I picked Suzuki because they are cheap but mostly because they are small.

I could have chosen any reason I guess but I had to start somewhere and I don't have any particular brand loyalty.

but I definately don't like fords....don't ask.

but I definately don't like fords....don't ask.

Amen to that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am a Suzuki guy myself, but I have own a Toyota and I like them both. Either route you go will work great, all you need to do is figure out which way you want to go. Suzuki's are probably about as budget friendly as you can get, but they all get expensive as your wish list grows.

By correct steering box I could have been more specific and said the side to side swinging IFS type used with crossover steering setups. The stock solid axle trucks use a push-pull setup similar to what you might see under a Chevy solid axle truck. The system works...kinda...but as soon as you start lifting it you're going to have bumpsteer. And as soon as you start getting that suspension to move a little you're going to break steering arms. The solution, of course, is crossover steering which would mean swapping and IFS box on to the factory solid axle truck. It's not a huge deal to do, but it's one more part to buy and one more thing to do if you want to compare the amount of work necessary to build a good factory solid axle truck versus doing an SAS on an IFS truck.

http://www.rpm4x4.com/specs-mike.shtml

Look what can be done to a Tracker/sidekick:eek:
good choice if you plan to trail ride more than rockcrawling

FWIW I think MOST toy guys prefer to start with an IFS truck. I know I would if I were wanting to build one. It might be easier though for someone new to fabrication to start with an 85. Remember that EFI wasn't standard on toyota pickups. It was an option starting in 85 so finding an 85 pickup with fuel injection might be difficult but certainly possible.

You are looking for a very specific truck but an 85 EFI toy pickup sounds like a good fit for you...

don't know how the selection is there but in CA you can buy a nice locked efi toy with dual cases for around 6 to 7 grand built and ready to run the con.
buy it here ship it there and you probly save some dough

If you want a solid truck to start to with, go witha pre 85 yota, they are indestructible and still cheaper to find parts for than a suzuki. After you start building you can think about all the other options but it will still be cheaper to start toyota, and I'm a chevy man myself!

http://www.rpm4x4.com/specs-mike.shtml

Look what can be done to a Tracker/sidekick:eek:
good choice if you plan to trail ride more than rockcrawling

I've seen those RPM guys in action and they are truly nuts. :mr-t:

I've seen those RPM guys in action and they are truly nuts. :mr-t:

wish i could find a video of them jumping

Thanks for the additional replies.