every story I've heard behind the scenes about TTC is that it is a bunch of tight @$$es making a crap load of lame rules and if you slip up at all then it's your @$$ and your points.

I'm not talking about the wheelin' aspect. I'm just talking about the weekend rules in general. what you can an can't do....and why they think it's such a top secret event that all people should bow to?

hellI bought the video of the '99 TTC and it was the gayest thing I ever saw. Looked like friggen GOLF the way the spectators had to be semi-silent, and you hear a little golf clap after an event was cleared.

am I just horrilbly mislead or am I right? cause I've never been so I don't really know. Once again this is just what I am hearing from many parties over the years.

speak out if you've got a gripe or think a few rules should be changed.

dude, they gave me free beer - I am NOT complainin ;)

Go next year, and you will think it rocks - your just jealous cause you suck and were not there :flipoff2:

see there's one for the possitive team. I like anyone that give me free :beer: :D I could have gone this year but the wisdom teeth surgery thing sucked.

The only rules they need to enforce were the ones to keep the competition fair. I have no problem with that.

I have no complaints with the way it was run. I don't know how you can have a competition without rules, and the ones that were specified were fair and evenly applied.

If there was an issue, the situation was brought to the Drivers, who made the decision. If a truck was unable to compete at their alloted time because of mechanical failure, the judges let the fellow competitors make the decision.

When John had trouble with his fan before the mini rubicon, the judges asked the drivers if he could go last, same with Cory in the mud pit, me in the mud pit, and Abba on the hill climb. Every time the drivers made the decision, not the judges.

That seems pretty fair to me

Tim.

I don't know much about the intricate workings of the event, but I do have just a couple of problems with the way it is promoted.

First, the whole "street legal" thing. Give me a break. I have no problem with the vehicles that are in the comp - NONE. But, let's quit pretending that these machines have even the foggiest chance of becoming legally registered in most US states. Let's just call it what it is - a competition for OFF-road vehicles, even if a small "street" test is included in the contest.

Second, the little barbs they get in on various trucks that make the top 70 or so that they show in the mag. If a vehicle is missing a winch or cage, they go out of their way to point it out, as if to say "don't vote for this guy". Hey, everyone that comes knows they have to have a winch on there. If they're willing to buy one JUST FOR THAT EVENT, more power to them. But, in many parts of this country, a winch on a 4x4 is about as useful as tits on a bull. So, don't expect the potential entrants to already have one when they have a 1 in 1,000 shot of being picked for the event.

That's my beef.

TEX

Tin Bender and I were talking about the comp the other day and a point he made was that it's fully geared towards mud trucks. There only seemed to be one or two obsticles that rock crawler would be real good at.

That being said however, the rig (and driver) that won are VERY good in the rocks ;)

Originally posted by TEX
First, the whole "street legal" thing. Give me a break. I have no problem with the vehicles that are in the comp - NONE. But, let's quit pretending that these machines have even the foggiest chance of becoming legally registered in most US states. Let's just call it what it is - a competition for OFF-road vehicles, even if a small "street" test is included in the contest.


I think most of them would be street legal here....but most of them aren't street legal in their own state :rolleyes:


Second, the little barbs they get in on various trucks that make the top 70 or so that they show in the mag. If a vehicle is missing a winch or cage, they go out of their way to point it out, as if to say "don't vote for this guy". Hey, everyone that comes knows they have to have a winch on there. If they're willing to buy one JUST FOR THAT EVENT, more power to them. But, in many parts of this country, a winch on a 4x4 is about as useful as tits on a bull. So, don't expect the potential entrants to already have one when they have a 1 in 1,000 shot of being picked for the event.


I thought the way they did that was really crappy this year, too. Even worse than the winch thing, they seemed to diss the parts people chose for their rig, and were really biased about it. I remeber there was an early bronco a smallblock w/ 36s and a D44 and they commented on it being barely enough axle, but there was a scout with a D44 and big block that they praised for it's stout drivetrain :confused:

I usually like their smart-ass writing style but when it comes to something where people are voting like that they need to stick to the facts.

it seemed to me that some of the retarded street events like ride and drive and show n shine were judged mostly on personal preference of the judges and not anything else. I thought it was pretty fawked up that the one judge suggested one of the competitors change motors, seems like he was a bit biased to begin with to me. They are :rainbow: events anyways.

Dallas

its bias....but thats cause I got 2nd:flipoff2: ... I think phil talked to Curtis.. Curtis should explain what happend to give a better idea of what phil is talking about eith the rules... not competition rules but people rules... having dogs ect..

Mike-

Originally posted by LOKNLOD


I think


Apparently you don't think, cuz you wouldn't have made the following comment...


but there was a scout with a D44 and big block that they praised for it's stout drivetrain :confused:


The only Scout I saw in the TTC this year was in fact a Stout Scout and had 60's front and rear, 44" swampers and yes, the big block.


smart-ass

Why yes I am. :flipoff2:

--JoshC

Originally posted by JoshC



Apparently you don't think, cuz you wouldn't have made the following comment...




The only Scout I saw in the TTC this year was in fact a Stout Scout and had 60's front and rear, 44" swampers and yes, the big block.

--JoshC

Maybe you should think, he is referring to the write ups on the entries published in the mag that were voted on for the comp, and yes there was a lame ass scout with a 44 front that they praised for having a 'stout drivetrain'

Originally posted by Hayraker


Maybe you should think, he is referring to the write ups on the entries published in the mag that were voted on for the comp, and yes there was a lame ass scout with a 44 front that they praised for having a 'stout drivetrain'

Hahaha!! :beer: :rasta: :nuke:

Originally posted by TEX
First, the whole "street legal" thing. Give me a break. I have no problem with the vehicles that are in the comp - NONE. But, let's quit pretending that these machines have even the foggiest chance of becoming legally registered in most US states. Let's just call it what it is - a competition for OFF-road vehicles, even if a small "street" test is included in the contest.


Well, here's my takes on it:

'Round these parts, "street legal", or at least being able to keep it licensed, is pretty important. I, for example, don't want to have to trailer the truck to the trails that are only a half-hour away. And some other trails that are 3 hours away exit 10s of miles from where they start, so I don't want to trailer there either. That's why my truck (placed #8 this year) was built specifically to pass the local inspections - and have 44's. It may not pass in many states, but I don't care, it passes here (in B.C.). That's good enough for me. And the TTC guys only care that it's got plates and valid insurance.

But, this seems to be a primary difference between Canadian and U.S. 'wheelers - we (the Canucks) tend to still drive our 4x4's to/from the trails, where the Yanks are tending towards trailering more and more. Just my personal observations. And that's okay, it's just a difference.

But bottom line, don't forget it's their event. And because it is, they can do with it as they please. If they want to give you points for how many Tazz's (had 1) and Hoola girls (none of these) on the dash, or how many beers the co-driver can drink before falling out of the passenger seat (we would have won that hands down!), then so be it. It's their event.

Now, I did have a problem with some of their rules 'cause they weren't complete or consistent, but no prob's with the content or the gist, or the fact that we all knew what the rules were before going there. Again, it's their event.

I don't know if the event is particularly geared towards mud trucks. I'd say it's more geared towards 4x4's with little or no bodies on them, with huge tires and strong motors. That wouldn't (doesn't) go over well here, but it seems to be the trend in the U.S., so it makes sense.

--Rob

Originally posted by Mustard Dog
Tin Bender and I were talking about the comp the other day and a point he made was that it's fully geared towards mud trucks. There only seemed to be one or two obsticles that rock crawler would be real good at.

Kong's4x4 and I have had that same discussion a couple of times over the last few years. Being into rock crawling myself, I have never thought much of the TTC or had any desire to compete in it.
I think their goal is to have a comp that shows that best all around vehicle, but seems to lean more toward an East coast style. That just goes to show how stout that Bronco was.

Originally posted by StinkBug
They are :rainbow: events anyways.

Dallas :rainbow: :rainbow: :rainbow: :rainbow: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I was real surprised that a Rock Buggy won this event too.

That is a tribute to JRs driving ability. Surely a guy from California did not have the mud driving experience that some of the others had.

One thing I will say is that the "Mud" at this event is pretty :rainbow: compared to the mud I used to wheel in Mississippi and Louisiana growing up.

I don't care what you say, Gumbo is Gunbo and you can't replicate it with a 1000 water trucks in California.

Both the first place truck JR's Bronco and the second place truck Scott's Raptor were rock crawlers. So much for the event leaning toward the mud trucks. Barry

My take on the TTC is the same as for other competitions.
1. Great Vehicle Preparation
2. Great driving
3. Don't Break
4. Luck is luck; finesse it your way

"He who does not break or breaks the least usually wins." Bro John was very well prepared with a machine that was not only capable, but just didn't bust. Even as a one-off, the rig is well 'integrated' with a big H.P. engine that will NOT overcome any part of the drivetrain.
regards, as always, jefe

I'm not talking about the comp (as mike stated) I'm talking about the BS rules about who you can bring, what you can do while you are there. what you can take pics of. who you can cheer on. what kind of tampon the judges and rule makers wear. yada yada :D

Originally posted by TEX
the little barbs they get in on various trucks that make the top 70 or so that they show in the mag. If a vehicle is missing a winch or cage, they go out of their way to point it out, as if to say "don't vote for this guy". Hey, everyone that comes knows they have to have a winch on there. If they're willing to buy one JUST FOR THAT EVENT, more power to them. But, in many parts of this country, a winch on a 4x4 is about as useful as tits on a bull. So, don't expect the potential entrants to already have one when they have a 1 in 1,000 shot of being picked for the event.


Excellent point. I have thought the same thing before. Tell us what the rig has got on it and STFU and let us vote.

On a side note, I wish they would quit bashing car 4x4's so much. I don't see the problem with a 59 Caddy on 38"s :confused:
Seriously!

If it's so :rainbow: , why does everyone want to be in it...hear about it and so forth?? It's the only competition of it's kind open to anyone. It gets some great rigs and drivers that do different types of wheeling ..

There will never be a perfect competition.

I like to see these rigs and drivers.... and would love to be part of it.

The street legality part of it bugs me. That I find crap but that doesn't mean I don;t want to see what has been showing up.

Just call a spade a spade.

NO DOGS??? There were no dogs allowed?? If that was so...then the people rules suck. Why couldnt you have a dog there??
And even though this doesn't have to do with Sillynecks question/statement. I thought it was gay in the mag. when they would diss someone not having a winch or running 36's or 38's with a D44...not everyone has the time or money to get one tons and 44's, i bet MOST not all rigs in the mags where homebuilt and could kick the rigs of the writers of FW butt....so why diss someones rig??? Or say you need to change engines, if someone wanted me to change my engine to their prefered engine, i would say go to hell or buy me that engine. Different prefrences for different people...not everyone is the same.

top truck challenge is what it is.

rcaa is what it is.

pro-rock is what it is.

etc. etc.


now what i would like to see in a four wheeler style setting would be an all off-road compition. screw the r&d, screw the turning radious, screw the ramp, etc. i am talking about an all out off-road comp that featured a wide variety of events. like the rocks, mud, and hills with this type of ervent who cares who wins the show and shine? who cares who wins engineering? who cares who's rig rides like a caddy? who cares if you are a ramp champ? who cares if your rig will tow a dump truck up a hill? i want to see real world action in a wide variety format. this would show what type of rigs perform well in all wheeling situations. just my op.

Originally posted by ryeguy


And the TTC guys only care that it's got plates and valid insurance.


See, that's my whole point. Where I live, we have to pass emmissions AND have a safety inspection - 44" tires are gonna flunk ya unless you have ZERO lift & got 'em on there completely with a "sawzall lift". Some places have no safety inspection, some no emmissions, none of which have the same regs. Within 50 miles of my house are 3 completely different emmissions specs.

Bottom line, if you lived where I live, you wouldn't be able to put a plate on your truck legally. Therefore, you'd be ineligible "according to the rules". But, because your truck is legal where YOU live, you can run. Seem unfair?

As to trailering vs. driving, I'd never go back to driving mine. But, even if I wanted to, I couldn't. It won't pass emmissions (the test wasn't even required when I built the truck). And that's one of the reasons you see more & more folks on trailers. It's not even legally an option to drive it for a lot of us.

TEX

Originally posted by white knight
It's the only competition of it's kind open to anyone.

Actually, that part kind of hits on another beef of mine. The selection process. It would be extremely cumbersome to change it, but I'd love to see something more fair. 1,000 applicants, 70 or so chosen at random, then a popularity contest (complete with vote recruitment at Pirate & elsewhere) for the final 10? Granted, in the end, some good choices are made. But, of the 900+ that we never see, it could very well be that 50-100 of those machines would have beaten the eventual winner had they been invited.

Again, no offense to the crowd that got in. Y'all looked deserving to me. And I know it's not doable. But, wouldn't it be nice to have something like a dozen regional competitions with the winners from each going to TTC instead of the way it's done now?

TEX

Me and a friend with a sammy are going to try to get our trucks into the magazine next year.....If we can get in we aint gunna bring any spare parts, maybe a birfield

gotta love AAA and 100 free miles

we think it'd be fun

Originally posted by TEX


Actually, that part kind of hits on another beef of mine. The selection process. It would be extremely cumbersome to change it, but I'd love to see something more fair. 1,000 applicants, 70 or so chosen at random, then a popularity contest (complete with vote recruitment at Pirate & elsewhere) for the final 10? Granted, in the end, some good choices are made. But, of the 900+ that we never see, it could very well be that 50-100 of those machines would have beaten the eventual winner had they been invited.

Again, no offense to the crowd that got in. Y'all looked deserving to me. And I know it's not doable. But, wouldn't it be nice to have something like a dozen regional competitions with the winners from each going to TTC instead of the way it's done now?

TEX

It's just a stupid mag thing, over 50% of the crap they tell yopu in mags in incorrect and Lame anyway....TTC is :rainbow: just because "it is":D :D :D I don't even buy the mags since I got online 5.5 years ago, maybe 1 a year, and even then I think "how lame" are these guys?

Originally posted by 392ssII
I thought it was gay in the mag. when they would diss someone not having a winch or running 36's or 38's with a D44...not everyone has the time or money to get one tons and 44's,

Nor does everyone have a need to. Guy around here has a 488" full roller motor making (no joke) right at 800HP in his CJ7. He runs 38.5" Boggers & a D44 front. Nobody laughs at that 44, but if he put a 60 up there, we'd ALL laugh at him for being so stupid as to give up all that clearance & tack on extra weight. Sometimes the mags forget that not everyone is a left-coaster :D

TEX

Yeah, and they get downright snotty when anyone from the east writes in asking for more coverage.

Rocks rule, if we had them I'd damn sure be out there...but there is still a lot of wheeling going on over here and it ain't bein covered....

but back to the issue....

That is true about the different reg's from state to state....does seem a little skewed. Don't bother asking them though, they might get nasty :rolleyes:

I Tottaly agree with Tex, and Loknload

And I would love to see an event like High5 describes, combined with regional winners moving up like Tex proposed.

And it should cover many things....not just different terrain, but different skills required from driver and spotter / navigator...like rock-crawling RCAA style, speed-time-distance rallies Euro style (but through brutal terrain), skills comps, the works. That would decide a "top truck" to me.

Originally posted by high5
top truck challenge is what it is.

rcaa is what it is.

pro-rock is what it is.

etc. etc.


now what i would like to see in a four wheeler style setting would be an all off-road compition. screw the r&d, screw the turning radious, screw the ramp, etc. i am talking about an all out off-road comp that featured a wide variety of events. like the rocks, mud, and hills with this type of ervent who cares who wins the show and shine? who cares who wins engineering? who cares who's rig rides like a caddy? who cares if you are a ramp champ? who cares if your rig will tow a dump truck up a hill? i want to see real world action in a wide variety format. this would show what type of rigs perform well in all wheeling situations. just my op.

I could not agree with you more, I would love to see something that was more of a several day race like the Rover ones in South America. The biggest problem would be find a place to do it.

Originally posted by Mustard Dog
Tin Bender and I were talking about the comp the other day and a point he made was that it's fully geared towards mud trucks.

HERE HERE! ~ It always suprizes me that TTC is very much tied to mud and 40+ tires (Boggers in particular)...Personally I think its kinda :lame: - We used to joke that all you needed to get in was some 12" lift springs, more than 8 shocks (chrome please) and 4 steering stabilizers and lastly some 44" Boggers.....I was glad to see that has changed a bit ~ particularly with the last one.

However, I do enjoy seeing rock buggies dominate TTC.

I have to agree with some of the other guys, it would be nice to see a 4x4 related event. However I'd like to see the engineering part of it too ~ BUT only if they list why so-and-so won.

I was a bit perplexed when I read that the frog had to remove his sponsors logo from his rig to compete.

In motorsports we have certain areas of the car that are reserved for contengency stickers, or event sponsors, but the rest of our sheet metal is ours. Again, its their event to run as they see fit, and maybe this sport doesnt rely as heavily on sponsorship funds as auto racing, but i thought it a bit unfair to request someone remove the logo from their rig.

Jim

Okay. Here's the deal. I kinda didn't want to talk about this in this forum until all was said and done, but here it goes anyway ;)

Abba talked to one of the officials right after the comp was done. He doesn't remember the guys name as I am sometimes surprised Abba remembers my name cause he sucks at names :D :D :D Anyway, the judge told him he would have finished higher than 9th if it had not been for a few things:

1. That my wife and I started down the runway during the brake test and 1/8 mile drag after we saw some other guys shoot down the runway. We were stopped after about 10 feet and came back, but the other guys were the ones who held everything up.

2. That I was cheering on Abba during the mini-Rubicon even though all I was saying were things like "get it," "go-go-go" and the such.

3. That I walked down into the Tank Trap after all was said and done. Right after Abba timed out, I asked one of the judges if I could move my way down. He said, "not right now." I waited for like 30 minutes and talked to John (the top guy from Four Wheeler) about going down for some pictures. He said that since it was all done to go for it.

4. The final thing is they docked him points because we brought our dog even though she wasn't a problem to anyone and was always out of the way. He said something about people complaining so he got penalized. (the coolest response came from Ned who didn't even notice we had a dog since she was so well behaved)

When Abba told me this crap I was pissed, and still am, and vented later that day when I talked to Mike and Phil. The thing is I talked to FOUR people from the judging pool and Four Wheeler in the meantime. I've talked with Jim Piatt over the last two days via email, I heard from Ned Bacon and Robin Stover over email yesterday and talked to John (why can't I remember his name?) from Four Wheeler on the phone. (I wonder if this thread got some of them to finally talk to me ;) )

Each of these guys said basically that someone was blowing smoke up Abba's ass or trying to cause trouble by bullshitting him. I haven't yet had a chance to really talk with Abba about it, but I will this weekend and find out who the idiot was who told him all this crap. In fact, the main guys even went as far to say whoever it was won't have a job with TTC in the future.

So, either these guys all got together and worked out a common answer to not look so :rainbow: or the one person Abba talked to is a freakin' moron who needs to be dragged through the tank trap next year.

I'll keep everyone informed of what happens from here.

Originally posted by Snoopy
HERE HERE! ~ It always suprizes me that TTC is very much tied to mud and 40+ tires (Boggers in particular)...Personally I think its kinda :lame: - We used to joke that all you needed to get in was some 12" lift springs, more than 8 shocks (chrome please) and 4 steering stabilizers and lastly some 44" Boggers.....I was glad to see that has changed a bit ~ particularly with the last one.

Maybe this should be a wake-up call to some of the "Rock only" crowd that these people are VOTED to compete by the readership from the mags.. ANd OBVUILSY - if that is what they are voting for, then rocks are NOT the focus of the MAJORITY of the people interested in off roading...

So just keep that in mind ;)

Curtis - I would not be surprised is politics DOES have a part in this, and it sure looks like some of them TTC officials are playing the political/personal game quite efficiently :(

Curtis, i don't buy it.

Most of the events are not subjective enough to make that much of a difference. I know my guys were cheering along during the Tank Trap and other events. No one said anything to me. Someone did start to reach out to grab the winch cable at the end of the Tank Trap (so we wouldn't run it over) and one of the judges cautioned them that I would be DQ'd if they helped. That's fair in my mind. (they didn't get near the cable)

How did these infractions change Abba's placing in the events?

Which event do you think it made a difference in?

You had a dog? Didn't see anything in the rules that said you couldn't have a dog. Maybe I missed it. I know they said your co-driver COULD be a dog if you wanted. :) (Really, they did)

I think whomever told Abba that was likely trying give him HIS opinion, not that of the entire judging panel.

Unless someone was yelling encouragement from the Grassy Knoll, I don't get the conspiricy theory.

Anytime you have an event where there are Judges, you are going to get Judging preferences.

For example, I would have personally judged the Frog higher in engineering, because I like that kind of stuff. I wouldn't have picked the Lavender Bros. first in Show and Shine, but John's Bronco. (nothing against Toby, he would have been second) After riding in the Frog, I wouldn't have picked my truck over Barry's in the ride and drive. There was likely not a consensus amoungst the judges either. We just got to see the final mark.

Originally posted by lsloth
I would love to see something that was more of a several day race like the Rover ones in South America. The biggest problem would be find a place to do it.

Yes, I always thought that would be awsome too. I would be all over that. I thought there were plans for a couple of rock rallys this year, anything ever come of that?

the more I think about the :rainbow: rules whether they are real or just a judge w/ a sh!tty attitude that day I also started thinking about how TTC is still stuck back in the days of monster trucks and show n shine. I don't think the events have progressed w/ the rest of the Top Trucks in the world. I just drew this conclusion and it makes a lot of sense.

Think about 5 years ago. everyone had paint and most everything was street legal. then the sport progressed into serious buggies and function not so much form. and TTC stayed the same. so to take its place we have the new stuff like arca and what not to decide who's the sh!t. now that I have made sense of this, TTC can fade into the shadows and sling as much mud as they want.

Originally posted by Curtis


1. That my wife and I started down the runway during the brake test and 1/8 mile drag after we saw some other guys shoot down the runway. We were stopped after about 10 feet and came back, but the other guys were the ones who held everything up.


'
Wonder who that was :D:D:D

Like Tim said (Wolf) I was chearing him on, heck i even talked to him in the trap, no one said shit to me, or him.
I think some judges were going on power trips IMO

I am not sure how you guys figure that the event is so geared towards mud. Prior to last year most of the winners were Jeeps with smaller tires and they have always spanked the mud trucks on 44s. Sam Patton, Grady, Heath and the Scorpion, Shannon Cambell, Randy Ellis...

Originally posted by Snoopy


HERE HERE! ~ It always suprizes me that TTC is very much tied to mud and 40+ tires (Boggers in particular)...Personally I think its kinda :lame: - We used to joke that all you needed to get in was some 12" lift springs, more than 8 shocks (chrome please) and 4 steering stabilizers and lastly some 44" Boggers.....

Actually, no properly built mud truck looks anything at all like you describe. 4" of lift up front (possibly up to 6") is about max, regardless of tire size. Less lift in back most of the time. Last year's NMRO class III champ has a CJ7 with ZERO lift & he runs 44" boggers on back (38.5's on front). :)

TEX

Originally posted by DRM


Maybe this should be a wake-up call to some of the "Rock only" crowd that these people are VOTED to compete by the readership from the mags.. ANd OBVUILSY - if that is what they are voting for, then rocks are NOT the focus of the MAJORITY of the people interested in off roading...

So just keep that in mind ;)

Great point. Rocks are certainly the hot topic these days. And I don't even have a problem with them getting the lion's share of attention. But, the mags (being West-coast only & the writers being more journalists than wheelers) have underestimated the 4-wheeling community's interest in mud. In particular, serious competition mud. A playday on someone's farm with a bunch of drunks they feel is worth a feature. But, did even one of the mags respond to my invitation to come to any of my 5 2002 events? Nope. Not even a "thanks but no thanks" even though I'm probably running the 2nd most famous mud race sanctioning body in the US right now. Essentially, I am to NMRO (which they also ignore) what CalRocks or ProRocks are to RCAA - all 3 of which will be the darlings of the mags over the next few months.

Do I get any respect from the video community? Nope, they're more interested in "high-dollar" RCAA machines than "rattletrap" mudders. Hmmmm, I was at a mud race a couple of weeks back & one of the competitors had $750,000 tied up in his hauler & its contents. Talked to a buddy of mine there who had a laptop PC hooked up to his suspension as he was tuning it. One of the guys coming to my invitational race in October wanted to know if there was a problem with him bringing his 78' long hauler. And even though there'll be ~$15,000 in prize money to be had this Saturday in a town of only 2,200 residents, I guess us mudders are just low-budget nobodies that wouldn't make pretty pictures for the mags :D

TEX

Originally posted by TEX


Great point. Rocks are certainly the hot topic these days. And I don't even have a problem with them getting the lion's share of attention. But, the mags (being West-coast only & the writers being more journalists than wheelers) have underestimated the 4-wheeling community's interest in mud. In particular, serious competition mud. A playday on someone's farm with a bunch of drunks they feel is worth a feature. But, did even one of the mags respond to my invitation to come to any of my 5 2002 events? Nope. Not even a "thanks but no thanks" even though I'm probably running the 2nd most famous mud race sanctioning body in the US right now. Essentially, I am to NMRO (which they also ignore) what CalRocks or ProRocks are to RCAA - all 3 of which will be the darlings of the mags over the next few months.

Do I get any respect from the video community? Nope, they're more interested in "high-dollar" RCAA machines than "rattletrap" mudders. Hmmmm, I was at a mud race a couple of weeks back & one of the competitors had $750,000 tied up in his hauler & its contents. Talked to a buddy of mine there who had a laptop PC hooked up to his suspension as he was tuning it. One of the guys coming to my invitational race in October wanted to know if there was a problem with him bringing his 78' long hauler. And even though there'll be ~$15,000 in prize money to be had this Saturday in a town of only 2,200 residents, I guess us mudders are just low-budget nobodies that wouldn't make pretty pictures for the mags :D

TEX

You are whinning to the wrong people.....you don't need to convince us, it's the mags that need it....

Originally posted by zags


Yes, I always thought that would be awsome too. I would be all over that. I thought there were plans for a couple of rock rallys this year, anything ever come of that?

I am not aware of any events here in the US.

tex, you need to do your own coverage, write up and pictures, then sell them your stories. or at least they may think its worth covering

Wolf, I don't buy the conspiracy thing either. I think it was just the one person Abba talked to. I figure if neither John, Ned nor Jim knew anything about these incidents then I'm sure they didn't count against Abba. All is good about it in my mind. I just want to find out who was doing this talking and take care of it from there ;)

Mark, I'll never tell who it was :D :flipoff2: :D :flipoff2:

For what it's worth, Bob Hazel put's on something very close to what high5 is asking for.

Last year it was known as the Ramsey challenge series (Events in AR, Attica and PN), this year it's just the challenge series with the AR event behind us and the Attica event in the fall.

I've competed in three of these events so far and they do reward a well rounded team. off the top of my head...

rocks,
hill climbs
speed/sand dunes
sand hill climbs
logjam courses
trenches
mud
winching
speed courses thru the woods
accel and braking (in a field)
speed/water/waterproofing.

It takes consistent teamwork and a well rounded vehicle to be competitive- the big swampers kick it in the deep mud but make for a slower vehicle in the speed stuff- of course guys like Sam Patton goe just as fast until they roll over or take out cones etc. No offense to Sam, that's just his style.

Oh yeah- for all you guys moping about the west cost glory- these are/have been in the middle to east coast and have had consistent rag coverage.

Originally posted by G02Guy
For what it's worth, Bob Hazel put's on something very close to .......

Oh yeah- for all you guys moping about the west cost glory- these are/have been in the middle to east coast and have had consistent rag coverage.

Good sig!

i'm going to stick my neck here and tell you what i think the problem is. MAGIZINE SPONSORED EVENT. i don't subscribe to any magizines any more. REASON: they put 1 or 2 squared away rigs in an issue, then they put some stuff in there that is nothing but bolt ons and blocks. oh yea the more shocks the better. i bought a issue recently and it had a truck in there had something like 23 shocks(i lost count)(my have had somemore somewhere).
the same guys that will talk bad about a rig at ttc are the same guys that write good stuff about the bolt-on parts gone wrong rigs in their latest issue. (i'm sure somebody will read this at a magizine, no i don't care that now you will never put my truck in your magizine).

Originally posted by godwin
.....no i don't care that now you will never put my truck in your magizine).

Good hope they read this, all the mags suck, they are the past, the internet is now.......:p

thats right seabass. everybody that has a rig can let everybody else see it and they don't have to be friends with the magizine guy to do it. I am not talking trash about the good rigs that are in the magizines, but you've got to wonder why some of those other rigs get wrote up when at times the readers rides are more impressive.

Originally posted by godwin
.......at times the readers rides are more impressive.

Yup, I see some they should do full reviews on......

Um... I loved TTC and would do it all over again if I could. Its a hard competition and you get to hang out with some cool cats and compete with rigs that are of your own caliber so to speak.

If you dont like TTC its your gig.. I thought in 99' the crew putting it on was very respectful. sure I thought some stuff was fishy....but I got 2nd so of course I would think that.

The rules are fair, and anyone that thinks its no big deal to pull a dump truck up a hill has never pulled a buddys dead rig up cadillac hill before, thats a throttle down SOB! ... I have winched a rig onto the back of my old bronco before to get a guy out. so I think thats what the pull is trying to do..show if you can get your rig and your buddies out of the trail buy strapping 24K to it and saying giddy up that there hill boy!

Mike-

Originally posted by TEX


Great point. Rocks are certainly the hot topic these days. Blah blah blah......
TEX

Don't worry, we still love ya, Tex! :flipoff2:

Originally posted by kidwired
tex, you need to do your own coverage, write up and pictures, then sell them your stories. or at least they may think its worth covering

Actually, a writeup on my 2001 event was purchased by 4x44u.com, but never was published (you can find it now at www.stompers4x4.com on the Stompers Journal page). And John Cappa did come to one event I did in '99 (May, 2000 feature in P4WOR). Truckworld.com has tentatively agreed to publish the feature on Saturday's event. But, getting at least one of the print mags to cover at least one GUMBO event per season would be nice.

BTW, the reason Hazel's events get coverage is because his sponsors also advertise in the mags. Want us to keep paying for advertising in your mag? Come take pics of our banners flying at events - or else. Little arm-twisting never hurt ;)

So, that's where I am. Having trouble getting sponsors due to lack of mag coverage. Having trouble getting mag coverage due to lack of sponsors. :rolleyes:

TEX