Hey folks, just wanted to get some discussion going regarding adding obstacles or challenges to existing trails. We are opening a dialogue with our local rangers on coming up with new projects for our work days.

The hard core guys are getting bored with the current trails and the newbies needs something to ride on as well. My proposal is that you take your existing trails and try to find a few places to add challenges, where the newbies can bypass and then park to watch the carnage.

So what do you guys think, can you imagine how much more fun the existing trails would be with man-made stacked boulders, etc creating stair steps, steep rock climbs, off camber stuff, etc?

Has this been done on National forest property elsewhere? I know kayakers have been building man made rapids for years in the rivers and they draw big crowds.

Sam Hinton

interesting idea, but i'm not sure we want to be drawing large crowds. chances are they'll just trash the area and get it closed. if your bored with your trails stop bein a pussy and just drive to tougher ones.

Dallas

There is something about natural obstacles that is more exciting then man made. If going the man mad rout Id try to make it look and feal natural. A pure concrete man made obsticale is fun on a skateboard but not as much fun in a jeep!

I guess Id have to see it...

its a good idea... :D

Come build one in my front yard, put some plants around it, some fish in the pond, some bolders to climb, and ill call it my drive way!!

lates.

The Badlands has some man made trails and obstacles. They are cool, but it's completely different. He's trying to attract customers on privately owned land, you guys are just wheeling. I'd say find some tougher trails.

The issue is really not that we cannot find tougher trails, Tellico is close by and is quite the adventure. But I was reading a post today that even Tellico has too few obstacles and too much tame trail leading up to them. What if we take that tame trail and add NEW obstacles every mile or so making the whole trail a challenge to those interested.

Really what we are looking to do is find ways to help the forest service improve the existing trails and to attract more members into the club etc.

The forest service is seeing a loss of traffic, mostly atv'ers, do other parks, and want to know how to keep up. The other part of this is we are looking for new and creative projects to do during our work days.

What I envision is to take boulders, from road construction, etc and to place them into a new obstacle course running parallel with the current trail so the hard core guys could show off some more.

Many of you have seen, and complained, about folks with smaller rigs stacking up rocks and making your favorite obstacle a cake walk. What I am suggesting is go ahead and make a bypass if at all possible and if anything, make the obstacle harder!

I like the idea... what can it hurt anyway? And who the hell is gonna sit here and complain about NEW & ADDITIONAL obstacles to a trail? :confused:

i think its a great idea that is totally un-feasable. I mean. i really dont think that anyones got a rig capable of hauling the size of rocks we would want. Think about it. I read somewhere that for one of the jambos they haul'd in like 600 tons of rock. Now how exactly do you propose to move that kind (hell even 1/10 of that) onto an existing trail? I know my heep isnt up for the task, and my tow rig isnt 4wd. I mean, what does a rock the size of a 55 gallon drum weigh? ton? (basing this on the concrete block we hauled the other day, 2 x 2 x 6 = 2800lbs, and we hauled 54 of em :D:D) so you need at least 7 that size to maybe build a good obstacle. good thought but no way in fawk.

I think it is a good idea. Maybe use some of the nearby natural features to incorporate short bypasses of very difficult stuff. That way you dont' have to haul in stuff.
Something along these lines was done on state owned land at an orv area near here. However they used rock so small that every weenie stacked them and made it into a freeway:rolleyes:

Originally posted by sceep
i think its a great idea that is totally un-feasable. I mean. i really dont think that anyones got a rig capable of hauling the size of rocks we would want. Think about it.

SFWDA hauls in all kinds of materials to Tellico using loaders, dozers, a 6x6 hauler too.... It can be done...

SHINTON, are you referring to adding obstacles to Tellico?? I had a guy riding with me on 4 and 5 and all he could say was 'what happened to the obstacles??' He said the trails were much easier than when he was there last year. I really know nothing about how Tellico is managed but I thought maybe they were removed so that 'semi-stockers' would have something to do. Tellico now is either Easy/Medium or Extreme with nothing in between. Any ideas??

Originally posted by 85TrailToy
SHINTON, are you referring to adding obstacles to Tellico?? I had a guy riding with me on 4 and 5 and all he could say was 'what happened to the obstacles??' He said the trails were much easier than when he was there last year. I really know nothing about how Tellico is managed but I thought maybe they were removed so that 'semi-stockers' would have something to do. Tellico now is either Easy/Medium or Extreme with nothing in between. Any ideas??

The reason that trail 5 and trail 4 over to faines ford are so simple now is because they are preparing for building a bridge over faines ford. The bridge is being built to help battle the water qualitly issues downstream and help keep Tellico open.

I guess we are really fortunate here in Northern CA.

I like that I have some killer obstacles in a totally controlled environment at Hollister Hills (See TTC).

When I think of trails though, I think of the Rubicon and the like. I can't imagine driving through such a beautiful trail to a great secluded camp spot and on the way is.... A cement waterfall.

I also like how the snow run-off naturally changes the trails each season.

Actually I am talking mostly about Uhwarrie National Forest in the center of NC, but I had read a thread earlier on this board about Tellico as well.

As for the 'concrete' waterfall or obstacle, I really am thinking much more natural looking, basically large boulders, but you may have some concrete 'holding' them in place but you shouldnt really be able to see this.

I really think you can take existing trails, find spots which are wide enough for a second parallel section where you could then bring in a bunch of rocks and create a quick obstacle.

I really dont think anyone is objecting to the plan, mostly I just wanted to get it out there and that way maybe several clubs across USA that are doing work days might implement this. I really think if you allow stockers and hard core guys to run the same trails you will get higher attendance and generally more fun for all.

I know there will be some people yelling the trails are too crowded now, but part of my proposal is to try and make bypasses for most major obstacles so traffic can move on if they wish.

I have never ridden in Moab, but I understand that is one of the nice parts is that you can choose to skip something if you wish or if there is a wait there is another obstacle close you can go hit.

like pulling more rocks into the sluice???:D sounds like you have a good idea roll with it!

Originally posted by SHINTON

I have never ridden in Moab, but I understand that is one of the nice parts is that you can choose to skip something if you wish or if there is a wait there is another obstacle close you can go hit.

NO NO NO!!! that is the problem with Moab..everyone makes bypasses and widens the trail and makes it suck..

if a stocker wants to go on a trail he can make he needs to take a EASY TRAIL....not make a hard one into a road-that sucks..


I think man made obstacles are a good idea on private land or in parking lots!

I think making obstakle would encourorage people to make what they want also

Originally posted by 85TrailToy
SHINTON, are you referring to adding obstacles to Tellico?? I had a guy riding with me on 4 and 5 and all he could say was 'what happened to the obstacles??' He said the trails were much easier than when he was there last year. I really know nothing about how Tellico is managed but I thought maybe they were removed so that 'semi-stockers' would have something to do. Tellico now is either Easy/Medium or Extreme with nothing in between. Any ideas??

You are correct - there is no middle difficulty trails in Tellico any more, but that is not an intended thing. www.sfwda.org is a good place to stay up to date on how/when/where Tellico work is being done - so anyone interested in having some input - jump right in and get involved :)

It's a great idea, like they were talking about at prairie city. but I also agree with the whole dual trail thing. either it's easy or its hard. thats why they put signs at the beginning. if a stock jeep or anything else can make it then whats the point?

I am against trail modification period. It doesn't matter to me if you are making the trail easier or making it harder. What it comes down to is that you are trying to make the trail suit your vehicle. You should build your vehicle for the trails you ride not the other way around. If the trails become too easy then go find other trails. The only one who should be allowed to modify the trail is mother nature.

Originally posted by Paul Gagnon
I am against trail modification period. It doesn't matter to me if you are making the trail easier or making it harder. What it comes down to is that you are trying to make the trail suit your vehicle. You should build your vehicle for the trails you ride not the other way around. If the trails become too easy then go find other trails. The only one who should be allowed to modify the trail is mother nature.

Flawed arguement. The trails you ride were created by someone, some time to fit their own needs. Then someone else came along and made it fit their needs.

This idea of no traill midificaiton is a rather new and IMHO silly idea.


Now maybe your specific trails in your area that kind of stand may be necessary due to legal or political constraints, but without those constraints that kind ogf thinking just doesn't have any basis.

Originally posted by DRM


Flawed arguement. The trails you ride were created by someone, some time to fit their own needs. Then someone else came along and made it fit their needs.

Yes the trails were initially cut by someone but at some point the trail has to become mature and should be left take on it's own character.

I can see both sides of this dicussion. Natural forces of gravity and erosion make changes to a trail and add to the interest, but man made obstacles could be cool as well.

I would be disapointed if someone "built" an obstacle on the Con, but within a SVRA I could see it as a bonus.

Eric

I would be disapointed if someone "built" an obstacle on the Con, but within a SVRA I could see it as a bonus.

Weren't a bunch of the big rocks in the little sluice put there just a few years ago?

Originally posted by 85TrailToy
SHINTON, are you referring to adding obstacles to Tellico?? I had a guy riding with me on 4 and 5 and all he could say was 'what happened to the obstacles??' He said the trails were much easier than when he was there last year. I really know nothing about how Tellico is managed but I thought maybe they were removed so that 'semi-stockers' would have something to do. Tellico now is either Easy/Medium or Extreme with nothing in between. Any ideas??


ive always considered trail 4 and 5 tributaries to the hard trails..... i dont remember them as hard, been goin there since 1997....