I just got through buying a 83 Jeep Scrambler from 4 State 4wd off of Ebay without seeing it, first mistake. They grossly misrepresented this vehicle in so many ways. Needless to say, the Jeep that I bought was not the Jeep that I got. After receiving my Jeep and seeing what kind of condition it was in I called them to see if they would give me my money back and of course they said no. I then asked if they would do anything for me or at least give me a partial refund and they said that they were not going to to do anything at all. So, if you are thinking about doing business with these people, Dave or Wayne, then I would think twice.

Here is the link on ebay that they had for it.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1834456792

Now here is the list of the actual condition of the Jeep after Russ Baer at Baertrax looked at it. Russ has been in the Jeep industry for 20 years so he knows what he is talking about.

Frame: Rusted through at rt. rr. spring hanger area. Will break with easy use, safety hazard.

Body: Entire Tub has numerous rusted through areas, most in structurally important places.

Structural integrity of frame is adversely affected.

Front clip and hood are OK.

Ft. Axle: Tie rod ends loose.

Incorrect spring bolts.

Lt side wheel brgs loose.

Rear Axle: Appears to be ok- no visible leaks.

Exhaust: Pieced together from short pieces of straight tube and flex-pipe. Hung with bailing wire only. Laying on T-case. No converters.

Engine: Incorrect p/s brackets.
" alternator bracket

Engine mounts tacked to frame only- needs to be properly welded
to frame.

Through-bolts have no nuts, coming out.

No dust cover on converter.

T-case crossmember has only one bolt per side- will fall out or
break w/ easy use.

Vent tube missing from trans.

Transmission throttle pressure cable not connected to throttle
linkage- will cause trans failure.

Radiator damaged from fan clutch.

pics

Just reread the ad on ebay...

You bought that for $4350??

Looks like you got a pretty good price, regardless of most of the flaws you're pointing out

Caveat emptor!

I would never buy a big ticket item like that sight unseen. But like Mo said, it doesn't look that bad, other than needing 1' of overhang lopped off ;). Are you expecting perfection for $4,500?? :confused:

This is probably the wrong place to be posting this.

However, I would say you got a decent deal. The truck doesn't look that bad. Most of us here have welders and could easily fix what is wrong with it.

I think the guy at Beartrax was trying to make money. Incorrect brackets? Who gives a phuck? Do the hold the belt on? Is the belt tight? Works for me.
The body rot could be easily fixed. Did you ask for pictures beyond what you saw on Ebay? The frame is also very common rot. There are repair panels out there for just this issue.

You do know that a CJ-8 is a rare bird? Most people pay twice that amount.

Well.. before you all tell him who cares... what gives with this?


from ebay ad:

" Typical minor old Jeep surface rust. Nothing major. Very good floorboards. Body is straight with original decals on sides. Hood decals have peeled off due to age. Frame and body mounts are solid. Windshield has crack on passenger side. Runs and shifts fantastic."

Followed by these comments:

"Frame: Rusted through at rt. rr. spring hanger area. Will break with easy use, safety hazard. "

Sounds to me like false advertising. I mean.. if its rusted through... how could it be "solid"?

Originally posted by twaldher
Well.. before you all tell him who cares... what gives with this?

"Frame: Rusted through at rt. rr. spring hanger area. Will break with easy use, safety hazard. "

Sounds to me like false advertising. I mean.. if its rusted through... how could it be "solid"?

I'd be shocked if it wasn't rusted there, ever seen one that wasn't? It's such a common problem they sell a repair kit for it.

For under $5K, I'd say you got a deal.

I'd say your mechanic is a little anal as well, most of that stuff is no big deal.

I didn't say it wasn't a good deal. Just said that they falsely advertised. Rusted clear through is most definately not solid.

Get a lawyer, get it done.

Originally posted by twaldher
I didn't say it wasn't a good deal. Just said that they falsely advertised. Rusted clear through is most definately not solid.

True enough, given the list of defects that the mechanic gave, I'm guessing it's not as bad as it sounds.

What the heck is an incorrect spring bolt??

Originally posted by Oxjockey
Get a lawyer, get it done.

The new American way, right?? :rolleyes:

I think he got a pretty good deal, and if he thinks that $4,500 is gonna buy a showroom quality Scrambler, he's wrong. There's nothing listed wrong that won't take a few full weekends to fix.

Originally posted by Welby


The new American way, right?? :rolleyes:


If he was truly defrauded, get a lawyer and take care of it. I'm not saying to file a frivolous lawsuit for $18M, but someone who knows about these things (contracts) needs to take care of it.

Of course, taking the delivery of the vehicle is another story. But he held up his end of the contract based on information provided in the ad. I'm not saying he didn't get a good deal. I was *really* saying just take care of it and stop whining to us! :D


Bryan

$4500 will buy you a running scrambler. You got one with a strong drivetrain. Overall you got a good deal. I was offered $4000 for mine and it had no drivetrain and stock axles.

I'm not going to say it wasn't mis-represented, because it certainly sounds like it was...

Originally posted by Mo
$4500 will buy you a running scrambler. You got one with a strong drivetrain. Overall you got a good deal. I was offered $4000 for mine and it had no drivetrain and stock axles.

I'm not going to say it wasn't mis-represented, because it certainly sounds like it was...

Exactly... I would warn people off about that company, contact the better business bearu (sp) but other than that... who cares. you got a good drivetrain in that package. for the most part though... Sounds like your 20 year industry mechanic is either VERY anal or was hoping to line his pockets when it comes to some of the nit picky stuff. But then again.. he could be right... we haven't seen pics.

I've beceome convinced that the ONLY cost effective way to get a scrambler is to buy a CJ-5/7, a fiberglass tub, and a welder.

but yeah, I'd at least investigate a law suit rather than pay for a misrepresented productthat you're not happy with

At that price you should be able to re sell it and get out from under it pretty easy and buy another one. Hell for that price someone restoring one might want it. Chiatt, it could be your parts jeep for your pristine CJ8. Either way, good luck on your project!:beer:

Originally posted by oldjeep


I'd be shocked if it wasn't rusted there, ever seen one that wasn't? It's such a common problem they sell a repair kit for it.

For under $5K, I'd say you got a deal.

I'd say your mechanic is a little anal as well, most of that stuff is no big deal.

They sell a repair kit???? Wow lifes different in the sunny no rust climes.

I tend to agree with most. The frame, and tub sound like misrepresentation. The other stuff sounds like an old inexpensive Jeep.

Maybe this will put it in perspective. I just sold a totally stock Scrambler that was rust free. as in CA style rust free (meaning no rust.) I sold it for 6K it ran well, and the original paint looked shiny and good. It had just over 100k on it. This was a very good deal for the buyer. It sold before I had it cleaned up. I know it needed work, but it was very drivable as is. Like yours. the $1500 would have bought you a much better 8 than it sounds like you got.

I know this is totally off the topic, but am I the only one that thinks that there is no way that hardtop is factory as described in the Ebay ad? I'm no Scramble guru, but I don't recall ever seeing an AMC produced full length hardtop, and if there was such an animal, I don't think it would look like that, that looks like an ACME top or something.

Originally posted by 4Bangler
I know this is totally off the topic, but am I the only one that thinks that there is no way that hardtop is factory as described in the Ebay ad? I'm no Scramble guru, but I don't recall ever seeing an AMC produced full length hardtop, and if there was such an animal, I don't think it would look like that, that looks like an ACME top or something.

Yep... was a factory option, at least I'm reasonably confident it was.

Jeepguy1 got ripped off. Even if he paid a grand for that pile of shit, it was misrepresented. The guy wrote that the frame was solid, major rust is not solid.:flipoff2: This issue deals more with ethics not with weather Jeepguy got a good price or not.

I know this is totally off the topic, but am I the only one that thinks that there is no way that hardtop is factory as described in the Ebay ad? I'm no Scramble guru, but I don't recall ever seeing an AMC produced full length hardtop, and if there was such an animal, I don't think it would look like that, that looks like an ACME top or something

Actually, a full hard top was never an option.

Actually, a full hard top was never an option


not certain just working off of memory but wasnt there sales lit. with a photo of them with a full top like on the side of a mountain or how ever they usually did there photos:beer:

A lot of that sounds like grey area- a shop asked to critique will do just that. If the seller knows the rust was there but the vehicle has been wheeled hard or daily driven then he may have good reason to say structurally sound.

Tough to buy a vehicle over the net. There is consumer protection law and something called buyers remorse- you can legally back out of a deal within 3 days of purchase- no questions asked.

for what it's worth- pristine stock scramblers have been going for 40k+. I wouldn't expect $4500 to buy much jeep, let alone scrambler. if you really want a good one you're best off making one out of a 7 as suggested.

good luck to you.

M.O.R.E has a weld on frame plate kit that might help you out

http://www.mountainoffroad.com/catalog/FramePlates/framep.htm

Originally posted by G02Guy
There is consumer protection law and something called buyers remorse- you can legally back out of a deal within 3 days of purchase- no questions asked.

depends on which state.

in CA, there is no "cooling off" period.

Im going to chime in here a sec guys cause this hits close to home. I dont know the going rate on CJ8 but for around this area I would say you got ripped. I visit them once a week just to harasse those guys and laugh at them. He had that Scrambler on his lot for 4mo listed at $7000!!! And before that it was a primer black one in even worse condition then that for $5000. For this area (SW MO) that is a rip. Example: Here a year ago a guy was selling one that had a 350 swap, 44 fr & rr, SOA, in decent (ie bondo and primer) condition for $5200. $5200!!! I shit you not. My friend bought one 6 mo ago for $4000 in stock condition. Scramblers are fairly common in this area. I can get a number of a guy that deals in mainly CJ8, buying, selling, and parts.

Back to 4 State. Those guys are a joke and con artist. I always wondered how they sold their sh!t because noone around here buys it. I wouldnt dobt that they slapped anything they had in their shop on that thing just to get it on the road because its what they do with most of their stuff.

Sorry I didnt mean to vent but those guys are BS and they need something done to their a$$'s. I would laugh my ass off to see someone sue David, god forbid he have to sell one of his 3 "mas mocho" TJ's. You wont see him driving any of his sh!t, I promise that.

Sorry I will go back to my hole now.....XXJ

That's actually the same part of MO that I bought my Scrambler... a bit south of Joplin somewhere. This was 4 years ago or so. I paid $3500 - extremely tired 360, half dead T18/D20 combo, stock axles.

Probably down around Neosho. Thats where I see alot of them.

Who would spend $4,000 on something they couldn't see for themselves? Hell.......even if you were to inspect it with your own eyes you'd probably still find something months down the road that you didn't notice at first.

Contact Ebay........submit negative feedback for the seller. I'd leave something like.......

"Jeep bad condition, seller falsely described, email for pictures, aaa@anymail.com"

Remember that your "feedback" can only be so long and CAN NOT be deleted. You've already tried to resolve the dispute. Negative feedback such as above will put a damper on his ebay business. I for one check feedback when I buy on ebay and if I seen your feedback I would personally email you for details.

Still.........what more could you ask for in spending $4,000 and not seeing the vehicle? Hell.........you got some nice shiney nerf bars on that rig! :flipoff2: