Well I have been following the various threads over the last week or so regarding Emergency Services while out in the wilderness. This is my 2 cents worth. First off I am not the last word on this subject. However I can post my experience in this subject. I have been involved with El Dorado County Search & Rescue since 1994. Was the OHV Team Captain for 2 years then moved on to President of El Dorado Counties SAR Team for 2 ½ years. I have been a Medical Professional since 1995. Also been a HAM Radio General Class operator since 1989. I have been to some of the best Survival Classes as well as Wilderness Medicine and Man Tracking. My other half (Crickett also a Medical Professional and a HAM Operator) and myself can be seen at almost any 4WD event in California from TTC to Sierra Trek to CALRocs and many others providing Medical Support. I am also an avid Rock Crawler with what I would consider a very competent rig. Now that my resume is finished…

Secondly I apologize for the fact that Search & Rescue was not out on the trail last weekend to help with the roll over injury. But this is exactly what I am getting at. Folks we play in a dangerous hobby. People get hurt and killed doing what we do. Therefore we must take our own responsibility for where we play. This means personal safety items like seat belts, roll bars, and yes helmets. I do not profess to say helmets should be worn all the time but you will know when it is time. (i.e. your children, friends?) You might remember about a month or so ago that Lance (Fat Bustard) wrote a thread talking about helmets. Yea, coulda, woulda, shoulda are big words, but again I state, we must take our own responsibility. Thou I would like to see our SAR Team out on the trail all wheeling season it is just not practical. We are all volunteers and we must still earn a living.

Medical this is my advice coming from my experience. Someone in your family should take at least a real good First Aid/CPR class. That way whomever you wheel with their will be several who can help (Not to say those with children will absolutely use the knowledge) Some companies that you may work at will even pay for the classes if you just ask. They see it as an advantage in the work place. Most of us belong to some kind of Club. Someone in the club should take an EMT Class at your local college. Only takes one semester to get the certification. EVERYONE should have a good first aid kit. Not one of those grocery store $9.95 jobs. Go to a Medical supply store. Yes they cost more but what is your spouse or kid worth? Explain to them that they are only worth the $9.95 first aid kit.

Communications This is a delicate area. But first lets discuss this CB Channel 9 thing. IT NO LONGER EXISTS!! Yes at one time there was a volunteer organization named REACT. People that were in the CB Craze era back in the 70’s listened 24/7. I am amazed on how many people think that it still exists. Yes in some areas it does, but don’t count on it or expect someone is listening. Then there are cell phones. Don’t count on them; heck they don’t even work in metropolitan areas half the time. People have talked about HAM Radio. It is easy to get a license. Somewhere around 53 questions and it’s a multiple guess test. You can even study on line at www.qrz.com There one can even find out where to test. With a HAM there is a set calling frequency 146.520. Even better most areas have repeater coverage. Your local HAM Club can tell you what frequency. In the Rubicon we have a great system 146.805 neg pl 123.0 It has Handi Talki coverage almost thru the whole trail. As far as the FCC goes it is lawful to be unlicensed and use a HAM Radio when Life & Property is at risk. This is great!! But one must also be responsible enough to recognize that one is not licensed and cannot use it to talk to your licensed friends on the trail. Mention was made that a guy with a HAM Radio was programming his local USFS, CDF, Law freqs in his radio. This is a major NO NO. Your HAM Radio is not designed to operate on those freqs. Though you may think it is operating fine you are causing serious interference from bad transmissions in other frequency areas. The FEDS come down hard on this. Not only that since HAM Radios are not designed for that frequency area they tend to be deaf and put out very little power.

In closing (Getting off my soap box) you must realize that you are not going to a movie with the kids at the mall. You are in a mechanized machine in the wilderness doing possibly deadly harmful things. If you are going to do this then at least be prepared. You wouldn’t dream of going on the CON with loose lug nuts and a noisy gearbox would you? Then why would you go with out the items you need to help/save your own hide?

Well there is my 2 cents worth. I am prepared to accept the flame job I am sure to get, but oh well. When you see me on the trail I will have with me Helmet, Advanced First Aid Kit, Ham Radio, Cell Phone, and extra food for 2 additional days past my trip. Laugh if you will but I am prepared.


SAR_Sammy
KD6DMH
Mike

Well said, Mike....

No flames here.....good stuff. Thanks.

i know i feel alot more educated about HAM radio. thanks :D

I'm flameless:D Well Done SAR_Sammy!

It may not be cool to do the boyscout thing anymore, but having spent an unexpected night in the wilderness in WA while elk hunting on time I whole heartily agree with being prepared for anything.

I think we should do a pole to see how many people cary first aid kits

Thanks for what you do Mike

Well said.

Mike this is why your the medical coordinator for CalROCS.

KUDO"S KUDO"S

Thanks
Rich

Nicely stated, Mike. I hope the BB can take this as advice (lesson learned) and not criticism for how this past event played out.

I've been an EMT for over 12 years, and last year I took a Wilderness First Responder course. I just spent the winter working as a Ski Patrol and responded to 109 positive (read: paperwork) incidents on the hill. In those I did CPR on a dead guy, splinted numerable fractions and called in a helicopter on 8 occasions. Learned a lot about real world trauma.

Still, this weekend's past incident has taught me a few things. I will add two things to my first aid kit: a GPS (and batteries) as I don't use it for anything else, and a container of smoke for landing a chopper. I will also make sure if I do get a hold of 911 on my cell phone to find out what channel I can talk to the helicopter pilot on with my CB. They can change their frenquencies to match CB, and talking to them will help guide them in. You may see or hear them, but it's very difficult for them to spot you.

Thanks for the post, Mike.

Paul

BTW - if SAR needs help, I'd love to volunteer my time. Coming from the Bay Area, though.

Ok, here is one for you SAR_Sammy (or anyone for that matter). What are the best kits out there for wheelers? Obviously there are limits, and there are kits with a bunch of stuff "we" (wheelers) will likely never use or need (or know how to use for that matter). Seems like I remember a website somewhere that listed a very complete emergency backpack list. Obviously we could wing it, but suggestions might help? Also obviously, best value would be good...

I took my WFR course from these guys and have used them to buy supplies. http://www.wildmedcenter.com/kits1.html I welcome other suggestions for where to get supplies.

As you stated, though, you have to know how to use what you have. An OPA won't do you any good if you use it for digging your bearings out of your front hub.

Mike suggested taking courses. I'm going to take it a step further - I believe that EVERYONE should take an EMT level course as a requirement in high school. Too much is at stake, and too many bad situations could be helped.

Paul

i was study to be a ranger before i got married and had my daughter. got numerous certs in rescue. had my emt1a(but it has lasped) and cpr. only used it once my daughter was still an infant and swallowed to much milk/air and was choking the price and time for my training was well worth it.

sarsammy quick question ham radio as i've seen it(in a buddy's house) was a relatively large unit like a computer monitor size(was like 10 years ago) how are they sized now for portability:D

I'll throw my two cents in about Amateur Radio (My wife makes fun of that HAM sh#T)

Portabilty versus capability is unbelievable, There are hand helds smaller than cell phones...Mobiles about 3/4 size CBs that put out 70 watts (vs 4 for CBs)

Coverage that FAR exceeds cell phones

During the "Colorado is on fire" statement from our Govenor, Amateur radio was doing most of the interagency communciations because of its coverage deep into the canyons.

Reliability, You've go a ark load full of absolute geeks working on repeaters that have battery/generator backups, have land line phone interconnects. When the doo doo hits the fan and you are in a remote area with one cell tower that 100 users are trying to use and all you get is Fast busy, Full duplex amateur radio WORKS.

Ok so it ain't cool to be associated with a group of old farts (average age of ham radio op is over 50!) But I can tell you I have had some cool contacts: The SPACE SHUTTLE, MIR, over 75 diiferent countries and bunch of geeks that I call to help me figure out the dam wiring on my truck...

Any questions?

Howard
KA1SUR

I consider myself lucky considering there are 3 EMTs and one firefighter in my club, always plenty of know-how on hand. It is very comforting to know these guys and gals are out with us. I will not take it for granted after reading the rollover thread.

i there are a few members in my family that are ham'S,my father (kc6vwm) past away last year, and my grand father (w6isu) i was going to take the general class test when i has 14 but i couldn't get to reno in time (lived in elko nv.) and i had a hard time with morse code. but i gave up when i got a dirt bike. i want to get back in to it but i need some one to hold my hand. any one up to the challenge???? i have all the equipment but don't know how to use it. i figured out machanical things in life, not electrical things:D thanks


Cliff

Mike,
I was a statistic on the Con exactly a year ago today when I rolled my CJ in the Little Sluice. Putting my arm out to steady myself on the way over, to the pass seat I promptly dislocated my shoulder. I couldn't even get my right arm up to the ignition switch to stop cavitaton. My wife was there. She is an L&D Nurse but knew nothing about how to re-socket a dislocated shoulder. The pain was intense. I was laying on the ground, near passing out for about a half hour. A passer-by on foot recognized our plight and hurried to his camp telling his buddie that we had some woe. The buddie returned with a book called, "Wilderness 911". He rehearsed everyone on what to do, BY THE BOOK. It took several folks pulling, holding and twisting and.... it popped right back in. I have since recoved, but now have my own red covered book in a ziplock under the pass seat entitled, "Wilderness, 911". Can't recommend it more highly. The trouble is, you need to have much of this information and/or training down BEFORE you need it, not under pressure, frantically trying to stem a massive hemmorage or reset some broken something as the sun is going down. I always carry a high bucks first aid kit with enough goodies to quick-fix almost anybody.
Nice peice Mike. I've noticed liquor has a direct, 1:1, connection to trail stupidity.
regards, as always, jefe

One thing should be said about SAR though......... And for those that are in SAR and have a clue on this board... please don't take offense.

I have been involved in a SAR activity out in my area. I was completely and totally unimpressed by their lack tracking/search abilities, at least in the people in charge. they didn't even know what a search pattern was.

The rescuer's almost got lost in the night looking... had some of my buddies not pointed them back in the right direction to base camp. (ok.. admittedly we knew the area...but damn.. they had maps and compasses)

Bottom line.. don't depend on SAR to come save your ass. be 100% self reliant, and in my case... if I get lost.. I'm calling my club.

Travis

THIS (http://www.copper.com/cgi-bin/checkitout/checkitout.cgi?catalogSTORE:CKIE:prodE50-00004+) radio will reach out and touch someone in the backcountry. Combine this with a top-o-the-line antenna, and you should be set.

I used to run a Wilson 5000 on a magnet mount. It got out great, and with the magnet mount, I didn't have to worry about ripping the mount off. I just stuck it to the back of the truck bed if I was having problems keeping it on the roof. I still had it when I needed it then.

Originally posted by SAR_Sammy
Therefore we must take our own responsibility for where we play.



Personal Responsibility in 21st century America. Now there's a novel concept.:rolleyes:

Great post Sammy. I need to get off my ass and do a bunch of that stuff.

One ?? about HAM. Can you receive/transmit CB channels on a HAM radio?

I just wanted to throw in my $.02 on what a good first aid kit should contain. I think the most important thing is having the knowledge of what to do in an emergency. This is by far the most important thing since you need to know what to do with the stuff in the first aid kit. Taking a class would be best, but if you are not going to do that then having a really good first aid book is an absolute must for the first aid kit. And read it before you go on the trail. That way you have some idea what to do and can you can still use the book to refresh your memory.

As for what to put in the first aid kit, I would suggest the following:
- 4 x 4 gauze and lots of them
- tape (duct tape, athletic tape, stretchy tape) a couple of rolls
- something to use as a splint (wood, aluminum) ~ 20" long
- something to use as a sling (a triangle of fabric works well)
- variety of bandaids
- aspirin or ibuprofen (tylenol is not anti inflamatory)
- small medical scissors
- betadine or peroxide
- Ace bandage
- rolls of gauze
- latex or nitrile gloves

This should cover most of your typical emergencies in the wilderness. It isn't a complete list and if anyone wants to add to it by all means please do, but it covers the basics and you can use the stuff for many purposes. You can buy most of the stuff at a drug store or find it around you home, but if you want to purchase a kit most backpacking catalogs carry good ones for around $50. I hope this helps.

Originally posted by 85TrailToy
One ?? about HAM. Can you receive/transmit CB channels on a HAM radio?

Bruce can! Of course, he's got 8 radios in his rig at last count.. :laughing:

But really, it's against FCC law to operate over 5 watts on CB freq's last time I heard. Bruce actually uses a CB. Cool thing is, his UHF radio also does the popular "talkabout" style radios, and comes through LOUD & clear.

I'll never forget the year I went on the Molina Ghost run and the EMT guy was killed when he tried to jump out of his jeep that was rolling down the hill..

Lesson there - relying on one med person may not work.

I always carry a first aid kit and you'd be surprised how often I use it, usually giving out stuff (make sure you fill it back up).

Also, if your work offers CPR training - take it! I could NEVER be a doctor, I practically faint at the site of blood but I have been taking the training and try to be prepared..

I just recently got my Tech, and I'm looking at radios now. I'm still undecided on getting either a hand held or a mobile to mount in my truck. I'm leaning towards the hand held because it's so much more mobile, but at the same time, I'd like to have a lilttle more than 5 watts. What do you guys use? Or recomend?
Thanks,

KG6LBQ :D

Adding to this list, Theres a wrap meterial called VET wrap, you can get it at your local pet stores that carry horse products. Carry 2 rolls of it. ITs extremly clingy and will hold things together better then duct tape.

Its designed to hold gauze and other things in place but allow the injury to breath. We use them for dogs and horses..

I have used some on make shift splints, to hold gauze on ETC..

If you are going for your basic certification I recommend talking to the local animal shelters and learn Dog and Cat CPR as well as talking to your local red cross and learning Human CPR. Lots of people take there animals on the trail and being prepaired weather it be an animal or a human is worth its weight in gold.


Originally posted by Suprdlux
I just wanted to throw in my $.02 on what a good first aid kit should contain. I think the most important thing is having the knowledge of what to do in an emergency. This is by far the most important thing since you need to know what to do with the stuff in the first aid kit. Taking a class would be best, but if you are not going to do that then having a really good first aid book is an absolute must for the first aid kit. And read it before you go on the trail. That way you have some idea what to do and can you can still use the book to refresh your memory.

As for what to put in the first aid kit, I would suggest the following:
- 4 x 4 gauze and lots of them
- tape (duct tape, athletic tape, stretchy tape) a couple of rolls
- something to use as a splint (wood, aluminum) ~ 20" long
- something to use as a sling (a triangle of fabric works well)
- variety of bandaids
- aspirin or ibuprofen (tylenol is not anti inflamatory)
- small medical scissors
- betadine or peroxide
- Ace bandage
- rolls of gauze
- latex or nitrile gloves

This should cover most of your typical emergencies in the wilderness. It isn't a complete list and if anyone wants to add to it by all means please do, but it covers the basics and you can use the stuff for many purposes. You can buy most of the stuff at a drug store or find it around you home, but if you want to purchase a kit most backpacking catalogs carry good ones for around $50. I hope this helps.

A couple things about radios.

CB is antiquated junk for children. Even using a 25 watt Ranger radio on the 10 meter band or freq it to work on the cb band still ain't much help.

To Rabbit, hand helds excel in the following areas:

Very portable, relatively inexpensive.

Downside is short battery life at over 1 or 2 watts tx, the speakers may not be able to be heard while driving, it rolls around if not secured in the vehicle and to get better range you must use an exterior antenna. Buy the exterior antenna, the adapter and extra batteries or an inverter all cost money, which leads us to the mobile

The benefit of a mobile is:

High power, connected to the vehilce battery, speakers are better, better display, solidly mounted in the rig.

For the mobile I have a Yaesu FT1500. It is Yaesu's bottom of the line 2 meter mobile. It is built like a brick. You could drive over it.
It has stood up well for miles of washboard and dust and heat and cold--and is still rocking! You can find one for around 129 bucks. Couple it with, say a Diamond 770 antenna and a repeater guide and you are out the door for under 275 bucks.


I cringe every time I think of how much frustration and money I wasted on cb gear everytime I key up on my 2 meter rig.

Well said man. I lready decided after my bad rollover when I get the rig back up and goin again me and my passenger will wear helmets.

Lots of good ideas and comments came back. The main idea of my posting was just to get people thinking about how dangerous our hobby really is. And to bring into perspective on how un-prepared the average person or group is while out on the trail. Various comments were made regarding that the masses should take a high-end medical class. We must remember that we are still John Q Public. Meaning today’s life styles will just not permit us to all take classes. With kids, work, soccer games, baseball, and all the others things we complicate our lives with. We would be lucky if we could all just get one family member to just take a basic First Aid/CPR class.

Some have asked for First Aid Kits recommendations. The list is long and wide, but this is a good idea. I am not saying to go out and buy this. Items in this kit can be found around the house or purchased at the Drug Store. The idea is to collect it into a common place that everyone knows where to find it.

http://www.life-assist.com/kits/kit60.html

Additional some have asked for HAM Radio advice. The advice given earlier about the Yeasu 1500 is a good one. Tough as nails and can take a beating. But you must remember that unless you take the 53 question test and pass you can only use it for an emergency. Most of us are not disciplined enough to stay off it when we hear our licensed friends yakin on the trail. So go out and take the test just to save on the FCC hassle.

As for the folks that got hurt last weekend, I did not intend to offend or beat up on you guys. What happened I see over and over again. When people get Lost or Hurt it is never just one mistake. It is always a combination of various mistakes that get us into trouble. So you are the norm with the most of us. I hope your husband recovers quickly…

SAR_Sammy
Mike

Radios: Handheld vs. vehicle.

My $0.02 - both.

A very cool feature of the Ham setup is the ability of using the in vehicle unit as a repeater for a handheld. In the one ugly situation I was involved in, the handheld was down the hill with the ejected passenger with a knowledgeable EMT, while the base was on the trail 200ft above.

As was pointed out, a handheld is pretty cheap, and compared to CB (capability wise) the in vehicle radios are a bargain.

Jim

MORE HAM RADIO INFO:

www.arrl.org/hamradio.html
www.w5yi.com
www.hamradio.com

THAT (10meter Ranger) piece won't help... It is already on the amateur freq (could be modded), but VHF/UHF 2meter and 70cm is What you want if you ever want to get help.

Originally posted by Eskimo


Bruce can! Of course, he's got 8 radios in his rig at last count.. :laughing:



I wish I had a pic of his interior.:eek: I saw it but it's still hard to figure how he got them all in there! I'm guessing some of them are the same type of radio just on different freq's??

Originally posted by J-Bone
CB is antiquated junk for children. Even using a 25 watt Ranger radio on the 10 meter band or freq it to work on the cb band still ain't much help.




Uhhh... what??:confused: Could you translate this to english please?:D

Originally posted by SAR_Sammy
Lots of good ideas and comments came back. The main idea of my posting was just to get people thinking about how dangerous our hobby really is. And to bring into perspective on how un-prepared the average person or group is while out on the trail. Various comments were made regarding that the masses should take a high-end medical class. We must remember that we are still John Q Public. Meaning today’s life styles will just not permit us to all take classes. With kids, work, soccer games, baseball, and all the others things we complicate our lives with. We would be lucky if we could all just get one family member to just take a basic First Aid/CPR class.

Some have asked for First Aid Kits recommendations. The list is long and wide, but this is a good idea. I am not saying to go out and buy this. Items in this kit can be found around the house or purchased at the Drug Store. The idea is to collect it into a common place that everyone knows where to find it.

http://www.life-assist.com/kits/kit60.html

Additional some have asked for HAM Radio advice. The advice given earlier about the Yeasu 1500 is a good one. Tough as nails and can take a beating. But you must remember that unless you take the 53 question test and pass you can only use it for an emergency. Most of us are not disciplined enough to stay off it when we hear our licensed friends yakin on the trail. So go out and take the test just to save on the FCC hassle.

As for the folks that got hurt last weekend, I did not intend to offend or beat up on you guys. What happened I see over and over again. When people get Lost or Hurt it is never just one mistake. It is always a combination of various mistakes that get us into trouble. So you are the norm with the most of us. I hope your husband recovers quickly…

SAR_Sammy
Mike

Got a just curious question for you. I was asked once, during that one SAR that I supported to get a 4x4 division started. Now... I thought about it... but decided against it for the following reasons:

1) Leadership above me was a joke
2) Major hassle to be hindered by said leadership later.
3) The Buddy system runs rampant, your no one unless your best buds with the leadership.

oh hell it gets back to the leaders not having a clue. Guessing there is no way around that... but since you are on this inside... thought I would ask.

Anyone got a link for where to get their FCC test? and the study materials? Can't be that hard to get the radio license with only 53 questions or so.

Originally posted by 85TrailToy


I wish I had a pic of his interior.:eek: I saw it but it's still hard to figure how he got them all in there! I'm guessing some of them are the same type of radio just on different freq's??

A couple of them are remote units, and the control box/amp section are behind the seats/under the seat, so all that's between the seats are the control heads with a mic.

He's also got bucket seats in there and no center console.. He actually added another radio in recently and had to mount it to the ceiling, as he had no more room on the bottom!! :eek: :eek: Oh yeah, and the ceiling is full of speakers for the various radios.. :D

He's disconected his airbags for reasons such as those... I think the funniest view is the center dash area, with mics hanging everywhere!

ok.. someone has to have pics.

right now I am envisionaing that :rainbow: car with all the junk glued on to the dash. :flipoff2:

The best place I have found to study for the test is www.qrz.com . The test questions are the same that will be on the test and it should tell you were around you to take the test also. I hope you have better encounters with SAR. We try very hard to have a possitive image but there is always that one......:D

I know Mike said a "good first aid class"
but not many of us can find the time, I take one through my City, Go to your local community center, cost is about 2 bucks for 2 saturdays (about 4 hours each day), you learn the basic stuff, nothin fancy, but enough that i feel comfortable out there

Originally posted by Carl Balderston
The best place I have found to study for the test is www.qrz.com . The test questions are the same that will be on the test and it should tell you were around you to take the test also. I hope you have better encounters with SAR. We try very hard to have a possitive image but there is always that one......:D

Yeah... maybe someday I will. Up here at least.. SAR needs to get its head out of its butt. hehe... there are only 2 4x4 divisions I know of. one of themis made up of stock 4x4 pickup trucks. (aka.. my tow rig is a good example) the came back down off the mountain calling it unpassable. We just idled on through and cleared out trees for them for 3 miles in the middle of the night in case they needed back up. (can't we charge the loggin company for that? hehe)

Granted.. SAR is all volunteer, but in some cases... its better to have no one... than have someone half prepared. In the 4x4's case.. sure.. not everyone can afford to cruise around in $30-60,000 rigs, break their stuff, then fix it that night to go out again. But jeez... that gets back to.. if the the rescuers aren't equipped... why are they out there thing.

Great post Mike!!!
I will be installing my Ham radio soon!
As well as joining the SAR team.....It has been a couple years since I was in the Medical field, but it felt good to help someone out on the trail.....(not that it was a good thing that Jerry got hurt!)

I spent 6 years in the Navy as a Medic, and worked in an ER for 3 of those years.....Ive seen tons of trauma and like Paul, I have stitched, splinted, gave CPR.....done many many things!

Another thing that Mike was right about is the $10 first aid kit!

Here is a good list of items to pack in a soft bag or an old fishing box or something to take on the trail.

Medical reference book
Anakit (for anaphylactic shock)
Aspirin
Antihistamines
Antinauseants/motion-sickness agents
Sunscreen
Sterile gauze, various sizes
Spenco Second Skin, various sizes
Adhesive tape
Butterfly strips
Q-tips
Triangular bandages and safety pins
Moleskin
Pocket rescue mask (for artificial resuscitation)
Surgical forceps
Magnifying glass
Penlight
Scissors
Scalpel and blades
Syringe with wide-bore needle for irrigation
Oral thermometer in protective case
Sam Splint (soft splint)
Elastic bandages, 2" and 6"
Suture equipment if doctor or veterinarian is on trip
Aspirin or Tylenol - 100 tablets
Laxative - 10 tablets
Anti-diarrhoea tablets - 25
Band-Aids of varying size and shape - 30
Sterile gauze pads, 4 " squares - 5
Porous adhesive tape, 1" wide - 1
Waterproof adhesive tape, 1" wide - 1
Spenco Second Skin (for burns), 2" x 4" - 4
Elastic bandage, 3" wide - 1
Triangular bandages - 2
Safety pins - 10
Antiseptic cleaning solution - 2 ounces
Calamine lotion - small bottle
Scissors - 1
Tweezers - 1
500 CC's of Normal Saline Solution


Please all of us be careful, and prepared!

Mike,

Good Stuff.... one additional item for the first aid kit:

syrup of Ipecac

My ex is a OR Tech, so she was pretty good about making sure the first aid kit was up to snuff. Yes, I even took the 4 hour CPR and first aid emergency class (need a refresher -- local fire deparments are a good contact for the instructors. Something like $10). Oldest kids are 12, probably not a bad idea for them to attend a CPR/Emergency class with me.

We always kept the Ipecac and other first aid fluids on the top shelf of the refrigerator door (home). Longer shelf life when chilled and in an emergency you need to be able to find that stuff fast!

As I was about to leave the house, after getting the kids off the school, I discovered my DOG had gotten into a large brick of rat posion. Called the VET asap, and got instructions to pour 8 oz Hyrogen Proxide down his throught. Ever try that with a year old puppy? Got about 0.5 oz in him. I remembered the Ipecac, and got that down him, which he liked the taste off... one very sick dog who had eaten more than I realized. Funny, but grateful the one time I needed it, I knew exactly were to find it.

Dog recovered after the vitamin K therapy, but man did he have blood shot eyes!

Oh... the rat poison was a mystery. Seems my ex's girlfriend was the one who brought it over to the house. She is an odd one, and knew I suffered from bleeding ulcers at the time. Always wondered about that!!! :eek:

Tom :usa:

At the roll over this weekend, while treating Jerry, my first aide kit was efficient, but wish I had more sterile pads and more wrap. The scarry thing was that I almost left camp and left the kit behind. Went back to get it. Thank God! One thing to make sure you carry all the time would be a blanket of some sort. We did not have any with us, so I went to the rolled jeep and cut off the bikini top. I used it to cover him, and the sun was able to warm it up a little, so I got lucky with that. I heard you can get one of those space blankets(metallic foil looking) at a surplus store. It sould fit into a good size er kit.

Thanks SAR Sammy for the post. I have gathered some very good ideas from other people.

Twaldher,

The tech license exam is only 26 questions. No Morse Code requirement. Most study manuals have the question pool in the back.

The two main manuals are the ARRL Study manual Now You're Talking, available almost anywhere, and Gordon Wests manual.

The ARRL teaches you more than is required on the test, and it is comprehensive. West's primarily teaches you to pass the test.

www.hamtest.com
www.qrz.com as a link too.

good job, well said:)

I just took, and passed the Ham tech class license test.

I've got the book, "Now your talking" for passing the tech class test.

I'll give it away to anyone in the SFBay area that wants it. All you have to do is use it, and try to pass the test.

Originally posted by tdavis
I just took, and passed the Ham tech class license test.

I've got the book, "Now your talking" for passing the tech class test.

I'll give it away to anyone in the SFBay area that wants it. All you have to do is use it, and try to pass the test.
You can send it to me in sac.....Ill pay for the shipping!

heard you can get one of those space blankets(metallic foil looking) at a surplus store. It sould fit into a good size er kit.

the ones i've seen come sealed in a little bag size of a deck of cards just unfold it also they make(about same size) space sleeping bags where you can put a person in it so there body heat bounces around the "shiny foil" and keeps them toasty
:D

I got my Ham license through a Ham Cram. It's basically an all day forced study session, and then you take the test that same day. I knew nothing about amature radio at all the day I went there. There was about 6 of us from my work (SF Department of Public Works) that went to get our licenses just in case we ever needed to use our city issued ham radios in the case of an emergency where the phone and standard two way radio comunications go down. Anyways, at the Ham Cram they basically gave us a book full of the questions and the correct answers. We just read every chapter over and over again, only looking at the correct answers. At the end of the day, when we took the test, the correct answers were obivous and we all easily passed. I've also got the "Now you're talking" book and I plan on reading it as soon as I get some free time. With the Ham Cram, you really don't learn much about amature radio, but it does get ya on the air, and it only costs around $30. ;)

Good point man I thought of getting helmets for my boys and didn't and the little one got a blackeye just sitting in his carseat. If they need one for bikes and sk8boards why not a OHV. The wife is in the medical field so that's a plus. And for god's sake go over with them that there hands and toys must never be outside of the vehicle give them a handle or something but look at the wife and kids next time your off camber where is there hands on the bar? Next time your club has a raffle with prizes throw a 5 point harness in there.;) Really good stuff man

Great thread. I put together a small page about the benefits of ham radio to four wheelers http://www.explorer4x4.com/radio.html

Most of the info there has already been discussed here, but take a look at the photo of the "radio active" Samurai at the top of the page. It's really something else! And YES it is REAL not Photo Chopped.

I'm an EMT-B here in Utah (soon to lapse though) and I can say that these are great things to know. My friends that I wheel with all feel pretty good knowing that I'm around just incase something goes bad. But like others have said at the very least set something up with the local fire/rescue station on a first aide/CPR class at the very minimum.

Somebody said they had their WEMT? who did you go through and how much did you pay? Also did you have to travel to take the class?

Also someone made the comment on being able to communicate with a chopper via CB. From what radio training I do have in the cockpit you can't dial up CB freq on an aircraft radio system. I believe you might be refering to a handheld transceiver. Maybe I'm mistaken though, but I'll ask one of my instructors (also life flight pilot) about it.

Great post and very glad to see this sort of discussion.
I run with the Gerogia Bounty Runners. www.gbr4wd.com In the SE we are one of the most organized clubs. We take safety and prepardness very Serious. One of the things we require to be in every vehicle is a basic First aid kit. We require that a Snake bite kit and a insect sting stuff be added.
One thing I didn't see here is some sort of medical information sheet for the occupants of the vehicle. Our club requires a "Green Sheet" for every person in the vehicle. To be stored in the glovebox or center counsol. It had basic infromation such as Name, name of doctor, insurance information, contact information for anybody that would need to claim your carcuss. It also inculdes information to any know medical problems Like allergy to Bee stings, Medications, Diabetes. etc. This type of information is very important to know and if the person in trouble is unconcience. This stuff could mean life or death if the wrong medication is used or even if this person is having some sort of seizure due to a known condition, like Diabetic shock, we would be able to have a reason why. If the person has a known condition they are supose to put anything special they need in the medical kit on their vehicle so we know where to find it.
I ran the helmets idea past my club last time it was brought up by Lance. Some were receptive, some were not...I'm still the only one that has a helemet in my rig.
I have a first responders training. Basic deal but does include CPR and some good stuff on stabalizing a person till medical help can get on Scene. Good to have and had to use it when my 17month old daughter had a Seizure and quit breathing and tuned blue on us. That training kicked in out of nowhere and thankfully once I cleared her air way I had to go no further. SHe came back around and rushed her to the hospital. Very thankfull I had that training. I really think Parrents should look into getting this training. I got mine through work and a probram they have. They try to keep two employees in every store trained and in out big facilities they try to keep 2-4 people per floor trained.
My club also has a Big medical pack that makes it on the trail on all "CLUB" runs. It includes a splint kit, trama stuff. We even have a back board that rides in one of the trucks. We have several people in the club that work in the medical feild and have some formal medical training. Some of our club member ended up working a rescue at Tellico. The freaking FD and rescue personnel that respond to problems in the area are under trained. It's all Volenteer. The guy ran a ATV off trail one and went about 75ft down the side of a very steep hill. Stupid FD folks didn't even know how to use their repelling gear. One of our folks ended up helping them rig up. SAD! Anybody that frequents that area needs to be aware of this becsue some of the folks on the trail are better trained than the folks that are going to come and rescue you.
Our club is also working with GEMA (state Level of FEMA). We basicly have volenteered to help with any large emergency such as plane crashes and search and rescue. Winter weather emegency's was the biggest thing that they were interested in having us be part of the organization. They have offered to get out members into some basic emergency training including First responder/CPR stuff. They even invided us along for a mock Air plane crash. I unfortunatly cound not make that but the club members that did really got a lot out of it.
I have a FCC "REPAIR" license. I like the 2M stuff and I think I may look into this Further. While most of the places we frequent we can get Cell service on the higher elevations often it does require a hike or a drive. Tellico is a prime example. Everybody that Frequents that spot knows that you can get Cell serivce off the Cingular Net work in the Blaisville area. The only place is where trail 1 and upper two intersect., Part ot Trail 4. If your way back on trail 8 or 9 thats a good hour to get back out there if you cant relay on the CB to somebody already out that way and have them make the call. Nobody in my club has a Ham on their rigs. If I can pass that freaking repair test I should have no problem with the ham test. I need more antennas any way :)
While we are on antennas...My club limited the whip length. You get a long whip style antenna swing around somebody can get hurt big time! Maybe I'll try and locate I military Blazer antenna mount and antenna...My truck is already in Desert tan...Be a kewl addition I'll Just keep it tied down in the stowed possition unless I need it :D
Great post...keep it going!

Thanks, Mike, for sending us back to this. :D

Question about Ham - can it use the CalCord frequencies?

Paul

I have brought this back to the top due to the event that happened this last weekend

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=73315&referrerid=1535

Anyone feel free to contact me for any additional information


SAR_Sammy
Mike

Yes there are 2 helmets in my rig

Most HAM Type VHF gear can be modified for 2 meter "Out of Band" use, but they tend to get deaf and drop power the farther you get away from the HAM Band

Mike

these look like some decent kits, what do you guys think?

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/dept.asp?dept%5Fid=1606&category=Military+Surplus&dept%5Fname=Medical+%26+First+Aid+Gear&mscssid=1V450X13WU228MAQ8X48HJ6GHWGEF1C7

The freq range for a 2 meter ham radio is 144 to 148 Mhz.

CalCord Freq is 156.075.

Some some radios may be able to transmit that high. Mine won't. Its a 2 meter with extended freq features, but it doesn't extend it up that high.

anyway, don't they use calcord freq for life flight?

Originally posted by Dan-H


anyway, don't they use calcord freq for life flight?

Yes they do, and that's why I asked. It's very helpful to be able to guide a chopper in with verbal ques. Did it a lot this past winter.

Paul

This is an excellent post.

Thank you

You can pick up a fairly good kit at The Home Depot for $20. It is fairly well stocked. I have added several more itens to the kit to make it complete, thanks to having a sister in medicine. I can't stress enough the importance of having medical supplies onboard your vehicle.

My turn! First off, SAR Sammy, you rock.

I am an Environmental, Health & Safety Manager for an auto parts manufacturing facility (environmental engineer). Quite unfortunately, I have been forced to conduct fatal industrial accident investigations-no fun. I have also been the chair of the Local Emergency Planning Committee for one of the largest counties/cities in Indiana. I also have my ham license (Extra class, thank you very much).

One thing that has been missing from the discussion is the opportunity to take RESCUE classes. Your local fire departments can point you in the direction of your state's volunteer fire department training body. I have taken HAZWOPER, and rope rescue courses for next to nothing (the HAZWOPER class was free, two weeks worth, if you had the time). I can't tell you how many times I have needed the skills I learned in my rope rescue courses (I'm now up to about 75 hours of rope training). The University of Findlay in Ohio offers great courses for those in the area. Vehicle extrication classes are equally valuable for those of us in this sport.

When considering amateur radio for your rigs, don't forget the low bands. I often wheel in areas in Michigan where there is no cell coverage and no VHF repeater coverage and 40 or 80 meters works great in these situations-can go far enough to get out of where you are, but not to the next continent. In Marquette county, MI, until just recently, the only cell/paging coverage was for the state police!

First aid kits-nobody made mention of chemical cold packs! Carry a few and don't use them to cool the beer.

It is critical for us to know how to get folks out of crashed vehicles, to provide emergency stabilization and to be able to get victims to definitive medical care. Personally, in industrial situations, I am most concerned about getting the victim away from what caused the injury. I'll let the medical folks deal with the aftermath-at least the victim is alive!

Be safe!

Paul T. Schram CHMM
WD9HRP

Originally posted by PTSchram
at least the victim is alive!


Actually, victim's are dead. Patients are alive. :)

Agreed on rescue training. I've taken USAR, High Angle and Swift Water. Love that stuff.

Paul

I think I'm going to get some flares and smoke to keep in the rig
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/commerce/command/ExecMacro/west_advisor.d2w/show_advisor?fn=714.htm&store_num=8

Uh, please only use the flairs over a large body of water, wouldnt want to cause any forest fires...

Originally posted by kidwired
I think I'm going to get some flares and smoke to keep in the rig
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/commerce/command/ExecMacro/west_advisor.d2w/show_advisor?fn=714.htm&store_num=8

Originally posted by nasvik


Yes they do, and that's why I asked. It's very helpful to be able to guide a chopper in with verbal ques. Did it a lot this past winter.

Paul

Hey paul, any good recomendations for radios? I am a newbie at all this VHF/UHF Ham stuff. With what I had to deal with this past weekend, I really want to upgrade my communications and the ability to get a life flight in the backcountry would be a great thing. I want a strong mobile unit for the heep and and handheld that can use the heep's unit as a repeater.

SeanP

Victims are dead, patients are alive...

Victims don't become patients until they are in the presence of competent and definitive medical caregivers. As I am not a physician, but a first responder, to me, they are victims of an unfortuante situation. Once I get them to an EMT, doctor, or into an ambulance, I can relax and try to deal with what just happened!

The fatal accident investigation I had to conduct back in 1988 was a life-changing experience for me. I hope that none of us ever have to experience the feelings one will feel when they walk through a factory documenting where victims dropped their personal protective equipment as they tried to flee poisonous air contaminants. The psychological impact of rescues is something that is very rarely addressed and when it is, it is almost always after the fact, when it is of the least value. In the event the victim is a friend (happens often in the workplace), loved one, or even acquaintance, one's judgement can be blinded, leading us to do things we wouldn't otherwise.

A scary statistic is that in confined space fatalities, 60% of the victims are would-be rescuers. Certainly puts things into perspective, doesn't it.

The first thing I teach my students is "do not become an additional victim"! While I wish to save someone and feel a duty to do so due to my training, I also will not put myself into a dangerous situation to try to rescue someone else.

In safety,
Paul

Originally posted by SeanP


Hey paul, any good recomendations for radios?

Sorry - I used the FM radios they gave me on the mountain (ski patrol), and I don't really know anything about them. Thinking about it for the future though.

Paul

Originally posted by SMART ASS
Uh, please only use the flairs over a large body of water, wouldnt want to cause any forest fires...



DOH lol uh yeah....long day :D

Originally posted by SeanP


Hey paul, any good recomendations for radios? I am a newbie at all this VHF/UHF Ham stuff. With what I had to deal with this past weekend, I really want to upgrade my communications and the ability to get a life flight in the backcountry would be a great thing. I want a strong mobile unit for the heep and and handheld that can use the heep's unit as a repeater.

SeanP


Sean, if you want to use the vehicle radio as a "repeater" it will
have to be a "dual channel/dual band". That means the vehicle
radio has 2 seperate channels and also that one channel can be
set to the 2M band and the other channel can be set to the 70cM
band. The hand held has to have 70cM band transmit capability.
You transmit on the handheld on 70cM band and the vehicle radio
retransmits on 2M.

Vehicle radio example: http://www.yaesu.com/amateur/ft8900.html


Handheld radio example: http://www.yaesu.com/amateur/vx5r.html

************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** **************************************BTT for the new guys****************************************

More good reading about first aid kits

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=254271&highlight=Wilderness+911

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=155351&highlight=Wilderness+911

Be safe,
Dan*********************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ************************************************** ***************************

Yup well put man.....

I think that alot of people take for granted what we all do and how much danger there is. Not only in the wheeling but the things that surround us in the woods.

After wrecking a Heep on the Kaporowits plateau Utah many years ago, and walking for hours before we were luckily found by someone who took us to safety I can appreciate this advice.

The US is a BIG country, after being rescued we were driven 60 miles to safety.
In July in Utah that would have been an impossible walk for us.
Here in the UK that kind of wilderness doesn't exist, but now when we go out wheeling we're prepared.
It took an experience of nearly dying to ram those simple facts home to me.

Dave