What do you prefer for a trail rig with safety in mind? Lap, shoulder, full 5 point? I'm thinking lap's fine for a slow roll and 5 point would be dangerous in a multiple hard roll if the cage started to collapse. But in that same hard roll you'd be flopping everywhere with lap belts only, and probably much worse off. Not planning on doing any cage testing :skull: but, ...
Opinions?

I don't think the validity of 5 points can be argued. As for the cage collapsing on you ... a good cage shouldn't do that. And if a good cage does, I don't think even 5 points will save ya' ... let alone a single lap belt.

FYI: M&R brand pull up style 3" 5 pt. harnesses can be gotten for about $60/seat from a race shop here in WI. I'm sure race shops around the nation can get them as well. Our driver claims that they are just as nice as the Simpson belts. Actually he prefers them. He says the pull up tensioners are easier to "work" than the Simpsons ... probably just personal opinion though.

cm "good enough for 150 MPH ... good enough for 3 ... MPH" k

If your to the point that the cage is collapsing then lapbelt or 5 point harness isn't the problem its your vital organs jumping around in your ribcage and exploding that you have to worry about maybe you could bungy your intestines to your pelvic bone for an extra safety measure or use zipties. personally I like the mobility of a lapbelt to see more so I crash less. Basically if you roll that bad your tatered anyhow!:skull:

Originally posted by MOVEASIDE
If your to the point that the cage is collapsing then lapbelt or 5 point harness isn't the problem its your vital organs jumping around in your ribcage and exploding that you have to worry about maybe you could bungy your intestines to your pelvic bone for an extra safety measure or use zipties. personally I like the mobility of a lapbelt to see more so I crash less. Basically if you roll that bad your tatered anyhow!:skull:

uh, have you ever rolled before????? With the 5 point, when you roll you stay in place, therefore you dont get hurt, especially if you have a real nice cage. Think about it, it's the same principal of why we have shoulder belts on our vehicles....

I've only done a side over roll, and I can't remember if I was wearing my seat belt or not. If I was it was a shoulder belt in a YJ. Anyway, I ended up slamming my head against the rear view mirror, which gashed my head, and shattered the windshield. There's still even a chunk of skin in the rear view mirror (i took it out of the jeep and put it in the garage). I dont remember much, I just remember being on my side and looking at the oil shooting out of the jeep. My motor mounts broke which caused the motor to shift and the frame blew the oil filter. Then my buddies took me to the emergency room. Anyway, enough rambling.... moral of the story is: If I had had a 5 point, I would have been perfectly fine.

btw. I recommend a 5-Point. I dont think I need to explain why... like cmk said, you can get them for pretty cheap, the cheap ones are just a little more tricky to put together and get buckled up with.

I have 5 point Deist's in mine. As for the cheap belts all I know is you get what you pay for.
:cool:

We've got 4 point all the way around (The happy strap didn't seem necesary) I've only rolled it onto it's side, but the kids and I stayed put. If you've got kids, I'd recomend padding the rear fenderwells and cage tubes too.

Who has gone for a good tumble (not just a flop) with the stock lap and shoulder belt? I'm just wondering if they did much good.
For those of you with 5 point belts - do you find that it hampers your ability to move around and look at obstacles?
If I went with 5 point belts, where would I mount the shoulder belts on a stock YJ bar with an added front cage? To the bar above and behind my head?

Having rolled twice, once all the way over and the 2nd time twice over, I think I can tell you what worked for me.

At the time of both rolls, I had a passenger strapped into the stock shoulder belt. I was wearing a 3" Simpson lap belt. On both occasions, I rolled and stayed firmly planted in the seat and sustained zero injury. Both passengers had to be helped out of the stock shoulder belts, b/c they locked down so hard that they won't release.

In my opinion, a 3" racing style lapbelt is a must. They will open in a heartbeat if you need out and do a great job of holding you in. Wheelin' with the stock shoulder belt is dangerous. Staying planted in the seat is fine for the roll, but what happens when you can't get out? Being locked into the seat of a wrecked vehicle is not ideal....

I now have 3" lap belts for both seats, and will probably adding full harnesses for both.

Seth

Originally posted by withamc
For those of you with 5 point belts - do you find that it hampers your ability to move around and look at obstacles?
If I went with 5 point belts, where would I mount the shoulder belts on a stock YJ bar with an added front cage? To the bar above and behind my head?

The good part about a 5 pt setup is that you don't have to attach all 5 pts .. whether it's a latch type or camlock. They will function equally well as long as you at least "do up" the lap belt. The crotch belt and the shoulder straps are optional. I've watched guys tool around with just the lap belt on and when they know they're looking at "getting it," they'll do up all 5 pts in.

As for securing the shoulder straps, there is only one way to do it. You have to run a horizontal bar or mounts of some sort behind the seats, a couple inches below the level of the person's shoulders.

Find Simpson's website and order one of their free catalogs. In there is an excellent diagram showing exactly where your shoulder tie ins should be.

cmk

why don't you just use both?
a standard inertia reel 3 point harness for the street and a 4 or 5 point harness for the trail?

I'd say use the harness only, but have you ever tried to adjust dash knobs while wearing a harness?
"Just_gotta_STRETCH_one_more_inch.."

I run a 3-inch lap belt only. Never done an end-over-end or multiple rolls, but have laid the rig on both sides several times. The lap really keeps you cinched in, yet still gives you enough movement to lean out and look at obstacles.
Dion

my stock shoulder harness was rubbing my neck raw and did not keep me in drivers seat, my back hurt from having to keep myself in place. I got a 6 point but only use the lapbelt, it's nice and wide and it goes across my thighs not waste. it keeps me in the drivers seat and in control. I love it, I like to lean out and watch my front tire and this allows me to do it and be very comfortable and be very secure in the drivers seat.

I have simpson 5pts for both my seat and the passenger. If I'm just driving in town I use the lap belts but if I'm offroading then I'll strap on the shoulder belts too, unless its an easy climb, then I'll just use the lap belts.
Right now I only have the lap belt rigged and attached since we just got done mounting the new seats. I will be adding the rear bar to the cage for the shoulder straps soon and better mounts for the lap and crotch belts.
In my brothers jeep he has the stock belts and they suck, luckily neither of us has rolled YET...he will be getting a cage soon.

BTW: people with Simpson 5pts., how do you keep them tight? Mine seem to always loosen up after a while or after I take them off and put them back on. Do I need to run the strap through the latch differently then the factory did?
Thx

Joseph A.

Originally posted by IndianaBlake


uh, have you ever rolled before????? With the 5 point, when you roll you stay in place, therefore you dont get hurt, especially if you have a real nice cage. Think about it, it's the same principal of why we have shoulder belts on our vehicles....

I've only done a side over roll, and I can't remember if I was wearing my seat belt or not. If I was it was a shoulder belt in a YJ. Anyway, I ended up slamming my head against the rear view mirror, which gashed my head, and shattered the windshield. There's still even a chunk of skin in the rear view mirror (i took it out of the jeep and put it in the garage). I dont remember much, I just remember being on my side and looking at the oil shooting out of the jeep. My motor mounts broke which caused the motor to shift and the frame blew the oil filter. Then my buddies took me to the emergency room. Anyway, enough rambling.... moral of the story is: If I had had a 5 point, I would have been perfectly fine.

btw. I recommend a 5-Point. I dont think I need to explain why... like cmk said, you can get them for pretty cheap, the cheap ones are just a little more tricky to put together and get buckled up with. Good point man I was just messing with you anyhow I actually want one but I'm trying to devise one for my kid's carseat first he got a blackeye last time we went out