I made it out Saturday for a test run… I apologize for the poser shots here, I was out on my own so I had to restrain myself to just easy stuff. :)

Impressions, the flex is good. Not as much as I had before, but very well balanced. The coil over springs do not compress as much as the 5". The higher stress of the smaller dia force them to make the windings closer together and therefore more per inch. I can compress a 14" spring about 7" before it coil binds. So, I defiantly lost some up travel. However, one advantage to that is I don't stuff the tire as far into the fender wells. As it sets now, with little or no trimming I have room for 35's…… Hummmm….

Stability is great, MUCH better than before! But the thing I love the best is the way the front climbs. I can push a front tire up against a undercut wall 3' tall, then CRAWL the tire up the wall. I can even stop the tire halfway up, hold it there then continue on up. Then, the best part, as it crowns over the top, it just rolls over slow and easy. :) No load and spring, pop, or jump like the leaf springs did.

Anyway here's a few poser shots….
http://www.extreme4wheelin.com/images/post/fcoils_12.jpg

The rear stretch…
http://www.extreme4wheelin.com/images/post/fcoils_13.jpg

One of the key advantages of the coils, they flex even when the truck is climbing and much of the weight is transferred to the back…. I can get near full compression, even when the truck is at a 45 degree angle…
http://www.extreme4wheelin.com/images/post/fcoils_11.jpg

Really, there's not much I can say, other than what took me so long :rolleyes:. I had some street instability when turning to the right. I discovered I had a dead shock on front. Once that was fixed, the onroad handling is better than it has ever been (better than many stock SUV's), and with very little body roll. The ride is just hard to explain. It's soo smooth! Russ was out latter in the day. He watched me climb a series of ledges, and his only comment was that the truck worked so EASY….

A little finish up work (need bumpstops up front) and I'll be ready for Zookimelt. :)

Man, that looks awesome. I'm glad to see it all working out. I will be ordering my coil suspension this week. I can't wait!!!! Keep it on all fours!

:usa: :beret:

A little finish up work (need bumpstops up front) and I'll be ready for Zookimelt. :) [/B][/QUOTE]

Looks good, 2wks see ya there :D

sweet............ and that last poser shot looks cool......... just the way its sitting in the water, mint........:D :D :D

Did ya get a chance to try anything off-camber to see how it behaves???

Lookin´ good!!!:D

:beer: :beer:

Originally posted by billj
Did ya get a chance to try anything off-camber to see how it behaves???

I did quite a bit of that. That was one of the major concerns, so I put a lot of thought in this. The key thing is keep the coil spacing as wide as possible. You don't get as much flex (since the spring has to move more), but it did a GREAT job of providing stability. My front coils are 3-1/2" outside of the frame rails. I moved the rear axle back and put in the 2-1/2" springs. I mounted them on the 5" plates, offset as far out as I could (moved them about 1-1/2" out). It does not look as clean, but gets the rear a little more stability (along with a stiffer spring rate). The 150lb/in I was using was good when the truck was empty. But, you put in the normal trail supplies, tool box, spares, cooler, and the rear was too loaded. The 175lb/in feels much better. I ended up with 200 lb/in up front, and that works great.

Russ is not a believer in much flex, so we played a game of follow the leader with his buggy. I trekked along behind him on all off camber stuff he could find. The truck felt great. I ran one of the trails in the woods that has a good off camber section. Normally the high side front would be dancing from top rock to rock. This time every tire stayed planted. I wish I would have had this in Moab…. :)

Any pics of this off-camber stuff??

:beer: :beer:

Originally posted by billj
Any pics of this off-camber stuff??

I was going to do that, but frankly it's a little unnerving climbing out of the truck when you have it right on the limits. :) When I climbed out to take the pic of the RF in the hole, the left rear came up another 6". :D

Also, it's real difficult to get a picture to show angles well. I didn't think the pics would come out w/out a cheat, and that would look misleading.

I don't know of any way to measure that, it's just a seat-of-the-pants kinda thing...

Is that a coil kit or home-built? Looks pretty sweet. If its home built, what are the springs from? how did you determine the spring rate? Nice rig.:beer:

looking sweet!!!!:cool:

Originally posted by muleskinner222
Is that a coil kit or home-built? Looks pretty sweet. If its home built, what are the springs from? how did you determine the spring rate? Nice rig.:beer:

Thanks,
It's a 'home built' suspension. Look back over the other 'Front Coils' posts I did. Those posts should answer all your questions... :) I've even posted CAD drawings....

Looks really good. How much does that thing weigh? It looks like with all of the extra body armor (there's quite a bit of it) I would guess +/- 3,000 pounds.

That's the weight I'm shooting for when I go full-on tube (one of those 'on the horizon' style projects) with a 4-seater cage in my Toy...

I want to go with a radius arm style setup F&R for greater-than-90 approach angles, too. You have the weight I want to end up at, and the suspension style I want to use... so lets just say I'm paying close attention. ;)

How much do the springs off of a coilover (that is what you used, right?) cost per set? Was that a cheaper way to go than non-coilover stlye springs - or was that choice dictated by the amount of space you had available to fit the spring into?

I really like that suspension, and except for the fact that I want to go with radius-arm in the back (along with a 105" wheelbase and 38s) your rig is set up the way I want mine to be some day.

Originally posted by Dr. Evil
Looks really good. How much does that thing weigh? It looks like with all of the extra body armor (there's quite a bit of it) I would guess +/- 3,000 pounds.

How much do the springs off of a coilover (that is what you used, right?) cost per set? Was that a cheaper way to go than non-coilover stlye springs - or was that choice dictated by the amount of space you had available to fit the spring into?

The last time I weighed it (when I did the D44's and 33's, w/ exo) I was just under 3K. I'm probably just a bit over that now.

The coil-over springs were dictated by size restriction. The 5" stock car springs I had in the back are actually better (will compress more, and a little cheaper). I wheeled my rear 5" coils for almost a year, HARD. When I pulled them off last week they measured w/in 1/4" of their origional free length! Thats why I preach the race car springs. Junk yard springs will never be that consistant or tuneable!

One observation I have made with the wristed / radius-arm system is the torque effect. On the front, when I hit my brakes hard I get a lifting on the passenger side (the arm side). This is part of the geometry of the system. I can't say there is a problem with it on the front, but on the rear it may not be as good. When you accelerate, the back of the truck will lift (aka anti-squat). This is the same effect you see with traction bars. The amount of lift is a function of the length of the arm (same as t-bars). It may or may not be a problem, that's up to you. However, with a ballenced 3 or 4 link you can eliminate any lift or sink under torque. That's what I have. I like that because it helps to prevent wheel bounce. If the torque lifts the truck, then when traction is lost momentarly the truck sinks. Then when it comes back, it lifts again..... That is the source of most uncontrollable tire hop!

A three link is rather simple to do on the rear (no diff or steering components to clear). It also eliminates the need for a panhard bar. JMO... :)

Makes sense. I had planned on making one of the front arms so that I could pin it down and not have any wristed arms for the trail around here - where you need the rig stable but don't need a whole lot of flex for steep hillclimbs under throttle. The axle-is-now-a-humongous-swaybar effects would help on the sidehills, too.

A three link is rather simple to do on the rear (no diff or steering components to clear). It also eliminates the need for a panhard bar. JMO...
You mean with the upper link triangulated? Or maybe I'll just go with the tried-and-true and do a triangulated four link. :emb:

Still a long way off (years) so I have time to change my mind several dozen times. :D

Originally posted by Dr. Evil
You mean with the upper link triangulated? Or maybe I'll just go with the tried-and-true and do a triangulated four link. :emb:


A three link being the upper triangulated link as one piece, with a single joint on one end and dual joints on the other. Triangulated 4 link being two triangulated arms with independent mounting points for both ends and two seperate parallel links. The fun part being, the triangle can be on top, bottom, or pointing forward or backwards... :) Mine is on top, with the triangle pointing forwards. I got the idea from a visit to Avalanche Eng's shop. Decided it would fit the back of my Sami nicely...

I'm sure you will change your mind many times as you see other's ideas and impressions.

My $.02 hint for the day is - Don't use hiem joints for all mounting points of a 4 link. Put a bushing somewhere that can absorb shock loads. Constant thumps and clanks get real annoying.. ;)

The fun part about the 4wd trucks is that every one's application is different! Everyone goes in different dirrections and with different goals.

Originally posted by Dr. Evil
Makes sense. I had planned on making one of the front arms so that I could pin it down and not have any wristed arms for the trail around here - where you need the rig stable but don't need a whole lot of flex for steep hillclimbs under throttle. The axle-is-now-a-humongous-swaybar effects would help on the sidehills, too.

[


That´s exactly what I did. I made the two front radius arms identical, except that where I´ve a bolted connection on one side, on the other I´ve a a removable pin. Same for the radius arms in the back...

Works rather well, but the pins are a real PITA to install, so I´ve just end up leaving them out . I am planning to do some "scientific" comparison testing to really evaluate the differences between running pinned or non-pinned...

:beer: :beer:

BillJ... have you found something (bigass rock?) to flex it on, and tired pinned and non-pinned? Just wondering exactly how much it limits flex.

Scott Ellinger (Scott@Rockstomper) is running this setup in front. He really likes it, and it obviously flexes....

Originally posted by Dr. Evil
BillJ... have you found something (bigass rock?) to flex it on, and tired pinned and non-pinned? Just wondering exactly how much it limits flex.

Scott Ellinger (Scott@Rockstomper) is running this setup in front. He really likes it, and it obviously flexes....

I´ll be doing this very soon. This weekend prolly won´t work out, as I have to rebuild my alternator and do other general electrical maintenance, which I hate.... Fawking mud...:p

But when I do test this,I´ll let ya´ll know!!

:beer: :beer:

Morning update, I made a run by the scales this weekend.

2/3 tank gas, driver included (160 lbs), no spare (-85 lbs).

Front - 1780 lbs (53.6%)
Rear - 1540 lbs (46.4%)
Total - 3320 lbs