Ok here's the deal. I'm planning on modifiying my square-bore IH 345 intake to resemble the intake-side-pattern of my carb adapter for my QJ. That pattern is an OPEN square bore, and is a little larger than the IH intake pattern in quite a few spots.

I have the Die Grinder, the carbide bit, and a plan.

Here's the plan:


Unbolt the carb :rolleyes:

Remove the intake.

Leave adapter on (for now).

Outline the adapter pattern.

Unbolt the adapter.

Start grinding wildly till I get to the inside edge of the outlined pattern, then slowly angle the pattern out towards the top (in towards the bottom) as much as I can, to achieve the plenuim, until I get to the outside edge of the outlined pattern.

Anyone see any problems with this plan?? Anyone done this. I've thought about it quite a bit, and can't "see" any drawbacks (except the price I paid for the carbide cutter)

Originally posted by Cliffhanger
Ok here's the deal. I'm planning on modifiying my square-bore IH 345 intake to resemble the intake-side-pattern of my carb adapter for my QJ.
Anyone see any problems with this plan??

So you're trying to "port" a square-bore intake to more readily accept your spread-bore QJ?

How about trading me a spread-bore intake for your square-bore.. wouldn't that be easier? :D

Already tried that with Old Scout, so thanks but I'm not that patient anymore.

The pattern I'm trying to match is not Spread bore it's a larger, open, square-bore pattern.

Originally posted by Cliffhanger
Already tried that with Old Scout, so thanks but I'm not that patient anymore.

The pattern I'm trying to match is not Spread bore it's a larger, open, square-bore pattern.

Does that mean we'll stop seeing, "Old Scout, check your PMs!!" messages now?

What's the big rush?

Your local boneyard probably has a bunch of spread-bore intakes, or you could pick one up from me at RMIHR..

Ever think the QJet is a bit of a big carb for a stock 345?

I can only think of a few guys opening up their square-bore intakes for bigger-bore Holleys in competition..

Heck, some might argue the reduced intake hole sizes might increase fuel atomization..

Originally posted by tsm1mt


Does that mean we'll stop seeing, "Old Scout, check your PMs!!" messages now?

What's the big rush?

Ever think the QJet is a bit of a big carb for a stock 345?

Heck, some might argue the reduced intake hole sizes might increase fuel atomization..


Yes, there will be no more "Old scout Check your PM's" threads, not regarding the same subject anywho.

The big rush: My wife sent out resume's to WA and OR, she's recieved 6 call backs that all sound VERY GOOD, so we "COULD" be moving anyday, and I can't rely on my scout yet, AND I need to be able to rely on it.

This QJ is off of a van w/a 305, so I think it "SHOULD' be fine. Plus if it was too bit, I don't think it would effect ONLY starting. THe thing runs GREAT, *IF* I can get it started.

My theory is this: I'm getting a lot of gas turbulance which is PREVENTING good atomization at low CFM's, but *IF* I do get it running it runs good, due to the higher volume of airflow.

I'll find out soon enough.

Originally posted by Cliffhanger


My theory is this: I'm getting a lot of gas turbulance which is PREVENTING good atomization at low CFM's, but *IF* I do get it running it runs good, due to the higher volume of airflow.

I'll find out soon enough.

So, you think the "bore step" is why it won't start? :confused:

Will it start if you pour a little gas down the throat of the carb and crank it? That'll get you some poor fuel atomization..

I'd look more at a shot "acc pump" type feature, and/or poorly performing choke before I blamed the intake.

My 2bbl Holley starts every time - even with a 2" open carb spacer.
Also had a 2bbl Holley mounted on a 2-4 adapter on a square-bore intake.. definitely NOT centering the 2bbl carb over the intake holes.. it, too, started fine every time.

I'm not saying port-matching the carb and intake together isn't a bad idea, all in all, just thinking it's a lot of work - especially since you're not planning to keep the 345 anyhow.. the stock intake will work better unmolested for the next owner.

:confused:

I missed the hard starting thread, but have you checked out your ignition thoroughly? When I had hard starting problems with my 304 it was because the coil was cracked, and the points were bad. :D

The difference between the adapters ports and the intakes ports wont cause it to not start cliffy. My guess on your starting issue is you've got an ignition issue.

Well where the hell were you guys a few months ago???

The only thing I haven't replaced is the points, Maybe I should return the Die Grinder bit and get some new points??

This is what I don't understand, why it runs so good *when I can get it going* but it's so damn hard to start. How is this the fault of the points??

I have a new cap, rotor, coil, plugs, and new wires (waiting to go in) Holy shit, maybe my battery just needs replaced. MAYBE my battery is no good and when I DO get it going it's running mostly off the alt. IS THIS A POSSIBILITY??

I don't even know anymore........................................... ...............:(

Maybe I should spend this weekend working on the ignition, not the suspension and steering. That shit won't do me any good anyway, if I can drive it down the street:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Cliffhanger

My theory is this: I'm getting a lot of gas turbulance which is PREVENTING good atomization at low CFM's, but *IF* I do get it running it runs good, due to the higher volume of airflow.

I'll find out soon enough.

I came up with this theory after I noticed that everytime I've had trouble starting this thing, I've seen fuel puddled at the bottom of the intake. Made sense at the time?:confused:

Check the voltage at the coil. Do you have a resistor? Is the coil getting full 12V while cranking? Does it crank and crank and crank, and then fire when you let off the key?

Do you even have points or is it one of the other POS ignition systems? I'd go for a points distributor w/ a pertronix in it. I have that in my '69 1000D w/ the 304 and it fires up as soon as you touch the key.

Have you checked the timing? Try turning the distributor a little each way while cranking to see if it fires?

Originally posted by tsm1mt

Will it start if you pour a little gas down the throat of the carb and crank it? That'll get you some poor fuel atomization..

I'd look more at a shot "acc pump" type feature, and/or poorly performing choke before I blamed the intake.

My 2bbl Holley starts every time - even with a 2" open carb spacer.
Also had a 2bbl Holley mounted on a 2-4 adapter on a square-bore intake.. definitely NOT centering the 2bbl carb over the intake holes.. it, too, started fine every time.

I'm not saying port-matching the carb and intake together isn't a bad idea, all in all, just thinking it's a lot of work - especially since you're not planning to keep the 345 anyhow.. the stock intake will work better unmolested for the next owner.

:confused:

Actually NO, if I pour gas down the carb it WON'T start, if I use starting fluid it will TRY REALLY HARD to start.

I just rebuilt this carb, so I'm confident that it's NOT the ACC PUMP, especially since I can see the gas pumping GREAT!

Good info about your set-up though, thanks, that's a relief:beer:

Cliffy, it takes more energy to start that it does to keep it running. I'd bet your points are either worn or your ballast resistor (if you have one) is shot. you need a full 12v at start and only about 7 to 8 when its running

Originally posted by Ben W
Check the voltage at the coil. Do you have a resistor? Is the coil getting full 12V while cranking? Does it crank and crank and crank, and then fire when you let off the key?

Do you even have points or is it one of the other POS ignition systems? I'd go for a points distributor w/ a pertronix in it. I have that in my '69 1000D w/ the 304 and it fires up as soon as you touch the key.

Have you checked the timing? Try turning the distributor a little each way while cranking to see if it fires?

It has tried firing when I'd let off the key after cranking and cranking. what does this indicate?

I don't have the infamous "GOLD BOX" so I'm assuming that I have points (Thanks to tsm1mt)

I have also played with the timing (the one time I got it to fire 6 time consecutively) and believe I currently have it setup for the "quickest starts"

Although I'm NOT SURE if the coil getting a full 12v WHILE CRANKING since I've been doing this all by myself, and my arms aren't that long


ANYTHING ELSE GUYS....I APPRECIATE THE HELP SO FAR

How about trading me a spread-bore intake for your square-bore.. wouldn't that be easier?

You got an extra spreadbore?

Squarebores are a dime a dozen around here while spreadbores are rarer than hens teeth.

I have a squarebore and have been looking for a spreadbore for over a year. The last fifteen or so I found in junkyards are all square. A young feller in Kansas says hes gonna send me a spreadbore when he gets around to it. Been sayin' that for six months. Got a guy in Idaho wants my squarebore.

Wanna trade? All's it'll cost is shipping and I'll pay that for both of 'em.

BTW, even big Q-jets ain't too big for a stock 345 'cause of the way they are made. Unlike a Holley, they won't dump more gas in than is needed. Pre smog ('66-'72 or so) Chevys from 327 thru 454 used 850 cfms.

Originally posted by Cliffhanger


It has tried firing when I'd let off the key after cranking and cranking. what does this indicate?



This indicates your ignition wiring is F'dUP.

No goldbox, and it's NOT a 78 or newer, right, so no Prestolite..

Sure sounding like you have points.

And here's why.

As Ben alluded to - when you're cranking, you need a full 12V to the coil, b/c the battery is drawn down by the starter, resulting in a weaker spark.

Normally with points you run through a ballast and about 9V while running.

But to start, it has a special bypass to get a full 12V to the coil/points.

You're trying to start, and getting VERY weak spark, so it won't start.. but when you release the starter, it wants to fire because *now* it's getting 9V (no starter drain).. but then it stops spinning before it'll catch.

Anyhow..

Step 1 - make sure this is the problem.

Get a piece of wire and two alligator clips.

Clip to battery + and to Coil +. There, full 12V bypass.

Crank starter, giggle like a schoolgirl when it fires up on the first try.

Remove bypass wire, repeat.. bet it doesn't work.

Great, now the permanent fix.

Two solutions.

1) Pertronix in the disty, and keep or remove the ballast resistor / resistance wire - the Pertronix doesn't care.

2) Get in where the starter solenoid is. There are THREE terminals on it.

Big fatty for the battery cable.

Top little terminal is the "start" wire (energize this, starter goes whirrrrr)

BOTTOM terminal - ONLY used for Points ignition.

This should have a wire attached that then runs straight to the coil + side.

This is the 12V "only when starting" bypass wire.

If you're lacking this wire (or it's broken, shorted, whatever) add it.

A variation on this that's easier - go buy a Ford solenoid. Mount to firewall. Buy a "side post" battery cable while you're at the store.

Hook the "battery" side of the side-post battery cable to the big fat terminal on the starter solenoid, and use one of the "acc hookup" wires (attached to the battery cable) to the top (S) terminal on the starter solenoid.

Run the "lug" end of the battery cable to one side of the Ford solenoid on the firewall. Run old battery cable to the other side.

Move old "S" wire off the starter solenoid to "S" of the Ford solenoid.

Now add your ignition (coil) wire from the I terminal of the Ford solenoid.

Makes R&Ring the starter much easier when/if you have to, and avoids any hot-start problems you'd have in the future.

Clear as mud?

When I re-wired my racer I had a points disty for a while, and it was REALLY hard to start without the bypass wire hooked up to the starter solenoid.. took a minute of cranking before it had a hot enough spark to fire.

Now I run the Pertronix, Ford solenoid, NAPA lifetime starter, and of course a LOT more motor.. after a few rrrrr-rrr-whump---rrr--rrr-whump cycles it'll come to life every time.

Originally posted by scoutver5.7


You got an extra spreadbore?

Squarebores are a dime a dozen around here while spreadbores are rarer than hens teeth.

Wanna trade? All's it'll cost is shipping and I'll pay that for both of 'em.

I have a spreadbore sitting on my 'stand under the IC392 for my Travelette.

Haven't decided for sure just what carb to run on the "towing 392" yet.

I have a Edelbrock Q-Jet I bought used.. but know NOTHING about 'em.

I had been leaning towards just buying a 1406 square-bore and using a square intake and calling it good. Relatively cheap ($180), well known, works-out-of-the-box (no f-ing with it).. good rep.

Tempting.

I need to do some consulting with some more experienced friends before I decide just which route to take on the carb/intake.. I should have a good idea by the end of July (lots of benchracing at RMIHR and NWBRU..) which route I want to take.

Unless you're going to be at RMIHR.. in which case, I'll bring the intake along. :)

Unless you're going to be at RMIHR.. in which case, I'll bring the intake along.

Not this year. Scout ain't anywhere near ready. I am going to Colorado this fall, but I'll be chasing elk around with a bow.:D

Originally posted by tsm1mt


This indicates your ignition wiring is F'dUP.

No goldbox, and it's NOT a 78 or newer, right, so no Prestolite..



Actually it IS a 1978!!! :eek: Now I'm screwed huh??? I think it's the holly dist. and there is a ballast resistor near the coil. It's the little round black thingy with one wire in and one wire out right.

So do I still need to follow your steps above, or is it different since mine is a 78?????????????????????????????:confused:

Oh, how can I tell if it's presotlite? If this helps, my chevy dist cap looks the same (as far as the tips) AND it's a CLIP-ON!!

Hope this helps.

Originally posted by Cliffhanger


Actually it IS a 1978!!! :eek: Now I'm screwed huh??? I think it's the holly dist. and there is a ballast resistor near the coil. It's the little round black thingy with one wire in and one wire out right.

So do I still need to follow your steps above, or is it different since mine is a 78?????????????????????????????:confused:

Could be a Presolite, all-inside electronic.

Easiest method - pull the disty cap, remove the rotor, remove the dust cover.. see points? Yes? Points disty. No? Prestolite.

Or you could just go ahead and try the hot-wire trick and see if it works. It's an easy test.

I *think* sometime in '78 is when they dumped the GoldBox for the Prestolite..

They do make a Pertronix for the Prestolite distributor, too..

Damn I shoulda read this before I went to Autozone and ordered my points (Just thought I'd replace while I was in that area)

Anyway, I printed off your *INSTRUCTIONS* for future reference (IE: future as in this sat.)

THANKS EVERYONE FOR THE INFO, IT'S BEEN REALLY HELPFUL!!!!!

Originally posted by Cliffhanger
Damn I shoulda read this before I went to Autozone and ordered my points (Just thought I'd replace while I was in that area)

Anyway, I printed off your *INSTRUCTIONS* for future reference (IE: future as in this sat.)

THANKS EVERYONE FOR THE INFO, IT'S BEEN REALLY HELPFUL!!!!!

Points?? :barf: Pertronix!! :D Never touch the darn thing again.. :P

POINTS= 11.77 + tax :D

Pertronixs=$75.?? + tax :eek:

Don't get me wrong, I want the set-up but it's not in the "LET'S JUST GET IT RUNNING GOOD" budget. But as soon as that's over, Then I'll be running the caddy engine...HEI BABY (finally back to what I know.)

Originally posted by Cliffhanger
POINTS= 11.77 + tax :D

Pertronixs=$75.?? + tax :eek:

Don't get me wrong, I want the set-up but it's not in the "LET'S JUST GET IT RUNNING GOOD" budget. But as soon as that's over, Then I'll be running the caddy engine...HEI BABY (finally back to what I know.)

My Travelette is running points right now - they were in it when I bought it, and they work.

However.. there's a brand new Pertronix in my toolbox waiting a spare 1/2 hour to install.

I guess my point was, why spend $11.77 on points that you probably don't need.. especially if you're a) swapping out for the Caddy soon, or b) planning on a Pertronix any how.

$11.77 * 7 points swaps = Pertronix. And think of the time you save by not dealing with the points, no wandering timing.. no water problems..

Set n' forget.

I like that. :D

yep, one of the first mods to my 225 was puttin in an HEI. Points work, but man I hate em. I use my distributor wrenches for bleeding brakes now and barely remember dealing with points ;)

Cliffy -

Get yourself a remote starter switch so you can crank the engine while troubleshooting stuff under the hood. (Make sure the tranny is in Park when using it :D )

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=35448

Tom pretty much covered everything I was going to suggest. First thing I would try is a jumper wire from the pos. battery terminal to the + terminal on the coil, and see if it starts.