Hey, got a question... not that I'm gonna hold anybody to their answers here, but just lookin' for an idea of demand.

http://www.rockstomper.com/images/products/wheels/beadlock01.jpg

We just got these in for 15" steel wheels; they're 1/4", 32-bolt, and not too awfully expensive. They're also set up so that you can weld 'em on to existing wheels without machining the wheel at all, if you want about a 2" wider (all outside) wheel--I made a set of 15x10's into 15x12's that way, really cheap-n-easy. Much cheaper than a set of custom 15x12 beadlock wheels, anyway, 'specially since I already had 15x10's and wanted to put 44's on 'em.

Now the magic number... the 15's are $75 a lock as a you-weld-it kit. The same thing, for a 16 or a 16.5, would be about the same, but just for giggles, since it's a little more material, let's guesstimate it at $80 apiece, for the same thing, to fit a 16 or 16.5 wheel.

And the magic question... I can't get these made in batches less than ten wheels' worth. Is it worth getting a batch made up of rings to fit 16's or 16.5's?

are you saying that you can get some 16.5 inch beadlocks?
just want to make sure i'm not mistaken, as i have heard it was not posssible
what gives?

Originally posted by fcfred:
<STRONG>are you saying that you can get some 16.5 inch beadlocks?
just want to make sure i'm not mistaken, as i have heard it was not posssible
what gives?</STRONG>

Get, yes. It's an in-house design, and the 15's that we've already got, are pretty content.

It is possible to get 16.5's made; we have these contract-built by a CNC plasma shop nearby. So we can get just about anything, but they don't even want to deal with quantities that take up less than a full sheet of steel. I don't have any idea on how expensive 16.5 wheels are; so far, we're doing beadlocks only, and can get wheels if you want wheels outright with locks already on, or we can supply beadlock "kits" to DIY.

The "impossible 16.5" may be the inner bead (it's not possible to use a bolt-style *inner* beadlock on anything with wheel-mounted brakes, typically) so this doesn't do anything about the inner bead. Just the outer.

Have you considered a counterbore for the bolt heads so they are more flush rather than sticking out?

According to his page here: http://www.rockstomper.com , they're available with button-head or countersunk-head bolts for an additional cost.

<STRONG>"32 bolt for excellent durability--standard is hex head bolts; we can supply button head bolts for $10 extra per beadlock, or flush head (countersunk!) bolts for an extra $20 per lock." </STRONG>

Originally posted by fcfred:
<STRONG>are you saying that you can get some 16.5 inch beadlocks?
just want to make sure i'm not mistaken, as i have heard it was not posssible
what gives?</STRONG>

Fred have you been asleep? BIGFECK (http://www.pirate4x4.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=014310) announced a couple weeks ago that he is selling 16.5 beadlocks (http://www.pirate4x4.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=014310)

Trailready (http://www.trailready.com/bead_lock_wheels.htm) has also had 16.5 beadlocks (http://www.trailready.com/bead_lock_wheels.htm) for quite awhile. Both of them are much more expensive than what Scott is talking about though.

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: BenW ]

So those useless 16.5x9.75 wheels just became 16.5x11.75?? Sweet. Kinda makes me wish I'd bought those 6 38.5x16x16.5 Swampers for $400. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Just a heads up. 16.5" wheels don't have a inner safety bead. If you weld bead locks onto your wheels make sure and weld in a safety bead to the inner bead before you air them down.
OK on another subject, how do I get a set? <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Scoutaholic:
<STRONG>Just a heads up. 16.5" wheels don't have a inner safety bead. If you weld bead locks onto your wheels make sure and weld in a safety bead to the inner bead before you air them down.</STRONG>

This is correct, and what I was attempting to clarify for Fred with my earlier reply. I guess I wasn't clear though. Anyway, yes, there's no safety inner bead on 16.5's; Bigfeck's beadlock wheel design, solves that by adding a safety bead. Ours does not; especially so when the beadlock rings are sold primarily as a DIY kit (how I'd personally prefer to sell 'em) where you weld 'em to your wheels, and we never even see (or sell) wheels at all, just beadlocks.

<STRONG>OK on another subject, how do I get a set? <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

We don't have 16.5 beadlocks yet... I'll get 'em quoted at the plasma place tomorrow, and see what it'll take to make it happen. Sounds like there's enough interest to be worthwhile.

And yes, ColdNorthJonny, you can make 16.5x9.75's into 16.5x11.75's, or close to it. Since normal wheels are measured outer bead seat area to outer seat area, and beadlocks have a non-fixed outer seat area, seating the tire on the inner surface of the bead instead, there's some variance in final wheel width, depending on how thick the bead is. The wheels (this may sound really silly, but it's true) end up "wider" with Swampers, than with, say, General Grabbers, because the Swamper bead is thicker, so the inner surface seats, but the outer surface dictates how wide the wheel is.

BenW, full beadlock wheels are more expensive because they give you a wheel as well; these are *just* beadlocks. If we install 'em onto wheels we provide, it ends up being around $125-140ish a wheel, depending on the cost of the wheels. Basically, we're not a wheel shop, so we'd rather not sell 'em that way--we can't get deals on wheels, so we can't make much on 'em either. Not and get 'em out at a fair price, anyway. But if you can't (or would rather not) weld... we will.

This setup also allows a few other options; since you can use narrow wheels and make wide ones out of 'em, you can buy $25/each 15x8's (well, so far, anyway) and make roughly 15x10's out of 'em... or use 15x10's and get 15x12's. Saves a bunch-o-cash on wheels, since there's no need to start with a really wide wheel. If you want to keep the same width wheels you've got, we can machine 'em down to put the bead seat back where it belongs, but that's not what we normally do--it's a lot of work, isn't any stronger, and by the time you get all that done, it's a cost wash on just buying new (narrower) steel wheels.

how much for a set of 5 rims with beadlocks already on em? 15x8

oh yeah and i know im a newbie, so here i'll <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"> myself!

thanks

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: the kid in the hall ]

I am interested in 16.5" beadlocks... A firm price would be nice too Scott <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

i see alot of people asking about 16.5 beadlocks. a inexpensive diy kit would be cool

This could be the best thing since sliced bread. You can sign me up for a set of 16.5's. <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0">

[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: SMP K5 ]

Are you going to write-up some instructions for welding them on?? What all is involved??

Originally posted by SMP K5:
<STRONG>This could be the best thing since sliced bread. You can sign me up for a set of 16.5's. <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0"> </STRONG>

OK, guys... just got off the phone with the plasma house... price is the *same* for 16's or 16.5's, as it is for 15's. There's enough dead space between the 15's when they're laid out on a sheet of steel, that I have enough room to "biggen" them by an inch and change, and not affect the cost. So, consider this a firm price: $75 per lock kit, as a you-weld-it setup. That's inner-n-outer rings, plus the hardware to assemble it all. You'd need four (or five, if you prefer to lock your spare) of those to do a whole vehicle, and you'd need to supply wheels, welder, and a fair bit of patience (it takes about a half hour to just tighten all those frickin' bolts! <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0"> ) but we can do 'em for that. $85/kit gets you button head bolts:
http://www.rockstomper.com/images/products/wheels/beadlock09.jpg
and $95/kit gets you countersunk flat heads (sorry, no pic online right now).
And we can have 'em shipping by mid-next-week.

Scott - I have an endless supply of the button head bolts and washers - would there possibly be a price break on just supplying the rings?

If not, I understand, but that is a lot of bolts to have to package with eash set <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Convertiyota:
<STRONG>Are you going to write-up some instructions for welding them on?? What all is involved??</STRONG>

Hmm... I suppose I oughta...

1. Take off the tire. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">
2. Clean the outer lip of the wheel--dirt, rust, paint, anything that's on there, that'll contaminate a weld. If that lip isn't straight, you're gonna have a tough time putting locks on--if it's bad enough to where the lock doesn't sit cleanly on it, scrap the wheel--they're not that expensive.
3. Center up the lock on the wheel lip--they're the same OD, so you can do this by finger-feel, it's really easy.
4. Tack the ring onto the wheel. I use a star pattern, one side, opposite side, then just like tightening wheel bolts, put a tack in every 3-4 inches.
5. Weld all the way around, make sure you get a good hole-less weld. MIG (or TIG) preferred--much easier to do cleanly.
6. Let it cool, and put the tire back on.

Now, with this formula, you've just widened your wheels by about 2"--if that's a good thing, you're set. If that's not a good thing, then it's more like:
1. Get wheels that are 2" narrower than what you actually want, but have the right backspacing.
And the rest of the steps are the same.

Or... if you don't want to do any of that... you'll need to cut your wheels. PITA enough to where I personally think, just get new ones, they're not that expensive.

As for a set of five 15x8's with locks on 'em and all... it'd depend on the wheel price--if the wheels are really expensive, the lock setups will be too. If you supply the wheels, we'll put the locks on the outside of 'em for $100 apiece, parts-n-labor; if we supply the wheels, the wheel price would be added onto that. If we have to cut the wheels to do the locks (we can do it, but don't like to) it'd be $125 per, plus wheels.

Originally posted by DRM:
<STRONG>Scott - I have an endless supply of the button head bolts and washers - would there possibly be a price break on just supplying the rings?

If not, I understand, but that is a lot of bolts to have to package with eash set <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Yes, David, you can get a better deal if you don't get bolts... it'd be $69 per with no bolts or washers, just nuts. (they're insert-style nuts--I'm guessing you don't happen to have those--if you do, the price can come down a little more)

And yes, it's a whole lotta bolts. You save shipping too... that many bolts weighs almost ten pounds. They're not cheap, though--not the high-end allen-head stuff anyway. That's why they're at a premium price.

That's great Scott - thanks for working with us.. I like that in a business <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Scott@Rockstomper:
<STRONG>Hmm... I suppose I oughta...
</STRONG>

Thanks <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Does it matter what kind of wheel they go on? I have a set of Chrome mods that I may be interesting in turning into beadlocks. Would I have to clean the chrome of the edge where the weld would be?

I got my $$$$ right here waiting to order my MRT beadlocks then you post this. <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> Looks like a killer idea here Scott. I might just get a set from you.....Take it easy-Tim/Shaker <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by GloNDark:
<STRONG>Does it matter what kind of wheel they go on? I have a set of Chrome mods that I may be interesting in turning into beadlocks. Would I have to clean the chrome of the edge where the weld would be?</STRONG>

It matters; they're steel, so you can't weld 'em to aluminum wheels. Past that, yes, you have to take the weld surface down to bare steel on the wheel; if that means sanding off paint, wire-wheeling off rust, grinding off chrome, yes, you have to do it, or the welds will not hold.
Bottom line is, you have to prep the wheel just like anything else you'd weld--if you do a crummy prep job, the weld will be porous and leaky, and you won't be happy with it.
If you do a good prep (and weld) job, it'll be easy, probably won't have leaky welds, and it'll be strong.
If we do the install, we take off whatever's in the way of a good weld, then put the locks on; if that means we trash the chrome around the edges from grinding and/or welding heat... sorry... that's what it takes to do it right. The damaged chrome won't be visible from the outside, although the beadlock wouldn't be chrome unless you got it plated after the fact. When we install 'em, we'll spritz 'em with paint afterwards; if we ship 'em out, they're unpainted (bare) steel.

Would you recomment siliconing the weld just to be sure of an airtight seal, like how MRT does theirs?

Also, I am a bit confused how you are adding 2" width to the wheel. I would thin kyou are just welding a ring to the bead lip, so that would only move that bead out an inch tops... amd I missing something?

QUote from above, essplains it:

<STRONG>Since normal wheels are measured outer bead seat area to outer seat area, and beadlocks have a non-fixed outer seat area, seating the tire on the inner surface of the bead instead, there's some variance in final wheel width, depending on how thick the bead is. The wheels (this may sound really silly, but it's true) end up "wider" with Swampers, than with, say, General Grabbers, because the Swamper bead is thicker, so the inner surface seats, but the outer surface dictates how wide the wheel is.
</STRONG>

Now I know what I'm going to do with my 15x6 rims once I wear out my 34x9.5s <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Damn you rock Scott!!! Gonna have to start saving for beadlocks now <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by DRM:
<STRONG>Would you recomment siliconing the weld just to be sure of an airtight seal, like how MRT does theirs?</STRONG>

Having never played with an MRT wheel, or done business with them, I can't honestly say good or bad about them... but if you need to silicone the weld, you probably should fix it (weld it closed) instead. The beadlock leaking problem is usually because the inner surface of the bead, isn't designed to seal, and many of the beadlocks out there, are stamped sheetmetal or similar, so you can't get a decent clamp onto the tire to really seat it tight. Using stronger material (1/4" steel) really helps that a lot; I've got mine cranked in to about 40 foot pounds on the bolts, which is well above what it needs, but it doesn't seem to leak that way. It'll actually not leak with it down around 20 foot pounds, but even that's pushing it for some lock setups.

Siliconing the inner surface of the outer bead, or the outer surface of the inner beadlock ring (basically, siliconing the tire to the wheel) would not be a bad idea, in my opinion, since that'll only help assure that the tire seals up well against the wheel. But if you have to silicone a welded junction to make it air tight... that's a sign of weak points in the weld too, and not a good thing.

<STRONG>Also, I am a bit confused how you are adding 2" width to the wheel. I would thin kyou are just welding a ring to the bead lip, so that would only move that bead out an inch tops... amd I missing something?</STRONG>

It's confusing... but measure out a 15" wheel, without a tire on it. Let's say it's an 8" wheel. So it's 8" from the inside surface of one bead seat to the inside of the other. Not outside, not wheel lip... inside.
So you've got your 8" width. Now measure out to the outer edge of the wheel lip on the outer bead, from the inner... you're up to about 8.5". Now add another 1/4" (for the inner ring), and you're up to 8.75". Now add a tire bead, and measure to the outside of it. Depending on what it is, that'll add between 3/4" and 1.5", typically, around an inch. So you're up to 9.75" to the outer edge of the bead, which is the same as inner edge of the wheel to inner edge of the wheel... so it may not be a full 2" in all cases, because of bead thickness variations between different tires... but it'll be at least 1.5", and may be as much as 2.25". That's why I say "approximately" 2"... that's a decent average based on the typical trail tires we've got around the shop (mostly Swampers, but some BFG's and some other stuff).

Just for giggles, I went out and weighed a couple rings... without hardware, the rings to do one bead on one wheel, weigh 12.25 pounds (yes, that's per wheel). Hardware will add another probably 3-5 pounds per, so these are very definitely not for the light-duty low-shipping-cost setup... but a full truck set, will fit in a box about the size of a large pizza. A 65-pound large pizza... so UPS will be thrilled. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

[ 10-26-2001: Message edited by: Scott@Rockstomper ]

Have you got a picture showing how the inner ring should be welded to the rim? And maybe one showing how hte tire sits on the inner ring (no outer ring installed)?

Thanks!

Originally posted by Bear:
<STRONG>Have you got a picture showing how the inner ring should be welded to the rim? And maybe one showing how hte tire sits on the inner ring (no outer ring installed)?

Thanks!</STRONG>

These are my MRT rims, but Scott's will look the exact same without the outer ring on there.

You just center the tire (I did mine by eye) on the rim then put on the outer ring and try to keep it centered as you put in a few bolts to get it started:

http://www.tennessee4x4.com/toyota/images/bead-bog-06.JPG

You can see the rest of my MRT instalation of the tires on the rims here (most should be applicable to RockStomper's tire instalation as well, besides the welding part.) http://www.tennessee4x4.com/toyota/beadlock_wheels.htm

I'll be ordering a set as well as a friend as soon as I can find a cheap set of wheels. Local shops want $40-50 for a 15x8" wheel!! Just need to keep looking. Sounds like a great setup and awfully beefy as well.

ok here is my question. most b/lock outer rings are rolled on the outer edge. why is this? i was under the impresson that this prevented the ring from cutting into the tire when it is aired down and folded over in rockcrawling type situations. is this true? if so what prevents this in your locks?

Do these use 3/8 hardware? One of my complaints with my MRTs is the 5/16 bolts.

Pete

And to think I'd planned to toss the 6.75x16.5" rims on my M880. I'll need five. :D