How many of you have used the exhaust tubeing for the heat exchanger?
I am going with 1/2 line from the pump to a tee and then 3/8 ea. from there. So my question is 1) how many wraps around the exhause pipe did you go with 2) did you use 3/8 3) what GPM is your pump?

Thanks

a friend used a little 12v RV pump and it works well. i'll ask him the output. he also built his own exchanger so i'll see how much 1/2 tube he used. i also work at a plumbing supply, so if you need copper stuff, let me know.;)

a 4.6 gpm sureflow pump is a good one one to get.

Use drinking water quality hoses for your shower lines so it doesn't taste funny.

for the exchanger, I remember a thread last summer on the exhaust exchanger, but I searched and couldn't find it.

Nasvik and another friend have a hot water exchanger and they seem to work pretty well.

paul had some pics on his website but I couldn't find his thread on this from last summer either:confused:

call me stupid but didnt sum one havea write up about using there engine as a heat source.? i dont rember but it seems like sum one had a write up on it... maybe ivebeen seein shit again..

Dean,

Talk to Cbasset, send him a PM..


He makes the heat exchangers at a reasonable price.

Ok.... no one seemed to read the question. Dean knows about exchangers. He wants to use is exhaust pipe as the heat source, though, not the coolant. :rolleyes:

Dean - I started a thread in Gen 4x4 last summer that brought out a lot of info about exhaust wrapped exchangers. Do a search. :flipoff2:

Paul

I have been planning to run 2 lines from the pump, one through the exhaust exchanger and the other a bypass then use the vavles from a real shower setup to control hot cold mix. I just can't see the number of wraps being consistent depending on the outside temp and the length of hose you use.

Sorry it was early in the morning..

I did the search and found some info on what I want to do but just looking for more. Once you instal all this it is a b!tch to go back and remove something and change it so I want all the info I can get before I go ahead. I sent the guy a PM that built what I am looking to build but he hasn't logged on since May sometime and I would like some input before I build it this weekend that is after I instal my transfercase:D
There is quite a bit of info on the standard hot water heat exchanger but that isn't what I want to build I want to wrap the copper around the exhaust.

Originally posted by JEEP_TJ_FREAK
I have been planning to run 2 lines from the pump, one through the exhaust exchanger and the other a bypass then use the vavles from a real shower setup to control hot cold mix. I just can't see the number of wraps being consistent depending on the outside temp and the length of hose you use.

This is what I am planning also. Near the front bumper will be the pump and from the pump will be a 1/2" line that comes back to where it will split. At the split I have a 20' piece of 3/8" copper that I will wrap around the exhaust and from the other port of the tee will be the cold. I too am using a cool shower valve setup I bought at Lowes because I looked at doing it with ballvalves and such but by the time it bought all the stuff it wasn't much more.

What I would like to know is pump GPM and wraps of tubing. Someone said a 4.6 is a good one and that is a good thing because I am going with a 5-6 GPM pump. One thing to remember with an exhaust wrapped setup I but it will be a good idea to keep the hot side open after use to let out any steam in case the water boils.

What else can anyone come up with?

How hot of water do you want?

Any idea what your exhaust pipe temp is?

Size of exhaust pipe?

I want it to be hot! The pipe OD is about 2"

Originally posted by 66CJdean
I want it to be hot! The pipe OD is about 2"

Well I talked this over with a Mech E at work. He doesn't like the iexhaust idea, he had other ideas that are too large to carry on a rig.

Clean the rust off the exhaust where you are gonna wrap it. Obviously close to the manifold/header. You are gonna (obviously) get the best heat transfer with metal on metal contact, and it might be a bitch to wrap it that tight. If you can't get it tight, insulate the "coil" area, and it will help a ton with the radiant heat transfer. I don't have much else, but start off with the long coil, you can always shorten it. Also have the inlet for the coil on the exhaust side....

I don't know..a few ideas.... :confused:

I think puting that exhaust heat wrap that it used on header to reduce the under the hood temp would be a good idea. It will keep it from ratteling and bring up the heat.
Thanks

Thats a real good idea, I was trying to figure out a good insulator for it.:D

Might be a bit of overkill here, but you could braze the coil around the exhaust... would be a bitch to replace down the road though.

I think the guy that brought it up last year brazed his to the exhaust. Should work fine.

Dean - my thoughts are that you'll get too hot too fast and you'll have to regulate with plenty of cold water. Keeping it flowing when not in use will be important because of the possibility of steam - I can burn myself with my shower if I turn off the shower head for a few seconds to lather up. And that's only running in 200 degree water.

I'd run it long, but plan on cutting some off. And I'd still err on the short side. :D

Paul (didn't think you showered)

I always thought that smell was you:flipoff2:

My first attempt at the exchanger didn't work. I took a piece of galvanized pipe and wrapped it with 10 feet of 3/8" copper. Connected the pipe in the heater core stream. Well, it would heat the water enough to run it for about 8 seconds, then you'd have to turn the shower off for 30, on for 8, etc. PITA!! I'm going with the exhaust idea this time as well, and I'm starting with 20 feet of copper this time. I'll trim if needed.

Camping World has a cool faucet setup with the correct fitting for a shower head for $25. Build a small enclosure for it and you're pretty much set. I'd put the switch for the pump in it too.

Dean, I used a 12 volt marine pump I bought at West-marine in stockton. Its only a 1.6 gpm, its works great. sorry I cant help with the exhaust, I used my heater-hose. good luck:smokin:

I wish I would have thought about going to Camping World. $25 is better than the $58 I paid but I am sure they are not the same thing just do the same thing. When i built my rear deck roof rack I buit it with a shower in mind. I built the rods that go in it to hold up the shower curtain last year to use for one of those solar showers.

First off, this is a killer subject. I love it. Only POR can get a full on tech talk of exhaust diam and desired temp for a shower, this is why I come here!

Now, seeing as nobody has a hardcore answer for Dean I will put one out there and say that if you wrapped 8 feet of tubing and put it under header wrap it would get pretty freaking hot at around 5 gpm. This is my reasoning.

Earlier a fellow said he wrapped 10 feet around a pipe full of engine coolant. Lasted 8 seconds or so. Not sure of GPM for that but I am assuming it is around the same. Well his temp is what 180-190 degree's? How hot is your exhaust? A whole bunch hotter!

A pyrometer would be nice but we all know exhaust temps are in the 500 range (right? or am I farked up. Might be but this is the number that is sticking in my head from school 10 years ago).

Plus you will be insulated increasing the transfer and retention of the heat.

I personally wish I did not have about ten irons in the fire or I would be all over trying this out. I have always wanted a OBS.

Please let me know how this turns out for you, since I would like to maybe try this in the future.

I will be doing this this weekend once the transfercase is back in. I'll take plenty of pictures and after this comming big weekend I'll even give you a report on how well it worked.

Originally posted by nasvik
I think the guy that brought it up last year brazed his to the exhaust. Should work fine.

Dean - my thoughts are that you'll get too hot too fast and you'll have to regulate with plenty of cold water. Keeping it flowing when not in use will be important because of the possibility of steam - I can burn myself with my shower if I turn off the shower head for a few seconds to lather up. And that's only running in 200 degree water.

I'd run it long, but plan on cutting some off. And I'd still err on the short side. :D

Paul (didn't think you showered)


I am with Paul on this one Dean. Do this feel you're exhaust when you start up your rig ! Instantly hot or hot enough , that it will burn you. Typical exhaust about 250 to 300 degrees at manifolds even hotter somtimes depends on application ,I can get some reading's tomorrow.

I think your coolant is far more stable about 160 to 200 degree's and it is not going to scald you. Like a exhaust heat exchanger at much higher temps will do IMO.

I had this happen today at the shop! ouch !
but not bad!
DOH!


oh yeah I am back!

Adam,:rasta:

Thanks for the Temps adam.

I think that 10 feet wrapped around the header would be alittle much but that is where I would start and just uncoil and snip it off.

You could run a bigger tube that will allow more flow and that might cool it down a bit if it is to hot.

Oh I cannot wait to see this done! I want to add OBS to my sig!

What about doing the reverse of a fuel cooler? Run your copper line into a coolant resivoir. That would be pretty consistant and allow enough time for the heat transfer to take place.

Originally posted by Magoo
What about doing the reverse of a fuel cooler? Run your copper line into a coolant resivoir. That would be pretty consistant and allow enough time for the heat transfer to take place.


That's what most people that have on board showers use. Mine is a 16" section of 2" copper with 18' of 1/4" coiled inside it. Coolant runs through the big tube, shower water through the small. Get's very hot.

Paul

I took some temp reading's today and the temps are about 250 to 350 degrees at the exhaust manifold and tapers down too about 250 to 280 later in the exhaust system standard TBI 350

but the rise time for this heat is almost instant! As for the coolant much colder for longer amount of time

Adam,

Originally posted by Adam Ant



I am with Paul on this one Dean. Do this feel you're exhaust when you start up your rig ! Instantly hot or hot enough , that it will burn you. Typical exhaust about 250 to 300 degrees at manifolds even hotter somtimes depends on application ,I can get some reading's tomorrow.

I think your coolant is far more stable about 160 to 200 degree's and it is not going to scald you. Like a exhaust heat exchanger at much higher temps will do IMO.

I had this happen today at the shop! ouch !
but not bad!
DOH!


oh yeah I am back!

Adam,:rasta:

The heat transfer is gonna be pretty inefficient, and he can alter the temp by changing the pump GPM (assuming he has that option????), which will change the speed the water is traveling, plus good use of the mixing valve.

I do agree that the best bet would be a HX off the coolant, but how I would do it would take up lots of space......

Anyway, thats what you silly Kalifornians get for going on 26 mile trails:flipoff2: ;)

Just throwing my $.005 worth. What about using the AT cooling part of the radiator. I'm sure most of you have automatics, but what about us manual tranny guys. I figure the radiator stays hot pretty long and might have enough coolant tubes for the transmission/OBS to work????
Anyone??
Ricky...seeya...

i read all the way through that thread to see if anyone came up with the idea to use the trans cooler ports in the radiator, and there it was at the end:rolleyes: has anyone tried it? it has a long enough pass through the radiator to pick up all the heat from the coolant(180-200deg.) so it should be able to produce the 5-6gpm your pump would, lots of hot water;)

why not route the water coils inside an old hollowed out catalytic converter case? ( they normally have hoses routed to the engine compartment anyways, I'm sure they smog dudes woudn't even notice........

A guy in our club used the tranny cooler in the rad. He liked it but if you use cold water then he had to run it two times to get it hot. I dont know what size of pump he has (gpm). Hay Dean I just picked up a shower thats about 8" long and 3" tall X 3" wide if you put it back together you can cut it up and see how many feet the copper is. Give me a call

I made a shower for my Jeep a few years back and ended up with 20 ft of 1/4" copper coiled inside about a foot of 2" copper. I had to split the 1/4" into two 10ft coils to get enough GPM thru them to make the showerhead spray. I'm running a small (2gpm?) flojet pump that I got from Grainger and a ball valve on the showerhead. With a 180 deg t-stat in the engine, and the ball valve wide open, the water comes out moderately cool and fast. If I throttle the valve back a bit, the water warms up to whatever temp I want, up to uncomfortably warm at not very much flow. Based on this setup, I'd use about 25 ft of 1/4" copper next time, but what I have works well enough.

The biggest problem I have with my setup is that the "self-priming" pump doesn't prime itself very well. I've been using an outboard motor squeeze bulb primer and it works OK. It'd be nice if the pump would do it by itself, though.

I tried the A/T cooler in the radiator and frankly, I couldn't tell that it had warmed the water at all.

Fire away!

To me the At cooler in the radiator would be to restrictive so it would send most of the water through the cold side and therefor the show would be a cold one but I don't know.

I have everything plummed in but I don't have the wireing to the pressure switch hooked up so I havent used it yet. I'll take some pic's of it all once I have it going and post them. I went with about 16' of 3/8 along the exhaust with the heat wrap around it and the exhaust so it should heat up nicely and wont rattle.

Damn dude, a pressure switch and all :eek:.

I used a pump for an ATV mounted ag sprayer ($129 at northern tool thats pump, 15 gallon FDA tank and sprayer) that was of the "on demand" style pretty much a 1 wire hookup. Mine is for drinking water only so I didn't put an exchanger inline.

I can't wait til you get some pics up, sounds like a hell of a setup to me.

I look forward to posting them because it looks really sweet if I do say so myself. It is ran in parker pushlok hose and then tees into stainless with all swagelok connections and stainless tubing so it sure looks pretty at least what you can see because it is tucked up in the frame for alot of it.

Swedgelock :eek: You do work in silicon valley:flipoff2:


Your ass is going to burn. What about a dump valve ala H2O heater if the heated water stops flowing and turns to steam/too hot? You could use a fan thermostat and an electric soleniod.

I plan to always keep the valve open onthe hot side to let out any pressure or steam while not in use. If that doesn't work out so well then I will come up plan B.
just wait till I put up the pic's cuz everyone will want one.

So where are the pictures? :confused: I have a commercial dishwasher sprayer that I want to use for mine. I was about to go the hot water route for mine, and hadn't even thought about using the exhaust. I like this idea better. And the abillity to use a mixing valve is perfect

Pictures?

Well I can finally take some pics this weekend now that it is all together. What I have found is that 16' of 3/8" tubing with it all heat wrapped isn't nearly enough. Next go arround I will shoot for 50' or so if I can get it to fit but to make things easy I made the tubing run up and down the exhaust not arround it. the shower head was bought at Lowes and was a very simple and cheap shower head and it works great. The pump is rubber vain style pump that puts out 5GPM max but it doesn't work well at all for this opperation. It doesn't have enough pick-up and the flow drops off very fast so I will be going with an RV style diaphram pump. Northern Tool has a 5GPM one for $89 so I will be getting that one. I will be swapping out the motor this winter so I wanted to at least get an idea of how much tubing it was going to take so in all the project was still a success even with the setbacks. I will building some Hummer wheels this weekend that I need to take pic.s of so I will get some of the shower while I am down there.

Dean, I think you will be putting a vavle inline with the pickup to slow the flow down if you use a 5gpm pump. That water is going to be moving really fast in 3/8" tube. Imaging filling a 5 gallon bucket up every minute out of a 3/8" tube. It will be boookin'!
I am using a HX with a 2.8gpm pump. I dont think mine is as effecient as Paul's, but I can run full flow if the inlet water is not too freezing.

50ft? wow! That's alot more than I ever planned on using. Any thoughts to going this route? - http://www.blazinobsession.com/shower.html This was my first option, then I had an idea to coil 3/8 tubing in a case like that, then I read about your exhaust idea. But if you say 16' of tubing isn't nearly enough, maybe I'll stick with that first idea instead.

If you are going the ABS route, or large copper pipe, I would run the antifreeze through the copper coils and the cold water through the ABS or copper pipe.
This would work like the heat exchangers at our power plant. The large chamber of the ABS or copper gives the fresh water "resident time" in the exchanger and would make the exchanger more efficient.

I will make my onboard shower HX out of aluminum plate with a trans cooler inside of it. The heat sinks of the trans cooler will make the heat transfer very efficient.

I have been thinking of building a shower also. I have thought of using a heat exchanger from a refrigeration unit. Which way do you guys think the water heats best engine coolant thru coils or thru the main tube? I can put my hands on both designs or materials to build a bigger on. What about a valve to regulate water flow thru the exchanger?

Originally posted by Jason Lockwood

The biggest problem I have with my setup is that the "self-priming" pump doesn't prime itself very well. I've been using an outboard motor squeeze bulb primer and it works OK. It'd be nice if the pump would do it by itself, though.


I was planning to ask about this. This sounds like a good soulution. I bought a 12v self priming pump from Ace Hardware, the setup worked great on the drive, but when I had it bolted in and everything it wouldn't self prime. Ive been sitting it on the ground by the creek and it works fine. My pump is rated for a 10' lift and will supposably push 30'.

I have about 9' of 3/8 stuffed into a 12" piece of 2 inch copper tubing. There are 3 ball valves on the coolant side, one as a bypass and 2 as lock offs, that way coolant isnt running through the HX all the time. You can regulate temp with the ball valves as well. with engine temp at ~190 its nice and warm dont know the temp though. above that its too hot. The presure is decent but would be better with 1/2" tubing.

wouldn't a smaller diameter give you more pressure? I was thinkingof using 1/4 inch but I am a bit away from doing it still.

Well it took months to post a few pictures and I was about out of film when I did take them but here they are in all their glory! http://www.respite.org/images/cj66dean/shower1.jpg http://www.respite.org/images/cj66dean/shower2.jpg http://www.respite.org/images/cj66dean/shower3.jpg http://www.respite.org/images/cj66dean/shower4.jpg

Well tell us how it works. Hey, you are not advertising again are you?:flipoff2:

just get naked and jump in the river.:D

Well 16ft of 3/8 is not enough and think 30+ ft is the wat to go. Also the centrifugal pump doesn't work as well as a the diaghram pumps so I am going to change that too. Though it doesn't work as well as I like I did learn what I needed to know so that when I put in the new motor this winter I now have a good idea and can go from there.

How about a coil in the bottom tank of the radiator, like an automatic trans-cooler. Just thinking out loud.

i just saw the end all-be-all exchanger for onboard showers..

how bout a diesel inline preheater?

http://www.justjeep.rockcrawler.com/4th.htm#shower

or one with two that will scald you?

http://www.justjeep.rockcrawler.com/kevshower.html

Here's an additional idea on the heat exchanger. Ford Crown Victoria's with the 4.6 V8 have this nice aluminum Oil cooler that taps off a radiator hose. I picked one up from the junkyard for $15 bucks. It's about 15" long. You can disassemble it to clean out the old engine oil and run water through the oil pasage. I'm going to plumb it in next week and run a garden hose through the oil line and see how hot it gets. I'll post the results.

How large are the shower mixing valves you guys are finding?

My dad and I were planning on building a box with coils in it that slipped over the end of you exhaust pipe. That way the actual exhaust gas flows over it. We were thinking about 6x6x12 or something with as much tubing as you could cram into it. You can always turn up the cold water. Any thoughts on this idea?

~Kirk

Doubt that tailpipe exhaust would have enough heat left to adequately heat water. It cools a lot by the time it comes out the back.
I think the best chances for an exhaust heat exchanger would be to wrap manifold or maybe cat.

Originally posted by evilpsych
i just saw the end all-be-all exchanger for onboard showers..

how bout a diesel inline preheater?

http://www.justjeep.rockcrawler.com/4th.htm#shower

or one with two that will scald you?

http://www.justjeep.rockcrawler.com/kevshower.html

Picked a Modine diesel heat exchanger off Ebay for $50 That and some swagelock fittings and 1/2" tube running up to my grill will be my shower setup. A bypass and a tow knob shower with a low flow head and 12v pump will work just fine. Going to make it disassemble and fit in back.