Saw where some guys wanted to bust up Bobby Longs birfs and were gonna run some alloy axles. Anybody know who makes/sells them and if they are Mini's only? Could go full custom at Moser, they are an hour away, but a guys gotta have choices you know!

BTW, I have munched 5 of them and the Longfields still look good! The last 2 were on 35 MTRS at erocc.

BTW, I'm not trying to smoke the Longfields, just looking for a little more before the inners snap.

CV Unlimited sells them... www.cvunlimited.com , and ask for George. They're $260 a pair IIRC, and are 40% stronger than stock... BUT beware...

A guy named Ron (can't remember the last name) was at Jellico for the ARCA comps, and was running longfields with the super shafts... When his inners went, it exploded the knuckle housing completely off the axle housing... longfield survived though.. :D

Bet that sounded a bit louder than your average "pop"! :eek: :eek:

Originally posted by Eskimo
CV Unlimited sells them... www.cvunlimited.com , and ask for George. They're $260 a pair IIRC, and are 40% stronger than stock... BUT beware...

A guy named Ron (can't remember the last name) was at Jellico for the ARCA comps, and was running longfields with the super shafts... When his inners went, it exploded the knuckle housing completely off the axle housing... longfield survived though.. :D

Bet that sounded a bit louder than your average "pop"! :eek: :eek:


I talked to Bobby Long and edited this post as a result.

Thanks for the CV tip.

I was at Jellico, couldn't have been 15 ft from Ron Maximoff when he broke that knuckle. Here's what I saw and know first hand, and note the order of events. If you know different, please set me straight.

Ron, well actually Dar asked me if I had spare inners on Saturday morning after they replaced their last one. So unless he just wanted my stash (i doubt it) they had no inners left. This is after he munched both of them on obstacle 1, before 10 am.

Late saturday on the last obstacle of the day #6, he broke something. Without any tools (key words) they claimed it was a Longfield. How they came to that conclusion escapes me. But nonetheless they were broke without any inners left. I know they didn't have any Longfields, but probably did have birfs.


Sunday they ran the first 4 obstacles behind us. On number 11 (5th of the day) they ripped the studs and part of the knuckle early in the obstacle. I was standing right there and no pops, snaps or any sounds of breakage emitted. He continued not knowing the hi steer arm had been ripped off for at least 3 minutes grinding against the rocks going nowhere. It wasn't until it stopped pulling on that wheel they stopped. They welded the knuckle up and got off the obstacle. I didn't participate in the repair so I don't know the extent of the damage.

If you have ever seen those arms/studs get ripped out you know that is only the beginning of the damage. Hi steer alone puts an enormous amount of stress on parts that are only intended for 29 - 31" tires. I have exploded more than my share of birfs, snapped 5 inners since January, and retrieved/repaired 2 busted knuckles that had hi steer set ups.

My point was, respectfully, I don't think a birf/longfield exploded, nor do I think it caused their problem. Additionally I don't think a longfield will cause any more damage than a stock birf, but I haven't broken one of them yet! If the birf did break it was probably a result of the knuckle being broken, and the angle the tire was facing under load.

I am still curious abut the reports of the broken Longfield on Saturday.

It turns out that Ron is sending a broken Longfield in to Bobby. The inner race broke, not the bell. The Longfield didn't break the knuckle, but the opposite is more likely, since the right front stopped pulling after the knuckle was broken.

I would go with the Cro Mo ones that All Pro is selling.

I am not sure how CV Unlimited does their testing.

Remember theory is one thing, but i also broke 5 Newfields:confused:

I just called All Pro, mini's only, not enough demand for the Cruiser inners to meet there minimum build requirements.

Next call to Moser.

60 series long side = mini long side

but thier short side is shorter :(

and our short side is the same across ALL cruisers.........

how hard is it to make it then :(

hey spaceghost what do you do about those studs snapping off, cause im going to hydro soon and can foresee problems now, if he brakes it w/o hydro, im gunna
:nuke: them studs right off the knuckle

or are they good if done up tight?

Talked with Ron this morning and he confirmed he did break a longfield. The inner cage broke. The outer section held together. He figures it probably fractured when both inners went at the same time.

cj-etr:roxy:

Originally posted by BJ On Roids
hey spaceghost what do you do about those studs snapping off, cause im going to hydro soon and can foresee problems now, if he brakes it w/o hydro, im gunna
:nuke: them studs right off the knuckle

or are they good if done up tight?

The problem stems from the added leverage of the hy steer setup. I don't have this setup so I haven't attempted to improve it. Although the studs do snap off, what I have seen as a bigger problem is the top of the knuckle cracks and breaks off, pulling studs out when it goes. Maybe some creative gusseting of the Knuckle area.

Mike, I should have added this caveat... I got the info pretty much third hand...

From what I was told, it seemed as though when the inner shaft went, IT caused the damage to the knuckle.. That's pretty cool the the bell of the longfield survived. But I didn't say that they blew a longfield... just the inners.

CVU doesn't claim that the newfields are as strong as a longfield, but they are much stronger than a standard birf. For a recreational guy like me, it's a good weak point. For a guy on much bigger tires who drives much harder and is in comps like you, I can understand you wanting stronger birfs than the newfields.

By the way, where in the hell do you guys get all these inners? I have been looking for 2 months on the board and FINALLY located a set! (Course, NOT being in CA means cruisers are rare..cruiser parts are rare too!)

Rich,
I wasn't disputing any of your info specifically, I was offering my opinion based on experience and what I saw standing a few feet away. I was questioning how they new, and others repeated that they broke the longfield. I am guessing they couldn't steer it and came to that conclusion before the tore into it. Maybe the sound when it broke tipped them off, the inners do make a different sound. As far as I know they broke the longfield Saturday, and it was a mini birf that broke on Sunday, since that's all they had to replace it with.

I posted here for inners and bought one pair. A buddy and I both did swaps to get disk brakes, so we had the early inners and coarse birfs no one wanted, I parted a 60 and got a short side, which is the more common one to break. I also found 2 pairs I have to go pick up in Southern Indiana.

Today I am gonna spend some time and see what's involved with getting some custom inner axles made. I have some ideas, and talked with Bobby Long, for a better design in some areas. I'll keep you all posted.

Rich we need to throw back a few :beer: at the July event.

Mike, I'm very interested in what you learn about the longfields and stronger inner shafts. I've been going thru Newfields like a 4-year-old goes thru cotton candy, and every time I junk the newfield, cage, sleeve, and inner shaft splines. It gets old, as you know....at least with the longfields, I'm only out the inner shaft. And carrying a emergency weld stick to tack out the busted part would be no biggie for me either.

Thus far, I've totalled two 2nd gen Newfields and junked the guts on two 4th gen Newfields. I'm down to one spare long side shaft and no shorts....tho I've got 2 full sets with birfs coming and more calls to make.

Ideally, the weak point is pushed out to the lockout, a nice 10 minute fix. Ideally, it isn't pushed into the front pinion or further into the driveline...and ideally, it doesn't junk the front locker in the process. (tho I DO need an excuse to upgrade to an ARB or something like that)

A man can dream, can't he??

Eskimo, empty your mail box, it's full. You have to show all, to get to the old message.

Woody, If Moser would answer their phone I would have some info :mad:

Have you read all the posts on Longfields on this site? Lots of info in the mini forum. Guys breaking their Detroits when the axle snap, lots of controversy. Most don't think the hub (at least an aisin) will be the next weak spot.

I have a spare set of Longfields, maybe a trade is in order! Sell then Newfields while they are still in 1 piece. I need an Atlas II!

Moser will cut splines into anything for $50.

Get some long side mini axles and have them cut down by Moser....

Hell, 2 for 1 if you go that route.

As for the Atlas...that the beginning of a hell of a lot of mods..that is where I started and look where it go me :D

Originally posted by SpaceGhost
Have you read all the posts on Longfields on this site? Lots of info in the mini forum. Guys breaking their Detroits when the axle snap, lots of controversy. Most don't think the hub (at least an aisin) will be the next weak spot.

I have a spare set of Longfields, maybe a trade is in order! Sell then Newfields while they are still in 1 piece. I need an Atlas II!

I go thru the mini forum once a week for longfield posts....been keeping up pretty well with it. Hence my comment about maybe needing an ARB upgrade, to eliminate the dog-tooth issue. I was hoping that I could push it to my Superwinch hubs...at $75 or so a pair, that's not a bad spare to carry...plus they are small and light. The Aisin is too tough, I agree, which is why mine are on the bench and not installed yet.

Spare Longfields....if I thought I could sell the Newfields and not lose my ass on them, I would. I might have one junked now, not gonna tear into it until I have Longfields to drop in. Got weeks until the BHCC comes up...heh heh

Plus, the Newfields would be good spares, just in case....you did "new" Longfields right, not exchanges? I've got a pair of 84 mini birfs to send in....

Moser will cut splines into anything for $50.

I think the splines are raised on my L/C axle shafts, so cutting them would not work would it???

I think moser, mark williams or dutchman would be the best idea. All of these companies build shafts for drag cars, so they should be able to accomodate.


-Brett

Woody,
I have both, built from new and built from used cores. I gave a guy a set a GSMTR and he sent cores in to be modded. Just before that I ordered another set as spares since he hadn't come thru replacing mine yet. Bobby shipped then together, and I can't tell them apart. He said they are the same, so do the cores.

Brett,
I have dialed Moser's # at least a dozen times since yesterday afternoon, wish they would answer the damn phone. I am hoping they are the solution since they are an hour away. I have some ideas to run by them to make the inners even better, not just stronger. Like loose to of the clip grooves, and widen the seal surface.

Nolan,
I'm just at a stopping point, actually going backwards to compete. The Atlas or 300 would give me front drive which would be an advantage, plus the strength, which I am concerned about. I don't foresee swapping axles just to grab more rocks, like you discoverd, need big meats to take advantage of the axle strength.

What breaks next is a good question. I intend to find out. Ever since I broke my hand waving at Woodys wife on the trail, it has been a constant evolution for me. In some cases pioneering as it relates to my local contacts, in others it has been tried and true (sm420), regardless if you know me, breakage and body damage has not been a concern for a long time now. So if it is the ARB, or pinion, or the tcase that gives up next, I'll be sure to share and we will all "go to school" together.

And BTW, since I don't recall saying this before, Thanks to all you guys that have contributed, even indirectly, or unconsciencely to my hobby.

Originally posted by SpaceGhost
Ever since I broke my hand waving at Woodys wife on the trail, it has been a constant evolution for me.

So THAT's what happened that day....

flirt :p :p :p

Like your ideas for the inner shaft changes...should help with strength some, and ease replacement installs. Hope Moser wakes up and takes the call!

Woody, I like the idea of putting some Warn or Superwinch hubs on the front axle.

I say get some Cro Mo inner axles, fine spline 3rd, Longfields...adjust your steering stops properly and put some of those hubs on.

Front axles do not HAVE to break. They dont HAVE to have a fuse....hell I don't have a "Fuse" in my drivetrain.

I overbuilt it and I have not broken ANYTHING since September 2001.

Build that Cruiser axle like I stated above and enjoy some worry-free wheeling....I have sure enjoyed it.

Originally posted by wngrog
Woody, I like the idea of putting some Warn or Superwinch hubs on the front axle.

I say get some Cro Mo inner axles, fine spline 3rd, Longfields...adjust your steering stops properly and put some of those hubs on.

Front axles do not HAVE to break. They dont HAVE to have a fuse....hell I don't have a "Fuse" in my drivetrain.

I overbuilt it and I have not broken ANYTHING since September 2001.

Build that Cruiser axle like I stated above and enjoy some worry-free wheeling....I have sure enjoyed it.

Amen Brother,
We'll see if mine hold up...

Good info about the AP long side axle shafts.. I'll get a set as soon as possible.


:D

So why could you not have an All-Pro Heavy Duty LONG Side axle cut down to fit the short side?

That seems like the way to go if no-one comes up with a Cro Mo Cruiser axle :confused: