what do you guys use??
pros and cons?





edit im 6'7" and aroun 300 pounds

I use a semi-soft collar.

pro's : it helps with fatigue

con's : if I crash hard enuff I will probally break my neck again

I have an R3. Not exactly the most comfortable thing when you ride a 1000 miles in a car, but it will save your ass in a wreck...

http://www.pciraceradios.com/product_images/1401hr.jpg

I really like my Hans device, though I have not used it much in a desert truck, but it is really comfortable for road racing. The longest I've even spent wearing it is 6 hours in a mini enduro, but it was still comfortable as I was getting out of the car, as an added bonus, I got it for free from a buddy.

I'm interested in trying the R3, PCI seems to push it instead of the Hans, not sure why, but I'd like to try it out, see which I prefer.

Those foam dealies that Camo uses are far far better than nothing, and can really help you out, but I think all the santioning bodies will start to require a real head and neck restraint like the Hans and the R3 sooner rather than later.

I used the R3 in the B1K, worked fine and was comfortable. You can rent to own them at www.safedrives.com
good people to work with.

I used the R3 in the B1K, worked fine and was comfortable. You can rent to own them at www.safedrives.com
good people to work with.



Where do find anything about "rent to own"?

I have an R3. Not exactly the most comfortable thing when you ride a 1000 miles in a car, but it will save your ass in a wreck...

http://www.pciraceradios.com/product_images/1401hr.jpg

I also have an R3. It's comfortable and all, but I've been thinking about using a thinner neck collar with it to keep the head bobble down. In our 1706 car, I have to have the restraint straps a little looser than recommended so I can see the GPS and switches.

Do you use anything else or the R3 by itself?

-Dan

Where do find anything about "rent to own"?

http://www.safedrives.com/proddetail.asp?prod=R3headneckrestraintRental&cat=82

Check this link or call them.

http://www.safedrives.com/proddetail.asp?prod=R3headneckrestraintRental&cat=82

Check this link or call them.

THANKS

any one run the hans?
i read that they got the best numbers in a test.

i found a dealer in Denver, i would rather try one on than order one and hane to eat the shipping on something didn't fit

Supposedly, the HANS is only rated for frontal impacts whereas the R3 is rated for multiple side impacts as well as frontal(ie barrell rolls?)

Probably just a bunch of marketing hype, but I went with the R3 because of that.

-Dan

I belive Doc Rocks on the board is a dealer for the Hans. You can find him in the competitors forum.

This was discussed on the RDC (race dezert) about a month or so back. Lots of good info so search for it...

Jason :)

If anyone is interested, you can PM me under my vendor ID Mercer Motorsports for competitor pricing on a HANS device. I used a HANS device this past season in the XRRA and have become a firm believer in the device. In fact, I bought a HANS for my own use long before I decided to become a dealer for them.

My own HANS device:

http://www.sjmembers.com/gallery/albums/Pics-for-Canton-Racing/PICT0051.sized.jpg

http://www.sjmembers.com/gallery/albums/Pics-for-Canton-Racing/PICT0048.sized.jpg


The only recognized rating for Head and Neck restraint systems is SFI 38.1. In order to pass the specification, the restraint has to pass a 70 G, 30 degree angular frontal impact, and three straight frontal 70G impacts below 4000 N neck Tension.

The HANS does offer some degree of side impact protection just like all of the other devices. Not to say it offers the most side impact protection, but there is a reason SFI does not test for that. The primary intent of these devices is to help prevent a Basilar Skull fracture which is typically inflicted in straight frontal and angular frontal impacts.

Additional side impact protection can always be provided by netting and seat bolsters. I'm not going to get into what brand device is better than the other. IMO, that's each drivers own decision based on what they are comfortable with. I'm happy to offer information to help in making that decision and trust me, the only reason I became a dealer is because I truly believe in the product and want to try and help get more drivers to wear some sort of Head and Neck restraint device, whether HANS, Hutchens, or whatever.


BTW, regarding foam nect collars:

FOAM NECK COLLARS
Basilar skull fractures result from crashes in competition environments where, with restrained torsos but unrestrained head/helmets, head/helmets are subject to violent whipping motions and neck tension forces.

Correctly designed and used head and neck restraint systems aim to reduce the risks of basilar skull fractures. Foam neck collars can increase driver comfort by reducing head motions when driving on rough
surfaces.

Independent research at Wayne State University in 2002, conducted under the direction of Dr. John Melvin, confirmed that foam neck collars do not provide any significant protection from basilar skull fractures.
The accelerations typical of standard industry tests have the effect of increasing the weight of a head/helmet system by 70 times. This requires head and neck restraint systems to withstand a minimum load of 1,600 lbf (pounds-force) (7,000 N.) Real-life crashes have been recorded
where this multiplying effect is over 120 times.

Foam neck collars add weight to the head/helmet. In a crash, the effect of this added weight is multiplied in the same way as the head/helmet, and can increase the loads acting on the base of a user's skull.

Foam neck collars can be used with HANS Device head and neck restraint systems. If seeking the potential comfort benefits that using a foam neck collar with a head and neck restraint might offer, users need to understand that they are increasing the loads that have to be managed in a crash. The consequence of increased loads may be a reduction in the ultimate benefits offered by a head and neck restraint.

thanks for the info Doc. I think it answered my question.

Over on Race-Dezert, there was also the debate of which device works better with which seat type. They basically said that with the fixed race seats like a sparco, the HANS was a good choice, but with a suspension seat the R3 was better beacuse it's strapped to you and not totally dependent on the shoulder harnesses staying tight, due to seat movement.

I'm not trying to start a "this ones better than that one" debate, just trying to get some decent info for others to make an informed decision.

Thanks, Dan

FYI, some additional information regarding configuration and sizing. I use a HANS 20M.

1. SEATBACK ANGLE
For comfort the HANS should match the angle of your seatback.

MODEL 10 - EXTREME UPRIGHT SEAT
Fits many Sprint cars. Fits many people weighing under 75 lbs. in an upright seat.
If you sit very upright and cannot get comfortable with a Model 20 try this Model.

MODEL 20 - UPRIGHT SEAT
Fits all sedans including NASCAR, Busch, Sprint, Midget, Quarter Midget, Drag, Modified, Bandalero and similar. All sportscars including Porsche, BMW, Corvette, Honda, Viper etc. All Panoz Racing Series cars. Marine applications including UIM and Drag Boats.

NOTE: Drivers over 200 lbs. may find a Model 30 more comfortable in vehicles listed above.
In all cases driver comfort is the deciding factor.

MODEL 30 - SEMI RECLINED SEAT
Fits Formula Mazda, Atlantic, Infiniti Pro, Barber Dodge, IRL, C/D Sports Racer, Formula 1 and similar.

MODEL 40 - RECLINED SEAT
The Model 40 is a rare application and fits extremely reclined seats such as Vintage Formula Ford. Many people who buy a Model 40 return it for a Model 30. Please measure your seat (use an angle meter available at DIY-type stores) before ordering.

2. NECKSIZE
The width of the HANS Device collar is sized to fit your neck or shirt collar size.

Under 12.5 Inches - Size Extra Small (XS)

13 to 14.5 Inches - Size Small (S)

15 to 17.5 Inches - Size Medium (M)

18 to 20.5 Inches - Size Large (L)

Over 21 Inches - Size Extra Large (XL)

So a person with a 16" neck driving a Corvette would use a HANS 20M.
It's as easy as that!

thanks for the info Doc. I think it answered my question.

Over on Race-Dezert, there was also the debate of which device works better with which seat type. They basically said that with the fixed race seats like a sparco, the HANS was a good choice, but with a suspension seat the R3 was better beacuse it's strapped to you and not totally dependent on the shoulder harnesses staying tight, due to seat movement.

I'm not trying to start a "this ones better than that one" debate, just trying to get some decent info for others to make an informed decision.

Thanks, Dan

Cool, thanks. I've been interested in understanding why the R3 does seem to be preferred among the desert racing community.

They all work well and offer great protection. I'll try and stay out of the debate as well as I truly believe that a significant part of it is just based on what the driver is comfortable with.

I have an R3. Not exactly the most comfortable thing when you ride a 1000 miles in a car, but it will save your ass in a wreck...

http://www.pciraceradios.com/product_images/1401hr.jpg

i cant find a pic of the front any one have one by chance??


i was looking at the Hutchens Hybrid and the Hybrid X

Here's some info on the R3 vs. Hans I found.

That's interesting. It shows HANS results with Nylon nets, but doesn't show R3 results with Nylon nets. Clearly Nylon stretches and in this case Kevlar is better.

Also, there is reference to the 4000N SFI limit, but it's used in side-impact results and the SFI doesn't test for side impact, only straignt frontal and 30 degree angular frontal.

Another disturbing thing I noticed in their own literature (unless I'm missing something) is it seems that in the side impact results they are reporting, they used seat bolsters with the R3 in testing, but not in what they show as the competitions photos.

Linky:http://www.safedrives.com/prodimages/lfttech/R3_Sled_Test.pdf

Something to me that's important to note is that the SFI doesn't release the results of testing, only which devices meet standard. So each manufacturer that does release results will obviously want to present information that makes their product look better.

For example, here's the information released from HANS (in this graph, lower is better):

http://hansdevice.com/core/media/media.nl?id=515&c=337809&h=129cb76bdbb3e4d1fd13


I found a wiki site that seems to me to be the best neutral source of information that I've seen. I'm happy to post the link if Lance says it's ok, but here is their summary:

Summary:

Based on the evidence I've seen (most of that is in this article) then this is what I conclude.

Read and understand the different test specifications and select the best device for your car and form of racing.

Get a head and neck restraint whatever racing you are doing.

Get a net, or two if your car supports them. They are cheap, and help if you have a head and neck restraint or not.

Get a decent seat. Listen to the experts. The seat and nets are the only things that can help you in a side impact.

Check what your sanctioning body specifies for performance standards.


Again, I'm honestly trying to stay neutral on the "which is better" debate. Just really wanting to help present an objective view of information for everybody to make their own decisions from.

Also, for reference, the FIA has standards on Head and Neck restraints as well, but I've not referenced them as they specify exclusive use of the HANS (Hubbard/Downing design) device and the SFI does not.

Hope this helps.

Also, I will say that I do like how the R3 device attaches to the body. I think they both rely on the seat belts to help secure the device (admittedly, the HANS does more than the R3), but if you look at each device closely, the actual tethers and how they attach to the device and to the helmet, look very similar.

My own conclusion is they are both good devices, but as stated above, I would rely much more on a good seat (with bolsters) and a good net to help provide primary protection in side impacts.

.... and one more thing, I'm also looking into becoming a dealer for LFT Technologies Inc, (the manufacturer of the R3 device). No bias here... any device is better than nothing.

How does the R3 rely on the seat belts?

How does the R3 rely on the seat belts?

Probably not the best choice of words on my part since their documentation says "Because the restraint is strapped to the user, the restraint does not rely on the seat belts".

Perhaps a better choice of words would be to say it's my opinion that the restraint does seem to benefit from the shoulder belts riding over the top and helping to provide a more secure anchor to the driver's torso and the restraint device.

I guess what I'm trying to better understand is the benefit or advantage of this particular design (the way it straps to your body and does not rely on the seat belts). The R3 seems to be more popular based on a side impact protection advantage and I'm just trying to understand how this device provides better protection in that scenario.

Frankly, I'm not sure how much it really matters though since if there were to be a 70G impact without the belts securing the driver and R3 device in place, there would be much bigger problems going on.

Also, looking again at the statement: "Because the restraint is strapped to the user, the restraint does not rely on the seat belts".

What is it really saying? Why is that better and how would you test that?


Really not trying to debate anything, just trying to understand.

It sounds like DocRocks has this deal nailed, but a couple of points I didn't see mentioned.
If your seat belts are loose, the HANS wont be as effective. If you're in a suspension seat and constantly tighten your belts, an R3 may be the best choice.

That said, if your belts come loose, it's possible they are mounted wrong.
If your belts pull don on your shoulders, they could be mounted to low in relationship to the top of your shoulders, or your sub strap is loose.

Also HANS just released a tether that slides in the rear mounts that allow you to move your head left to right without restriction. This almost eliminates the concern taht you can't look left to right. The tether can be retrofitted to current models.



Jeff
_________________________
UPR Racing Supply (http://www.upr.com)
Desert Rat Off Road Centers (http://www.desertrat.com)
Sparco Racing (http://www.sparcoracing.com)
Pro Desert Racing (http://www.prodesertracing.com)

There's an interesting article in the Jan 2008 issue of Road & Track titled, "The Evolution of Safety Technology in Motor Racing."

In it they talk a bit about restraints - and, FWIW, it seems to me they are suggesting the HANS became mandatory in NASCAR in 2005.

what do you guys use??
pros and cons?


R3

Why doesn't anyone use the Hutchins or D-cell??
I am going to get something for the KOH race. I do not trust the neck roll.
I was staying away fromt he Hans, due to the fact that we dont run seat side bolsters. I feel I have a much greater chance of rolling versus a head-on. Of course I want something that takes care of both.

they started making the r3 in a cheaper version, like 600 or so. same design different material



try parker pumper