I just picked up a W200 full-time front D44. It's amazing, but what the hell am I supposed to do for trail spares? I never see these things in the J-Yards.

:beer:

--JoshC

the inner shafts are the same as the 80 and newer part time shafts so get a couple of the short sides for spares.. they are usually the ones that break..

Short side inners. Okay. Funny it's not the long side inners? What size tires do you run and what's the approx weight of your rig?

Speaking of breaking... Has any body broken the 1.5" 35 spline outer?:eek: :skull:

from what i understand those break just like the smaller 1/2 ton ones.. just not quite as bad.. and yeah they are hard to get parts for.. my advice, either put on chevy or newer dodge (81-84) knuckle outs.. or sell it and get a better one.. when they break on the trail, they are a real PITA. And i may be willing to buy yours if you ever do decide to sell it.. as an intern for my dana 60.. whcih will take awhile...

Garrett

Morgan Hill. My wife is from Morgan hill and I'm from Gilroy. Highschool class of 88 for her and 89 for me.

Do you have any other good leads on 60's?:D :D :D

www.mopartruckparts.com has one last time i checked. alittle high at $1350, but it has the right gears, and is in pretty darn good condition,a nd all ready to roll. Other than that, i have no clue. I am just keeping my eyes open, but even so, it isnt a big priority for me right now.. figuring it is just a wheeling truck, and I have a 96, which is a backup wheeler, and daily driver. so if i do break.. oh well..

Garrett

Never heard of anyone breaking those outers. I'm planning to put CTM's in mine with 4340 inners, so called Jack Graef and talked to him a little about those outers. His suggestion, if one wanted alloy outers, was to make a separate yoke and double-splined shaft like Sandy Cone uses, then TIG them together. Usually a 1541 axle fails at the shaft or splines, but with 1.5" and 35 splines this is unlikely, so the yoke ears are the principal concern; usually these are broken after the joint fails, but he's seen a few get egged-out on Moser shafts that had his joints in them.

He also hinted that you'd have to beat on the stock outers damn hard to break one, and it seemed like he thought this wasn't a probable mode of failure; ie. you'd probably be breaking lots of other stuff - repeatedly - before one of those. I'll just run mine, carry a spare or two, and see. I can find them in the yards here but it's becoming harder to find someone who won't try to make you buy the whole axle.

Inner shafts usually fail on the short side, because they act like a torsion bar under load and the long side can twist further.

My truck weighs 6100 :eek: and could really use a 60, but I haven't hit the lottery yet, so I keep running my 44-30F. Judging by the amount of wheeling I've got in this year, it'll last forever. :rolleyes:

Ok, the time i saw one break (ok, it was a buddy of mine who saw it break) it was the first time out on a jeep rockcrawler. The problem is, when the wheel bearings fail, the whole wheel falls off, and because it is a sealed assembily, it gets to be a PITA... But that is just my observations.. I agree that the ones on my 96 ram (slightly different but similar design) arent gonna break with all my wheeling i do on that truck :rolleyes: . In 20k miles i have used 4wd 4 times.. but then i have only owned the truck for a year.. so who knows.

Garrett

are you still worried about that 44:eek: just find some spare shafts and run it, or find newer knuckles and convert to the 84 ish kind:smokin:

PW, someone has been feeding you a load. There is no way for the wheel to "fall off" if a bearing fails. Those wheelbearings are pressed onto the hub behind the bearing retainer, which is then bolted to the knuckle. The hole in the bearing retainer is smaller than the inner race of the wheelbearing; the retainer seals on the hub. In order for the wheel to "fall off" either the entire bearing retainer failed (unlikely - it's a pretty stout part) or they didn't bother to bolt it to the knuckle. In either case it's hard to blame the bearing. There are six bolts that secure the bearing retainer to the hub; they are 3/8-24 with 12-point flanged heads, and must be installed/removed through that offset hole in the hub/rotor.

It IS NOT sealed; they have a grease zerk on the outer edge of the bearing retainer, near the bolts.

Originally posted by PW
Ok, the time i saw one break (ok, it was a buddy of mine who saw it break) it was the first time out on a jeep rockcrawler. The problem is, when the wheel bearings fail, the whole wheel falls off, and because it is a sealed assembily, it gets to be a PITA... But that is just my observations.. I agree that the ones on my 96 ram (slightly different but similar design) arent gonna break with all my wheeling i do on that truck :rolleyes: . In 20k miles i have used 4wd 4 times.. but then i have only owned the truck for a year.. so who knows.

Garrett

There is that "the whole wheel falls off" thing. I don't get it. Looking at the entire assembly, it's practically a full floating design. I can't see how the wheel could possible fall off. Even if a bearing fails.

Thanks Lloyd. I just read your post.n I can't beleive how much shit I get about this front-end. And it looks better and better. I think people are just afraid of different stuff. Sheeple! Get a 60 blah blah blah..

I've heard a lot of nonsense about those axles also - and most of it is pure horse shit. Here's another thread with more info: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44366 I've had no trouble with this axle so far and I'll run it as long as possible. And you're right, it is a full-floater; the bearing seats in the knuckle, is pressed onto the hub, and the axleshaft bears no weight.

IMO most of the crap about these axles originate from sources like PW's friend's acquaintance, who most likely tore the thing apart drunk and didn't know WTF they were doing in reassembly (where did those bolts come from?) :shaking: I don't think they're any weaker than any other 44, and the stub shafts are clearly superior.

Glad to see that someone else has one.

I have been reading that post over and over for a couple of weeks now. Very helpful. Thanks

So know I'm looking for spares. Can anybody hook me up? Point me in the right direction?

Thanks

Originally posted by JoshC
So know I'm looking for spares. Can anybody hook me up? Point me in the right direction?

Thanks

I know where there's a pile of them and would be happy to check for you and/or give you their contact info - if you don't mind the shipping from NM. Just let me know what length the inners are (end of shaft to center of ujoint bore). There were at least three different offsets. The place I know that has 'em sells the inner and outer shafts together, $85/side. Do you know what year the axle is, out of curiosity? Unfortunately year and BOM won't help me, because Dana's online database doesn't go that far back, and I haven't been able to find that in printed form either. I'm pretty sure that there's an off-the-shelf combination of Warn inners that will work in my '77 - will know in a week or two when I've got the engine reassembled and the PS box on for the crossover conversion. ;)

Originally posted by Lloyd


I know where there's a pile of them and would be happy to check for you and/or give you their contact info - if you don't mind the shipping from NM. Just let me know what length the inners are (end of shaft to center of ujoint bore). There were at least three different offsets. The place I know that has 'em sells the inner and outer shafts together, $85/side. Do you know what year the axle is, out of curiosity? Unfortunately year and BOM won't help me, because Dana's online database doesn't go that far back, and I haven't been able to find that in printed form either. I'm pretty sure that there's an off-the-shelf combination of Warn inners that will work in my '77 - will know in a week or two when I've got the engine reassembled and the PS box on for the crossover conversion. ;)

I'll go ahead and measure. I don't remember what year the W200 was.

$85 bucks a side is a bit pricy for me. I got the entire axle from my local yard for a buck fifty! Complete! I'll have to keep my eye out. Are the axles themselves the same on 6 and 8 lug?

I just picked up my knuckles from the machine shop last week and bolted on the High-steer arms a couple of days ago! I'll have to post a few pics.

:beer: --JoshC

Here in the Land of Entrapment, the cost of a solid front drive axle has gone through the roof in the last few years. A complete Chevy D44 costs $850 from El Mexicano. A fulltime Dodge D44 sells at Amigo's for $650. No one wants to disassemble an axle anymore - just sell them complete; and the parts of those that have been pulled apart... well like $85 a side for shafts, $75 for a set of 19-spline external lockouts, etc. A Chevy D60 costs $1850 at South Coors Truck - and they've got the only one in the state, to the best of my knowledge. This is why I'll be going to 4340 inners and CTM's - can't afford not to!

I don't believe there were any fulltime 6-lug Dodge axles. 5-lug, yes - and for a given axle (ie year) the inners are the same between 5 and 8 lug, but there were several different width/offset axles in the fulltime era, and those are not all the same. Curiously, at least one side of my axle looks like it might run a 10-bolt inner; so maybe a shaft from a 6-lug axle IS the same! :p

By all means, please post pics!

I finished machining my arms months ago, and they've been waiting - trying to get the house closer to completion before tearing into the truck. Broke an exhaust manifold stud last weekend, and had to pull the head to get it out; with the heads off, might as well port & polish, and stuff in that new cam. Now that the radiator's out of the way, it makes it easy to reinforce the frame for the PS box. I want to do the steering before the lift (new springs and shocks cluttering up the garage too) so I know that the tie rod and drag link won't interfere under full compression. It's all coming together. :)

Originally posted by Lloyd


, but there were several different width/offset axles in the fulltime era, and those are not all the same

Wrongo bucko.. All Dodge axles from 75 to at least 86 use the same inner axle shafts(within the same axle series IE all D44's are the same inners) .. I used the long side inner axle from a 76 in one of my 86 Dodges to get rid of the CAD.. and the chevy will not work in the 75 and later although it is the same as the 74 and earlier..

Y'know, I asked this question five months ago - http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32656
so this is wrong?

So we can just go to a junkyard and buy any 44 axle that has the short 35-spline outers and threads for the BFN?

Thanks for straightening this out!

so it is sounding like i wont be waisting my money by machining my d44.. while it is 5 on 4.5.. i have locking hubs.. i just feel like i am goint to break it too quick, and it will be $$$ down the drain on that steering arm.. plus all my work. I hear i can swap to 8 lug easy.. just bolt on the outers so i can have 8 lug.. right now i think the axle is fine.. i have 35" mtr's, 3.55 gears, and a 203.. but I will have a 203/203/205 and 38.5's later.. so it will break.. or so i think. (727 is forgiving). Well.. hopefully when i do my front spring swap tomorrow, it wont cause my steering to be TOO bad

Originally posted by Hick
so it is sounding like i wont be waisting my money by machining my d44.. while it is 5 on 4.5.. i have locking hubs.. i just feel like i am goint to break it too quick, and it will be $$$ down the drain on that steering arm.. plus all my work. I hear i can swap to 8 lug easy.. just bolt on the outers so i can have 8 lug.. right now i think the axle is fine.. i have 35" mtr's, 3.55 gears, and a 203.. but I will have a 203/203/205 and 38.5's later.. so it will break.. or so i think. (727 is forgiving). Well.. hopefully when i do my front spring swap tomorrow, it wont cause my steering to be TOO bad

Depends how you drive. I had a half ton 44 in my Scout with 38.5 SX's and it was fine. Just don't hit the stupid pedal too much when the steering is turned.

Lloyd,
My knuckles were machined, arms installes with studs from parts mike, and the tie-rod and d-link should be here on Thursday. 1 ton steering! I'm sure I'll be giddy as a school girl and bolt it all up that evening after work. I'll post pics the next day. The entire steering linkage was only 299!

$299 for the linkage is outstanding! Don't know what I'll have in mine; the TRE's were $80/4 at AutoZone (ES2026 and 7's) and I got solid round stock for the rod and link; doing all the machine work myself, and if I were being paid to make these parts they'd be worth a lot more than that - but this does allow me to get the Ackermann angle right on the arms for my gargantuan wheelbase. Got grade-8 bolts and turned the heads down; they're still sitting on the lathe waiting to get threaded. I'm going from manual fore-aft to power crossover and wasn't sure which arm would work best, so I got three; one 5-1/2" center to center stock arm from a Dodge van, another 5-1/2" with a 2-1/2" drop (Skyjacker?) and one 7-1/2" flat Ford arm - all same Saginaw spline. After I figure out which one I like I'll return the other two to the yard.

I gotta get you some pics.

299 steering DOM linkage w/ 7/8" TRE's Bent and Twisted
100 Used steering arms BenW
39 OME GM Studs Parts Mike
120 Machined/Drilled/Tapped knuckles Local machine shop

:D 1

2

I see you went with the inverted-T. It looks like with the short, dropped pitman arm I'll have enough room to run the draglink and tierod separately; I'd drilled and reamed two holes for TRE's in each steering arm. Mine are mounted, just waiting for the tubing to show up so I can tap and install the links. Looks good; I'll try to get pics of mine up also. Thanks!

Originally posted by hy_desert_4wheeler


Wrongo bucko.. All Dodge axles from 75 to at least 86 use the same inner axle shafts(within the same axle series IE all D44's are the same inners) .. I used the long side inner axle from a 76 in one of my 86 Dodges to get rid of the CAD.. and the chevy will not work in the 75 and later although it is the same as the 74 and earlier..

Dana lists part # 28478-3x for a pass. side '79 axle, 28478-4x driver's side. For '80-84 they give 660559-3 right and 660559-4 left. No records earlier than '79 on their web site, and the local dealer is useless. I don't know what the differences are, except that the part numbers are in fact different. My '77 axles measure about 36.51 on the long side and 16.31 on the short side. This really blows because the longest 4340 blank that Warn makes is 36-1/8"

Originally posted by Lloyd
This really blows because the longest 4340 blank that Warn makes is 36-1/8"

Dutchman is the same at 36 1/8". I can't find lengths for Moser.

Moser will go to 40" and makes them the only choice for aftermarket shafts for these axles.
edit: at least for the long side.